Monte - it's easy when you see/hear inspiring 'things' for want of a better word!!
I also have to tell you and LL and MTF and all of you - I had a session with my T this evening - filled with trepidation/walls up/do I want to continue/do I have any trust left after all the rigid boundaries were put in place, blah blah!!
I think it's because of this thread and the sharing/openness/insights etc that were churning around in my head (and guts! sheesh!) that I gained strength and for the first time, according to my T, initiated the content of the session and drove it!! kwim? It was a bit of a case of, half consciously, do it or die and the outcome was good!! Lots of silent tears (hayfever of course!!) lots of warm, kind but honest talk and we got back our connection back!! She was a bit taken aback, but oh so pleased it was visible and she said "what has caused you to speak?" - naturally I told her that some of my forum friends had really touched me deeply with their stories/experiences/feelings that got me in my hurting places and insights that really touched something deep, somehow half opened my eyes or whatever!!
SO THANK YOU ALL!! Off to bed now - utterly stuffed, a bit teary still, but okay also!!
Morgs, what a wonderful thing to read. I'm so delighted! Well done you. It's great to see you blossoming around here, too. ((((((Morgs))))))
Thank you Jones!! I'm still a bit teary this morning but also much calmer!! It will be hard not seeing her for 4 weeks - she's off overseas - but we've made the next 4 2-weekly appts after her return, which was a heartening response to one of my comments!! Therapy, sometimes such a pain in the butt and at others, such a balm for the heart!!!
Take care (((Jones)))
Take care (((Jones)))
quote:In response to an email statement that I was ready to shake hands, the first thing T did when we entered his office was offer me his hand...and I took it for the first time in more than 10 years. No big deal in itself, but a massively big deal that I was finally able to hold his hand firmly and do the shake thing.
Woo hoo!! Monte - this is great stuff - yes?
quote:So, I still have many important questions from those emails that remain unanswered directly, but I also have a sense of reassurance that words could not have offered. I have said to him so many times...words are just words. That proved itself yesterday.
But, the unanswered questions don't matter as something deeper appears to be happening!! How excellent!
Very happy for you Monte!
Wow, it sounds like you had a wonderful session, Monte. I love that he catered to your requests and began the session with an extended hand. That's so symbolic. Like a man extending his hand to a lady at a formal ball and asking her to dance, only this dance is therapy.
I also love that his automatic response when you walked into the wall was to reach out to you. Shows he cares!
I also love that his automatic response when you walked into the wall was to reach out to you. Shows he cares!
Wow Monte that is wonderful! Can't help thinking that somehow you've made a massive shift that is suddenly propelling you forwards - I think you deserve at least two gold stars for how you managed that session. I particularly like the way you decided to just go with him, with what he was bringing up (object lesson to LL there about letting go prior expectations of what to talk about what to discuss what to achieve in a sesion) it sort of says that it freed him to be relaxed and feel closer and more attuned to you - thereby being able to give you a whole lot more of what you need, and letting you be able to take it in.
I am impressed. You've been through a lot with this guy, and with the breaks you've had to take. It sounds like you're now ready and able to go forward with real healing. Yay Monte!
LL
p.s. this reply feels inadequate, there's so much more I'd have liked to comment on, but I'm using up all my energy on posting excessively about myself at the moment, so just wanted to say SOMETHING to show how pleased I am for you (((( Monte ))) hm maybe I should make that a cyber handshake instead
I am impressed. You've been through a lot with this guy, and with the breaks you've had to take. It sounds like you're now ready and able to go forward with real healing. Yay Monte!
LL
p.s. this reply feels inadequate, there's so much more I'd have liked to comment on, but I'm using up all my energy on posting excessively about myself at the moment, so just wanted to say SOMETHING to show how pleased I am for you (((( Monte ))) hm maybe I should make that a cyber handshake instead
I'm feeling happy, relieved, and proud all at the same time!
That sounds like a fantastic session...Yay!!! You are making some amazing strides in your therapy, Monte! I'm so very happy for you, friend! I'm glad your T is finally hearing you and giving some things that you need, and that you are responding so favorably to it. I'm just sitting here smiling big for you and where things are going for you. Keep up the great work you're doing!!!(((Monte)))
MTF
Monte - So glad you were able to go with the flow and feel comfortable in your session with T! ((((hugs))) It warms my heart whenever I read about someone here having a good T along side them.
Hey Monte, I've been following along but haven't posted yet..I just wanted to say that it was great to read that you had such a nice, connected session. And I also just wanted to second what LG said about your T's response when you hit your arm. I actually think that it means *more* if his response was automatic and unconscious, because it shows that he cares for you on a truly deep, deep level. That he didn't have to consciously think about what to do if you are hurting. He just automatically reached out to help you. ((((Monte))))
((((Monte))))
I wanted to thank you for sharing your session with us Monte. It sounds like a really good one. It looks like you are moving along now- bravo. ( Or should I say "brava?"
anyways- I like your T and I'm glad for you...it's always so awesome to read other people's sessions. I love when people write them out, because it teaches me what it looks like... and it's really inspiring- instructive- anyways- I love it. So heartfelt thanks.
Love,
BB
anyways- I like your T and I'm glad for you...it's always so awesome to read other people's sessions. I love when people write them out, because it teaches me what it looks like... and it's really inspiring- instructive- anyways- I love it. So heartfelt thanks.
Love,
BB
quote:I was sitting loosely, I was talking clearly and often, making some eye contact. He was different in that usually he sits back in his chair with his knees crossed and talks from ‘back there’ (literally and figuratively), but after about twenty minutes he was sitting forward and in an ‘open’ position, and talking in a way that felt different...or maybe I was just more able to 'hear' him without the filter of distance, defensiveness and unmet expectations. But he was physically closer and that made everything feel closer, safer. It felt like good, honest, easy interaction. It was unthreatening...
Wow, Monte, WOW. I am so impressed with how your sessions have been going lately. You are doing wonderful work. I always liked your T and felt he was a really good T and seeing what you wrote above ... well my T does exactly that too. I KNOW how it feels. I can feel it when you write about it. My T wheels himself in closer to me and leans forward on his knees with an open stance and suddenly.... I'm so cared for and safe and I feel "hugged" and held. It's an incredible feeling. I have to say I'm getting addicted to it!
I am so proud of you for going with the flow, with being able to articuate that you were mad at him for something and he gave a perfect and awesome response.
Thank you for sharing your sessions. I love reading about them and your progress... it's very inspiring. I think you are on the right road now and you are really starting to make impressive progress. Good for you!!
Hugs
TN
Monte - I <3 your T. So glad you have him on your side and you guys are collaborating on this emerging connection. It's a blessing to hear about it! (((hugs)))
Monte,
Thank you so much for updating us on your sessions. Would you permit me to say that I'm very proud of you? You have pushed through so much fear to learn to open on this level with your T and you are doing really powerful work. Your Ts humility is a wonderful thing to see and the perseverance and commitment you both have shown to this relationship is really starting to pay off. Your courage is really an inspiration.
AG
Thank you so much for updating us on your sessions. Would you permit me to say that I'm very proud of you? You have pushed through so much fear to learn to open on this level with your T and you are doing really powerful work. Your Ts humility is a wonderful thing to see and the perseverance and commitment you both have shown to this relationship is really starting to pay off. Your courage is really an inspiration.
AG
You're just flooring me with all this wonderfulness you are experiencing in your sessions! It's fantastic!!!! I too am so proud of you for doing such hard work. I'm so glad you're feeling safe enough to do this with your T. It's so tough to do. BUT YOU'RE DOING IT!!!!
I love that you were finally able to verbalize your feelings about something your T did to upset you. THAT just made my heart sing! I know that is some very real, very serious progress for you. And you sound so, dare I say, 'comfortable' now compared to before that I am just feeling so happy for you. You have taken the steps and are doing the hard work that will get you through to the other side. Way to go!! (((Monte)))
MTF
It's fantastic!!!! I too am so proud of you for doing such hard work. I'm so glad you're feeling safe enough to do this with your T. It's so tough to do. BUT YOU'RE DOING IT!!!! I love that you were finally able to verbalize your feelings about something your T did to upset you. THAT just made my heart sing! I know that is some very real, very serious progress for you. And you sound so, dare I say, 'comfortable' now compared to before that I am just feeling so happy for you. You have taken the steps and are doing the hard work that will get you through to the other side. Way to go!! (((Monte)))
MTF
Somehow I missed your last post, Monte- I read it just now, and I like it so much. I can't say more, just that I like the way this looks so much and wish for so much more of it for you. I especially like this:
His commitment to you and your healing is so real, as in he wants to take the time for it- and I am very glad of it.
hug,
BB
quote:He recalled how he goes on and on about me needing to allow myself to be vulnerable with him and there was a situation where I did just that and all I got was the cold hard wall of silence. He said that in the future he needs to treat my email communications as me being there talking to him and answer as promptly as possible. He thanked me again, and apologized again.
His commitment to you and your healing is so real, as in he wants to take the time for it- and I am very glad of it.
hug,
BB
(((((MONTE)))))
I am so happy for you that you are feeling more and more comfortable and secure with your T. What amazes me the most is how much it seemed to help you just learning that all these attachment feelings and needs and normal and part of the process and that you gave yourself "permission" I guess to feel those things. That was a huge stumbling block for me too. I wonder how many people leave therapy because somehow it's not communicated that it's okay. It's as if the therapists want the feelings to develop but they can't tell us about them because, why? We will intellectualize??? I just can't help but wonder if there's another the therapists can handle it. But I'm not sure if you feel that this is what has changed for you? Or if you just feel more ready now than ever in the past?
Liese
I am so happy for you that you are feeling more and more comfortable and secure with your T. What amazes me the most is how much it seemed to help you just learning that all these attachment feelings and needs and normal and part of the process and that you gave yourself "permission" I guess to feel those things. That was a huge stumbling block for me too. I wonder how many people leave therapy because somehow it's not communicated that it's okay. It's as if the therapists want the feelings to develop but they can't tell us about them because, why? We will intellectualize??? I just can't help but wonder if there's another the therapists can handle it. But I'm not sure if you feel that this is what has changed for you? Or if you just feel more ready now than ever in the past?
Liese
quote:But when I leave I feel a particular surge of pain...something like meaninglessness, disconnection, even coldness after having shared so closely and then just getting up and...leaving. It hurts...for about a day or so it hurts acutely...this sense of "It is not real, he is not real...what happens in that room is not real..." It hurts and my way of coping is to switch off emotionally asap...rationalize, minimize etc...which creates other problems. Yes he prays for my comfort etc before I leave, but due to emotional blocks, I receive prayer with intellectual appreciation, but cannot find comfort in an obvious and immediately helpful way. I brought this up in email also...and I dared to request something I have wanted to request for a very long time. I asked, straight out, would he hold my hands when we pray. I said I appreciate prayer, but feel little from it emotionally on it's own and said touch was more powerful than words and that I hoped he understood that this would help me maintain my sense of meaningful connection with him. I also told him I felt creepy asking...but was pushing past the sense of creepiness as he has requested I do. He responded that it was not a creepy request and yes, we can do that.
I can relate to this so well! It is almost exactly how I feel, both the day after our session, and about prayer (except I sometimes receive that as "pushing" me away when done right at the end of sessions). I have holding hands during prayer on my list of things Kiddo asks for during sessions (which I never let her express) that I gave T. I am so glad your T is willing to do this. I am too afraid to ask for it right now, but you have a much longer-standing relationship with your T, so I have to remind myself to be patient! We've known each other less than a year and I've only been in therapy eight months. I'm SO happy for you on how things are going. You're giving me hope and courage...
quote:maybe I can help by asking him what he is thinking or what seemed to go wrong, rather than assuming the worst. He needs specifics in order to respond helpfully. I am learning that by clearly stating a need, the need can be understood and met where possible.
This is so big!
I'm glad you are having these conversations and talking about this stuff. It is so very important to know what T needs from us, and how to help things actually work. And I am so impressed that you are finally feeling comfortable enough to state needs. That is a very big step. I hope to get there myself, eventually. 
quote:when I leave I feel a particular surge of pain...something like meaninglessness, disconnection, even coldness after having shared so closely and then just getting up and...leaving. It hurts...for about a day or so it hurts acutely...this sense of "It is not real, he is not real...what happens in that room is not real..." It hurts and my way of coping is to switch off emotionally asap...rationalize, minimize etc...which creates other problems.
Boy do I relate to this. In fact, I often hurt for 4 or 5 days, but it depends on how connected I feel during a session, and how abruptly my T ends it, and how connected/disconnected I feel through her disconnect procedure as we walk down the hall and she shows me out the exit door. Sometimes I feel connected all the way and it stays with me, and other times I feel disconnected before I even reach the door. It's so hard.
I'm glad your T understands your feelings and that he thinks it is good for you to check in with him if you are feeling disconnected. Also I am amazed by you asking him to hold your hands while you pray together. His response to that is wonderful, and I am sure you are happy about that. Who wouldn't be?
So so very happy that you are finally feeling safe within your relationship with your T. Yes, healing is where that will lead you, and it is wonderful to see you finally on that road!!
(((Monte)))
MTF
((((MONTE)))))
So glad things are better this time around. I didn't think my T encouraged attachment either or it was confusing if he did but at one point recently I was so ashamed of my feelings that he told me that what I was feeling was essential for my therapy. It was such a relief to hear and it made me accept my feelings so much more. I still haven't figured out why I needed to love him and how this is going to help me but I'm going to try to trust him on this one.
(((MONTE))))
Liese
So glad things are better this time around. I didn't think my T encouraged attachment either or it was confusing if he did but at one point recently I was so ashamed of my feelings that he told me that what I was feeling was essential for my therapy. It was such a relief to hear and it made me accept my feelings so much more. I still haven't figured out why I needed to love him and how this is going to help me but I'm going to try to trust him on this one.
(((MONTE))))
Liese
Wow Monte!! Just wow. I'm so impressed by the work that you are doing and the great progress that you've made. Excellent work on your part and on your T's part as well.
Please keep us posted!
Please keep us posted!
Monte... I agree with STRM...WOW...
Thank you for writing such a touching and lovely post about your very real and amazing progress with your T. What is happening, IMHO, is that you are now allowing a relationship to develop between you and THAT is what will heal you. The words almost don't matter (well as much). Your story is important to speak aloud but it's this other stuff, the touch, the closeness, the leaning forward to speak, shaking hands,... this is the very right brain connection that heals in it's mysterious way.
Monte, I'm so happy for you that your T is being so good about all of this and I have always felt he was a really, good, kind and knowledgeable T. As for you... just hang in there and keep up with the weekly visits. I think that has also made a huge differrence. and bravo to you for being courageous enough to overcome the fear of moving closer. You are on your way my friend!!
Hugs
TN
Thank you for writing such a touching and lovely post about your very real and amazing progress with your T. What is happening, IMHO, is that you are now allowing a relationship to develop between you and THAT is what will heal you. The words almost don't matter (well as much). Your story is important to speak aloud but it's this other stuff, the touch, the closeness, the leaning forward to speak, shaking hands,... this is the very right brain connection that heals in it's mysterious way.
Monte, I'm so happy for you that your T is being so good about all of this and I have always felt he was a really, good, kind and knowledgeable T. As for you... just hang in there and keep up with the weekly visits. I think that has also made a huge differrence. and bravo to you for being courageous enough to overcome the fear of moving closer. You are on your way my friend!!
Hugs
TN
quote:This is why I have hoped for his touch and physical closeness for so long....I knew it would act as a siphon for emotion and connection. For this reason I believe touch absolutely has a place in therapy, it does have a power beyond words. He is not moving in close and touching me for the sake of it, but for the sake of reaching me and helping me connect two very separate parts that have remained disconnected despite his best other efforts
Monte - so touched to read about your session. I could relate to so many feelings in there about your wordlessness, awkwardness, wanting to know about and work out what can be done by both parties in the therapeutic relationship to meet needs and connect safely. Especially the quote above...it is exactly how I feel. I hope I get to have this sort of an experience with my T some day, if I can manage not to give up on him.
So happy for you!!! ((hugs))
Hi Monte,
This was really beautiful to read. It is so gratifying to see you come to this place after your long, long journey through the horrors of needing to move close, needing more to stay away. Here you are opening ever so slowly and certainly and gracefully, like a flower. I appreciate the subtlety and depth of what you are describing between you and your T.
I'm relating to this a lot (and taking comfort from it too) at the moment because I gave some writings to Manatee three weeks ago. We still haven't discussed them properly yet, but they are on the agenda. At first I thought he was dismissing them, didn't care and now I see him slowly drifting towards them. I loaded them up with so much stuff, have been doing all my transference work there partly to help me keep it out of the sessions. It's been quite effective... but now I'm not sure what will happen.
I also really relate to what you describe about his patience/indifference. Manatee has an incredibly light touch most of the time with me. At the beginning he was quite forceful and directive and now mostly he keeps it very light, doesn't make any strong approaches to my emotional material - though somehow he's not avoiding, either. It seems like he has a really strong gauge of what I'm feeling and how strongly and he doesn't try to provoke any more feeling, just lets it be. Sometimes I feel like it is indifference but somehow I know it is not.
We have just started couples work with him and my husband's T and it is really instructive for me seeing how he is with my husband. Manatee has been offering H an individual session to help him get comfortable and I can see the dance playing out. Manatee offers, H hesitates but expresses very ambivalent yes, Manatee backs off and leaves the ball in his court. Space... Then Manatee checks in on the offer again, H expresses a firmer but still slightly ambivalent yes, Manatee pauses, lets the offer dangle, and then chomp, H takes the bait fully, gives a firm yes. Somehow there is no feeling of manipulation in this! And I wish I knew how to do it myself - H never gives a firm Yes about anything!
But that wasn't my point - my point is about how the holding back (on the T's part), combined with just enough clarity, somehow makes the space for us to step forward. Now I wonder if Manatee is doing this with me too. Giving as much space as my expressed ambivalence suggests I need, until I am ready to really step forward. It's quite a powerful feeling (of being held) to think that might be happening.
Take care Monte - it's great to hear from you.
Jones
This was really beautiful to read. It is so gratifying to see you come to this place after your long, long journey through the horrors of needing to move close, needing more to stay away. Here you are opening ever so slowly and certainly and gracefully, like a flower. I appreciate the subtlety and depth of what you are describing between you and your T.
I'm relating to this a lot (and taking comfort from it too) at the moment because I gave some writings to Manatee three weeks ago. We still haven't discussed them properly yet, but they are on the agenda. At first I thought he was dismissing them, didn't care and now I see him slowly drifting towards them. I loaded them up with so much stuff, have been doing all my transference work there partly to help me keep it out of the sessions. It's been quite effective... but now I'm not sure what will happen.
I also really relate to what you describe about his patience/indifference. Manatee has an incredibly light touch most of the time with me. At the beginning he was quite forceful and directive and now mostly he keeps it very light, doesn't make any strong approaches to my emotional material - though somehow he's not avoiding, either. It seems like he has a really strong gauge of what I'm feeling and how strongly and he doesn't try to provoke any more feeling, just lets it be. Sometimes I feel like it is indifference but somehow I know it is not.
We have just started couples work with him and my husband's T and it is really instructive for me seeing how he is with my husband. Manatee has been offering H an individual session to help him get comfortable and I can see the dance playing out. Manatee offers, H hesitates but expresses very ambivalent yes, Manatee backs off and leaves the ball in his court. Space... Then Manatee checks in on the offer again, H expresses a firmer but still slightly ambivalent yes, Manatee pauses, lets the offer dangle, and then chomp, H takes the bait fully, gives a firm yes. Somehow there is no feeling of manipulation in this! And I wish I knew how to do it myself - H never gives a firm Yes about anything!
But that wasn't my point - my point is about how the holding back (on the T's part), combined with just enough clarity, somehow makes the space for us to step forward. Now I wonder if Manatee is doing this with me too. Giving as much space as my expressed ambivalence suggests I need, until I am ready to really step forward. It's quite a powerful feeling (of being held) to think that might be happening.
Take care Monte - it's great to hear from you.
Jones
Monte,
So happy to hear that your progress continues and that things are going so well. Makes my heart happy for you! You are making such amazing strides that your progress is inspiring me to keep pushing forward in my own therapy and to work on saying what I need to say, even if it is uncomfortable. You are showing some serious courage and taking some real risks now, and it's paying off for you big time! I'm so glad!!
Thanks for updating us. It's great to hear such good news.
Hugs,
MTF
So happy to hear that your progress continues and that things are going so well.
Makes my heart happy for you! You are making such amazing strides that your progress is inspiring me to keep pushing forward in my own therapy and to work on saying what I need to say, even if it is uncomfortable. You are showing some serious courage and taking some real risks now, and it's paying off for you big time! I'm so glad!!Thanks for updating us. It's great to hear such good news.
Hugs,
MTF
Oh ((Monte))
You say you have trouble verbalising, which I very much understand but it's there just waiting to pour from your lips, just as the written word flows from your mind to your fingers!!
I would love to give your T this update post - he would be so moved like those of us who've read it and 'felt' it!!! What an amazing connection the two of you are building after so many 'hits and runs'!!! Truly your journey, like several others within this family, are very inspiring and will give 'many' the impetus to keep going!!
Wow!! M xx
You say you have trouble verbalising, which I very much understand but it's there just waiting to pour from your lips, just as the written word flows from your mind to your fingers!!
I would love to give your T this update post - he would be so moved like those of us who've read it and 'felt' it!!! What an amazing connection the two of you are building after so many 'hits and runs'!!! Truly your journey, like several others within this family, are very inspiring and will give 'many' the impetus to keep going!!
Wow!! M xx
(((Monte))) Oh, it wasn't mean at all. I am so happy for you and it makes me hopeful that after so long in therapy, you could receive those things. It makes me hope that even though he's not willing to do that now, it doesn't mean not ever. It might just mean the timing is not right...or it may mean he can't offer it, but I won't surrender hope yet! Thanks for thinking of me, but I hope I never come into play as far as you deciding to post or not post. It is lovely to hear about you and your T!
I'm so sorry about your pet.
((((more hugs))))
Thanks for thinking of me, but I hope I never come into play as far as you deciding to post or not post. It is lovely to hear about you and your T!I'm so sorry about your pet.
((((more hugs))))
Wow Monte... this is amazing to read. I am so happy for you that your therapy is finally becoming a safe place of healing trust and hope. There have been a few times that I experineced what you are talking about here in my own therapy, before I apparently screwed it up...and it is truly the key. Thank you so much for sharing about it with us. I absolutely love and value your posts.
BB
BB
So sorry you are hurting, Monte. I think that sort of response from a T would hit a lot of us very hard. And to have it happen near the beginning of a session and pretty well take over your mind so you were just focused on that for the remaining time would be awful. I'm so sorry, and I hope you hear from your T soon. Good for you for emailing him about it. At least you put it out there, and that is what counts.
(((Monte)))
MTF
And to have it happen near the beginning of a session and pretty well take over your mind so you were just focused on that for the remaining time would be awful. I'm so sorry, and I hope you hear from your T soon. Good for you for emailing him about it. At least you put it out there, and that is what counts. (((Monte)))
MTF
((((Monte)))) I would have been feeling that way too. Knowing my T is missing my session to visit his son is hard, because I think, "Yes, that's the right thing to do, to put your family first." But my little inner one is like, "But, I thought you loved me! Can't I be your kid too? Am I nobody?" and then I remember that T's some guy adult me is paying to be very kind to little me, but will never care about me in that way.
It hurts. I tell him (in writing, NOT in person) it hurts and all the internal questions and entreaties coming from little parts asking why he can't or won't just be who I need and want him to be. He also always kind and tender and I'm sure your T will be so as well. I do think, in a way, they think of us with that sort of tenderness, even though it is limited by the nature of the relationship. Like a few weeks ago, when I was feeling like too much and so needy and challenging to my T, T compared me to my daughter. He got me completely on the topic of how Boo can be challenging. I forgot we had been talking about me altogether and I said that it was challenging, but also so rewarding (to take care of my kid). And he said, "You just said exactly how I feel!" so emphatically. I completely didn't get what he was saying until after the session was over. He could tell I didn't get it, because he asked more than once if I understood what he was saying. I bet your T feels the same way about you too. T compares his feelings about me to my feelings about Boo...that means a lot, even if it is limited. I'm sure he will be touched by your honesty and vulnerability. I hope you get a response (my T never responds to emails, just reads them and sometimes comments on stuff in session, though he doesn't even always do that).
It hurts. I tell him (in writing, NOT in person) it hurts and all the internal questions and entreaties coming from little parts asking why he can't or won't just be who I need and want him to be. He also always kind and tender and I'm sure your T will be so as well. I do think, in a way, they think of us with that sort of tenderness, even though it is limited by the nature of the relationship. Like a few weeks ago, when I was feeling like too much and so needy and challenging to my T, T compared me to my daughter. He got me completely on the topic of how Boo can be challenging. I forgot we had been talking about me altogether and I said that it was challenging, but also so rewarding (to take care of my kid). And he said, "You just said exactly how I feel!" so emphatically. I completely didn't get what he was saying until after the session was over. He could tell I didn't get it, because he asked more than once if I understood what he was saying. I bet your T feels the same way about you too. T compares his feelings about me to my feelings about Boo...that means a lot, even if it is limited. I'm sure he will be touched by your honesty and vulnerability. I hope you get a response (my T never responds to emails, just reads them and sometimes comments on stuff in session, though he doesn't even always do that).
Aw Monts...I'm so sorry you ran right into that pain. I know how badly that one hurts. Gosh, it kills me just to read about it. But I do believe that your T has deep feelings of care and even affection for you, Monte. I really do. Still...that may not be what you need to hear. Hmmm...I am thinking out loud so bear with me. Here is where I get confused with this aspect of therapy. At some point at the core of this attachment pain, I begin to feel very much like I am offering my T something that he doesn't want. I am offering him my thoughts, my feelings and my genuine affection and appreciation and *care for him* and he just *doesn't want it.* So it's like, he's not interested so I *can't* share my inner world with him. In my case it is not even just that it wouldn't be therapeutically beneficial for me, if he was just plain *interested* in what I have to say or who I am- that I could deal with. I run into that boundary with my SD, and while it is terribly painful, I can deal with it and kind of work around it-share *anyway* because I *know he likes me* and he finds small ways to make that clear. Or, I know he is interested, finds me to be a person that he derives some pleasure at least, from talking to, idk- if there is *nothing* there, than what is the point, y'know? But I don't know. It just seems importnat to me...idk. SO, yeah...they shouldn't need anything from us, but..up to a point...kwim? With my T I think it hurts because I really feel that, if we knew eachother in RL, and had reason to be friendly, I am the type of person that he would just pass by and never notice or like, in fact he would probably dislike me. Projection maybe, but... In fact he has said that to me- when I asked if he likes me once, he responded with "well, I wouldn't be friends with you if I knew you in real life." So- I guess I am wondering is it that type of rejection you are talking about here, or is it the boundary of just knowing that you will never belong to him in the same way that a family member would. Doesn't there get to be a point when you become dear to him? It just seems like there would be such a point...is that so wrong...really?
Monte, I'm so sorry you had to experience that pain when hearing your T talk about his granddaughter. That really tapped into your grief of what you didn't get to experience as a child. I'm sorry. I don't know any way around that. But I am SO glad you emailed your T and told him simply and honestly what happened. I think that is huge progress. You told him and didn't sit on it and have it fester and turn really ugly. You were open about how it made you feel. One step forward.
I do truly believe your T cares about you Monte. It is so evident in all his actions and reactions surrounding your relationship. He is one of the really good guys. Of course that does not take away the fact that you are not his daughter or granddaughter and that is the space where the grief sits and overwhelms us. Okay... so you are not his granddaughter BUT you are his long-time, cherished patient that he cares about and has a real, truly real relationship with. That care he shows you is real, Monte.
My T happens to be very open about how he feels about the therapeutic relationship. He tells me that T's do not like to talk about it but they do have very real feelings for their clients... especially those who they do long-term psychodynamic therapy with. He tells me that T's are NOT exempt from the feelings that grow in this kind of relationship.... from simple caring to even love in the purest form. It's that giving, unconditional kind of love that we never had. The nurturing kind of love. He says that it would be impossible for him to work long-term with someone he didn't care about. He says that he can tell within the first 2 or 3 sessions if a relationship is possible, if there is potential for the connection. If not, he will decline the patient. He also says that some people do not require it for their therapy purposes, but for those with attachment wounds who are long-term patients (more than a year) the feelings will grow on both sides and aside from transference, there are very real feelings involved. Luckily, he says that he welcomes this attachment and the bond. He encourages it. He also reminds me that it's important to watch what he does more than what he says. I can see your T doing all the right things with you, Monte. So please take heart that he does truly care for you and even though you cannot take the relationship out of the therapy space, it is a very real relationship, nonetheless.
Sending you warm hugs. Please let us know when you hear back from your T.
TN
I do truly believe your T cares about you Monte. It is so evident in all his actions and reactions surrounding your relationship. He is one of the really good guys. Of course that does not take away the fact that you are not his daughter or granddaughter and that is the space where the grief sits and overwhelms us. Okay... so you are not his granddaughter BUT you are his long-time, cherished patient that he cares about and has a real, truly real relationship with. That care he shows you is real, Monte.
My T happens to be very open about how he feels about the therapeutic relationship. He tells me that T's do not like to talk about it but they do have very real feelings for their clients... especially those who they do long-term psychodynamic therapy with. He tells me that T's are NOT exempt from the feelings that grow in this kind of relationship.... from simple caring to even love in the purest form. It's that giving, unconditional kind of love that we never had. The nurturing kind of love. He says that it would be impossible for him to work long-term with someone he didn't care about. He says that he can tell within the first 2 or 3 sessions if a relationship is possible, if there is potential for the connection. If not, he will decline the patient. He also says that some people do not require it for their therapy purposes, but for those with attachment wounds who are long-term patients (more than a year) the feelings will grow on both sides and aside from transference, there are very real feelings involved. Luckily, he says that he welcomes this attachment and the bond. He encourages it. He also reminds me that it's important to watch what he does more than what he says. I can see your T doing all the right things with you, Monte. So please take heart that he does truly care for you and even though you cannot take the relationship out of the therapy space, it is a very real relationship, nonetheless.
Sending you warm hugs. Please let us know when you hear back from your T.
TN
quote:I said it feels as though I am coming to him as a parent bringing a troubled child to a therapist. A child I don't know what to do with anymore...can't deal with, connect with...that I don't even like. Said that though I bring her with me, somehow she always ends up outside the door - never in the room with me - but that I can often 'hear' her at the door ‘making a racket’ while we talk. Acknowledged also that Adult me is there to solve a problem, but Child me is not...she is only looking for a father-figure and is not even remotely interested in anything he has to say...she just wants a hug, just wants to matter, just wants to feel safe.
Oh Monte, this is JUST how I feel most times in my sessions. T is welcoming about my feelings, but I never have the sense of whether ANY of her needs can be met, so it feels impossible to get her "out of the closet" she's always hiding in. And also, wanting to invite her in that room, but my T wanting her to grow up is scary, because in the past, that has meant not taking the time she needs and getting the care she needs, but just pretending to be big when she's not not. I have been told that I acted age 30 at 8. So, my inner kids have spent pretty much my whole lifetime pretending to be adults when, in fact, they were still stuck as children.
It sound so lovely about him being willing to have the lights low. That is something I would love to ask for. My T's office has no windows or anything and pretty bright lights, which make me feel so exposed. I would do my sessions with the lowest light possible if he would let me, but I don't know how he would feel about that. I get what you're saying about the sense of shame and disgust when he is meeting those needs for closeness, etc. When T would sit on the floor with me, closer by, I would feel at the same time, overwhelmingly comforted and panicked, ashamed, unsure of whether I was even ALLOWED to feel comforted by him. It was a very confusing place to be. I also desperately want to be able to cry with my T, but feel incapable of doing so. I imagined him giving me a hug coming into my next session, because I could REALLY use one right now, and I think if he held me for 30 seconds, I might soak his shirt, LOL. Who knows, maybe I would panick about infecting him with my yuckiness or something.
Everything I read of your T's interactions with you seem to me to indicate an actual affection toward you, and even with that age difference, it could be a familiar/caregiver type of feeling. I, for example, get MOTHERING feelings for people who are 10-20 years younger than I am, because I was a mother figure for siblings in those age ranges. So, I don't think you can assume his lack of feeling that way toward you. I'd like to think my T has paternal feelings toward me. It would make me feel a little less ashamed of my transference feelings toward him. I don't know exactly how old he is, but I think he is right in my dad's age range...and has sons who are a bit younger than I am.
I really understand how you are feeling with regards to the professional nature of the relationship vs personal nature of the interactions. It is really hard. Recently, I have been describing it (to myself, as I don't think I could say this to T), like I'm paying child support to someone to take care of Little Yaku and Kiddo, because I'm an unfit parent and so T has custody of them. But...he doesn't really want the kids, just feels obligated to keep them safe from me until I can take care of them. How yucky is that? Ugh, how do we keep stepping forward toward these "caregivers" when their whole goal is for us to leave. Yeah, I get it, that's what happens in real parent-child relationships. Kids eventually want to and are ready to move on (well, most, LOL). But still, five-year-olds aren't intellectually and emotionally confronted with the reality of, "Hey, kid, 13-years and counting." They come to it naturally. However, in therapy, that information is there from the beginning, that the goal is to grow us up and get us out. Any kid having to face that sort of message would freak out, so I think us freaking out in our kid feelings is normal.
I am thinking of your statement of it not being "real" and realizing that a few times, when I am experiencing...is it called depersonalization?...recently, I see my body, this body that looks too grown up, looks like not mine at all, and get so disgusted, because if I could just look like the little one who is emerging in me, maybe T could give me the love and affection I need. But how could he ever, with a grown, 30-year-old woman? How could he not be disgusted or scared of these little feelings in this grown up body? Ugh...
I think I may have just made things worse here, but I really FEEL just how you do about so many of these things. (((Monte))) I hope you and your kid and keep moving, inch by inch, close to your T and feel what I suspect is VERY REAL care for you. How could someone be in your life for 15 years and not feel care and affection toward you (and especially you, because you are awesome!)?
Oh Monte, I so relate to your post and pain.
I wish there was an emoticon for crying because I would have put one right there. It sounds to me as if you haven't fully accepted your attachment to him and you are worrying about the ending of the relationship when you probably don't have to. To me, just the fact that you have a 15-year relationship with him says that he is very open to long-term therapeutic relationships and that quite possibly the relationship really never has to end. The attachment feelings are really difficult because we often suffer from the fear of attachment and also the fear of attachment loss. It's a double-edged sword in reality.
If it's any consolation, I know how difficult those feelings are and if it's also any consolation, it's worth it to fight the fears and get securely attached.
(((HUGS)))
Liese
I wish there was an emoticon for crying because I would have put one right there. It sounds to me as if you haven't fully accepted your attachment to him and you are worrying about the ending of the relationship when you probably don't have to. To me, just the fact that you have a 15-year relationship with him says that he is very open to long-term therapeutic relationships and that quite possibly the relationship really never has to end. The attachment feelings are really difficult because we often suffer from the fear of attachment and also the fear of attachment loss. It's a double-edged sword in reality.
If it's any consolation, I know how difficult those feelings are and if it's also any consolation, it's worth it to fight the fears and get securely attached.
(((HUGS)))
Liese
Monte,
What about asking him about the end of therapy then? Maybe the answer will be more reassuring than you think it will be. My T has actually told me that there is no time limit, that I can stay in therapy as long as I want. This reassurance has given me a huge amount of relief and enabled me to relax (well a little) and get down to the issues that need to be worked on. Although getting securely attached surely is one of the huge issues that gets worked on. But if this particular thing is bothering you, it seems as though it should be cleared up.
And, I wouldn't encourage you to do this if I thought you were going to be told, "You have to be finished up here in exactly 10 months and 6 days." I think you might actually get an answer from him that is reassuring.
(((MONTE))))
What about asking him about the end of therapy then? Maybe the answer will be more reassuring than you think it will be. My T has actually told me that there is no time limit, that I can stay in therapy as long as I want. This reassurance has given me a huge amount of relief and enabled me to relax (well a little) and get down to the issues that need to be worked on. Although getting securely attached surely is one of the huge issues that gets worked on. But if this particular thing is bothering you, it seems as though it should be cleared up.
And, I wouldn't encourage you to do this if I thought you were going to be told, "You have to be finished up here in exactly 10 months and 6 days." I think you might actually get an answer from him that is reassuring.
(((MONTE))))
((((((((((Monte)))))))))) I'm sorry that the threat of your T's retirement is overshadowing your relationship with him. I can hear the pain and rawness in your little girl's response to that and it is heartbreaking. Especially how you put it - how there is a "use-by date" - to think of that, alongside your very tender vulnerabilities - the contrast is almost obscene, isn't it? I wonder if this is where your sense of disgust comes from...do you think maybe it is not your needs that are disgusting, but the contrast between your needs, and the limitations of this relationship? I don't know...I just know in my own therapy, there continues to be this process of realizing I am equating two things that turn out not to be the same things...this sense of seeing that I actually need to separate this from that, because they are different...and for me, there has been some healing in that...my own T has repeatedly told me that my tears are "beautiful", for example...and I continue to think she's nuts sometimes when she says that...but I'm starting to see why she's saying it...and I have no idea if this is helpful to you...but what she says is easier for me to see in someone else, like you right now...I do wish you could see that your needs ARE okay, they are beautiful...you are beautiful...I wish you didn't feel that your crying would be an ugly thing...it is the thing that makes you cry that is ugly...your response is beautiful because it means you are alive and able to see that something is ugly and wrong about the way you were treated...does that make sense?
And the limitations of your relationship with your T...as we are both believers, can I just throw this out there...can you picture God "catching" you in the places where your T has to let you go? I hope you don't hear that as a flip response...this is not something I've perfected myself, by any means...it is something I keep working toward...I "know" that is what God wants me to do, but I'm extremely resistant in actually doing it...and yet, I'm pretty sure that's what He wants me to do...and He'll never have the opportunity to "catch" me unless I extend myself to the point where I can be "dropped" by someone else...take those risks...I'm starting to do this with my DH...and he's "dropped" me many times...and as crazy as I thought that was to do, I didn't die...but then I see God kind of "catching" me in the pain that follows (in prayer, insights...hard to explain that part...kind of a comfort that comes in going to him in prayer)...only to go back and take more risks with DH...it's an iterative process but one in which I get closer to BOTH DH and God too.
Oh I hope this makes some sense and helps...I know it sounds weird...so if I'm way off base just toss this out...but at any rate please know that I care about you and am so glad you are here writing about your experiences with your T...I love hearing about your sessions...and I also believe your T cares for you personally...the detachment, I know it hurts, especially when you see it...but I suspect that he's making a concerted effort to be detached, for your sake, so he doesn't hurt you unnecessarily, in ways that would not be helpful to you...I know that doesn't take away the pain of what he can't give you, though...and I'm so sorry for that. Your little girl deserved so very much more than what she got.
Much love and many hugs,
SG
Especially how you put it - how there is a "use-by date" - to think of that, alongside your very tender vulnerabilities - the contrast is almost obscene, isn't it? I wonder if this is where your sense of disgust comes from...do you think maybe it is not your needs that are disgusting, but the contrast between your needs, and the limitations of this relationship? I don't know...I just know in my own therapy, there continues to be this process of realizing I am equating two things that turn out not to be the same things...this sense of seeing that I actually need to separate this from that, because they are different...and for me, there has been some healing in that...my own T has repeatedly told me that my tears are "beautiful", for example...and I continue to think she's nuts sometimes when she says that...but I'm starting to see why she's saying it...and I have no idea if this is helpful to you...but what she says is easier for me to see in someone else, like you right now...I do wish you could see that your needs ARE okay, they are beautiful...you are beautiful...I wish you didn't feel that your crying would be an ugly thing...it is the thing that makes you cry that is ugly...your response is beautiful because it means you are alive and able to see that something is ugly and wrong about the way you were treated...does that make sense?And the limitations of your relationship with your T...as we are both believers, can I just throw this out there...can you picture God "catching" you in the places where your T has to let you go? I hope you don't hear that as a flip response...this is not something I've perfected myself, by any means...it is something I keep working toward...I "know" that is what God wants me to do, but I'm extremely resistant in actually doing it...and yet, I'm pretty sure that's what He wants me to do...and He'll never have the opportunity to "catch" me unless I extend myself to the point where I can be "dropped" by someone else...take those risks...I'm starting to do this with my DH...and he's "dropped" me many times...and as crazy as I thought that was to do, I didn't die...but then I see God kind of "catching" me in the pain that follows (in prayer, insights...hard to explain that part...kind of a comfort that comes in going to him in prayer)...only to go back and take more risks with DH...it's an iterative process but one in which I get closer to BOTH DH and God too.
Oh I hope this makes some sense and helps...I know it sounds weird...so if I'm way off base just toss this out...but at any rate please know that I care about you and am so glad you are here writing about your experiences with your T...I love hearing about your sessions...and I also believe your T cares for you personally...the detachment, I know it hurts, especially when you see it...but I suspect that he's making a concerted effort to be detached, for your sake, so he doesn't hurt you unnecessarily, in ways that would not be helpful to you...I know that doesn't take away the pain of what he can't give you, though...and I'm so sorry for that. Your little girl deserved so very much more than what she got.
Much love and many hugs,
SG
((((MONTE)))))
I am sorry if somehow I missed that part about his impending retirement. I know it seems like 5 years is a long time away but it would definitely prey in the back of my mind also, like why bother getting attached. It definitely sounds like you need to talk to him about this because maybe there IS something he can say to ease your mind.
Liese
I am sorry if somehow I missed that part about his impending retirement. I know it seems like 5 years is a long time away but it would definitely prey in the back of my mind also, like why bother getting attached. It definitely sounds like you need to talk to him about this because maybe there IS something he can say to ease your mind.
Liese