Monte - I am so happy for you. I know there was so much anticipation and anxiety around your return. I'm glad your T really seems to know where you are and to trust your knowledge of yourself. I know it won't be easy work, but it seems you are continuing your journey with T from such a good place and that is so encouraging. Thank you for sharing! ((((hugs))))

Monte! It is SO great to read this post...I loved it. (Truth be told I've been waiting with baited breath to see how it went! )

What a great T. I love 'im. I love how he understood the different parts or entities that you experience, and that he really wants to help you with your heart and emotions, opening the door and letting you mini-me out. She will be in safe hands there Mont.

I'm also so glad to hear that you will have regular weekly sessions- that continuity is something I've also been striving to attain in therapy for myself, with the help and support of some pretty smart cookies on here- and I think that will be really beneficial for you too.

Reading this whole thing has been really instructive for me, Monte- I'm glad so glad- to hear it went well. It sound like you are off to a really good start. New beginning indeed!

Beebs

Wow, it sounds like a very productive session, especially for it being your first one in 7 months. Welcome back to therapy, Monte!!

((Monte))
This is HUGE!!! This is FANTASTIC!!!
YOU ARE SO READY TO DO THE WORK TO HEAL!!!!

No wonder your T was so excited - you can 'see' so clearly the 'who' x 3, the 'why' and the 'how' you got to where you are!! You going back to therapy with all this knowledge/insight/preparedness/anger/real you x 3 is probably the biggest gift he's received in years and the biggest gift you've given yourself in years also!!



Now if you don't have a headache tomorrow I'll be really surprised!! Have a relax/spoil yourself day if you can!! You shared so much and I'm not able to respond to it all except to say there are many areas here that totally resonate with me and what you have done is an inspiration!

Morgs

(((MONTE))))

Glad you were able to reconnect with T so quickly and easily, except for the initial case of the nerves in the waiting room. He sounds lovely and wonderful.

Liese

So pleased for you, Monte. Glad you were able to reconnect with T so well.
seablue

Yeah Monte! So glad it went so well!

WaHOOOOOO!!!!! Yay, Monte!! This is wonderful news! I'm SO happy to hear things went so well and that your T is meeting you where you are at right now and that he understands what is going on and is determined to work with you and get digging to the deeper stuff. That is terrific!

I hope things just get better and better for you! Happy day!

Hugs,
MTF

Inspiring, honest and so much of it resonates. Well done Monte, you have done some really good work there

starfish

Monte,
This made for wonderful reading. I am so glad that you were able to go in and share that way. You should be very proud of yourself.

It was a little eerie hearing you discuss your parts as when I was really in the midst of recovering my memories and processing the trauma, I also had three parts, the Little AG, who was 4 or 5, the age I was when I suspect the abuse started, a 12 year (boy) who was the protector and whose job it was to stop me from trusting anyone, and my adult self. Just my long winded way of saying it sounds like you're on the right path.

I am very grateful you have a therapist who understands what you've needed and will need, and has stuck by you.

((((Monte))))

AG

Sorry for the confusion everyone, when I went to post I hit the edit button instead of the reply button and inadvertently destroyed TN's post and replaced it with mine. I'm rather red faced at the moment.

I hadn't, but now I have...and am confused. Forum glitch of some sort?

Ummmm, yeah I'm thinking WTF as well. I hope that is a glitch of some sort.

Monte,

What a great update!!! I'm am so impressed by your courage to start this process again and it warms my heart to read how you could both pick up right where you left off with that connection. I'm so glad that it went well! I will be anxious to hear of your continued progress.

Perhaps AG, who has admin access, clicked edit on the wrong post and edited TN's (making it seem like from her)? When I was a mod on other forums, I was able to edit other peoples' posts to remove objectionable content. Has to be just a mistake.

Yaku,
You're absolutely right, I must have clicked on Edit instead of reply. TN's post was the last one in the thread when i went to reply. Monte, my apologies for the confusion and TN I am so sorry, I edited out your post. I'll be more careful in the future.

AG

Mistakes happen! Doing admin/mod duties on an active forum can get pretty hectic, without all the other life stuff that we all have. I had my share of issues when doing it, so I can totally relate! (((((((((((((((((AG))))))))))))))))))) You're probably not overreacting internally like I would and likely I'm projecting my own reaction onto you, but offering big hugs!

Thanks Yaku! Not freaking out but I do feel like I should have been more careful, so I really appreciate the reassurance. It's very kind of you.

OK... AG... I know we think A LOT alike and we sometimes feel like twins but.... that was really eerie seeing your words posted under my name and avatar! I was like, huh? I don't remember writing that

Monte, I have to try to remember what I posted and I'll post again.

To AG: I'm chuckling over this so please don't worry. You know I think you are the best!

Hugs,
TN

quote:

It all feels very good and safe. I have the strongest sense of him not being scared of or discomfited by my grief or pain or need, but actually searching for it...wanting to witness it. I feel very blessed to be in his care in this way.

Okay Monte... this one is REALLY from me (TN)

I KNEW I liked your T and after reading this I like him even better! He sounds so much like my T (who as you know I adore) and yes, you feel safe because he IS safe. It makes so much difference in how we can address and reveal our past when our T is not afraid and we feel safe in that they will contain us and our emotions. We can move around and cry and rant and get angry and they are our rock. Always there and steady and calm. It's a wonderful thing to have that kind of support and total acceptance. I do like that your T seems to be pushing you a bit and I firmly believe that you will respond in a very positive way. It seems that you have both made a very strong commitment to this work and this new start.

I am thrilled that you were so courageous and took that risk to put it all out there and also that your T responded in such a great way. Well done, Monte. I look forward to hearing more about this journey with your T. Just remember, one step at a time.

Sending you warm, safe hugs,
TN

AG,

Thanks for clearing that up. I'm glad that it didn't happen to me. I'd start to think I had a new alter named AG!

TN, thanks for being so gracious!

STRM, as if you didn't have enough to deal with already!

OK back to our regularly scheduled program (sorry Monte, didn't mean to drag your thread off topic!)

Hey, Monte- I like your update. I just want to send hugs and blessings. so Glad your T is finding you. I loved your visual- that is exactly what it feels like when therapy works.

hugs to you,

BB

(((Monte)))) There was NOTHING corny or stick your finger down your throat about that at all, it was a powerful picture of healing.

I agree that is a powerful image and one probably most of us can relate to, Monte! ((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))))

Hi Monte... I'm up WAY too late LOL but I'm glad I saw your post. I want to tell you that you are in my thoughts and I'm sending very positive vibes your way. Just remember how wonderful and empowering and connecting your last session was.

Think about the commitment you both made to this new start and new journey in therapy. I believe you CAN do this. Try to believe in yourself too.

I'm looking forward to hearing how it goes.

Much luck and best wishes
TN

Praying AND responding. I can do both!

Is there a chance of telling T that you would like to pray for those things specifically before you start the session? Or perhaps tell him that you invite him to push a bit and you will let him know if it is too much? I know that is hard to imagine doing, but if you can just blurt it out at the beginning of the session, it may make things easier. (((Monte))) I hope you have another connecting session with your T and come back to us feeling like you've navigated the barriers and made it back to safe ground again.

Sorry I missed it Monte- sending some after-the-fact prayers your way. I hope it went well..

BB

Monte sorry I haven’t posted to you since you’ve been back with your T but wanted to say now that I’m really pleased you made the decision to go back, and how impressed I am by your insights about what’s been going on for you.

I guess it’s too late to wish you well today, but I hope you found the courage to keep pushing forward.

LL

Monte,

I'm late, too! Hope it went well yesterday with your T and that you're feeling good about things. Good thing is, if it didn't go well, there's always next week, and the next, etc. Don't get down over a not-so-great session, because there are lots more chances to make it great!

Hope you're well.
MTF

quote:

but it's like he is encased within an impenetrable dome of something that allows him to reach me emotionally, but not me to reach him. He cannot/will not be impacted by me. Yes, he is doing what he is supposed to do. It hurts. It hurt all last night, it hurts today and I want to tell him how bad it hurts in person, but can't.

Oh, Monte. If you weren't in another part of the world, I would wonder if we were seeing the same T. So many things are the same, like all of the unanswered questions on boundaries. I know it hurts so badly. But, you are being so brave! I'm amazed that you were able to ask about meeting in other locations and to let him know it matters what he thinks of you. I doubt he meant "I'm not here to like you, I am here to help you," but that's what I would have heard too. I'm sure he meant that he wants very much for you to embrace your need and dependency and to let it be his job to "protect" himself from invasion. I'm guessing, like me, you have had people invade your boundaries or obliterate them all your life while at the same time shoving you away any time you tried to approach? And you feel the need to protect others from what must be a "disgusting" invasion by drawing boundaries around the relationship without accepting their role in setting their own boundaries? That's how it is for me. And now you are trying to just be you and let T manage how he deals with it, but it is so scary, because if you are allowing yourself to approach, your expectation is he will run away or push you away, right? And, from listening to how you talk about your T, that is probably not "true." But it feels true. I'm sure your T gets that. And it seems like you guys are getting around to talking about it as well. I don't really know where I'm going here, but my heart is breaking for you, because it is exactly as you say, so good and so bad and painful at the same time. ((((((Monte)))))))

Monte thanks for sharing how your session went. I’m sorry it has landed you with feelings of disappointment and hurt, that are oh-so-familiar. I’ve got more to say (inevitably ) but am running out of time now so hopefully will be back later to add more. Hope you are doing ok and hanging in there (((( Monte )))))

LL

(((((Monte)))))

Your pain is palpable, my friend. I'm so sorry you're struggling so much with boundaries, limitations, etc. that are inherent to therapy. You know I understand your pain and struggles myself. Unlike you though, I have never put those things out there directly, only through writing, and even then I was vague. And my T has never fully addressed those things with me, or even really attempted to. She just told me I am putting intent where there is no intent. That's about the best I got. It left me still hurt and confused and wondering. But I finally determined that I am just another patient--whether true or not, I don't know--and although it hurts so much, it has helped. But it's so hard, and of course we want to know who/what we are to these people who have offered things outside the 'norm' and caused us to wonder if we are special, or something more than 'just' a patient to them. We long so much to be a part of their world somehow in a more real way than just formally while in their office. We need so much, and hope/think they can give us what we need. But I have finally come to accept that that is not possible. It was painful, and I know you are grappling with that same pain. I'm so sorry.

I hope you can get an answer from your T soon. You are so brave to be tackling this very difficult stuff. Even if it's through email that you're able to put it out there, I'm very impressed that you are finding the courage within yourself to address these important things. Way to go!

Sending some hugs your way...(((((Monte)))))

MTF

Back again. Have thought about your post long and hard, about what it seems you are wanting and looking for from T, and about his holding of boundaries. I'm really sorry you are in so much pain over this, but am also impressed by how you are so aware of exactly what's going on in you and what you are needing. I'm going to state the obvious of course, which is that it's important you are able to say to T the things you are telling us here. Which seems impossible to do amongst other reasons, what for? when you already know the outcome is likely to be that you're not going to get what you want...

And here I'm going to get all theoretical because I don't have a clue about attachment stuff and wouldn't recognize love if it came up and poked me in the eye with a sharp stick. But I am endlessly familiar with need, with having an all consuming debilitating despairing desperate drive to get something that seems never to be on offer. So I've taken very seriously what I've read and heard to be a way out of this deathly bind of having a need so profound that it seems life itself consists only of both trying to get it met and trying to get rid of it. (I can't write what I'm going to without giving thanks to AG and many others here on forum who have taught me so much about what doing therapy is all about - I'd never have come up with this theoretical stuff on my own.)

So the theory goes like this: firstly it's bringing the need to someone safe (a T of course), someone who I feel is potentially capable of meeting it, or at least some of it. Secondly it's allowing myself to keep feeling the need vis a vis that person and letting myself feel within the safety of being with that person, how intolerable it is when that person doesn't/can't meet the need, not in its entirety anyway (and at the same time try and take in the bits of the need that that person can meet), thirdly and this is the bit I believe in as being the way out - is to grieve, mourn, whatever the word might be, not having gotten that need met at the only time in my life when it could/should have been met (for me this will undoubtedly involve mega anger, but also mega pain) - and I believe the healing is having that other safe person be there for me in that pain. Nice and simple three easy steps eh? Well I did say this was theoretical, but it's what keeps me pushing and pushing in therapy, because I can't live anymore with this self destuctive need and if this is going to let me live beyond it, I'll keep on pushing.

I may well have totally misread your situation Monte, and I'm truly sorry if my theoretical three easy steps is in any way offensive to you (as it may come across as insensitive and dismissive of what you are feeling and going through, and I don't mean to do that at all.) It just strikes me that if we can believe there is a way out of the pain by going into the pain, that makes it all worthwhile in the end.

(((( Monte ))))

LL

((((Monte)))) ((((LL))))
Are we related? You've both written of your pain and it caused me to double over with my own - you've both verbalised what is impossible for me to do!!! I'm at work so can't post much now and have cried for both of you and me!!! Thank God I have an office!!! Have to pull myself together now!! I'm so sorry for the pain you've both lived with and still live with and wish it was otherwise - someday maybe!!
Be gentle with yourselves (((Monte))) (((LL)))

Monte and LL
I'm home from work now and just wanted to make a quick post!

(((Monte)))
I hope you're feeling a trifle better!! what LL has written in her latest post just seems to somehow sum up so beautifully what therapy is or should be and how it works - 3 'easy' steps - well not quite, but so well explained it sort of makes the process 'easier' to identify (on paper at least)?! and I do hope it gives you some comfort to know you're most definitely not alone with your 'particular' struggles with rigid boundaries and needs!!

(((LL)))

quote:

But I am endlessly familiar with need, with having an all consuming debilitating despairing desperate drive to get something that seems never to be on offer. So I've taken very seriously what I've read and heard to be a way out of this deathly bind of having a need so profound that it seems life itself consists only of both trying to get it met and trying to get rid of it.

If it's okay with you I'd like to print this out and 'maybe' show to my T tomorrow evening - it may help get us back on track!

There are so many comments from so many people in this thread that have brought me to tears and pain but at the same time, a couple of 'light bulb' moments!!

Thank you all and be gentle with yourselves.

Morgs lol I seem to be following you around the forum this morning. Glad my words can be of some help to you - by all means take whatever you want and use in whatever way you want to (this is a public forum anyway so I just assume whatever I say can be taken by anyone without having to ask me - but thanks all the same

Good luck with your next session.

LL

quote:

There has never been a person who has made me feel more vulnerable and seen and known. I can think of no other person in the world that scares me more...yet no other person that the wounded child within wants to be with more. It is very bizarre.

Yep. That sums it up for me, too.

Glad you heard back from your T. It sounds like he is really set on working through this stuff and getting somewhere this time around. That is wonderful! Keep at it my friend! You are doing great!!!

(((MONTE)))

MTF

Thank you for sharing your experiences, Monte- it means a lot to read about it. I too am in so much agony over my T relationship, that I feel like I must be completely breaking down sometimes. But then I find others who feel same way and are functioning, holding jobs and living lives, and it makes me feel there may be hope for me to break out of this and at least live. LL's response really hit home to me too. Finding a T to go into the pain with you and not back away when the going gets tough seems to be the thing. And it sounds like your T is there and not trying to break you away from him, so that is very positive in my view.

Monte I feel for you in the pain of the professional, clinical feelings inherent in the relationship.

I wanted to comment on a couple of things. First, this.:

quote:

To me, the whole thing still lacks some essential quality that anchors it...I dunno...there I am, called to share my heart and soul with someone who in turn has to shield himself from being impacted personally and responding spontaneously - ie, being 'real' - and then pack 'me' away in a steel filing cabinet in between sessions. To me it has no natural balance, harmony, order, flow.

Boy can I relate. But I wanna share something with you. It is this. My SD, although the relationship is a very different one by nature than the T relationship- has always very consistently kept the professional boundary in place. No "warm fuzzies" happening there with him- he has always maintained a very detached persona, which allows him to be freer with other things, such as personal contact, visits with mutual friends and so on. But the detachemnt- is *always* there. I do not affect him, except for in the sense that he appreciates watching what he does- how it helps me. Hos response to any successes I've made is and always remains an enthusiastic "Glory to God." I've received a lot of healing through his detachment and *total emotional consistency.* I always know what to expect with him- it *never* changes. He will be there and he will allow me to feel and express whatever I need to, and he will stay steady and not be affected by it, except to jump up and fetch me a glass of water or a box of tissues, and then sit back down and listen, and ask, and listen again. His compassion really means something, because his complete lack of judgement about "what I really need" or "my bad motives for..." is so apparent. Unlike my T who seems to assume the worst from my boundary pushing and asking.

Yeah, my T. Sometimes, kind and gentle sometimes aloof, sometimes pushy..sometimes clinical and professional- sometimes totally human, like any dude on the street. Sometimes defensive, though he swears he is not. He told me once that he had to change his level of kindness to me per session, for "when the pain gets too bad similar to having to give into an alcoholic with DT's a little drink once in great while to help with the pain." I used to love all this...he was so "real" -and I loved it. But to have felt that real, human, emotional connection and have it taken away again is...awful. I never know what it will be that day, and it *felt* like it is *me* who is affecting what he will give that day- because his response to me feels like it changes based on what I am able to offer or speak freely about that day. I used to find it almost exhilarating when I was "successful" at attaining a connection of some kind. Now I find it excruciatingly painful, because, of course (if it is true that I affected him, whether through dislike or like) then he cannot help me in a professional, totally removed manner, and would be of course pushing me away to my H "to get your emotional needs met." In fact, he has grown so uncomfortable with the level of my attachment and childish needs for him, that *he* doesn't want it. (ostensibly "for my own good" in other words, he knows my motives and needs much better than I do myself. I of course feel this emotionally as disgust coming from him and disrespect-, which I can talk about very intellectually and feel nothing about while on here. Just don't let me log off.

His need to be rid of me or to have success in healing my marital problem- has overtaken mine, to have a counselor who is consistently available and supportive to me, one who does not need anything *at all* from me in terms of "how I should be."

So- I guess I am just saying- treasure the detachment and total professionalism of your T. I used to beg my T not to "be kind to me." and then I would beg for kindness when he withheld it. But he would just say that I am pushing his caring away, and that he is "already doing everything he can, and you won't find caring like mine." Now I am begging for his kindness to me- and he is pushing *me* away. And I cannot get the support that I need from him any longer, because it is simply not available to me anymore. Clearly I completely messed up my therapy by being totally honest about my needs and feelings about him. I told him that he would have to terminate me if I told him things about how much I need him and how bad it feels, and he swore that would never happen- but he has found another way. He has exhiled me from his heart, where I used to feel I had a place. Much better for me, he had never invited me in. Or maybe- I just felt an invitation where there never was one- just because he insisted he cares for me.

I hope this can help you a bit, I think that what feels cold and clinical and detached, is actually what allows your T to give you the maximum level of care that he is capable of giving to you, and that he wants to be able to provide. And it is what allows you to co "come out" in therapy and talk to him. It is what keeps you safe, and it is why your inner child loves him. You should be able to freely push against that emotional boundary he has with all your might and know he will not shift. And I hear that happening for you, though it hurts like hell, it is a good thing in the long run, much less painful than an even slight meeting of those needs and then take that all away, IMO.

I'm sorry to use my own story to illustrate what I am trying to say about something I think of now as "emotional boundary." I realize it sounds very self-centered, as if I am asking for support in your thread- it's not how I mean to do it. but I know know other way to get my ideas across at present, except to tell my own tale- as I can't think very straight but wanted to lend some support.

((((Monte)))) and all-

(cyber-huggy BB

edited to add- that it's really possible that what I've written here only applies to me and my situation, I realize that others may be able to tolerate more emotional connection from their T's and be rational about it, without it coming to mean more, like a boundary crossing or something- than it really does- or something like that.

Ladies, you all amaze me with the way you can articulate your situations, assess them, see that there are good things happening in the T relationships, regardless of the pain of boundaries and doubts!! I feel very privileged to have met and read your stories.

I wish I could learn do that instead of progressively withdrawing and wiping my mind and stifling my feelings!

That aside, thinking of you all and hoping the holiday break can be a pleasant time for you all!!