turtle, I cried all the time when I first saw my current T. Part of it was just the shock of having to see a T that was not oldT. I cried in and out of session. I told my T that I hated his office, I hated that he didn't have a therapy dog, I hated that he was not oldT. He took it all in stride, bless his heart. I couldn't imagine in my wildest dreams being able to forge a relationship with him. There was no connection at all. I was so numb with grief I could not feel anything but the grief. It was hard because he didn't know me like oldT did. I had to tell him stuff. I didn't know how to move forward with him because I couldn't FEEL anything but grief and sadness. But I kept going and we kept building the relationship and he helped me grieve and told me all the nice things he noticed about me. I just listened with some weird remoteness. He seemed SO far away.

Gradually, I came to attach to him and care very much for him because he protected and cared for me. He was consistent and always there. I know it was hard for him because I was in such bad shape. Everything triggered me.

Now.... well I am so comfortable with him I can discuss Gyn issues with him and it's fine. Knowing that he is comfy with it makes it much easier for me. One time I burst into laughter while talking with him telling him that I could not believe we were having this conversation.

It's hard to tell after one meeting if he is a good T or not. Especially when you are so traumatized and in grief over the loss of your other T. It takes time. Since you don't have a lot of options commit to a certain amount of time with him before deciding. I gave myself 3 months to decide if I wanted to stay. By then I knew there was a great potential that we could attach and do some good work together.

I'm sorry this is so painful for you.

Hugs
TN

Thank you RT and TN

The bad feelings are just getting worse. The only reason I consider going back to him is he is the only T I can find right now and he is 3 blocks from where i work so it's convenient. Neither of those reasons seem like good ones to me. I am in DBT and I am supposed fill out these cards every week. i was enthusiastic about it with old T. This one it's worse than apathy. I mean I just do not care. It's a chore to even think of sharing or doing anythign with him. I just don't think I can do this. I really don't. I think I may be done with therapy. I really do. Maybe it's for the better. If I never went back and saw him again I wouldn't bat an eye.

I think TN it is more than just grief over my old T. It's that he is a male. It feels like my childhood when I my mom forced me on my dad. She's gone and now all I have left is this thing in front of me. This thing I can't relate to nor want to relate to. This thing that I couldn't care less about.

I know my words are awful. I know that. But clearly I have a hard time with men and I am not so sure this is a good idea right now to see him. He called me today and told me what he was going to do all weekend. Mow the lawn, go to the cabin and go to the state fair concert. I wondered why he was telling me this. I mean I am glad he's having a good life but why tell me about it? I didn't get it at all..

(((Turtle))) just in your last two posts its obvious that a male therapist is bringing to the forefront a lot of beliefs about men. The fact that you have so many issues with men, means that at SOME point in your healing you may wish to work with a male therapist if for no other reason then that you could stop avoiding half of the human race. But it may be that facing all those issues right now on top of handling the abandonment may be too much, too fast for you to face. When we take on too much, we run the risk of re-traumatizing ourselves. But only you can decide whether its too much right now. Or if he's a "good enough" fit. Whatever you decide to do: continue, quit, look for another therapist, it is your right to choose, and will be the right decision for you, right now. Healing is not very often a linear path.

As for providing his whereabouts, he may be trying to provide object constancy by letting you knw where he is. Earlier in our work, my T would often give me details about his vacations because I would struggle so much with him being away. Knowing when he was leaving town, and getting back, and where he was helped me hang on to a sense of connection. These days, being more secure, not so much information.

AG I was going to PM you but that doesn't look like an option. You make a lot of good points. I get along with men well in work situations. I even have a few male friends but to work with one so closely as I would in therapy is more than I can ask of myself. I pretty much lost it on him. Told him what I thought of him and was incredibly insulting to him. I told him I would not come back to see him again and not to call me unless he has a referral. We'll see what happens. I am worried that my therapy days are over. This is a very complicated situation and I can't even begin to write it all out here. Basically I feel even further betrayal by my old T for her having a hand in me seeing this male therapist. She and her little group actually thought this would be helpful to me. She obviously never listened to me or believed me. My best friend said she was not surprised in the least that it went this way and thought it was a waste of time from the start.

I just have to calm down.

Thank you (((Muff))) yeah I feel like an ally cat with all the battle scars. I told him that I had been feeling more self injurious since I started DBT. that prior to dbt I had not had any kind of self harm in over 2 decades. To that he texted me and said "you referenced SIB so that means the 24 hour rule is in effect. Do your skills, call crisis line or go to ER. I will call you Tuesday" This was last night. Firstly I didn't know what SIB meant. Figured out it means self injurious behavior. Secondly I didn't know what the 24 hour rule was. So I look that up. Basically in dbt if you call your T after you have self harmed they can't give you support for 24 hours. No phone calls for 24 hours. This puzzled me because I did not self harm. I told him that dbt had increased that urge to self harm where it had not been there before. So I texted him back and said "I couldn't care less, ass" Then he texted and said "No texting" I texted back and said "Whatever have a nice weekend dick" lol I can't believe I said that. Then I got up this morning and texted him and said basically that I was terminating with him and that I would not come and see him again and I asked him not to call me unless he has references to give me. That was the extent of it. Honestly it felt like a HUGE relief.

Thank you again Muff. Your words brought tears to my eyes. Your advice is sound. I will take it and i will find proper help. I don't need these people dragging me down.

((Muff))

Wow - he sounds like a jerk. I hope your next one is better than this one.

Just want to chime in that I think your decision to move on was a good one. He sounds like a "by the book" guy who is so busy following his methodology he didn't bother to really listen to you and distinguish between wanting to SI and actually SIing. Kinda happy you told him off. Muff was right, trust yourself and find someone who feels right.

And I don't think it was a waste of time because now you know that you are capable of standing up for yourself, recognizing someone who isn't good for you and taking care of yourself by finding another therapist. All important things. hang in there, I can't imagine how draining this all must be.

AG

It is so tough not to buy into the idea that professionals always know what's best for us. I once let one GP get away with some absolutely shocking behaviour when I was seeking help, because figured if he was treating me in that way I must somehow deserve it cause he was the expert. Big kudos for recognising what you can and cannot do right now.

T kind of shot himself in the foot here by making assumptions that you knew all about the 'rules'. Really it's kind of a good idea to check out what a new client knows and understands about the therapeutic process before enforcing boundaries.

I'm sorry it happened the way it did, but I too think you made the right decision not to see this guy.

Your post really resonated with me today and shook me up a bit and I emailed my T. This is a good thing, so don't feel bad about that. IT confirmed to me that DBT isn't for me and also confirmed that this T is not for you!!!

I am proud of you for not accepting what he said. I have been with medical people who have stuffed me around and done the wrong thing and now I have a pathological fear of medical ppl to the point of not seeking medical help when I really need it, so I am so proud and envious of your strength and self resolve.

I learnt a lot from you today.

Somedays.

(((turtle))) Sorry this T ended up being such a poor fit and so clueless about what you were trying to communicate. I hope you can take heart from the stories of others like TN and SD who have been able to find much better Ts in the wake of abandonment. I wish I knew what to say, but wanted to send lots of hugs.

Good for you telling him off. He was treating you like he was the third grade teacher and you the student. I HATE when adults do that to other adults, I even HATE it when adults do it to teenagers. Really I think it's just about him being lazy. My goodness, he hardly knows you, despite what the other T told him. There are better ones out there turtle. Be persistent. Good luck.

Stoppers _ Yes he seems like a jerk to me too.

AG- Got your PM. I didn't think you were blocking me or anything. Pretty much figured it was a setting sort of thing from when you had to turn it off for a while. No worries. Yes I am terribly drained. Feeling like now I have to take a break from finding a new T because this is just bringing me down worse. This is unfortunate because it is the 2 year anniversary of my mom's death and I have to say this is a big reason why I am seeking help in the first place! Thank you so much for your support.

Mallard - I know exactly what you mean. After all they are the professionals, maybe they know more about me than I know about me. In this case my gut could not be ignored. It was screaming to get away from this man. And I agree on him shooting himself in the foot by not explaining these odd rules up front before implementing them.

Somedays - Man I hear ya. Have you tried DBT yet? I mean I know it really helps some people. I don't know that I find it helpful. To me it is condescending and treats me like I am really stupid. Well actually the skills group is good. The individual therapy is where I feel robbed because I want to talk about how I am feeling and you know maybe get out some of this grief. I don't want to be a rat in a lab being operantly trained. or whatever the words are. That's it. I do not want to be trained.

Hollow - I hope I find the right T and when I do I hope she does see what happened to me as difficult because it certainly has been.

yakusoku- I know! I have to say that I am losing my sense of hope here. But I think if I get out of this consultation group I may have a better chance of finding help.

Becca - I could not have said it better. It is like I am being treated like a small child. And you know this does not bring out the best in me. Not by any means. It seems to me that all CBT (cognative behavioral therapy) is sort of like that. It is more about behavior and thoughts than feelings. Right now I have a ton of grief to plod through and I don't want to be a rat on an electric grid.

UPDATE:

Warning intense arrogance ahead.

So Tuesday afternoon the T I saw calls me. I see he has called and left a message. I'm thinking (HOPING) he's left some referrals. NOPE! What does he say

"I am still willing to work with you but you have to commit to some things before I would agree to it. You'd have to commit to no self harm throughout therapy. You'd have to commit to not insult me or call me names like you did on the weekend. You'd have to commit to working on dbt with me. I will still work with you if you commit to these things. I know I can help you. We can do some good work together" (in a nut shell that's what he said)

My freaking jaw dropped. lol. He's still WILLING to work with me. Did he not get the memo that I didn't want him to call me back unless he had referrals? I called him back and left a message. I said "I do NOT want to work with you. Unless you have referrals for me please do not call me again."

Ugh.... ARGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH

Hi Turtle,
I've not been around much and am just catching up on stuff.
I wanted to express my admiration that despite the enormous upheavals you are experiencing and all the difficulties you're having, you are really clear about what you want and don't want and what you need right now. I hope you can find it soon, but in the meantime, sending supportive vibes through the ether and wishing you well.
Iris x

Thank you Iris,

Now suddenly I am having panic attacks. I am so scared because I really do need to see a therapist and I really am not finding a new one. I am scared....

Turtle, is there anyone outside of your oldT's consultation group you can ask for referrals? It seems like this last one did want to help you, but his grasp of how to apply DBT really did not leave me too impressed with him.

quote:

I know I can help you.

This bothered me. It is one thing holding on to hope for a client - sometimes this is really important when a client doesn't have any of their own. But I have big problems with T's saying definitive stuff like this. As if anyone can possibly tell from one meeting what may or may not happen.

I just wrote a lot more of very sarcastic vitriol but realised that I probably am not helping as this very serious and painful for you so I will not decorate the screen with what I wanted to write.

I am so sorry you are struggling right now. I hope you are able to find someone.

Hi BLT,

Well the therapist I saw before the one who dumped me still talks to me sometimes yet she was not a wealth of information on referrals. We just talked on the phone for an hour the other night. I miss her but I can't go back to her. I left her because she was becoming a friend and would not allow me to talk about my past which is a huge issue for me. Yeah maybe he wanted to help. That could be. But given my situation he was rather forward with the whole deal.

Mallard you don't have to censor what you have to say. I probably would have found it supportive. I am feeling that this dbt stuff is not helping me. I also agree strongly about the statement that he knows he can help me. Like he has me all figured out. I totally agree with what you said.

Very good news!!


The T I was seeing before the one who dumped me this summer is going to help me find a psychoanalytical therapist instead of a dbt therapist. She also agrees that this would be best for me!!! I cried so hard when she told me she would help me. It's a God send. She said she would get back to me in a few days

{{Turtle}}

Okay, well, let's just say that I really wondered at the size of ego required to be able to leave someone a voicemail stating that you know you can help them, while on the other hand dictating terms (terms in a voicemail? Really?)

I don't like to diss Ts because I recognise every therapeutic approach is different and some Ts I couldn't work with could end up working well for others. But reading this made me pretty angry for you. I suppose at best his voicemail could be considered reaching out but I suspect his seeming unwillingness to look at his own contribution to what went down between you spells trouble - it seems that working in a far more collaborative way is what you may be after. I think your gut has it right!

I think it made me recognise my own need for a T to respect my autonomy and decision making processes too, which is partly why I felt so annoyed!

Edited to add: That's great news! I am really pleased you are going to get some support to find a new T.

((turtle)) awesome!! I'm glad you're going to get a chance to try a new type of therapy I hope it works better for you and I'm so glad she is helping you.

(((Turtle))) good to hear!! Even better to hear you have some hope.

turtle I hope you find someone knowledgeable and who you feel comfortable working with. Let us know how it goes.

TN

Woo-hoo, yippie, yea!

((turtle))
im happy to hear that! sorry i havent been around much but also wanted to say i think you've been doing great.

puppet

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