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(((((((Monte))))))) I'm sorry you have to fight this every week. I'm not currently experiencing the same struggle, but I did, very much so, when I was seeing male T's. And those feelings were never resolved in either case, so I don't have an answer for you. I felt everything you described, especially that wanting to be lovingly wrapped up and tucked away...and I can really see why the mention of his granddaughter evoked painful feelings...I'm sorry it feels humiliating...I hope you are able to talk to him today anyway, and hopefully get some answers.
Hugs,
SG
Hugs,
SG
Yes its very hard, and yes its limiting but thats what makes it beneficial, as we heal it really does become enought, less is more sometimes, and in this case, thats certainly true. I could spend all day with someone and not feel as seen as I do in my 50min sessions, I thinking the longings come from unhealed wounds when what should have felt enought wasn't.
Hi Monte,
Yes, yes, yes, yes and yes. I remember all those feelings and at times it would hurt so badly and at other times I was just furious with the whole process and wanted to quit. I could NOT see the purpose behind my putting myself through this. I am sorry, Monte, I do not want to in any way minimize the very real pain that you are in. But...
TRIGGER WARNING: Monte what I’m about to say are hard truths, and I know that I can be quite triggering for you at times, so don’t read this now if you just don’t want to hear it at this point. A feeling I also experienced. END WARNING
The truth is that this is NOT just a hour a week. This is a deep, intimate, vulnerable relationship in which you are using to walk in some really dark places. It’s significance has nothing to do with time spent. So the intensity is not of your imagining, it’s an integral part of the work. If this stuff were easy to deal with, you would have done it on your own.
This pain that you are running into is at the heart of healing. The truth is that the feelings of wanting someone to fix it, wanting to be wrapped up in cotton wool and taken care of were legitimate, real, healthy needs at one time in your life. In childhood, those are completey reasonable expectations. The people who should have provided that for you failed to meet those needs. Whether or not you ever face it, or feel it, no matter what triggers the feelings associated with it, this is a very deep, real painful loss. Part of the loss is not even being able to completely understand what you lost. I do not know if it is true for you, and I wouldn’t want to presume, but an important part of healing for me was to face this loss and mourn it. And my T played a very important role in that. He consistently offered me the acceptance, care, understanding and support I had been looking for my whole life. No matter what I brought to him, he accepted it, affirmed how I was feeling, normalized my feelings and helped me understand myself. He accepted everything about me, even the stuff that I wasn’t proud of (nor should have been). He taught me my worthiness by treating me as worthwhile.
And it wasn’t enough. Which totally and completely sucks btw. It wasn’t enough to make that loss go away. My life had been one long pursuit of trying to find the person who would finally meet my needs. The only way I came to grips with my loss and could accept it so that I would stop looking was because it was so jarring to have my T be all those things to me, to so clearly meet my legitimate needs and yet have it not be enough. It was like “here you go, you have everything you ever wanted, happy?” And the answer was f---, no! So through a long, very painful, chaotic, confusing process, I finally came to grips with the fact that if what my T was doing wasn’t enough, then it just WAS NOT POSSIBLE to get what I longed for. Monte, it was one of the most painful realizations of my life, and the grief the most intense I ever faced.
But from the other side, I will tell you it was worth it to me. Mourning that loss, letting go of that hope has freed me in so many ways. I believe that you have the relationship with your T that will allow you to heal, and I believe you have the faith, courage, and strength to face this pain and come out stronger for it.
I want to leave you with a quote from my T “Being real sucks, but it beats not being real.” I am sorry that the path to healing lies through so much pain. I really do wish I could change that for you. But based on my experience (admittedly limited) there was purpose and meaning in that pain.
AG
Yes, yes, yes, yes and yes. I remember all those feelings and at times it would hurt so badly and at other times I was just furious with the whole process and wanted to quit. I could NOT see the purpose behind my putting myself through this. I am sorry, Monte, I do not want to in any way minimize the very real pain that you are in. But...
TRIGGER WARNING: Monte what I’m about to say are hard truths, and I know that I can be quite triggering for you at times, so don’t read this now if you just don’t want to hear it at this point. A feeling I also experienced. END WARNING
The truth is that this is NOT just a hour a week. This is a deep, intimate, vulnerable relationship in which you are using to walk in some really dark places. It’s significance has nothing to do with time spent. So the intensity is not of your imagining, it’s an integral part of the work. If this stuff were easy to deal with, you would have done it on your own.
This pain that you are running into is at the heart of healing. The truth is that the feelings of wanting someone to fix it, wanting to be wrapped up in cotton wool and taken care of were legitimate, real, healthy needs at one time in your life. In childhood, those are completey reasonable expectations. The people who should have provided that for you failed to meet those needs. Whether or not you ever face it, or feel it, no matter what triggers the feelings associated with it, this is a very deep, real painful loss. Part of the loss is not even being able to completely understand what you lost. I do not know if it is true for you, and I wouldn’t want to presume, but an important part of healing for me was to face this loss and mourn it. And my T played a very important role in that. He consistently offered me the acceptance, care, understanding and support I had been looking for my whole life. No matter what I brought to him, he accepted it, affirmed how I was feeling, normalized my feelings and helped me understand myself. He accepted everything about me, even the stuff that I wasn’t proud of (nor should have been). He taught me my worthiness by treating me as worthwhile.
And it wasn’t enough. Which totally and completely sucks btw. It wasn’t enough to make that loss go away. My life had been one long pursuit of trying to find the person who would finally meet my needs. The only way I came to grips with my loss and could accept it so that I would stop looking was because it was so jarring to have my T be all those things to me, to so clearly meet my legitimate needs and yet have it not be enough. It was like “here you go, you have everything you ever wanted, happy?” And the answer was f---, no! So through a long, very painful, chaotic, confusing process, I finally came to grips with the fact that if what my T was doing wasn’t enough, then it just WAS NOT POSSIBLE to get what I longed for. Monte, it was one of the most painful realizations of my life, and the grief the most intense I ever faced.
But from the other side, I will tell you it was worth it to me. Mourning that loss, letting go of that hope has freed me in so many ways. I believe that you have the relationship with your T that will allow you to heal, and I believe you have the faith, courage, and strength to face this pain and come out stronger for it.
I want to leave you with a quote from my T “Being real sucks, but it beats not being real.” I am sorry that the path to healing lies through so much pain. I really do wish I could change that for you. But based on my experience (admittedly limited) there was purpose and meaning in that pain.
AG
Sorry Monte, cross posted, I'll have to come back later.
((((Monte))))
I'm sorry it is so agonizing, but glad you shared your session as I can relate to so many feelings there. Not up to posting much right now, but wanted to say you are so brave for going back!
I'm sorry it is so agonizing, but glad you shared your session as I can relate to so many feelings there. Not up to posting much right now, but wanted to say you are so brave for going back!
Monte, thank you for sharing. I want so much to have that kind of realtionship with my (lost) T. I wanted someone to lead me into the pain and rcognize it for what it was. And I think touch is an integral part of that, actually. I am confused about, why it is sort of *good* pain. I think I got stuck there, and I still don't understand it- or if I did understand it, I lost the understanding along the way somewhere.
anyway...a few tears leaked out while I read your post, and I feel a little less dead for the reading of it, so thank you for sharing even though it is really ouchy. I think I somehow need ouchy right now, and am avoiding the huge ouchyness I face.
love,
BB
anyway...a few tears leaked out while I read your post, and I feel a little less dead for the reading of it, so thank you for sharing even though it is really ouchy. I think I somehow need ouchy right now, and am avoiding the huge ouchyness I face.
love,
BB
((((Monte))))
You know I can relate one hundred percent to your first post. I wonder why I'm still in therapy sometimes because it consumes my whole life, and I hate that aspect of it. And my T tells me it shouldn't, but I can't make it stop.
I'm right there with you on all of it.
I'm glad you went back to your T's office. Yes, that was very brave of you.
Way to go! That is good progress. The way you express your feelings about all of this is amazing. I wish I could articulate it so well myself. Chewing on broken glass is also what I'd rather do than talk to my T about the pain of the attachment, and the significance of the relationship and how much it hurts. I think my T knows this, but rather than push me gently toward it anyway, she now suggests we try something else. I think I need to take some time to seriously write out what I need to say to her and be brave and just go in and read it to her. The more that comes out the harder it seems at times, but I know it's the only way through it. As you told me in my thread, it's such an important piece of the work to be done and can't be avoided, or it will continue to trip me and her up. If only it wasn't SO HARD.
I think you are doing so great! And your T is right there with you, which is wonderful. I'm glad you communicated to him the need for proximity. I feel so icky to ask for that from my T, but since she has offered it, I know I really should. I would just feel like it was forced and not what she really wanted and I think/wonder that it might feel wrong then. There's so much I need to say to her, and so little time to get to it in that hour every few weeks. I'm glad for you that you get 90 minutes every week. Jealous, actually.
Keep up the great work, Monte!! You are a great example to me, and I so appreciate you!
Hugs,
MTF
You know I can relate one hundred percent to your first post. I wonder why I'm still in therapy sometimes because it consumes my whole life, and I hate that aspect of it. And my T tells me it shouldn't, but I can't make it stop.
I'm right there with you on all of it.I'm glad you went back to your T's office. Yes, that was very brave of you.
Way to go! That is good progress. The way you express your feelings about all of this is amazing. I wish I could articulate it so well myself. Chewing on broken glass is also what I'd rather do than talk to my T about the pain of the attachment, and the significance of the relationship and how much it hurts. I think my T knows this, but rather than push me gently toward it anyway, she now suggests we try something else. I think I need to take some time to seriously write out what I need to say to her and be brave and just go in and read it to her. The more that comes out the harder it seems at times, but I know it's the only way through it. As you told me in my thread, it's such an important piece of the work to be done and can't be avoided, or it will continue to trip me and her up. If only it wasn't SO HARD.I think you are doing so great! And your T is right there with you, which is wonderful. I'm glad you communicated to him the need for proximity. I feel so icky to ask for that from my T, but since she has offered it, I know I really should. I would just feel like it was forced and not what she really wanted and I think/wonder that it might feel wrong then. There's so much I need to say to her, and so little time to get to it in that hour every few weeks. I'm glad for you that you get 90 minutes every week. Jealous, actually.
Keep up the great work, Monte!! You are a great example to me, and I so appreciate you!
Hugs,
MTF
((((MONTE))))
I can relate so well. Know the pain of attachment, the feelings of wanting to run and quit. Going back in there to his office was an incredibly brave act and took so much strength and determination. I know it's scary but each step is a step closer to your goal. (BTW, I'm trying to convince you of all this as well as myself.)
Bravo, Monte!!!
Love,
Liese
I can relate so well. Know the pain of attachment, the feelings of wanting to run and quit. Going back in there to his office was an incredibly brave act and took so much strength and determination. I know it's scary but each step is a step closer to your goal. (BTW, I'm trying to convince you of all this as well as myself.)
Bravo, Monte!!!
Love,
Liese
OOOH, Monte, I am in a similar place. T just told me yesterday that a lot of his clients leave with red eyes. I hardly emote. I cry at home by myself. For me my pain hurts so much, it feels so fetal-like and I ache for him to put his hands on top of my head and regulate my nervous system and take my pain away. I can't bring myself to bring my pain to him because of the great intensity of it all. I don't want him to just stare at me whilst I curl in a ball and cry. Sometimes I think maybe I will just pay someone to hold me, just hold me while I cry, so I can cry for an hour and then it will be over and I can move on. I'm so afraid to ask him to put his hands on my head, so afraid of a no but maybe even more afraid of a yes. That act would be so intimate and so vulnerable.
I'm in a similar place with my T in that I'm not getting that emotional connection that I'm looking for and it's not making me feel safe enough to share my emotions with him. But, like you, it sounds as though this is all fruit waiting to be discussed and dissected.
Your T's email was really beautiful. He does have a way with the written word, Monte. Hope we both find that connection with our T's that we're looking for.
Awesome work sharing your feelings with your T like that via email. My T won't let me email him because he wants me to verbalize this stuff to him. I told him that I'd make so much more progress if he would just let me email him but I've given up on that point.
Love,
Liese
I'm in a similar place with my T in that I'm not getting that emotional connection that I'm looking for and it's not making me feel safe enough to share my emotions with him. But, like you, it sounds as though this is all fruit waiting to be discussed and dissected.
Your T's email was really beautiful. He does have a way with the written word, Monte. Hope we both find that connection with our T's that we're looking for.
Awesome work sharing your feelings with your T like that via email. My T won't let me email him because he wants me to verbalize this stuff to him. I told him that I'd make so much more progress if he would just let me email him but I've given up on that point.
Love,
Liese
(((Monte)))
Thank you for sharing this with us. You have a very unusual relationship with your T, I think- I am amazed that he is willing to offer you such deep emotional connection. He isn't uncomfortable with it? He doesn't seem to be in the least uncomfortable with you needing a deep emotional connection with him! I don't say this to sow any doubt, that's the last thing I want, I'm just kind of incredulous, and yet I'm very gald for you. It's what we all need in therapy, I beleive, but what most T's seem so afriad to offer, since they seem to equate it with something somehow inappropriate. I'm glad you have this T, Monte.
I love reading about your sessions.
BB
Thank you for sharing this with us. You have a very unusual relationship with your T, I think- I am amazed that he is willing to offer you such deep emotional connection. He isn't uncomfortable with it? He doesn't seem to be in the least uncomfortable with you needing a deep emotional connection with him! I don't say this to sow any doubt, that's the last thing I want, I'm just kind of incredulous, and yet I'm very gald for you. It's what we all need in therapy, I beleive, but what most T's seem so afriad to offer, since they seem to equate it with something somehow inappropriate. I'm glad you have this T, Monte.
I love reading about your sessions.
BB
Monte thank you so much for sharing your session. It really helps me to read about how you are working with your T as he sounds a bit like mine and it seems that we struggle with a few of the same issues in the relationship. Except that I cry. A lot. With this T he barely said hi to me and I started crying. I was so wounded and raw from being banished by oldT that I could barely stand to be in a therapists office. Just the acknowledgement that I was not in my oldT's office was so painful and made me cry. So we got the crying issue out of the way immediately!
But beyond that... I truly understand those blah sessions where you try so hard to find that connection and attunement and it just feels like something is "off" or you just can't make that connection. I realize too, that sometimes it's just them and the circumstances of their life or their work. My T and I just had a conversation where he told me that he knows that some days he is just not hitting things right. That maybe he didn't sleep well the night before, or he had a very difficult client situation come up, or he had a crazy morning with lots of phone calls and scheduling issues. He told me it's not me it's him and if I should ever be feeling that something is not right I should feel free to bring it into discussion. Remember that day when he was distracted, had to pee and didn't shake my hand? The whole session got off to a bad start and it just went downhill after that.
Another issue is their detachment to us in session. While I feel that both your T and mine do care for us and show it in many ways, perhaps it's not in that very emotionally visible way we are used to looking for. That they are really NOT detached at all but mentally working hard to do the best and right thing for us, yet we do not see it because it's more subtle. I just wrote in my post on "Hitting the Wall" that we figured out what I was missing from this relationship... and it is not really something I should have. I had it with oldT but it was not healthy for me.
I'm glad you wrote that raw email and that you got back such a lovely, caring and informative response from your T. And such a looong one LOL. My T never writes that much but I do love his emails and he always follows them up in session so he can expand upon the response and then to make sure I got what I needed. I think your T is trying to explain to you the work he is doing and why. He seems very genuine and accessible and honest with you. All good things. The hardest thing we have to remember is that they are human.
My T and I discussed yesterday how he feels about me and how I'm not really able to take it in on that verbal level and how I am looking for his showing emotion to "prove" his caring for me to me... and that is just not the best thing for me. He explained how he has tried to convey his deep respect and his affection for me. He used the word "affection" a number of times but I was so on edge and terrified of the discussion it was hard to take in. And we only have a short 8 month relationship. You and your T have so many years together. I think our fears are so encompassing there is not enough space left for us to take in the care, affection and kindness from our Ts. I need to work on freeing up that space for the good stuff.
I hope you can keep his words close to you and that your next session is more successful and that you are able to feel more feelings while with him.
Thanks again, Monte.
Hugs
TN
But beyond that... I truly understand those blah sessions where you try so hard to find that connection and attunement and it just feels like something is "off" or you just can't make that connection. I realize too, that sometimes it's just them and the circumstances of their life or their work. My T and I just had a conversation where he told me that he knows that some days he is just not hitting things right. That maybe he didn't sleep well the night before, or he had a very difficult client situation come up, or he had a crazy morning with lots of phone calls and scheduling issues. He told me it's not me it's him and if I should ever be feeling that something is not right I should feel free to bring it into discussion. Remember that day when he was distracted, had to pee and didn't shake my hand? The whole session got off to a bad start and it just went downhill after that.
Another issue is their detachment to us in session. While I feel that both your T and mine do care for us and show it in many ways, perhaps it's not in that very emotionally visible way we are used to looking for. That they are really NOT detached at all but mentally working hard to do the best and right thing for us, yet we do not see it because it's more subtle. I just wrote in my post on "Hitting the Wall" that we figured out what I was missing from this relationship... and it is not really something I should have. I had it with oldT but it was not healthy for me.
I'm glad you wrote that raw email and that you got back such a lovely, caring and informative response from your T. And such a looong one LOL. My T never writes that much but I do love his emails and he always follows them up in session so he can expand upon the response and then to make sure I got what I needed. I think your T is trying to explain to you the work he is doing and why. He seems very genuine and accessible and honest with you. All good things. The hardest thing we have to remember is that they are human.
My T and I discussed yesterday how he feels about me and how I'm not really able to take it in on that verbal level and how I am looking for his showing emotion to "prove" his caring for me to me... and that is just not the best thing for me. He explained how he has tried to convey his deep respect and his affection for me. He used the word "affection" a number of times but I was so on edge and terrified of the discussion it was hard to take in. And we only have a short 8 month relationship. You and your T have so many years together. I think our fears are so encompassing there is not enough space left for us to take in the care, affection and kindness from our Ts. I need to work on freeing up that space for the good stuff.
I hope you can keep his words close to you and that your next session is more successful and that you are able to feel more feelings while with him.
Thanks again, Monte.
Hugs
TN
quote:Another issue is their detachment to us in session. While I feel that both your T and mine do care for us and show it in many ways, perhaps it's not in that very emotionally visible way we are used to looking for. That they are really NOT detached at all but mentally working hard to do the best and right thing for us, yet we do not see it because it's more subtle. I just wrote in my post on "Hitting the Wall" that we figured out what I was missing from this relationship... and it is not really something I should have. I had it with oldT but it was not healthy for me.
Something really wise here. I think it is an emotional boundary that good T's create on purpose. My SD had it, and it made it safe, and in fact it made his caring more real to me.
Ohhh, Interesting point, TN about looking for their emotion so we know they care. I was wondering if that's what it was. I wondered if when we were young our emotion matched our parents emotion and it FELT like caring when it really wasn't. It was just two people really out of control. Like maybe the angrier and more frustrated my Dad got with me, the more upset I got too but it felt like caring. And it wasn't really healthy. Does that make sense? And that's what we look for to connect?
I am thinking BB of something you said above and feeling bad because you really wanted to have that emotional connection with your T and you see Monte's T as offering to her, or helping her get there. I was wondering if they are always ready to connect with us, but they are just removing our emotional barriers before we can connect with them. This is related to what I wrote above about maybe wanting the intensity of the emotion we had as children but that it really wasn't healthy for us. (((BB))) I know this is so hard for you. I think he would have wanted it with you BB but I really don't think your T knew how to get you there BB.
Monte, sorry to hijack.
Liese
I am thinking BB of something you said above and feeling bad because you really wanted to have that emotional connection with your T and you see Monte's T as offering to her, or helping her get there. I was wondering if they are always ready to connect with us, but they are just removing our emotional barriers before we can connect with them. This is related to what I wrote above about maybe wanting the intensity of the emotion we had as children but that it really wasn't healthy for us. (((BB))) I know this is so hard for you. I think he would have wanted it with you BB but I really don't think your T knew how to get you there BB.
Monte, sorry to hijack.
Liese
I just have to respond, even though it feels like a hijack, but it *does* relate to the discussion that Monte's session has generated. (Monte's sessions always generate awesome discussion! ) Liese, and all- I think what I wanted from my T was *consistency* more than anything else, and strong emotional boundaries. I wanted to know where *he* was and where *I* was in the relationship. I always did better with him when he was a bit more removed like that, even though I found it painful and let it be known that it was painful! Then he would move, ever so slightly- but I picked up on it. Where it always broke down, was when his emotion, and reaction to me- entered into it. My SD has *absolutely *no* reaction to me, beyond the compassion he shows to everyone. He is deadpan. Completely. Except when he is *not.* And then- when he is not, it *means* something. And even then it is a controlled thing. But...his *care* leaks out to me from behind that strong emotional boundary- and I experience it and feel it, since it *means* something in the context of the boundary he creates. But it is tender, and *painful* to experience, because I want *more* But if I had more, it would be destroyed.
As a little metaphor of what I am talking about- ****religious trigger***
There is a priest I know, who *always* wears full garb (cassock and hatty thing, full beard) and who keeps himself very oriented towards God at *all* times, and in all conversation. That is his boundary. So- when we meet, and embrace in the traditional and very formal, very stylized greeting/blessing of my church- and then he takes an extra second to gently touch my cheek and smile kindly at me- *wow* it is powerful! And healing. But if he just came up to me in regular street cloths and put his arm around me and was like- "yo, how's the fam.." Which I might very much prefer- It wouldn't really mean *anything* and it might even be icky. So it is his strong *boundary* that creates the *context* for his ability to show that little extra care. I can trust the small little show of affection, of his noticing my pain- and feel it all the more because it comes from behind a "holy door." It is deeply respectful of me. It is deeply respectful of the child within me, because he does not become a child, himself, but is not afraid to stay "bigger" than me, and- it does not bother *him* to remain separate.
I think T's are supposed to be like that. and fathers are supposed to be like that. I would always want to become my best because he *believes* in me and keeps his boundary firmly in place. He is *there completely for me.* And he accepts me even when I am not at my best.
Hm- does this make any sense in the context of T boundaries?
) Liese, and all- I think what I wanted from my T was *consistency* more than anything else, and strong emotional boundaries. I wanted to know where *he* was and where *I* was in the relationship. I always did better with him when he was a bit more removed like that, even though I found it painful and let it be known that it was painful! Then he would move, ever so slightly- but I picked up on it. Where it always broke down, was when his emotion, and reaction to me- entered into it. My SD has *absolutely *no* reaction to me, beyond the compassion he shows to everyone. He is deadpan. Completely. Except when he is *not.* And then- when he is not, it *means* something. And even then it is a controlled thing. But...his *care* leaks out to me from behind that strong emotional boundary- and I experience it and feel it, since it *means* something in the context of the boundary he creates. But it is tender, and *painful* to experience, because I want *more* But if I had more, it would be destroyed. As a little metaphor of what I am talking about- ****religious trigger***
There is a priest I know, who *always* wears full garb (cassock and hatty thing, full beard) and who keeps himself very oriented towards God at *all* times, and in all conversation. That is his boundary. So- when we meet, and embrace in the traditional and very formal, very stylized greeting/blessing of my church- and then he takes an extra second to gently touch my cheek and smile kindly at me- *wow* it is powerful! And healing. But if he just came up to me in regular street cloths and put his arm around me and was like- "yo, how's the fam.." Which I might very much prefer- It wouldn't really mean *anything* and it might even be icky. So it is his strong *boundary* that creates the *context* for his ability to show that little extra care. I can trust the small little show of affection, of his noticing my pain- and feel it all the more because it comes from behind a "holy door." It is deeply respectful of me. It is deeply respectful of the child within me, because he does not become a child, himself, but is not afraid to stay "bigger" than me, and- it does not bother *him* to remain separate.
I think T's are supposed to be like that. and fathers are supposed to be like that. I would always want to become my best because he *believes* in me and keeps his boundary firmly in place. He is *there completely for me.* And he accepts me even when I am not at my best.
Hm- does this make any sense in the context of T boundaries?
Speaking of Ts and their emotional reactivity to us, I remember a time when my T got teary with me. I had just finished reading her the very first letter ever about how I felt she was afraid of me and my attachment, and that I felt she was avoiding the subject, and how do I get past THAT and actually do therapy. That was scary for me to see her tear up like that, hold my hands in hers, gaze into my eyes, and talk softly to me about how sorry she was, that her responsibility to me was to help and to heal, never harm, and she felt like she had harmed me. She wondered if I could ever forgive her. It was a very connecting moment for both of us and it stuck with me for the 4 days between that session and when she called me for our first 'check-in' call. Well, at the next session we discussed that previous session and I mentioned how strange that connection had felt and that it had been stuck in my mind for 4 days straight. I said it was weird to me to connect limbically like that and that it had been very intense, unfamiliar and kind of scary. She then told me that it had been for her an emotional, physical and spiritual connection. That was weird, but in reality that is what it was. She then asked me if it was TOO scary for me, and did I feel like I could experience it again, or was it too much? I told her I could experience it again, only it was very powerful and very unfamiliar/foreign to me. She mentioned something about that being because I suffered a lot of emotional deprivation (nurturance, empathy, protection/guidance) as a child and I'm still seeking out relationships where that same kind of distance/lack occurs because it's more familiar. Even though I long for a deep connection, I push it away out of fear.
Anyway, I have only 'connected' with my T like that twice since that experience, and neither experience was equally as powerful or intense. It's so hard when we desperately WANT the connection, but don't know how to create it, or secretly/unconsciously fear it at the same time. I often wonder how much my T wants to connect with me like that and if she is simply waiting for me to get on board. She mentioned recently how my habit of keeping 'secrets' from her (not revealing how I feel, how what she says or does affects me, etc.) is what is killing our relationship. But when I do reveal things I don't get the reaction I'm hoping for, either. I don't know if it's a ME thing, or a WE thing. It's such a hard thing to really understand and I wonder if we can ever KNOW. I guess eventually maybe, if we give it our all, but THAT is not so easily done, is it?
Monte, I know you were really disappointed in your session, but that email response was awesome. You are getting some great feedback from your T when you are willing to put yourself out there, real and raw. That email you sent took some real courage, and while I read that I thought to myself, "MTF, you really should get T's email so you can email her all the real raw stuff that you can never bring yourself to reveal to her one-on-one."
Seriously, that is the kind of stuff that gets things going in the relationship and helps us move in the direction we need to go, for one reason or another. I'm still in awe of the progress you're making. It just seems that each and every week you are making new strides with your therapy. So happy for you, friend. It inspires me to keep working at my own therapy and really digging deep for the courage to just put my stuff out there and deal with it. What is there to lose, really? I'm already not getting what I want, so what would it hurt to really just spill it all and get it over with? I'm going to work on it. I don't have another scheduled session for another 3 weeks, so in the meantime (five weeks total) I should be able to come up with plenty.
My T has been trying (maybe too hard sometimes
) to show me that she is human and makes mistakes, and I agree with you that it is sometimes the "intrinsic limits of who they are" that we struggle with, and for me anyway, who I 'think' my T should be and what I 'think' she should do, partly based on what I read here and find other peoples' Ts are doing with them. I have created this 'ideal' T, and of course my T is who she is, and I have to either accept her for that, or go elsewhere. Right now, I'm firmly planted and going nowhere. I have to also realize that I am not her only client, and in fact she has MANY, and to expect her to remember everything about me is to make her super-human, which she is not. It's all something I have to accept and realize we're both giving the best we can to the therapeutic relationship (well, I must admit I could give more, and I'm trying ).
So glad that you are having more positive experiences with your T, even if some of them are via email. Keep building on that relationship and trusting that he knows the basics of what you need, but it's up to you to let him in on the finer details. You're doing a beautiful job!!!
(((MONTE)))
MTF
Anyway, I have only 'connected' with my T like that twice since that experience, and neither experience was equally as powerful or intense. It's so hard when we desperately WANT the connection, but don't know how to create it, or secretly/unconsciously fear it at the same time. I often wonder how much my T wants to connect with me like that and if she is simply waiting for me to get on board. She mentioned recently how my habit of keeping 'secrets' from her (not revealing how I feel, how what she says or does affects me, etc.) is what is killing our relationship.
But when I do reveal things I don't get the reaction I'm hoping for, either. I don't know if it's a ME thing, or a WE thing. It's such a hard thing to really understand and I wonder if we can ever KNOW. I guess eventually maybe, if we give it our all, but THAT is not so easily done, is it?Monte, I know you were really disappointed in your session, but that email response was awesome. You are getting some great feedback from your T when you are willing to put yourself out there, real and raw. That email you sent took some real courage, and while I read that I thought to myself, "MTF, you really should get T's email so you can email her all the real raw stuff that you can never bring yourself to reveal to her one-on-one."
Seriously, that is the kind of stuff that gets things going in the relationship and helps us move in the direction we need to go, for one reason or another. I'm still in awe of the progress you're making. It just seems that each and every week you are making new strides with your therapy. So happy for you, friend. It inspires me to keep working at my own therapy and really digging deep for the courage to just put my stuff out there and deal with it. What is there to lose, really? I'm already not getting what I want, so what would it hurt to really just spill it all and get it over with? I'm going to work on it. I don't have another scheduled session for another 3 weeks, so in the meantime (five weeks total) I should be able to come up with plenty. quote:it has occurred to me...maybe sometimes it is the intrinsic limits of who they are that we bump into, not just their professional boundaries. They are people before they are therapists, right? I feel like I am seeing my T more as an imperfect human being, and I think that is his intention. I don’t know if that would be frowned upon, but I find it helpful to recognize. When he forgets things that are significant or he misinterprets something that to me is blatantly obvious, it doesn’t have to mean he is indifferent or cold. Just a bit thick,
My T has been trying (maybe too hard sometimes
) to show me that she is human and makes mistakes, and I agree with you that it is sometimes the "intrinsic limits of who they are" that we struggle with, and for me anyway, who I 'think' my T should be and what I 'think' she should do, partly based on what I read here and find other peoples' Ts are doing with them. I have created this 'ideal' T, and of course my T is who she is, and I have to either accept her for that, or go elsewhere. Right now, I'm firmly planted and going nowhere. I have to also realize that I am not her only client, and in fact she has MANY, and to expect her to remember everything about me is to make her super-human, which she is not. It's all something I have to accept and realize we're both giving the best we can to the therapeutic relationship (well, I must admit I could give more, and I'm trying ).So glad that you are having more positive experiences with your T, even if some of them are via email.
Keep building on that relationship and trusting that he knows the basics of what you need, but it's up to you to let him in on the finer details. You're doing a beautiful job!!! (((MONTE)))
MTF
Monte,
I can totally relate to your T sessions.I have so many times just wanted to run out of my T room but can't do it so I withdraw become quiet. I won't look at my T but I hear everything that is said to me. My T has told me too that T are only human and make mistakes too. I have had lots of miscommunications with mine,some are totally my fault and others my T has apologized for. I think when a T says they are sorry it does make one realize that they are not perfect either.
I was thrilled to read that you bring "show and tell" items to your T. I have done that too and my T I think comes to expect me bring something to my session.
Payers and thanks,
LW
I can totally relate to your T sessions.I have so many times just wanted to run out of my T room but can't do it so I withdraw become quiet. I won't look at my T but I hear everything that is said to me. My T has told me too that T are only human and make mistakes too. I have had lots of miscommunications with mine,some are totally my fault and others my T has apologized for. I think when a T says they are sorry it does make one realize that they are not perfect either.
I was thrilled to read that you bring "show and tell" items to your T.
I have done that too and my T I think comes to expect me bring something to my session.Payers and thanks,
LW
((((((((((Monte))))))))))
I am SO sorry...really torqued at that receptionist...and also at your T, for even thinking that he had to "check" your "story"...grrrr.
I don't know what else to say...many hugs to you though...
Love,
SG
I am SO sorry...really torqued at that receptionist...and also at your T, for even thinking that he had to "check" your "story"...grrrr.
I don't know what else to say...many hugs to you though...Love,
SG
Monte!!! ARRRRRRRG!!!!! WTF is your T thinking? He can't make mistakes right now. It's too crucial. (I know he will but- arrrrg!)
I'm so cheesed off at that receptionist...honestly, these people should get specail training...don't they realize how important those appointments are? Mont, it is *not* silly for you to be this cheesed off..it really isn't. The thing is that your appointments really are the most crucial thing going on for you, because you simply need and want to find healing as the most important goal in your life right now, and that your T is the most crucial person in that mix ato find the healing you seek. Of course it is awful. Of course it is a big deal. It's not like a dentist appointment got double booked or something sheesh. I hate how they act all "no big deal" about it. Honestly, don't they realize how much pain we are in when we come to them to find a bit of relief. And you prepared so much, gosh. He should have moved things around to accomodate you and fit you in, this week Monte. He really should, since it was his mistake.arg these T's and their...t-ness.
Monte, I am so osrry, but I can't help laughing at some of your descriptions. I love how you are able to find humor even in the most painful situations.
I wish you had...only then you would've seen there was no one in there, and been even madder!
I'm so sorry this happened, and that now that you have to wait so long for next appointment. It truly sucks, Monte.
BB
I'm so cheesed off at that receptionist...honestly, these people should get specail training...don't they realize how important those appointments are? Mont, it is *not* silly for you to be this cheesed off..it really isn't. The thing is that your appointments really are the most crucial thing going on for you, because you simply need and want to find healing as the most important goal in your life right now, and that your T is the most crucial person in that mix ato find the healing you seek. Of course it is awful. Of course it is a big deal. It's not like a dentist appointment got double booked or something sheesh. I hate how they act all "no big deal" about it. Honestly, don't they realize how much pain we are in when we come to them to find a bit of relief. And you prepared so much, gosh. He should have moved things around to accomodate you and fit you in, this week Monte. He really should, since it was his mistake.arg these T's and their...t-ness.
Monte, I am so osrry, but I can't help laughing at some of your descriptions. I love how you are able to find humor even in the most painful situations.
quote:I drive past the office window. I feel like stopping and getting out and squashing my face against the window and blowing my cheeks out and rapping loudly on the glass to startle the shit out of the fucker that has my appointment.
I wish you had...only then you would've seen there was no one in there, and been even madder!
I'm so sorry this happened, and that now that you have to wait so long for next appointment. It truly sucks, Monte.
BB
Monte,
I am soooo sorry that this happened. I'm hoping that your T will believe your version of events and see through his receptionist's attempt to cover her ass.
It is so frustrating when you being to question your own memory of events....that sort of thing can make a person feel "crazy". I hope you are able to stand firm in your recollection of events and not allow that self-doubt to kick in.
I am soooo sorry that this happened. I'm hoping that your T will believe your version of events and see through his receptionist's attempt to cover her ass.
It is so frustrating when you being to question your own memory of events....that sort of thing can make a person feel "crazy". I hope you are able to stand firm in your recollection of events and not allow that self-doubt to kick in.
(((((Monte))))) I'm so sorry. I would be in total meltdown if that happened to me. I hope there are cancellations and you guys can work through this.
I hope there are cancellations and you guys can work through this.
((((MONTE)))) That receptionist sounds like an idiot. Sorry. I shouldn't be badmouthing people. I'm just so sorry that happened to you. I hope your T can fit you in next week.
(((HUGS)))
Liese
(((HUGS)))
Liese
(((Monte)))
The receptionist sounds like SHE needs some major therapy!
I am so sorry it didn't work out the way I wish it would have. I just now read this entire thread, and know it hasn't been easy for you with all of this - I hate that kind of feeling
I hope it works for you to see him sooner rather than later.
(((Monte)))
The receptionist sounds like SHE needs some major therapy!
I am so sorry it didn't work out the way I wish it would have. I just now read this entire thread, and know it hasn't been easy for you with all of this - I hate that kind of feeling
I hope it works for you to see him sooner rather than later.
(((Monte)))
(((((MONTE))))))
The whole episode sounds incredibly scary. I'm amazed that you decided to keep pushing forward even though your normal response would be to run. So glad he squeezed you in Monte. I am guessing you will find that the embarrassment will wear off as soon as you see him and you see that he is treating you with the same respect and care he always has. That's what happens to me. T treats me the same regardless of what happens between us or how I react. It makes it feel safe to express the scarier stuff.
Glad your heart rate is back to normal.
Liese
The whole episode sounds incredibly scary. I'm amazed that you decided to keep pushing forward even though your normal response would be to run. So glad he squeezed you in Monte. I am guessing you will find that the embarrassment will wear off as soon as you see him and you see that he is treating you with the same respect and care he always has.
That's what happens to me. T treats me the same regardless of what happens between us or how I react. It makes it feel safe to express the scarier stuff.Glad your heart rate is back to normal.
Liese
Good for you, Monte!! I'm so glad you emailed him about this and are putting it out there as it happens so he can help you and work with you (when you need it most, not after the fact). I'm glad you're not quitting this time and are working toward what you really need in order to get past this. You are pushing through the 'stuckness' of times gone by and moving forward in an incredibly inspiring way. WAY TO GO!!!
(((Monte)))
Sorry about the hospitalization again. That is scary. I'm glad you're okay. Take care!
MTF
I'm so glad you emailed him about this and are putting it out there as it happens so he can help you and work with you (when you need it most, not after the fact). I'm glad you're not quitting this time and are working toward what you really need in order to get past this. You are pushing through the 'stuckness' of times gone by and moving forward in an incredibly inspiring way. WAY TO GO!!! (((Monte)))
Sorry about the hospitalization again. That is scary. I'm glad you're okay. Take care!
MTF
Oh gosh, Monte, how scary that all sounds. I'm so sorry your anxiety ramped up to the point of you passing out and having to rush to the ER. I'm glad you are okay now.
I do love it that when feeling better you emailed your T all your feelings... even telling him that you want to quit (but not really). I am also thrilled to hear that your T stepped up to the plate and offered you that Monday appointment. Although I can see (apart from screwing up badly your appointment time last time) how your T has steadily been stepping up to better help you.
And... please give yourself a ton of credit for how you handled all of this. I think your reactions and responses have shown enormous growth and commitment to healing and to working very hard in therapy. I am sure that your T is really proud of you.
I hope your Monday session goes well and that you are able to address all that you need to. Please keep us posted on how things are going.
TN
I do love it that when feeling better you emailed your T all your feelings... even telling him that you want to quit (but not really). I am also thrilled to hear that your T stepped up to the plate and offered you that Monday appointment. Although I can see (apart from screwing up badly your appointment time last time) how your T has steadily been stepping up to better help you.
And... please give yourself a ton of credit for how you handled all of this. I think your reactions and responses have shown enormous growth and commitment to healing and to working very hard in therapy. I am sure that your T is really proud of you.
I hope your Monday session goes well and that you are able to address all that you need to. Please keep us posted on how things are going.
TN
((((((Monte))))))
So scary! I'm relieved that you are ok, now, but gosh, Monte, it is really taking a toll on you. I'm so glad that T said that he would not address it by email but wanted you to come in. What a blessing. Slwoly, you will be able to sort this out.
Prayers, Monte,
BB
So scary! I'm relieved that you are ok, now, but gosh, Monte, it is really taking a toll on you. I'm so glad that T said that he would not address it by email but wanted you to come in. What a blessing. Slwoly, you will be able to sort this out.
Prayers, Monte,
BB
(((Monte))) That sounds so overwhelming and frightening. I'm glad you were able to talk to your T and he is making time for you...and that you're are facing it, not running away. Please keep updating with how your session goes.
((((MONTE))))
Sorry to beat up on the receptionist. She was only doing her job, I guess. I know you are far from where I am and it may already be Monday there. If so, good luck with your session. Will be thinking of you and hoping things go well.
Liese
Sorry to beat up on the receptionist. She was only doing her job, I guess. I know you are far from where I am and it may already be Monday there. If so, good luck with your session. Will be thinking of you and hoping things go well.
Liese
((((MONTE))))
Monte thank you for sharing that. It was beautiful to read and you describe the emotions so well that I could FEEL them too. Your T is very much like mine except he allows more touch and closeness. But maybe with time I will get there too. Get to safe touch within the hour and not just when I'm leaving him and get a pat and handshake.
I see how much progress you have made and I think your T is so excited. My T also talks about the little me and how we need to integrate her and make her know she is safe in the meantime. He very much recognizes this part and treats her gently.
We are so fortunate Monte to have these wonderful Ts in our lives.
Many
TN
I see how much progress you have made and I think your T is so excited. My T also talks about the little me and how we need to integrate her and make her know she is safe in the meantime. He very much recognizes this part and treats her gently.
We are so fortunate Monte to have these wonderful Ts in our lives.
Many
TN
Monte,
Every time I read your posts lately I can actually feel emotion surging through me as I read about the ways you and your T are working toward connection. I guess it's because I can relate so much to the need for that deep connection with my own T, and the tug-o-war between wanting it desperately, and fearing it greatly. I am so touched by the way your T is working on connecting with you, and so impressed with how you are staying with it and pushing your way forward toward that connection with him.
This is really the hard part, though, isn't it? Well, for me anyway. I can understand why you are having a hard time right now. This is all so emotionally 'messy' and so hard to keep straight in our head when our heart wants something else.
None of that is corny. If it is, then I am FULL of corn!! I can't tell you how many times I have had similar feelings and surges of emotion, but have never acted on them. I hope that you will get to where you can ask for what you feel you need from your T, and be met in the way that will be most helpful to your healing.
You are getting so close. It's coming, Monte. Keep working hard like you have been doing and it will happen.
Good luck with the emails. Sounds tough, but I'm sure you'll do great. And best of luck at your next session when you discuss these things.
(((Monte)))
MTF
quote:He said my inner child was looking for his love and care and that this need is valid and ok...he said it so openly but matter-of-factly. It was the most open acknowledgment of my feelings toward him that has ever been verbalized there and I didn’t feel too stupid about it. His tone was strange...quietly excited, urgent, about the connections he was trying to get me to make and the need for me to grab onto the pain our relationship causes me and go with it, let it out, but also connect it to its original source.
Every time I read your posts lately I can actually feel emotion surging through me as I read about the ways you and your T are working toward connection. I guess it's because I can relate so much to the need for that deep connection with my own T, and the tug-o-war between wanting it desperately, and fearing it greatly. I am so touched by the way your T is working on connecting with you, and so impressed with how you are staying with it and pushing your way forward toward that connection with him.
quote:He suggested though, that I not seek to completely discard my outer adult me in this process, but to utilize its rationality to keep myself from being flooded by emotion.
This is really the hard part, though, isn't it?
Well, for me anyway. I can understand why you are having a hard time right now. This is all so emotionally 'messy' and so hard to keep straight in our head when our heart wants something else.quote:He stayed close the whole time and at one point moved in so close I got this surge of emotion from within, but felt safe with it. I wanted to ask him for a hug and he was within reach and I knew he would allow it, but I couldn’t do it. As he was holding my email and reading and responding, my hands were on my knees and very near his hands as they were moving. I was watching his hands and wanted to hold his hand while we talked, but couldn’t ask. A few times he placed his hand on my arm, and each time that small part would surge upward toward expression. Sorry if such a description is a bit corny
None of that is corny. If it is, then I am FULL of corn!!
I can't tell you how many times I have had similar feelings and surges of emotion, but have never acted on them. I hope that you will get to where you can ask for what you feel you need from your T, and be met in the way that will be most helpful to your healing.quote:I have never felt emotion pulling me toward him when with him, only when away from him, but I was sitting there feeling pain in a way much like wires connecting and sparking intermittently, and wanting him to keep pushing for full connection.
You are getting so close. It's coming, Monte. Keep working hard like you have been doing and it will happen.
Good luck with the emails. Sounds tough, but I'm sure you'll do great. And best of luck at your next session when you discuss these things.
(((Monte)))
MTF
((((MONTE))))
I can see why the session would be difficult and that you might be quite spent afterwards. Thanks for sharing. Always good work Monte. Hard, but good.
Liese
I can see why the session would be difficult and that you might be quite spent afterwards. Thanks for sharing. Always good work Monte. Hard, but good.
Liese
Monte it is amazing to watch you walk into places you insisted for so long you were not capable of going. You're courage is inspiring, thank you for so generously sharing your journey with us.
Go Monte!
AG
Go Monte!
AG
Monte,
I'm sorry I've been remiss at keeping up with threads and didn't realize everything that had transpired recently. I'm really sorry that the missed session caused so much triggering (I can totally understand why!) and the subsequent dissecting of what happened was so stressful. I too could feel the emotion in your description of your latest session and I'm so impressed by the work that you and your T are doing together. Thank you so much for sharing.
I'm sorry I've been remiss at keeping up with threads and didn't realize everything that had transpired recently. I'm really sorry that the missed session caused so much triggering (I can totally understand why!) and the subsequent dissecting of what happened was so stressful. I too could feel the emotion in your description of your latest session and I'm so impressed by the work that you and your T are doing together. Thank you so much for sharing.
What a beautiful read. What a great, accepting marvelous T you have. I'm inspired by the work you are doing in therapy. And I'm really really grateful that you are willing to share it with us.
Hugs,
BB
And I'm really really grateful that you are willing to share it with us. Hugs,
BB
((( Monte )))
Boy do I get the whole POOF thing! I realized the other day that for me I infinitely prefer wanting and not getting, than getting a little bit and then losing it. So I can relate very much to your fears here. And want to say that you are being INCREDIBLY courageous, to have these fears and to keep going forward knowing what you fear. (So much easier sometimes if we didn't actually know what we were afraid of.)
Sending you lots of support Monte
LL
Boy do I get the whole POOF thing! I realized the other day that for me I infinitely prefer wanting and not getting, than getting a little bit and then losing it.
So I can relate very much to your fears here. And want to say that you are being INCREDIBLY courageous, to have these fears and to keep going forward knowing what you fear. (So much easier sometimes if we didn't actually know what we were afraid of.) Sending you lots of support Monte
LL
quote:Boy do I get the whole POOF thing! I realized the other day that for me I infinitely prefer wanting and not getting, than getting a little bit and then losing it.
Hey LL... could this fear be blocking your attachment to any T? Maybe you don't really want to find the T for you because then you would really have something to lose? I may be very wrong and if so, please disregard. But I think that fear is very common. I know I keep telling my T that I'm afraid he will disappear... it will all go poof and be gone. But yet I keep going and keep moving closer. I can only hazard a guess that my need for closeness and attachment can outweigh the fear of losing it. Or I'm just crazy!
Hugs
TN
Lol TN you're the furthest from crazy that I can think of
You got a good point there, that the POOF fear may very well be getting in the way of my attaching. I guess the sad bit is that I don't know what it's like to feel attached, and actually have no desire whatsoever to do so I sort of see it like, getting all the emotional things I need, without my having to GIVE anything in exchange (having spent my life feeling like I'm doing all the giving and getting bugger all in return, long story...) So I'd very much like to get the goodies, without having to 'pay' for them, because that invalidates the getting, if that makes sense. Though if a T is good enough to be able to get through to me that he really is freely giving the things I need, I suspect the ice will thaw and all my old potential attachment feelings will come flooding out. So far though, there isn't the slightest stirring of anything positive, fear or no fear. Also for me, the POOF fear relates directly to experiencing being given the odd crumb, which is worse than getting nothing at all (almost like being cruelly teased, here LL have a taste of what it could be like to get your needs met hahahahahaha gotcha, now it's going to be whisked away...
Actually I wonder Monte, if that's not what's happened with you and your T, that suddenly it finally got through to you that he really is there for you and that's made it so much safer to let your attachment feelings poke their heads above the parapet? Although if I remember correctly you were pretty attached to your T from a looooong time ago.
Anyway I hope Monte that you are feeling a bit more confident about things with your T today (on the assumption that all feelings, fear included, recede by themselves over time.)
LL
You got a good point there, that the POOF fear may very well be getting in the way of my attaching. I guess the sad bit is that I don't know what it's like to feel attached, and actually have no desire whatsoever to do so
I sort of see it like, getting all the emotional things I need, without my having to GIVE anything in exchange (having spent my life feeling like I'm doing all the giving and getting bugger all in return, long story...) So I'd very much like to get the goodies, without having to 'pay' for them, because that invalidates the getting, if that makes sense. Though if a T is good enough to be able to get through to me that he really is freely giving the things I need, I suspect the ice will thaw and all my old potential attachment feelings will come flooding out. So far though, there isn't the slightest stirring of anything positive, fear or no fear. Also for me, the POOF fear relates directly to experiencing being given the odd crumb, which is worse than getting nothing at all (almost like being cruelly teased, here LL have a taste of what it could be like to get your needs met hahahahahaha gotcha, now it's going to be whisked away... Actually I wonder Monte, if that's not what's happened with you and your T, that suddenly it finally got through to you that he really is there for you and that's made it so much safer to let your attachment feelings poke their heads above the parapet? Although if I remember correctly you were pretty attached to your T from a looooong time ago.
Anyway I hope Monte that you are feeling a bit more confident about things with your T today (on the assumption that all feelings, fear included, recede by themselves over time.)
LL