Lamplighter,

I was just thinking about starting a new thread about a book, but maybe I will just follow yours.

I would recommend two books that were very helpful and explained what the therapy actually is.
One is Michael Kahn's "Between Therapist and Client. The New Relationship". It was eyeopener for me. I understood what is it about and that the therapist is someone who really cares.

The second one is Irvin Yalom "The Gift of Therapy". It is mostly for therapists but the author discloses his personal feelings and reflection and you can imagine what it must be like to be in therapists shoes. Funny thing, my T once asked me the exact same question as in one of the chapters of Yalom`s book. I found it quite funny, but most of all very thoughtfull. I'm glad that my T kind of chose Yalom to be his menthor, because I loved every single thing I read in his books. He is brilliant writer and therapist.

I've just finished reading 'The Gift of Therapy' and thought it was a great book, really easy to read to Just waiting for payday so i can get 'In Session'

Hev

MacLove gave a great list of books. I have Momma and the Meaning of Life, but I haven't started it yet. Irvin Yalom is such a great author and therapist...it's fascinating to read the stuff he writes. Love's Executioner was informative and entertaining, but I do think that The Gift of Therapy was really helpful in providing experiences that we all (clients in therapy) can relate to. It was super interesting.

I just started it, but Confessions of a Former Child by Daniel Tomasulo is funny and well-written. He is a therapist, and the book is about both his life growing up and his life as a therapist. It's more of a book meant to entertain rather than to inform, but I like it. Drama of the Gifted Child was also good...I highlighted a whole lot in it.

Just as a starting point, I highly suggest beginning with Irvin Yalom's books that everyone has mentioned. Best of luck, LL. I can only speak from my experience, but I think that reading will be a great way for you to get through this limbo period before you really start with the new T. Getting new perspectives is always so valuable.

Big hugs.

This is great! After finishing "In Session" and "A General Theory of Love" I've been looking and wondering about what books to read next...now I know...great thread! mlc

haven't read any of these therapy books, but will....i have always (until this year) thought I could fix ME...har har!!

nathaniel brandon (once intertwined with ayn rand) is VERY good on self esteem, reading 'SIX PILLARS OF SELF ESTEEM' and the chapter i am in now deals with the child selves in therapy...so a taste of a therapy book. very good stuff, with anything he writes. he is into sentance completion, but not pa, does much for my current mood. very into efficacy (your own self power). idk, truly find him helpful, but reallly want to dive into some of these others.

another i have mentioned often is 'Necessary losses' by Voirst...great on reality vs. fantasy in how our childhood was, accepting it, how our marriage is, how our children are different in ways than we expected...just for me, in dealling with reality, versus the fantasy wishful thinking (childlike) i seem to have about everything...

another,both these last two rec'd by psychiatrist to me...'Boundaries' by Cloud and Townsend. for those of us who grew up in boundary-less worlds, co-dependency, give more (to signifiant others, be it parents or spouse) than receive, feel their worth is only in what they give and thoses strings of giving are eventually (me and parents) the only tie that hold the relationship and the great fear of NOT giving (me as a child) as that is the only thing that kept the relationship from ending...

great thread topic, Lamplighter!!

The Dance of Anger by Harriet Lerner, also available as an audiobook, is really good.

Hey great stuff guys, thanks for the references. I have been noting down titles and adding them to my Amazon basket - will have to be a bit selective I think, the total is getting alarmingly high!

There’s one book I know I’d like to read, that’s also been mentioned on forum in other threads - In Session. But it’s only available in UK at ridiculously inflated prices. Anyone in UK know where it can be had for a reasonable price?

I see also The Gift of Therapy is only available at an obscene price too grrr. Suppose I should try the library, but books like this I like to keep for reference, especially as I do a lot of underlining and note making in the margins!

Anyway I hope this thread can stand as a general reference for everybody - I think it’s so useful to be able to look up a collection of posts like this when you’re looking for something relevant.

Trying to think of a book that helped me - probably the two books by Anne Faraday, Dream Power and The Dream Game - they’re about dream interpretation but it was the connections to feelings and their importance which the author makes which set me on the road to looking inside my own head for answers and resolutions. They’re a bit dated now, but still interesting.

LL

LL,

I don't know if it applies over there, but the Gift of Therapy is available in digital version and if you get the free Kindle for PC then you can read it online. I know it isn't the same as the paper version, but just a thought.

I was just going to mention the Kindle for your computer. I actually don't have a paper copy of The Gift of Therapy - I have it on the Kindle program on my computer. Most everything else I have in text. It is a little different reading it this way, but it works fine for me.

Here's my list minus a lot of my favorites already mentioned earlier in the thread.

I know that no one here will be surprised by my first book.

A General Theory of Love by Thomas Lewis et al A wonderful lyrical book that still manges to explain basic neurobiology, and attachment theory and why love is at the center of being human. This book helped me immensely to understand that I could heal and that I needed to be dependent on my T for awhile in order to heal. I cannot recommend this enough. My T actually read this at my recommendation and then said to me "S#$%, that's another book I don't get to write."

The Wounded Heart by Dan Allender This is wonderful book on healing from Childhood incest that I read twice while recovering memories. It is however, written from Christian worldview for those of you who have other beliefs in case that would make you uncomfortable. Although I believe there's still a lot of valuable stuff in here even if you don't agree with the beliefs. Dan Allender also wrote "The Healing Path" which I also found helpful.

Boundaries by Drs. Cloud and Townsend This book is a really lucid, clear explanation of healthy boundaries and how they work. I found it indespensible since they had never been modeled for me. This book is also written from a Christian viewpoint but the authors also base the principles on their clinical practices. I would highly recommend this for anyone struggling with understanding boundaries. They have a companion book called Boundaries in Marriage that my husband and I both read and found extremely helpful.

Parenting from the Inside Out by Dan Seigel and Mary Hartzell This is a book my T recommended when I asked him for a layman's book on attachment theory. Even though it's a parenting book (and I wish I had read it much earlier) it's also an excellent explanation of attachment theory and human development. The best part is that it's written for laymen but with highlighted, easy to skip sections that go into the science of neurobiology for those listed. Dan Seigel is a leading researcher, practioner, and author of Interpersonal Neurobiology. He's written a number of book which address Mindfulness but they're VERY tough going, I'm still trying to make it through A Mindful Brain. But this book was the one that allowed me to see what I struggled with as development gone awry that could be repaired instead of some inate pathology that made me damaged goods.

Kitchen Table Wisdom by Rachel Naomi Remen Another book recommended by my T that was life-changing for me. The author is a counselor for patients with cancer, some of whom are terminal. The book is a re-telling of stories, both hers and her patients and is incredibly powerful and moving conveying truths that are so hard to articulate but somehow manages to do so. My poor T, after I read this book I actually came to a session with a copy of it with like 15 yellow stickies in it.

Attachment in Psychotherapy by David Wallin Read this one because my T was reading it and I ran across it while looking for more info on attachment. Very heavy going at times because this is a book written for therapists, it is incredibly valuable though for insight into understanding how attachment injuries affect us and what you need to heal from them. I believe this book should be required reading for every therapist.

I have a few more but I have to track down the titles, but this is probably enough to get started.

Great idea for a thread!!

AG

Another good one, but it is long is

Becoming Attached

AG: I've had Parenting From the Inside Out for forever and still haven't read it. STRM runs off to read now......

I also have A General Theory of Love, but am feeling a bit dense as even though I have a science and psych background I'm having trouble following it.

Oh dear, sorry STRM. At the risk of sounding very vain, my T has told me that I am "psychologically minded" and have an aptitude for understanding this stuff so General Theory of Love may not be all that easy. I am, admittedly, fascinated by neurobiology and I was obsessed by trying to understand how my T was feeling so I was highly motivated. So ignore my saying it was an easy read; you are in no way dense and I certainly didn't mean to make you feel that way.

Keep them coming guys, this is great!

STRM and Kashley thanks for pointing me in the direction of online books - any access to these books is useful.

But have to shamefacedly admit to being a Luddite when it comes to computers - what’s a kindle??? Explanations in words of one syllable or less please

LL

Dear LL,

A "kindle" is an electronic device onto which you can download and read the text of a book, I believe (I don't have one but I've been seeing the ads for them for a while).

Now it's my turn. What, exactly, is a "Luddite"??

I agree with LL - keep 'em coming. You all are so well-read and generous with the recommendations that I have nothing to add.

SG

quote:

Originally posted by Attachment Girl:
Oh dear, sorry STRM. At the risk of sounding very vain, my T has told me that I am "psychologically minded" and have an aptitude for understanding this stuff so General Theory of Love may not be all that easy. I am, admittedly, fascinated by neurobiology and I was obsessed by trying to understand how my T was feeling so I was highly motivated. So ignore my saying it was an easy read; you are in no way dense and I certainly didn't mean to make you feel that way.

Oh no AG! You didn't make me feel dense, I've just been feeling dense every time I pick it up and try to read it. It could very well be the brain scramble that I'm in right now. I also wonder if it matters who is more up front. Perhaps those that keep trying to read it aren't the ones with the science and psych background? I typically can understand just about anything, the more complicated the better. I can sit and read medical books and journals all day and have no problems, so I think it is either the wrong parts are trying to read it or I'm just too fried right now to concentrate.

Lol SG you’ve called me on that one! Here’s a link to Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luddite

giving the background of the term Luddite - it’s the modern usage definition that I’m using the word here -

In modern usage, "Luddite" is a term describing those opposed to industrialization, automation, computerization or new technologies in general.[1]

for instance, the fact that to operate something as simple(?) as a DVD player you need to wade through a squillion pages of user-UNfriendly instruction manual (whatever happened to just using the on/off switch!) Hell I even have three yes THREE separate instruction books for my dishwasher. Needless to say I stick to one programme and moan like hell everytime something goes wrong.

Basically I have a mental block when it comes to understanding modern technology

Anyway thanks for the Kindle link - I now understand what it is - the free for PC programme sounds ok but the books I want for some reason aren’t available online in UK anyway grrr. Oh and I realized my mistake too - the Gift of Therapy is available reasonably cheaply, it’s the other Yalom book Existential Pyschotherapy that’s ridiculously pricey. And I still can’t find In Session anywhere for less than £30 (that’s about $45).

Still thanks to you guys I do have a pretty long list of books I can get so am looking forward to a bit of light reading soon.

LL

p.s. let's see if I can stop being a Luddite and hope that the link I've posted actually works.

p.p.s rats it didn't work. Try again.

STRM that would be a good idea and I think we had a few of those threads going on In Session and General Theory of Love at one time. I have read Gift of Therapy a few times over. I find so many good nuggets of information there. I love Yalom and have read most of his books.

That's a great idea, STRM! Count me in!

Actually a few of the books mentioned already have threads started, just not posted to for a while.

"A General Theory of Love" Book Discussion

New Book Discussion: The Mindful Path

New Book Discussion: The Drama of the Gifted Child by Alice Miller

New Book Discussion: "In Session - the Bond Between Women and their Therapists"

I loved General Theory of Love and would be happy to read it again. There are certain passages that I've highlighted and read repeatedly because, well, they are beautifully said. I believe AG's word was "lyrical" - that is exactly it! I will actually sometimes read the words out loud simply because I love how they flow together. How's that for cornball? In the beginning of the book, where the concepts they are talking about are relatively basic (like the introduction), the lyrical aspect seemed kind of overdone, using lots of multi-syllabic words when fewer and simpler words would have said the same thing. But that was before I understood "why" they were writing it that way. Part way through the book, it started to make sense within the context of the subject itself, why they were writing it that way...and then I was totally hooked.

I've also read Drama of the Gifted Child and In Session but would love to read them again. Mindful Path looks good, too...I also did some sample reading last night of The Gift of Therapy and Love's Executioner and am already VERY interested in reading more from that author. Also sampled Wallin's Attachment in Psychotherapy...which looks excellent as well.

Now there is only one problem. Where to find the time?

Great thread! Thanks, everybody.

SG

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. This is one of my favorites as well and I've read it more than once and have a ton of sticky notes in it. Right now my T has this book... he never returned it to me. Probably forgot he has it. I know he didn't read it much at all which pained me because it's a fascinating topic. Glad you are getting so much from it and that your T is not threatened by your knowledge of attachment and is willing to discuss it.

TN

"" I also love all the parenting advice it gives. That doesn’t seem to be the intention of the book, but there’s a lot of information on what exactly parents do to raise secure children, and how to raise a secure child, even if you didn’t have a secure attachment growing up."" maclove

i love what you wrote, i, as a parent, worry about this with my kids...passing on this crappy attachment style i learned from my parents. i know i do alot right, (tell them i love them, listen, ask them about their day, etc.) but, even know, i know my 15 year old boy is really wanting a girlfriend, and while i know a part of that is normal, i fear a part of that is insecure attachment. i hate to admit, but, growing up with problems swept under the rug...i know i still do too much sweeping...and i want them to turn to me with their problems.

maclove, curious about that book...is this the kind of thing it discusses? i hate to committ to another book, as i haven't read what i have, but that sounds quite interesting...

jill

I looked up Attachment in Psychotherapy online and found an online preview that showed just about ebverything that I really wanted to read except for one page...so I was just wondering if anyone that has the book could hook me up with p.214...I can't find the book in any stores around me and I am not about to pay $45 for just one page...TIA

Wow!! I just finished yalom's "loves executioner".. Wow, 24 hours is a record for me and a book, but what a great book. Hysterical and soooOoo deep. Kept making notes in the margins of insights I would see that I wanted to develop further. A big thumbs up here! Don't know which of his to read next. This therapy has really turned into sn obsession, I admit it!! Had to post on my iPhone (what a pain!) just to tell yall how much I enjoyed it. I will say, his relationship of religion to magic was not pleasant, but we are all entitled to our opinions...great read!!!! Jill

Hi Jill... I read and enjoyed this book too. In fact, I like Yalom in general. He is a very smart and caring P.

TN

i was such a fan of that that book! Another one of yalom, is my favourite though: dont know the correct english title, something like "Every day a step closer" (???) read it? its beautiful. Great way to learn how differently perspectives T`s and patients have on the very same process. Even the same sessions. Really an eye-opener.

thanks for reminding me about Yalom- when i get some time i`ll have to reread that book!

Frog I think it's Everyday Gets a Little Closer? It was written by Yalom and one of his patients. Two perspectives on the same sessions. I remember reading it but I never finished it because when she was terminating with him it got me so upset to even think about that I returned the book to the library. I was so terrified to think about a long way away termination with my T. Happened a lot sooner than I planned....I'm sure her ending was a lot more positive than mine was.

maclove, i just ordered quite a few of the books you mentioned, the carl rogers, and some of the holistic approaches. just don't know when i will read them all!! and the yalom books.

one thing, alot of these books are available on amazon in the used book area for REALLLY CHEAP PRICES...$4 to $8 for many!

great thread! jill

I've noticed a lot of posts to this thread recently...maybe it is the colder weather driving people back indoors that is leading to more reading. I have The Gift of Therapy but haven't read it yet. But I'm really looking forward to it after all the positive reviews here.

What I have been reading is Attachment in Psychotherapy and I absolutely LOVE it. Like AG said it is quite "heavy" so I'm having to take it slow, but WOW is it good and rich and so full of meaning and things I can identify with, not just in therapy but also in life in general. I'm doing lots of highlighting and making notes in the margins.

One passage in particular about the subject of "intersubjectivity" just keeps going round in my mind, especially with how so many of us just want to be seen and heard right where we are by our T's. Liese - you recently asked me on another thread, how do I know I go to an "attuned" T? This passage is an excellent response to that question. It does a great job of explaining the difference between a T's attuned experience of a patient (intersubjectivity) and not attuned (intrapsychic).

[from the section "Intersubjectivity as a Developmental Achievement"]
"In the terms of Martin Buber's (1923/1970) 'interhuman' philosophy of dialogue, intersubjective relatedness makes for an 'I-Thou' relationship marked by mutuality, dialogue, and the ability to experience others in their own terms. By contrast, intrapsychic relating confines us to an 'I-It' relationship in which mutuality is absent, imposition supersedes negotiation, and preexisting categories dominate our experience of other people."

I bolded the part about experiencing others in their own terms because I think it is so beautifully important. OMG...how badly do we all want that? I've been on the receiving end of both types of relatedness, in and out of therapy, and can identify so well with the characteristics of each. When there is no attunement, I definitely feel like I'm seen as an "it" rather than a "thou". No mutuality is there...I'm not sure what is meant by mutuality but I feel like there is no room for "me", just the T...I feel answers are "imposed" on me, no negotiation is possible...and I feel that the person is trying to fit me into a preexisting category. That is exactly it.

And of course this has me thinking, how well do I experience others as "I-Thou" vs. "I-It"..."I-Thou" takes mindfulness and awareness and a putting aside of myself that I too frequently do not take the time to do...so I'm doing "I-It" more often than not, I'm sure. And I hate that I would ever make anyone else feel like an "It". So I've been way more aware of that in my interactions with others, trying to make the effort to put myself aside and hear others "in their own terms"...the progress is slow, though, so I definitely have my work cut out for me and will be working on it for the rest of my life. And I'm sure I'm guilty of it on this board, too...I'm so sorry for whenever I've responded from that intrapsychic place. But I'm just really grateful to even be aware of it. Ooops...I mean, Thou.

SG

I was trying to keep the last post short but as I was going back to the book and rereading the whole passage, there was more that came before that quote that I want to include here...because it is so good...

"Benjamin (1990/1999) asks, 'How is the meeting of two subjects different from one in which a subject meets an object?' (p. 35). In answering the question, she suggests that the capacity for intersubjective relatedness is an evolving and imperfectly acquired one that, at its zenith, makes possible an encounter between two subjects - two separate but equivalent centers of initiative and experience. This is a meeting of minds in which, as Benjamin puts it, 'you know what I feel, even when I want or feel the opposite of what you want or feel' and 'we can share feelings without my fearing that my feelings are simply your feelings' (p. 40). This sort of intersubjective relatedness exemplifies what Benjamin calls mutual recognition - that is, the ability both to recognize and be recognized by another.

Such recognition is fundamental to an 'intersubjective' as against an 'intrapsychic' experience of others. The first depends on our perceiving the other as a separate subject who primarily exists outside our mental field of operations. The second involves our responding to the other primarily through projection, identification, and other intrapsychic processes - in which case the other is essentially an object in our representational world, to be idealized or devalued, perhaps, but not experienced as a real person." [and this is where the quote in my previous post begins.]

I especially love that sentence "The first depends on our perceiving the other as a separate subject who primarily exists outside our mental field of operations." This to me is the essence of humility...the ability to realize I don't know everything, there is something new to be learned in experiencing this person...it requires the ability to put my "self" aside and experience someone new and learn something new...I have to remain teachable and open to a new experience. It is so easy to fall into just projecting and identifying myself into what I'm seeing and hearing...just seeing and hearing "myself" reflected in the other person. Which isn't necessarily bad...as long as it's not limited to that, because if that's all I hear, then I'm not really knowing the other person at all...I'm missing them entirely.

But as Wallin says earlier...the capacity for this is "evolving and imperfectly acquired"..."evolving and imperfectly acquired"...what I'm aiming for is that zenith, but it is evolving and imperfectly acquired...not only in myself but in others too...man I love this book.

SG

sg, that is some heavy thinking there.

my t tells me that so often in a circumstance, i PUT myself into it (not in an empathetic way necessarily, but in a cause and effect way). and that i need to take myself OUT of the picture and see the circumstance as not my fault by my inability to 'do the right thing' that i project MIGHT have made the circumstance different.

this is hard, and i think falls into what you are quoting. especially as a mother. you tend to think every thing that your child struggles with is your fault for not being a better parent. but, i guess, the child comes into this world with certain abilities and lack of abilities, and we as mothers can't possibly make it all better all the time!! i know that rationally, that i can't make my child perfectly 'fit' for an imperfect and inconsistant world. but, wow, as a mom, it is sure hard ... especially when you see your child struggle in issues that you struggle in, i can't help BUT see a link to me.

anyway, i hope i am not too off with this response, and doing a bit of projecting myself (where does jill begin and end and another, sg, begin? am i projecting myslef into the middle as t says i do?)

jill

Hi Jill,

Oooooh, gooooood point you made there!!! Yes, yes, I do think this is the same principle. I was thinking of it within the context of simply getting to know someone else, either in therapy or in everyday life. But it sounds like you are applying it to situations where you are tempted to take more responsibility than what really belongs to you. Your mothering example is perfect, yes I do that too, but also in other ways. Maybe instead of a contrast between I-Thou and I-It, your example would be, where do I draw the line between "I" and "Thou"? Would it be, checking with myself to make sure I am allowing a "Thou" who also has responsibilities? At the unhealthiest ends of the spectrum, does it become "all my fault" ("I-I") or "all your fault" ("Thou-Thou")?

I think you are right...this really is all about boundaries...where do I stop and where do you start. Thanks, Jill!! This was really helpful.

Hugs,
SG

this is interesting, and seems these boundaries are really where it is at, so to speak. there is a good book on boundaries by cloud and townsend, fyi.

keep posting gals, we all learn through these examples!! jill

I found this book to be really helpful. It's by a prominent Jungian analyst, but it's not full of theory or jargon. It's a very accessible book about the soul, and how the soul - or our true selves - gets covered up in layers of adaptation and layers of crap from living in a really unhealthy culture. But it's also a very hopeful book. You can read a few pages on the book's Amazon page.

Russ

major "yum"...just finished 'every day gets a little closer' irvin yalom.

wow, i power read this stuff. i relate so much to the ginny (in case you don't know it, this is a daily chronical of therapy for a year and a half, written side by side, but separately, by the t (yalom) and the patient, ginny.

beautifully written, altho i agree with reviews, that yalom is a bit too preoccupied with himself, he explains at the end how he worked with this transference, and i concur, but, i hope all male t's don't think the things he thought and assumed were going on in ginny's mind. anyway, really warm, sweet, poignant, educational.

many notes in margins, loves some lines, she is a dreamer and states, as i feel, too, so absorbed in fantasy, in the past or future, that 'reality doesn't fully engage me'...

her hyper-consciousness, the behind the scenes script always running in my head.

her desire to 'achieve something personal in her life, not just a performance'...oh, yes, big, the fear if NOT performing, who would i be??????????

too fearful, and unknowing, to 'be'.

really powerful and impossible to put down. slow, some say, i disagree...subtle, maybe, but gripping for me...

he is powerful.

next, (big order from amazon, which, by the way, check out the used portion of the for sale there, got $4 books) carl rogers 'a way of being'...am trying to read rather than just hang out here when i need my psychology 'fix'...daily.

thanks all for the great rec's on this thread!!

jill

also, and i know it was mentioned on another thread i can't find, but, my monthly couples bible study reads a book on marriage and discusses it...christian and marriage are the two prerequisites...and i am in charge of picking the next book. i would love some ideas.

we are reading 'love and respect' by eggerichs and it is a big yawn. simplistic. elementary. boring, stupid, a real 'i know this stuff' kind of book. although i don't want to get too majorly deep, or controversial, or splintered (which i fear the book on boundaries in marriage by cloud and townsend MIGHT be...this is not really group marriage therapy ... we all have decent marriages...except for the one 'fine Christian lady' that is always hitting on my husband, but....) i would love something fresh and insightful, and not so dad-gum DRY and basic as the one we are reading.

anyway, recommendations??

thanks, deep thinkin' jill, here.

Russ, your recommendation of james hollis' Finding Meaning in the Second Half of Life: How to Finally, Really Grow Up.

This is really great. i just got it last night, and am half way through. i really like this first and second adulthood concept. i don't know how much is this author and how much is jung...nor how jung's theory of midlife differs from that of other noted thinkers in the field, particularly freud. but, i would love to find out.

excellent, well written, engaging...alarmingly hitting home with me. the trappings of childhood that you had NO IDEA you were still carrying. and, what i realize this past year has been for me, the 'dark night of the soul' which, although i am not done, i see, with this book, i am moving through.

the tensions below the surface (the real me) have slowly broken through the initial adult stage and are revealing themselves. agonizing and painful, but seeing this process in writing is quite comforting that what is going on is good, and the other side is better than the side that i wished so often i could just somehow go back to.

thanks for the recommendation, russ, and to any others thinking some of this stuff is midlife related??? a good, quick read. very, very validating and confirming.

jill

OMG this thread has gone viral!!! Clearly there's so much 'good' stuff out there!! I'm going to have to get on-line and import some of these!!!

But I'm going to get 3 strong recommendations coz I can't buy them all!!

Hey Frog/Jill/others I haven't met! - welcome back!

Morgs,
Sorry I should have put a note here. This is an old thread from last November that I remembered, so I tracked it down and moved it here.

AG