Hi Mayo.

Thanks for your response. Sounds like you have an excellent T. While I'm not a victim of sexual or physical abuse, I am a victim of having been emotionally starved by my family. I, too, am afraid of myself and terrified of rejection.

The more I think about this, the more I'm starting to really feel that what happens between us and our T is the point upon which success or failure depends. Relative to when I started, I've opened myself up a ton to my T, but I still don't feel him as a real person, which tells me that the wall is still in place.

All my reading on and thinking about anxiety and depression and the unconscious and the ego and the self, etc, etc...I wonder if I'm missing the point, and I think I'm gonna continue to suffer until that wall comes down.

Russ

One thing that I have recently learned is that aquired knowledge is just that; it does not sink in to the parts where we need to feel stuff to change (the limbic brain parts- I guess)

Also- I recently discovered that my T is a substitute for me to work out relationships in my life- past and present. He allows me to practice through him. (I think you said something to that affect as well)

Too bad we can't shorten this process with head knowledge, but it just doesn't work that way.

quote:

Originally posted by Mayo:
One thing that I have recently learned is that aquired knowledge is just that; it does not sink in to the parts where we need to feel stuff to change (the limbic brain parts- I guess)

Also- I recently discovered that my T is a substitute for me to work out relationships in my life- past and present. He allows me to practice through him. (I think you said something to that affect as well)

Too bad we can't shorten this process with head knowledge, but it just doesn't work that way.

You hit the nail on the head. I think my limbic system is saying, "dude, you're doing it wrong, which is why you feel like hell right now."

quote:

I think my limbic system is saying, "dude, you're doing it wrong, which is why you feel like hell right now."

Ditto!

MTF

Today- the Godly Spiritual side of me is saying-

quote:

"dude, you're doing it wrong, which is why you feel like hell right now."

Hi UV,

Thanks for the awesome response. I think you're totally right that therapy is an art, and there's very little that's black and white about it. It is totally individual, and it's great that your T understands that adaptability is critical. The more I think about it, the more I realize that I'm not entirely sure just what flavor of therapy would be best for me. Maybe I won't know until years down the road.

My T isn't the 'blank slate' type by any stretch. I mean, he doesn't self-disclose or make any part of his life or experience part of the therapy, but he's also totally engaged and it's all about conversation. In fact, it's all about me and him, which is the thing that freaks me out. I just want him to "fix" me so I can say, "hey, it's been great. Thanks for fixing my raging psychological problems. Gotta go!" But he's saying it doesn't work that way. I don't like this.

But I would HATE having a classical, psychoanalytical 'blank slate' T who just took notes and never talked and was never engaged. Take one of those, add being a dismissive, non-feeling a-hole and you got my father. Yeah, I'm all set with that.

quote:

I always remember you being so pleasant when you were a little girl--you played by yourself for hours quietly

Interesting. Obviously, children sometimes play by themselves, but that doesn't mean they don't want to play with other people, too, especially their parents. Is the assumption that if children want to play with someone they'll ask, otherwise leave them alone? I don't know.

I recently asked my mom what I did all day with her before I went to pre-school and kindergarten. She said, "you would ride on your rocking horse while listening to music, and come on errands with me." I was kind of like, "ok. anything else?" I have pictures of us at the zoo once, but I can't remember playing with my mother. In fact - and I wrote about this before here - I have a memory of my being about 6 and being very upset that I had no one to play trucks with. My mother said, "well, I'll play with you." I remember it feeling very un-natural and un-satisfying and awkward, as if I wanted to say, "I don't want you, I want a friend." At the same time, I had this very sad feeling because I knew my mother was trying her best to play with me, but we just couldn't connect. It's a very, very sad memory for me.

quote:

Overall, when you think about it all, it makes sense to custom design the frame rather than have a concrete set of rules.

Perfectly stated. Thanks for your thoughts!

Russ

quote:

So for people with high anxiety (fear), perhaps more self-disclosure is necessary.

yea- UV that was great. I am one with rather high anxiety, and some self disclosure allows me to trust more, so very important for growth..

Great thread Russ

Hi UV... researchers have found that people who suffer from abuse and complex PTSD do much better with Ts that self-disclose to a certain point. This is because safety is of the utmost importance to complex PTSD survivors and they cannot feel safe if they know nothing about the T they need to confide in and revisit some scary and painful stuff with. The blank-slate approach does not work well with this patient population.

I know a lot about my T, some was self-disclosure, some from my own observations. He also treats my son. And so, knowing what I do helped me to feel safe and to trust him. I needed to establish those two things before I could really start to do the hard therapy work with him.

Perhaps your T knows this and that's why he made himself more transparent to you. He sounds like a really good T.

TN

UV

[QUOTE] Later I've come to realize that my Ts self-disclosure and adaptability is one of his very positive traits that has allowed our therapy to unfold beautifully [QUOTE]

Indeed, I so agree with all you said there. I know it goes against a certain model, but for me it has been invaluable as a way of building trust to have an amount of self-disclosure. DF is so right in talking about the difficulty of the 'blank slate'. Uuurrrghhhh, it's such a hard one. at the start I gave so little away, because I think my T did likewise. My abuser gave very little away in emotion and I think she was inadvertently triggering me in her, always very professional but totally blank canvas, behaviour. It took time, but now we have a different relationship whereby I can check out her personal opinion and sometimes experiences if I need to as a way of teaching me now a different perspective from my own damaged experiences. And it works very well. She has never given me any of her issues in doing so and I would tell her if she ever did. And yes, the same went with touch issues, only by receiving safe touch did I truly learn that she wasn't going to hurt me and that I could be comforted and didn't always have to fend for myself.

I know evry therapy situation is different and different approaches have to happen with different people, we are all individual and there is no right or wrong way is there? (ok a few wrong ways that we know of on this forum excepting....!!)

starfish

quote:

It took time, but now we have a different relationship whereby I can check out her personal opinion and sometimes experiences if I need to as a way of teaching me now a different perspective from my own damaged experiences. And it works very well. She has never given me any of her issues in doing so and I would tell her if she ever did.

SF, this sounds like me and my T too. She is very open about her opinions and experiences when it is relevant and helpful to my therapy. It really is a blessing to have a T who knows the "art" of appropriate disclosure, isn't it? I'm so glad you have a T you can trust and feel safe with.

SG

SG

quote:

It really is a blessing to have a T who knows the "art" of appropriate disclosure, isn't it?

Indeed, but it's taken time, that's why I have so much admiration for people who have to start again with a new T. I don't know if I could be so strong and patient as all you guys are who are doing that, but perhaps I might be better at expressing my needs sooner if I had to now.

Thanks for your affirmation SG , I still feel a bit wobbly about the difficult work I did with her recently, but I know it is the way forward. Still all feels quite 'real' still. Waitnig for the intensity of the memories to fade...

starfish

Starfish, I'm so sorry you are still so wobbly. Have you seen your T yet? I hope she will help you to feel safer, soon.
And we are here to support you and thinking of you...please let us know how it is going from day-to-day, if you feel safe enough to do so.

Sorry I don't have much to say about the frame in therapy...

Hug from your feather-faced-friend, little starfish!

BB

Thanks BB for asking and suggesting I post, I find it difficult to know what to say when it's about me and it's tough...

Have seen her again and looked at strategies to get through this time, but feel pretty rubbish about me and my ability to do this work. She says I'm being hard on myself and that I am making progress but it is just going to take time because of all that happened. I don't want to give up, I can't go back now I know, I just can't deal with the reality very well.

Anybody felt similar????????

starfish

quote:

I don't want to give up, I can't go back now I know, I just can't deal with the reality very well.

Anybody felt similar????????

((((starfish))))

Oh yes. You know, when I finally got bad enough with PTSD symptoms that I went back to therapy, I knew that I was going to be opening Pandora's box. What I didn't realize was that once it is opened that it would be impossible to close it back up and go back to life as I knew it before therapy. I don't want to go back, but yet the place that I'm in (with the knowledge, the pain, the feelings) is so hard to be in that I feel like I need to go somewhere...anywhere where I can get away from it all. There is no such place. I find that dealing with all of this makes dealing with the rest of my life so much harder. It is all consuming some days and takes so much energy to stay ahead of it all and not be swallowed up. My T always says that I can try to "take a break" from the intensity, but I always say that is so hard because I can't un-remember something. Ya know? It is still there and follows me around like my shadow all day long and haunts me like a nightmare all night long.

Unfortunately, the only way to get through it is to continue to work with your T and to take it slowly. My T always says, "the slower we go the faster we'll get there" because if you go too fast then it becomes intolerably uncomfortable and can really upset daily life. It's a fine balance between working on it and being a little uncomfortable, but still moving forward and being able to continue on with daily life.

I'm sorry it is so hard. ((((hugs))))

quote:

"the slower we go the faster we'll get there" because if you go too fast then it becomes intolerably uncomfortable and can really upset daily life. It's a fine balance between working on it and being a little uncomfortable, but still moving forward and being able to continue on with daily life.

That has been my experience as well. Starfish- I hope your situation improves.

I hear you about pandora's box. I have found that the longer I live with the knowledge and the more I process it, the weight of it becomes lighter, It becomes less traumatic-not in how awful the circumstances were, but in how strong my emotions are about them, does that make sense?

Hugs Starfish