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Welcome Echo!
I agree with HB. I don't think his reaction falls within the boundaries at all either. I'd be confused, too, if I were you, and my imagination would run out of control.
If it were me I would probably ask him for clarification, and if I still thought he was more interested than he should be, I would definitely end therapy with him and walk away.
OW
I agree with HB. I don't think his reaction falls within the boundaries at all either. I'd be confused, too, if I were you, and my imagination would run out of control.
If it were me I would probably ask him for clarification, and if I still thought he was more interested than he should be, I would definitely end therapy with him and walk away.
OW
For the record, this is the thing I had a problem with him saying:
That sounds an awful lot like flirting to me. The other things could be explained away I think.
And, I'm not the type to let things go, so I would probably have to talk to him about it or I would always wonder, and I hate wondering.
Maybe he really was being honest with you, and said he wasn't hitting on you because he, too, knows that it can't happen.
OW
quote:and that his heart skips a beat when I arrive
That sounds an awful lot like flirting to me. The other things could be explained away I think.
And, I'm not the type to let things go, so I would probably have to talk to him about it or I would always wonder, and I hate wondering.
Maybe he really was being honest with you, and said he wasn't hitting on you because he, too, knows that it can't happen.
OW
Hi Echo and welcome to the forum, I think you've found a good place to ask these questions. I have two strong conflicting reactions to what you're saying.
On one hand, as unspeakably painful as it can be to deal with these feelings, knowing they can't be fulfilled (if you read some of my older posts you'll know I speak from experience. I do not take lightly the difficulty of what I'm talking about) I also think it's an incredible catalyst for healing. It has been through exploring and talking about my feelings about my T (which in my case has included my erotic attraction, my dependency, my intense fear of being hurt or abandoned, my desire to have him be my father, my anger at the boundaries, etc etc) that has enabled me to access so many long buried feelings and beliefs and allowed me to make the changes neccesary to live a more fulfilling life.
I don't know if you know anything about attachment theory but the real breakthrough that happened for me was once I expressed my attraction to my T I kept looking for reasons to leave (I even tried going to another T). We realized that as consciously as I longed for love and closeness, moving closer to someone terrified me and triggered an extremely strong ( and infinitely creative) impulse to leave. I have what is known as a disorganized attachment style which was the result of being abused by my dad. Our instinct and drive is to go toward our attachment figure when we need comfort, but when that person is the source of the pain we learn that moving closer gets us hurt. It's a hellish dilemma, one my T calls "the bind." We need to move closer to get our needs met but moving closer gets us hurt.
I know nothing about your background so this could be way off base but you may want to consider if any of this could be a factor in wanting to leave.
All that said, here's my other reaction. Transference has an enormous potential for healing; but if the T doesn't maintain good boundaries the client can be really re-traumatized and severely hurt. One of the reasons that I have been able to be so open with my T is that he made it clear from the very beginning that NOTHING would happen; he had the boundaries. All of my feelings were acceptable and could be discussed and none of them would threaten my relationship with him. But our relationship always needed to be only about my needs so even if he had any feelings for me ( beyond his care for my well-being as my therapist) those would never be expressed because those would be about his needs.
The only time a T should self-disclose is if it is in the client's best interest. Your T's reaction (his talking about his feelings for you and finding you attractive) seemed to be about him and not about you. I must be honest and tell you that your description sent up some red flags for me and I think it's really good that you are looking at this; it's impotant for you to protect yourself.
So, bottom line ( finally!) is that I don't think you should necessarily leave therapy but your T might not be the right person to continue with. The best thing to do IMHO would be to discuss with him what happened and how you felt about the things he said. Then look for two things: does he remain focused on your feelings and understanding them and does he remain non-defensive. That should give you a good feel for how well he could handle this.
AG
On one hand, as unspeakably painful as it can be to deal with these feelings, knowing they can't be fulfilled (if you read some of my older posts you'll know I speak from experience. I do not take lightly the difficulty of what I'm talking about) I also think it's an incredible catalyst for healing. It has been through exploring and talking about my feelings about my T (which in my case has included my erotic attraction, my dependency, my intense fear of being hurt or abandoned, my desire to have him be my father, my anger at the boundaries, etc etc) that has enabled me to access so many long buried feelings and beliefs and allowed me to make the changes neccesary to live a more fulfilling life.
I don't know if you know anything about attachment theory but the real breakthrough that happened for me was once I expressed my attraction to my T I kept looking for reasons to leave (I even tried going to another T). We realized that as consciously as I longed for love and closeness, moving closer to someone terrified me and triggered an extremely strong ( and infinitely creative) impulse to leave. I have what is known as a disorganized attachment style which was the result of being abused by my dad. Our instinct and drive is to go toward our attachment figure when we need comfort, but when that person is the source of the pain we learn that moving closer gets us hurt. It's a hellish dilemma, one my T calls "the bind." We need to move closer to get our needs met but moving closer gets us hurt.
I know nothing about your background so this could be way off base but you may want to consider if any of this could be a factor in wanting to leave.
All that said, here's my other reaction. Transference has an enormous potential for healing; but if the T doesn't maintain good boundaries the client can be really re-traumatized and severely hurt. One of the reasons that I have been able to be so open with my T is that he made it clear from the very beginning that NOTHING would happen; he had the boundaries. All of my feelings were acceptable and could be discussed and none of them would threaten my relationship with him. But our relationship always needed to be only about my needs so even if he had any feelings for me ( beyond his care for my well-being as my therapist) those would never be expressed because those would be about his needs.
The only time a T should self-disclose is if it is in the client's best interest. Your T's reaction (his talking about his feelings for you and finding you attractive) seemed to be about him and not about you. I must be honest and tell you that your description sent up some red flags for me and I think it's really good that you are looking at this; it's impotant for you to protect yourself.
So, bottom line ( finally!) is that I don't think you should necessarily leave therapy but your T might not be the right person to continue with. The best thing to do IMHO would be to discuss with him what happened and how you felt about the things he said. Then look for two things: does he remain focused on your feelings and understanding them and does he remain non-defensive. That should give you a good feel for how well he could handle this.
AG
Welcome Echo. I totally understand how you are feeling and how confused this must leave you.
I just want to say that as usual AG is spot on. I agree totally with everything she says. She has been there and is very wise.
True North
I just want to say that as usual AG is spot on. I agree totally with everything she says. She has been there and is very wise.
True North
Hi, I'm new here also. I've been reading for a few months and love this website. It has helped me so much the last few months with transference. I didn't know anything about it, or why I was feeling the way I was feeling until I came here and started reading about it. I've been really having a hard time dealing with the feelings I have for my T. The worst part is I know there is noting I can do about it...but stop going to see him. I just can't bring myself to quit. The thought of walking out the door and never going back is just not possible right now. I panic just thinking about it. My T doesn't know about my feelings for him, and I don't think I can talk about it. Not just yet. But the pain I am having day after day is so hard to deal with. I went to therapy to deal with other issues, and now have a new issue that I never expected, and I don't know how to deal with it. Anyway, thanks for listening.
Dear Echo. I am so glad to hear that you quit therapy with this shrink, because if he was interested in and hitting on you, it could very well have hurt you in any number of ways. And if you have/had feelings for him,for sure brokenheartedness. I have experienced my own troubles in therapy and have read countless stories of others who have experienced the same kind of thing and the one thing I learned is
that the longer you stay, the more your feelings will grow, the stronger the attachment/bond. If your psych doesn't/didn't have good boundaries, or ethics you are going to get hurt and this type of love is not healing, it's incredibly tormenting with too much temptation.
From my own experience, my P and I had instant chemistry. To this day I really don't know what was on his mind in the beginning, and why or how he could be so fast and transparent in showing me that he liked me.
At the time I just remember feeling so disrespected because that wasn't what I had come for and I was in so much pain.. Somehow though, I was able to keep my own boundaries firm and he has come to respect that to this day. Sadly, as months progressed, I couldn't help but start to care for him and I started to feel bonded to him.
You see, somewhere along the way, he lowered his boundaries (will never know why again) and I felt like he got emotionally involved with me. This is when I started to melt. In hindsight, I wish I had left him, because as months went along, as emotional intimacy became deeper, I started to fall in love with him and I saw that he cared for me. There was nothing I could do about it..
I never dreamed that this would happen to me..I never wanted it,it REALLY wasn't something that I needed! LOL) .. Love doesn't play by rules.
It is so terribly tormenting to love someone you can't have..
At this point, I am close to recovery, and thankfully by the end of the summer,I won't need to go anymore. I am already having major depression about this. I am hoping that as my life gets back in gear, that I will be able to forget about him and move on...
I just want to commend you for taking such quick action and being able to act on your instincts - you are a smart girl. Although you may miss him some now, it could be a whole lot worse, believe me.
take care, Flicka
that the longer you stay, the more your feelings will grow, the stronger the attachment/bond. If your psych doesn't/didn't have good boundaries, or ethics you are going to get hurt and this type of love is not healing, it's incredibly tormenting with too much temptation.
From my own experience, my P and I had instant chemistry. To this day I really don't know what was on his mind in the beginning, and why or how he could be so fast and transparent in showing me that he liked me.
At the time I just remember feeling so disrespected because that wasn't what I had come for and I was in so much pain.. Somehow though, I was able to keep my own boundaries firm and he has come to respect that to this day. Sadly, as months progressed, I couldn't help but start to care for him and I started to feel bonded to him.
You see, somewhere along the way, he lowered his boundaries (will never know why again) and I felt like he got emotionally involved with me. This is when I started to melt. In hindsight, I wish I had left him, because as months went along, as emotional intimacy became deeper, I started to fall in love with him and I saw that he cared for me. There was nothing I could do about it..
I never dreamed that this would happen to me..I never wanted it,it REALLY wasn't something that I needed! LOL) .. Love doesn't play by rules.
It is so terribly tormenting to love someone you can't have..
At this point, I am close to recovery, and thankfully by the end of the summer,I won't need to go anymore. I am already having major depression about this. I am hoping that as my life gets back in gear, that I will be able to forget about him and move on...
I just want to commend you for taking such quick action and being able to act on your instincts - you are a smart girl. Although you may miss him some now, it could be a whole lot worse, believe me.
take care, Flicka
Hi Echo.
Yes, I am still going through this.. It's been about 9 months and although I had attraction and attachment feelings for him throughout, I really didn't start to feel love until about 2 months ago...
I envy all of you who have been able to be transparent to your P's and T's about your feelings for them. I sure would love to learn and grow from mine because I have had attachment problems all my life. I do not believe in the transference/countertransference mumbo jumbo, tho. I really believe Freud just made this up to cover up his own inability to deal with this issue! LOL... I think that these are all genuine feelings of love,attachment and gratefulness at how much our P's and T's have helped and supported us.
This is natural and human to respond this way!
I could never express my feelings to my P and I try to hide them as much as I am able to (he may though know but he hasn't said anything to indicate that). Since my P has had a difficult time managing his own feelings for me, me telling him would only ruin everything, like the effectiveness of my therapy, but also, it would hurt him to know how I feel, because it is not attainable. In this case, the old saying the less you know, the better..
I totally understand your sadness and wanting to cry.. I hope you can find time alone to grieve but I think it may take some time..
I am so tired of feeling this way myself, but I know it'll be over soon, and I'll find and feel like my old myself again.. I am so wanting to get out!
Wish you the Best, Flicka
Yes, I am still going through this.. It's been about 9 months and although I had attraction and attachment feelings for him throughout, I really didn't start to feel love until about 2 months ago...
I envy all of you who have been able to be transparent to your P's and T's about your feelings for them. I sure would love to learn and grow from mine because I have had attachment problems all my life. I do not believe in the transference/countertransference mumbo jumbo, tho. I really believe Freud just made this up to cover up his own inability to deal with this issue! LOL... I think that these are all genuine feelings of love,attachment and gratefulness at how much our P's and T's have helped and supported us.
This is natural and human to respond this way!
I could never express my feelings to my P and I try to hide them as much as I am able to (he may though know but he hasn't said anything to indicate that). Since my P has had a difficult time managing his own feelings for me, me telling him would only ruin everything, like the effectiveness of my therapy, but also, it would hurt him to know how I feel, because it is not attainable. In this case, the old saying the less you know, the better..
I totally understand your sadness and wanting to cry.. I hope you can find time alone to grieve but I think it may take some time..
I am so tired of feeling this way myself, but I know it'll be over soon, and I'll find and feel like my old myself again.. I am so wanting to get out!
Wish you the Best, Flicka
I had a similar experience that a lot of ppl (especially women) are having transference issues with their Ts.
Here is my experience.
I liked my T instantly. However I felt that he was bothered. Cuz I hinted him that I wanted to be his friend cuz I thought he had a male partner. So I thought there was a bigger chance that we could be friends. Anyways, I was told that it wasn’t going to happen because we are not equal. Which I totally understand.
I told my H right away that I wish I could be his friend. My H said that there is no way it's going to happen. Cuz it's just simply wrong.
So I’ve decided to concentrated on my goals and my problems. It was really hard. I pushed myself all the way. I still don't understand why I went so far. I really wanted to get better. I really wanted to get out from my pains…
Anyways, I was finding all the problems, all the traumas..I was so busy remembering every detailed abuses and even remembering things that I completely forgot or never told anyone in my life.
I have borderline personality which my P said that it has to be ruled out. If I’ve known about this before I started to seeing my T. I am sure we would have tried different types of counselling. My T gave me a lot of options for me. Everything was wide open for me. Someday I was an infant. I was just fussing all the time. Someday I was 2 years old with tantrums. Some days I became a teenager and I was such a rebel to him.
I was really thankful and appreciated him but at the same time I was feeling quite lost because there were no clear boundaries or discipline for me being different ages and different ideas, different personalities.. etc… which I really don’t want to blame him. Because he did his best.
At some point, he agreed with boundary issues and we came up with ways to deal with them. However it didn’t really work because I wasn’t really following his instructions. I couldn’t just become responsible close to 40 years old middle aged grown up woman.
In the beginning, I was able to let go of a lot of my traumas. However as I was talking to him more, I felt really close to him and I think it was more like emotional affair with my T. Then I started to push my H away from me. I had to choose one in my life in that moment. I have tried to include my H but he couldn’t catch up with us. I became more close to my T then my H. Also, I was having some issues with my H and I just didn’t know how to deal with them. I knew my T didn’t have any feelings except tried his best to be my T. However I was hoping that he could see me as a person. Not as his client.
I requested for termination and I am still suffering from my decision. I am still going through a lot… actually more than I can handle…. But I am still here. Trying to go through this again. Telling myself that I can do this again…
I am still thinking what really went wrong between me and my T. I was keep thinking, this isn’t fair for me. I knew that we both tried our best as a T and as a client… ( he was very creative and I did my best with homework)
When I started asking my T’s personal stuff. I was surprised that he was answering my questions. I was being really careful what my questions were. He didn’t seemed mind. He did told me clearly that he is fine with that. Now I think back, as soon as he started to answer my questions, I couldn’t see him as my T any longer. I saw him as a person. So my hopes on us possibly becoming friends were still there in my mind. Because he knew that I have big issues with ending relationships. So it wasn’t fair for me that I was allowed to know about his personal life, that he is busy with certain things and why… I didn’t want to bother him. I didn’t want to hurt his feelings… some point, I started to worry about him.
At the end of our last session, I asked him if he ever wanted to be a friend.
He didn’t even blink his eyes, he seemed very cold, even very proud and said this
“ NO!.....”
I was very hurt instantly and tried to understand what I was feeling. I was feeling something was wrong, right there…
I was like “WOW” I never knew he was such a cold person… because during our sessions, seemed like he was going to be there for me no matter what. Which he did. And he only saw me as his client to help reach my goals… at that point, I’ve realized that I was looking for a friend. Who can just listen what I have to say… I felt like it wasn’t fair for me because I can’t just walk away from his room and forget about him… if that was his plan, than he never should have shared his personal opinions…
Back to blaming games here…
Anyways, I also noticed that a lot of people sound just like me because they seemed to have nobody…
No family, no friends… and I was expecting both from my T. which was totally wrong ideas.
Here is my experience.
I liked my T instantly. However I felt that he was bothered. Cuz I hinted him that I wanted to be his friend cuz I thought he had a male partner. So I thought there was a bigger chance that we could be friends. Anyways, I was told that it wasn’t going to happen because we are not equal. Which I totally understand.
I told my H right away that I wish I could be his friend. My H said that there is no way it's going to happen. Cuz it's just simply wrong.
So I’ve decided to concentrated on my goals and my problems. It was really hard. I pushed myself all the way. I still don't understand why I went so far. I really wanted to get better. I really wanted to get out from my pains…
Anyways, I was finding all the problems, all the traumas..I was so busy remembering every detailed abuses and even remembering things that I completely forgot or never told anyone in my life.
I have borderline personality which my P said that it has to be ruled out. If I’ve known about this before I started to seeing my T. I am sure we would have tried different types of counselling. My T gave me a lot of options for me. Everything was wide open for me. Someday I was an infant. I was just fussing all the time. Someday I was 2 years old with tantrums. Some days I became a teenager and I was such a rebel to him.
I was really thankful and appreciated him but at the same time I was feeling quite lost because there were no clear boundaries or discipline for me being different ages and different ideas, different personalities.. etc… which I really don’t want to blame him. Because he did his best.
At some point, he agreed with boundary issues and we came up with ways to deal with them. However it didn’t really work because I wasn’t really following his instructions. I couldn’t just become responsible close to 40 years old middle aged grown up woman.
In the beginning, I was able to let go of a lot of my traumas. However as I was talking to him more, I felt really close to him and I think it was more like emotional affair with my T. Then I started to push my H away from me. I had to choose one in my life in that moment. I have tried to include my H but he couldn’t catch up with us. I became more close to my T then my H. Also, I was having some issues with my H and I just didn’t know how to deal with them. I knew my T didn’t have any feelings except tried his best to be my T. However I was hoping that he could see me as a person. Not as his client.
I requested for termination and I am still suffering from my decision. I am still going through a lot… actually more than I can handle…. But I am still here. Trying to go through this again. Telling myself that I can do this again…
I am still thinking what really went wrong between me and my T. I was keep thinking, this isn’t fair for me. I knew that we both tried our best as a T and as a client… ( he was very creative and I did my best with homework)
When I started asking my T’s personal stuff. I was surprised that he was answering my questions. I was being really careful what my questions were. He didn’t seemed mind. He did told me clearly that he is fine with that. Now I think back, as soon as he started to answer my questions, I couldn’t see him as my T any longer. I saw him as a person. So my hopes on us possibly becoming friends were still there in my mind. Because he knew that I have big issues with ending relationships. So it wasn’t fair for me that I was allowed to know about his personal life, that he is busy with certain things and why… I didn’t want to bother him. I didn’t want to hurt his feelings… some point, I started to worry about him.
At the end of our last session, I asked him if he ever wanted to be a friend.
He didn’t even blink his eyes, he seemed very cold, even very proud and said this
“ NO!.....”
I was very hurt instantly and tried to understand what I was feeling. I was feeling something was wrong, right there…
I was like “WOW” I never knew he was such a cold person… because during our sessions, seemed like he was going to be there for me no matter what. Which he did. And he only saw me as his client to help reach my goals… at that point, I’ve realized that I was looking for a friend. Who can just listen what I have to say… I felt like it wasn’t fair for me because I can’t just walk away from his room and forget about him… if that was his plan, than he never should have shared his personal opinions…
Back to blaming games here…
Anyways, I also noticed that a lot of people sound just like me because they seemed to have nobody…
No family, no friends… and I was expecting both from my T. which was totally wrong ideas.
Hi Echo.
I think you mentioned in your 1st note that you felt cured. What would be the reason for you to want to return? I'm not quite sure on that.
I agree with Hummingbird. Her advice is really good, and I can't say it much better.
Take care, Flicka
I think you mentioned in your 1st note that you felt cured. What would be the reason for you to want to return? I'm not quite sure on that.
I agree with Hummingbird. Her advice is really good, and I can't say it much better.
Take care, Flicka
Hi Frustrated and welcome to the forum. I'm glad reading here has made you feel better. Most of us got caught off guard by the intensity of our feelings when we started experiencing this. You can really feel out of control and a little crazy, but you're not. It's not that uncommon and certainly not around here. 
And I know that it feels like you went to therapy with one problem and created another, but that's not really what happened. What we experience with our T is usually what we also do in our relationships outside therapy. But in therapy we have a chance to examine what is happening with someone who is experiencing what we're doing and has real insight into why we might do it. We can only know ourselves through relationship and our Ts can provide a real opportunity to understand ourselves.
I know how scary it is to talk about those feelings but actually bringing it to light, if you can trust your T, can be an amazing opportunity. I know it's really scary. Telling my T the first time was one of the scariest things I've even done but it has led to tremendous healing.
Please come here and keep talking about how you're feeling, having other people understand what you're going through doesn't stop the pain but it does help you get through it.
AG
And I know that it feels like you went to therapy with one problem and created another, but that's not really what happened. What we experience with our T is usually what we also do in our relationships outside therapy. But in therapy we have a chance to examine what is happening with someone who is experiencing what we're doing and has real insight into why we might do it. We can only know ourselves through relationship and our Ts can provide a real opportunity to understand ourselves.
I know how scary it is to talk about those feelings but actually bringing it to light, if you can trust your T, can be an amazing opportunity. I know it's really scary. Telling my T the first time was one of the scariest things I've even done but it has led to tremendous healing.
Please come here and keep talking about how you're feeling, having other people understand what you're going through doesn't stop the pain but it does help you get through it.
AG
Hello Attachment Girl, and thank you. I have really been leaning towards quitting therapy this week because the attachment is so intense, and I'm having a really hard time dealing with it. I feel like it will only get worse and I can't handle it. I think if I did tell my T how I feel there is really no way I could face him again. I can't believe this has happened. I know they say attachment is the way to healing, but I don't feel I can continue with the pain and anxiety it will take to get there. I'm hoping it doesn't get worse when I quit...but I have a feeling it will. There's just no easy way out of this.
Hello Frustrated
The pains and anxiety... are those from attathment with your T???
Then you really have to talk to your T your honest feelings and figure out how to get rid of them. If you just quit and walk away, the pian will last for a long time.
I was so freaked out about leaving my T and I just walked away. It's been close to 3 months and I am suffering from regrets.
I hope you can talk to your T, honestly and find ways for you to get rid of fears and pains.
The pains and anxiety... are those from attathment with your T???
Then you really have to talk to your T your honest feelings and figure out how to get rid of them. If you just quit and walk away, the pian will last for a long time.
I was so freaked out about leaving my T and I just walked away. It's been close to 3 months and I am suffering from regrets.
I hope you can talk to your T, honestly and find ways for you to get rid of fears and pains.
I am freaking out!!!
I just sent an e-mail to my T that I want to talk to him about my true feelings...
I am freaking out becuase I am so scared that he won't answer me... cuz I can't go through like this another day...
Has anyone had experince like me???
I had strong feelings about my T and I walked away...but I am regreting deeply...
I've sent a few e-mails to T but I didn't get any replies... and I am so scared that he won't reply again....
I am sooooooooooooooooooooo freaking out.......
I just sent an e-mail to my T that I want to talk to him about my true feelings...
I am freaking out becuase I am so scared that he won't answer me... cuz I can't go through like this another day...
Has anyone had experince like me???
I had strong feelings about my T and I walked away...but I am regreting deeply...
I've sent a few e-mails to T but I didn't get any replies... and I am so scared that he won't reply again....
I am sooooooooooooooooooooo freaking out.......
Hello Cera,
I'm sorry you are going through such a hard time since quitting thearpy. It seems it's a no win situation. We go to thearpy and end up with the unbearable pain over attachment, or we quit and then can't seem to handle not going. I've quit before too, but went right back. It's an addiction.
To answer your question, yes, the pain and anxiety I'm having is from the attachment I have for my T. I feel if I talk to my T about this I won't be able to go back. Why is therapy so hard??? I never expected it to be like this.
Good luck to you. I really hope your T gets back to you soon because I know you will feel better once you hear from him. Keep us posted.
I'm sorry you are going through such a hard time since quitting thearpy. It seems it's a no win situation. We go to thearpy and end up with the unbearable pain over attachment, or we quit and then can't seem to handle not going. I've quit before too, but went right back. It's an addiction.
To answer your question, yes, the pain and anxiety I'm having is from the attachment I have for my T. I feel if I talk to my T about this I won't be able to go back. Why is therapy so hard??? I never expected it to be like this.
Good luck to you. I really hope your T gets back to you soon because I know you will feel better once you hear from him. Keep us posted.
Echo,I have doubted myself so many times regarding my own recovery, but if you feel like you may not be 100% recovered, the advice your therapist friend gave you, was really good - you could continue therapy with a new person, a woman.. This is something I am considering myself, if I feel I need it down the road.
I'm sorry to read that you feel guilty about ruining your relationship with your T. I don't think you did at all - he is the one in control and authority. I think you worry about hurting his feelings because you developed an attachment to him, and you shared so much of yourself, so it feels personal and you care? I have felt the same feelings as well at times..
I personally just don't feel therapy works in the way the rules say it should be because of the deep intimate relationship between P and client. I know that I only have one experience to talk about..maybe if my P would have been a woman I would speak differently..
Take Care, Flicka
I'm sorry to read that you feel guilty about ruining your relationship with your T. I don't think you did at all - he is the one in control and authority. I think you worry about hurting his feelings because you developed an attachment to him, and you shared so much of yourself, so it feels personal and you care? I have felt the same feelings as well at times..
I personally just don't feel therapy works in the way the rules say it should be because of the deep intimate relationship between P and client. I know that I only have one experience to talk about..maybe if my P would have been a woman I would speak differently..
Take Care, Flicka
Hi Echo, Flika, CT, River, Z. LTF, Frustrated...There are so many of you... sorry if I missed anyone
I just had a session with my P.
Guess what?!, she told me that she is doing some research on "Ethics of Online Counseling"
and she was asking me if I am interested in helping her. I felt very honored.
she said that she has a special interest in researching boundary issues in therapeutic relationships online.
I think I'll be the best!
What do you think guys???
I hope I can get paid at least $5/ hour...
I just had a session with my P.
Guess what?!, she told me that she is doing some research on "Ethics of Online Counseling"
and she was asking me if I am interested in helping her. I felt very honored.
she said that she has a special interest in researching boundary issues in therapeutic relationships online.
I think I'll be the best!
What do you think guys???
I hope I can get paid at least $5/ hour...
First off let me say upfront I am a male therapist. I didn't join this forum to speak from that role but as a client of therapy myself, however, in this case I will address this from a professional stance.
Any therapist that is practicing the ethics of their profession should be really clear about the boundaries of a professional relationship. You cannot be friends and you defintely cannot be lovers. This should be absolutely clear and any therapist who would be as ambigious as your guy was is blurring the lines. I think that you are probably a really attractive woman and it felt good for him to hear how you felt. He probably had similar feelings and entertained revealing as much. I'm sure he consulted a supervisor and was told to apoligize and be professional.
I have been attracted to a few of my female clients. A few of them were attracted to me. Each time this eventually camme out in therapy and we used it for therapuetic purposes. Each of these women were beutiful, intelligent, and strong women that I would have been glad to date if we had met in different circumstances. However, I cannot take advantadge of a client...it's just not fair.
Look, the relationship between a client and therapist is very unique. It is very powerful. It is emotional..and don't get me wrong...I really care about my clients. However, it is one sided. My clients don't know even a tenth of the things about me that I know about them. It is just not a fair way to get to know someone.
Good luck. If you can work out this issue in treatment it could provide a really enriching opportunity. However, if he can't make his boundaries clear with you...you may be better off with someone else. Part of the experience is for you to feel safe...and it seems he may be allowing that security to be compromised because of his wants and desires.
Any therapist that is practicing the ethics of their profession should be really clear about the boundaries of a professional relationship. You cannot be friends and you defintely cannot be lovers. This should be absolutely clear and any therapist who would be as ambigious as your guy was is blurring the lines. I think that you are probably a really attractive woman and it felt good for him to hear how you felt. He probably had similar feelings and entertained revealing as much. I'm sure he consulted a supervisor and was told to apoligize and be professional.
I have been attracted to a few of my female clients. A few of them were attracted to me. Each time this eventually camme out in therapy and we used it for therapuetic purposes. Each of these women were beutiful, intelligent, and strong women that I would have been glad to date if we had met in different circumstances. However, I cannot take advantadge of a client...it's just not fair.
Look, the relationship between a client and therapist is very unique. It is very powerful. It is emotional..and don't get me wrong...I really care about my clients. However, it is one sided. My clients don't know even a tenth of the things about me that I know about them. It is just not a fair way to get to know someone.
Good luck. If you can work out this issue in treatment it could provide a really enriching opportunity. However, if he can't make his boundaries clear with you...you may be better off with someone else. Part of the experience is for you to feel safe...and it seems he may be allowing that security to be compromised because of his wants and desires.
Shadow - welcome! I was thirsty to read your response to our greatest dilemma! Watch, you may get bombarded!
My question to you is, if I may ask, is -Have you never fallen in love with a patient? You said you were attracted to a few of your patients, but what was it specifically that kept you from having deeper feelings?
Regards, Flicka
My question to you is, if I may ask, is -Have you never fallen in love with a patient? You said you were attracted to a few of your patients, but what was it specifically that kept you from having deeper feelings?
Regards, Flicka
quote:One thing that has been weighing on me is the guilt I feel about the negative feedback I gave at the end. He gave me so much help and support, and I made tons of progress, but instead of saying that I just told him that he was too nice and made me want him more.
Hi Echo. This is just a suggestion, and merely a suggestion..
It hasn't been too long - why don't you call your P/T on the phone (or even letter/email) and tell him what you really wanted to say. Although it didn't end on a good note (he did not handle it well), at the same time you really appreciate and are grateful for his support,help & encouragement etc.. Tell him that! I think that since your therapy ended so abruptly, it was really not the closure you were expecting.. I think if you COULD (I realize it may be VERY hard) do that, I think it'll end your suffering and give you closure..
quote:His response to this seemed like he was a little disappointed in me. He said that one thing he had really hoped for me was that I would stop feeling guilty about my feelings, and accept that our feelings are valid, whatever they are, and we can't make ourselves feel one thing and not another, etc. I think his exact words were, "Whatever we feel in our hearts is the truth." And here I am still feeling guilty, and wishing I could control my feelings. grr. Annoyed with myself. And now I'm rambling...
Also, when your P was commenting on feelings, did he know that you were feeling guilty over
your neg. feedback of him, or did he think you were feeling guilty over having feelings for him ?
Take care, Flicka
Hi echo,
Maybe you can try writing the letter but not sending it? At least you can try to get some closure that way. And if you decide you want to send it, do it, and maybe you can just write at the end that you don't want him to reply, and are requesting no further contact from him so you can move forward with your life. Ending therapy so abruptly is going to leave feelings floating around. Maybe putting them to paper will help with that.
I don't think your P was clueless. I think he knew he was crossing lines but maybe he thought there was no harm done. Or maybe he was getting too much out of it to stop (he might have felt flattered, even confused about his own feelings for you, and was using your therapy time to explore that which was dead wrong). Either way he crossed lines he shouldn't have and if you decide to leave him with the negative feedback you are more than justified to.
One thing your P is right about - you shouldn't feel guilty about your feelings. So if you feel that telling him he made it too hard was the right thing to say, don't feel guilty. And don't apologise for it. He is the one that should feel guilty, not for his feelings, but for what he did with them and how it affected you.
LTF
Maybe you can try writing the letter but not sending it? At least you can try to get some closure that way. And if you decide you want to send it, do it, and maybe you can just write at the end that you don't want him to reply, and are requesting no further contact from him so you can move forward with your life. Ending therapy so abruptly is going to leave feelings floating around. Maybe putting them to paper will help with that.
quote:But somehow I came to know Way Too Much about my P's personal life; his kids, his arguments with his wife, his "schema" (which just happens to be the exact type I always fall for). And then to top it off all of a sudden he stops wearing his wedding band and drops hints that he knows how crappy it is to be trapped in a relationship with someone who's all wrong for him. How can someone who's been practicing psychiatry for 20 years be so clueless? Midlife crisis?
I don't think your P was clueless. I think he knew he was crossing lines but maybe he thought there was no harm done. Or maybe he was getting too much out of it to stop (he might have felt flattered, even confused about his own feelings for you, and was using your therapy time to explore that which was dead wrong). Either way he crossed lines he shouldn't have and if you decide to leave him with the negative feedback you are more than justified to.
One thing your P is right about - you shouldn't feel guilty about your feelings. So if you feel that telling him he made it too hard was the right thing to say, don't feel guilty. And don't apologise for it. He is the one that should feel guilty, not for his feelings, but for what he did with them and how it affected you.
LTF
Hi. I was just thinking of you thanking him for his support and how much it helped you. End of conversation. I don't know if only that would help you.. I think you may have been thinking of saying more, and if so I can understand considering his previous responses to you.
Also, I'm sorry to hear of your husband
Reading what you wrote here, there's no doubt he wasn't clueless..his intentions were clear and he definitely crossed the boundaries. If a P can't keep the boundaries it's best to get out and look for someone else right away. From what I've read and my own experience - easy said, not always easy done.. It looks like he was using you as a sounding board, as well. That is totally wrong, because it shifts the therapy from what it's all about. I remember once my P told me about some pain he was having. He was actually quite good about it but just that tiny information made me concerned and worry about him. It was awful. Nowadays he is much more careful and I am thankful. I sense he is putting my welfare and my recovery before everything. It has been an answer to my prayers..
It is a good thing you left Echo when you did !
take care, Flicka
“If there is something to desire,
there will be something to regret.
If there is something to regret,
there will be something to recall.
If there is something to recall,
there was nothing to regret.
If there was nothing to regret,
there was nothing to desire.”
Also, I'm sorry to hear of your husband
quote:So this seems obvious when the therapist has a good grasp on boundaries. But somehow I came to know Way Too Much about my P's personal life; his kids, his arguments with his wife, his "schema" (which just happens to be the exact type I always fall for). And then to top it off all of a sudden he stops wearing his wedding band and drops hints that he knows how crappy it is to be trapped in a relationship with someone who's all wrong for him. How can someone who's been practicing psychiatry for 20 years be so clueless? Midlife crisis? And now, writing that, I am SO GLAD I dropped out of therapy before I screwed up my life even more
Reading what you wrote here, there's no doubt he wasn't clueless..his intentions were clear and he definitely crossed the boundaries. If a P can't keep the boundaries it's best to get out and look for someone else right away. From what I've read and my own experience - easy said, not always easy done.. It looks like he was using you as a sounding board, as well. That is totally wrong, because it shifts the therapy from what it's all about. I remember once my P told me about some pain he was having. He was actually quite good about it but just that tiny information made me concerned and worry about him. It was awful. Nowadays he is much more careful and I am thankful. I sense he is putting my welfare and my recovery before everything. It has been an answer to my prayers..
It is a good thing you left Echo when you did !
take care, Flicka
“If there is something to desire,
there will be something to regret.
If there is something to regret,
there will be something to recall.
If there is something to recall,
there was nothing to regret.
If there was nothing to regret,
there was nothing to desire.”
Echo...I think it is ok for you to give somebody feedback...even if it isn't nice. I understand feeling guilty, I do this with certain people too. However, part of what you have gained is being able to tell someone how you felt and being ok with that. He does not need some sort of apology. I think if you sit pat, in time you will see that you will be fine, even after giving this kind of feedback. Good luck.
Flicka, you asked if I had ever fallen in love with a client? My answer is no.
How did I keep attraction from becoming love? That is a little more complex. For starters I think that for me to fall in love I need to know that someone understands who I am. If I am holding professional boundaries my client will never know all those sides that make up me. They will know some things...but not near enough. Like, for example, they will not know what I prefer in the bedroom. I think the other thing is that I have not been availible. I was in intense love withmy wife when I worked with the client that I was most attracted to. This helped, because if I wasn't maybe that story would have a different ending.
I sense that you want to know if it is possible for therapist to love their clients. Of course it is! It happens all the time. My thing is...it is a dangerous, destructive liason that can only end in hurt feelings. Gaurd your heart...I know it's hard when you pine over someone...trust me I know...but it will only end bad.
How did I keep attraction from becoming love? That is a little more complex. For starters I think that for me to fall in love I need to know that someone understands who I am. If I am holding professional boundaries my client will never know all those sides that make up me. They will know some things...but not near enough. Like, for example, they will not know what I prefer in the bedroom. I think the other thing is that I have not been availible. I was in intense love withmy wife when I worked with the client that I was most attracted to. This helped, because if I wasn't maybe that story would have a different ending.
I sense that you want to know if it is possible for therapist to love their clients. Of course it is! It happens all the time. My thing is...it is a dangerous, destructive liason that can only end in hurt feelings. Gaurd your heart...I know it's hard when you pine over someone...trust me I know...but it will only end bad.
deleted.
Thanks for this. I will reread it whenever I feel the guiltmonster creeping up on me. (I've been feeling guilty about sharing this experience online, too. Like I'm badmouthing someone or sharing gossip...)[/QUOTE]
Hey echo
How are you doing with your T?
I have been reading everything around here and I was just curious, any update??? I love gossip 
I will reread it whenever I feel the guiltmonster creeping up on me. (I've been feeling guilty about sharing this experience online, too. Like I'm badmouthing someone or sharing gossip...)[/QUOTE]Hey echo
How are you doing with your T?
I have been reading everything around here and I was just curious, any update??? I love gossip