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Hi UV, I just wanted to let you know that I've read your posts and that I'm thinking of a way to help....I really can relate to alot of what you wrote in terms of the need to be rescued, having only your T to look forward to, the isolation from friends and family, the need for comfort--esp. that one!, having to essentially raise yourself into a grownup, etc. I went through a period of my life during which I was severely anorexic which ended up leaving me extremely dependent on others(mainly healthcare workers and my T), but finally at a point to start accepting getting my needs met, like comfort, or die! I'm over what seems to be the worst now--that is I'm meeting new people, able to hold down a job, taking better care of myself, etc...but I'm not sure exactly how I got here or what advice to give you...all I can say is I think it began with my relationship with my T...her love helped me grow...I'm sorry I can't think of anything concrete to help you through this difficult time....I'm here though, thinking about you, curious about you, and hoping your okay....mlc
Hi UV,
I don't know you...but from your story I feel like we could be sisters.
I'm so glad you decided to post. There is so much in your story that I can relate to.
We have a lot of the basics in common. I had the alcoholic home and the neglectful parents. Lots of abandonment except for some emotional incest. Learned how to be "grown-up" and take care of myself very early. Rescued by a narcissist, only to be abandoned once again. I never got over him, and learned never to rely on anyone else. Spent many years alone, usually emotionally shut down. Occasional crushes on guys where I craved affection and dreamed of being rescued, but since they were unavailable there was no risk. Other than that, I was very "successful" at being alone.
You asked, How can dependency issues emerge after all these years? I think they emerge when we finally get lonely enough to try to have relationships with people. That's when we see that there was a price we paid all those years when we refused to rely on anyone else, and it is this: We never learned how to have healthy relationships. We never learned those interdependent skills. And we find out all those issues are still there, waiting for us to work through them.
You finally found someone who was willing to take care of you...but then you found out that there was too high of a price to pay for that. It's no wonder you're feeling discouraged now, and not knowing where to turn...I felt that way for many years, after I lost the ex-BF who I thought was going to rescue me.
I finally ended up marrying a great guy I have very little "natural" feelings for (although by that time I knew enough about myself to know that my "natural" feelings aren't healthy). We also have two kids and I'm really struggling now because as they get older, I am realizing that I have no idea how to relate to any of them. I have no idea how to be part of a family because I had to shut down in order to survive the one I grew up in. I'm in therapy now to learn how to be present and participate instead of shutting down. It's really hard work, and believe me, there are many days I'd run away if I could figure out a way to live with myself afterward. Just finding a therapist I can work with has been its own saga...although there were invaluable lessons there, too, that are helping me to finally let go of the ex-BF.
So I hope that you will keep coming back and keep posting, keep going to therapy and keep searching for the answers that are inside of you. There is lots of good information and good people on this board who can give you encouragement and hope. The people on this board have helped me more than I can ever measure.
There is also another board that I've found very helpful, especially in the area of craving affection and having rescue fantasies. If you are interested in exploring further, here is the link: LAA Recovery I'm strummergirl there too, although I don't post nearly as much on that board as I do here.
Peace,
SG
I don't know you...but from your story I feel like we could be sisters.
I'm so glad you decided to post. There is so much in your story that I can relate to.We have a lot of the basics in common. I had the alcoholic home and the neglectful parents. Lots of abandonment except for some emotional incest. Learned how to be "grown-up" and take care of myself very early. Rescued by a narcissist, only to be abandoned once again. I never got over him, and learned never to rely on anyone else. Spent many years alone, usually emotionally shut down. Occasional crushes on guys where I craved affection and dreamed of being rescued, but since they were unavailable there was no risk. Other than that, I was very "successful" at being alone.
You asked, How can dependency issues emerge after all these years? I think they emerge when we finally get lonely enough to try to have relationships with people. That's when we see that there was a price we paid all those years when we refused to rely on anyone else, and it is this: We never learned how to have healthy relationships. We never learned those interdependent skills. And we find out all those issues are still there, waiting for us to work through them.
You finally found someone who was willing to take care of you...but then you found out that there was too high of a price to pay for that. It's no wonder you're feeling discouraged now, and not knowing where to turn...I felt that way for many years, after I lost the ex-BF who I thought was going to rescue me.
I finally ended up marrying a great guy I have very little "natural" feelings for (although by that time I knew enough about myself to know that my "natural" feelings aren't healthy). We also have two kids and I'm really struggling now because as they get older, I am realizing that I have no idea how to relate to any of them. I have no idea how to be part of a family because I had to shut down in order to survive the one I grew up in. I'm in therapy now to learn how to be present and participate instead of shutting down. It's really hard work, and believe me, there are many days I'd run away if I could figure out a way to live with myself afterward. Just finding a therapist I can work with has been its own saga...although there were invaluable lessons there, too, that are helping me to finally let go of the ex-BF.
So I hope that you will keep coming back and keep posting, keep going to therapy and keep searching for the answers that are inside of you. There is lots of good information and good people on this board who can give you encouragement and hope. The people on this board have helped me more than I can ever measure.
There is also another board that I've found very helpful, especially in the area of craving affection and having rescue fantasies. If you are interested in exploring further, here is the link: LAA Recovery I'm strummergirl there too, although I don't post nearly as much on that board as I do here.
Peace,
SG
UV,
My goodness, maybe you, me and SG could be triplets... I also have had a very difficult time with isolating myself. Depression has been my downfall (on & off) for over 30 years. Meds, therapy... I've tried a lot of different things. I'm married and have 2 grown boys (18 & 22) - everyone still at home for the time being and I feel like I am totally alone. I could stay in bed all day but I don't because then I feel really guilty. I have no idea what motivation looks like... But I am able to go to work every weekend and be someone totally different. (I function very well at work.)
I tend to be overly dependent upon my husband and boys. I truly do not know if I could live without them. It has been getting better, slowly... I too want some one to take care of me - but I am finding out in therapy that no one can take care of me, at least not in the way that I see in my dreams. I have to take care of myself and I am learning to do that - but it is taking forever... (At least it seems that way.)
I don't really know what to say to help at this moment. I just thought I'd let you know that you are not alone...
KS
My goodness, maybe you, me and SG could be triplets... I also have had a very difficult time with isolating myself. Depression has been my downfall (on & off) for over 30 years. Meds, therapy... I've tried a lot of different things. I'm married and have 2 grown boys (18 & 22) - everyone still at home for the time being and I feel like I am totally alone. I could stay in bed all day but I don't because then I feel really guilty. I have no idea what motivation looks like... But I am able to go to work every weekend and be someone totally different. (I function very well at work.)
I tend to be overly dependent upon my husband and boys. I truly do not know if I could live without them. It has been getting better, slowly... I too want some one to take care of me - but I am finding out in therapy that no one can take care of me, at least not in the way that I see in my dreams. I have to take care of myself and I am learning to do that - but it is taking forever... (At least it seems that way.)
I don't really know what to say to help at this moment. I just thought I'd let you know that you are not alone...
KS
Welcome UV and I'm glad you found the board and decided to post. I grew up in a physically and emotionally abusive house and have been "pseudo" independent for as long as I can remember. Usually childen who grow up with abuse have attachment and complex trauma issues to deal with as adults. We also need to learn to be dependent on someone trustworthy (a T) before we can learn to become inter-dependent (because no one is really truly independent). We all need connection with others to survive. My problem is with intimacy. It terrifies me to allow anyone to get close to me because my brain will scream danger. I have a really hard time allowing someone to take care of me although I feel like that would be wonderful, I still cannot allow or accept it. I am learning from my T that it's okay to depend on him, and to express my needs to him. I think that this can only work in a relationship where it's all about US and this is what a therapy relationship offers. I will say that it's very slow going at times (I'm with my T weekly for 2 years now) and as my T reminds me it's not a linear process. Sometimes it's one step forward and two steps back and then you go sideways for awhile.
I just wanted to ask about your relationship with your T? Do you trust him? Do you feel safe enough with him to talk about anything? Do you feel an attunement? I'm a firm believer that it's the relationship that IS the therapy and what heals us. In a safe, boundaried therapeutic relationship we learn to trust and to discover who we are and what we are capable of. And having someone there only for us who "hears" us and is witness to our past and our story... that becomes very healing.
Please hang in there and keep posting. There are a lot of really good, caring and insightful members on this Board.
TN
I just wanted to ask about your relationship with your T? Do you trust him? Do you feel safe enough with him to talk about anything? Do you feel an attunement? I'm a firm believer that it's the relationship that IS the therapy and what heals us. In a safe, boundaried therapeutic relationship we learn to trust and to discover who we are and what we are capable of. And having someone there only for us who "hears" us and is witness to our past and our story... that becomes very healing.
Please hang in there and keep posting. There are a lot of really good, caring and insightful members on this Board.
TN
Hi UV, nice to meet you and welcome here.
I've been to depression place too. It takes time, but I believe it is manageable to get out. It is hard and painful, but you can get better. It's great that you have a therapist to help you through. I relied only on meds, which were helpful enough, and just now after a few years have passed, I'm doing a final (hopefully) "clean up" with the help of my T. I wish I had somebody like him when I was in that dark awful place.
I also was always very independent person, and once I wasn't carefull enough and allowed myself to develop strong feelings towards someone. And that triggered depression. Similar reaction to yours probably. I don't know how it can be changed through therapy but I strongly believe that somehow it can be done. With help of somebody who really cares, who will not hurt you, who will be there for you for as long as you need and whom you can really trust.
Well, as for the above sentence, I'm still learning to comprehend it.
I've been to depression place too. It takes time, but I believe it is manageable to get out. It is hard and painful, but you can get better. It's great that you have a therapist to help you through. I relied only on meds, which were helpful enough, and just now after a few years have passed, I'm doing a final (hopefully) "clean up" with the help of my T. I wish I had somebody like him when I was in that dark awful place.
I also was always very independent person, and once I wasn't carefull enough and allowed myself to develop strong feelings towards someone. And that triggered depression. Similar reaction to yours probably. I don't know how it can be changed through therapy but I strongly believe that somehow it can be done. With help of somebody who really cares, who will not hurt you, who will be there for you for as long as you need and whom you can really trust.
Well, as for the above sentence, I'm still learning to comprehend it.
Hi UV
You must be right, there's got to be a connection between our fathers and the men we're attracted to, but between the two of them my mom was way more distant. So until recently, I never saw a connection between my dad and the guys I'm attracted to. Maybe it was hard to see because I never found my dad desirable (of course not, I know...but there's also the fact that he doesn't have good personal hygiene). But otherwise my dad is a very intelligent and charismatic person, if also extremely self-absorbed. And that's the connection - I really light up around men who are intelligent, charismatic, and self-absorbed. More will be revealed in the therapy, I hope, but it's cool to even begin to be able to see a connection.
As for whether I'm "over" the ex-BF: When I say I'm not over him, what I mean (at this point) is that I need to get to the root of why I'm still not over him. And I'm slowly getting there.
My former T said the ex-BF is a symbol of how I feel about myself. He's right, but I think it's much bigger than that - I think he's a symbol of all the needs I had as a kid and never even knew or recognized or admitted or acknowledged or anything until fairly recently. All of it got put on him because we met when both our families were in crisis and I finally had someone paying attention to me. I had given up on my parents at quite a young age but all my needs came roaring to life when I met the ex-BF. And then in breaking up, I got abandoned again and it felt like it was going to kill me. But I didn't know how to work through it, didn't know why I couldn't get over it like other people, so I just buried it and hoped it would go away, until a couple years ago when I ran into him and it came back to life and said, you can run, but you can't hide!
Anyway this is something I've been talking about with my current T quite a bit and I'm hoping as we work through it I can connect with those needs I had as a kid, recognize and admit them. As we're very slooooowly making those connections (and they've barely just begun...I wish it would go faster!!!) I'm also just beginning to become more aware, on a gut level, of the needs my daughters have. And that makes sense, doesn't it? If I denied I had those needs myself (no matter what the reason was), how can I possibly "see" my daughters emotional needs? I can't meet my daughters' emotional needs until I acknowledge and recognize those needs that I had when I was the daughter. No amount of book reading or class taking can replace it, at least not for me (if it could it would have worked by now - I'm a die-hard book-reader class-taker rule-follower and it only goes so far and then I hit this great big invisible but very solid brick wall).
It sounds like you've learned a lot about narcissists and are coming to terms with having been a victim of one. I'm so sorry, it is really hard I know. All of the men I've been attracted to have been narcissistic to some degree. I've done a lot of reading on it after recognizing that it explained a lot of my ex-BF's bewildering behavior. The fairy tale beginning, having been only an object to them, going along with their version of you, then being devalued, the lack of remorse, the lack of closure, the difficulty of getting "yourself" back from the self they assigned to you. Supposedly narcissists suffer greatly under their own twisted system, and yes, it helps when I can feel sorry for them. But from a distance is a LOT less painful.
There, now you see what happens when I don't get to see my T, I write a book. Hey, wait, I do that anyway, don't I?
I missed talking to her today. She called back yesterday and did the right thing by offering to make paying for the session more "doable" but I just couldn't do that. She charges so little anyway - far less than what she's worth - sometimes I wonder how she can make a living. Also, I was really depending on those reimbursements to keep going, and now that they've denied the last four claims we really don't have enough for me to go this week, even with her low rate. So I just said I'd rather wait till next week and she was okay with that. But it was really nice of her to try and offer, I really appreciated that. I can make it through one week without seeing her...hopefully I'll hear back from the (rackafrackin'
) insurance this week.
Love,
SG
You must be right, there's got to be a connection between our fathers and the men we're attracted to, but between the two of them my mom was way more distant. So until recently, I never saw a connection between my dad and the guys I'm attracted to. Maybe it was hard to see because I never found my dad desirable (of course not, I know...but there's also the fact that he doesn't have good personal hygiene). But otherwise my dad is a very intelligent and charismatic person, if also extremely self-absorbed. And that's the connection - I really light up around men who are intelligent, charismatic, and self-absorbed. More will be revealed in the therapy, I hope, but it's cool to even begin to be able to see a connection.
As for whether I'm "over" the ex-BF: When I say I'm not over him, what I mean (at this point) is that I need to get to the root of why I'm still not over him. And I'm slowly getting there.
My former T said the ex-BF is a symbol of how I feel about myself. He's right, but I think it's much bigger than that - I think he's a symbol of all the needs I had as a kid and never even knew or recognized or admitted or acknowledged or anything until fairly recently. All of it got put on him because we met when both our families were in crisis and I finally had someone paying attention to me. I had given up on my parents at quite a young age but all my needs came roaring to life when I met the ex-BF. And then in breaking up, I got abandoned again and it felt like it was going to kill me. But I didn't know how to work through it, didn't know why I couldn't get over it like other people, so I just buried it and hoped it would go away, until a couple years ago when I ran into him and it came back to life and said, you can run, but you can't hide!
Anyway this is something I've been talking about with my current T quite a bit and I'm hoping as we work through it I can connect with those needs I had as a kid, recognize and admit them. As we're very slooooowly making those connections (and they've barely just begun...I wish it would go faster!!!) I'm also just beginning to become more aware, on a gut level, of the needs my daughters have. And that makes sense, doesn't it? If I denied I had those needs myself (no matter what the reason was), how can I possibly "see" my daughters emotional needs? I can't meet my daughters' emotional needs until I acknowledge and recognize those needs that I had when I was the daughter. No amount of book reading or class taking can replace it, at least not for me (if it could it would have worked by now - I'm a die-hard book-reader class-taker rule-follower and it only goes so far and then I hit this great big invisible but very solid brick wall).
It sounds like you've learned a lot about narcissists and are coming to terms with having been a victim of one. I'm so sorry, it is really hard I know. All of the men I've been attracted to have been narcissistic to some degree. I've done a lot of reading on it after recognizing that it explained a lot of my ex-BF's bewildering behavior. The fairy tale beginning, having been only an object to them, going along with their version of you, then being devalued, the lack of remorse, the lack of closure, the difficulty of getting "yourself" back from the self they assigned to you. Supposedly narcissists suffer greatly under their own twisted system, and yes, it helps when I can feel sorry for them. But from a distance is a LOT less painful.
There, now you see what happens when I don't get to see my T, I write a book. Hey, wait, I do that anyway, don't I?
I missed talking to her today. She called back yesterday and did the right thing by offering to make paying for the session more "doable" but I just couldn't do that. She charges so little anyway - far less than what she's worth - sometimes I wonder how she can make a living. Also, I was really depending on those reimbursements to keep going, and now that they've denied the last four claims we really don't have enough for me to go this week, even with her low rate. So I just said I'd rather wait till next week and she was okay with that. But it was really nice of her to try and offer, I really appreciated that. I can make it through one week without seeing her...hopefully I'll hear back from the (rackafrackin'
) insurance this week. Love,
SG
quote:Originally posted by ultraviolet:
Learning about transference led me to realize that I am emotionally immature.
Hi UV,
I might suggest that a part of you may be emotionally immature, and by emotionally immature I would mean emotionally under-developed, for reasons you are no doubt starting to discover. One thing I've learned in therapy is that there are very few, if any, things are either/or, black/white, all/nothing. It's more about parts of you, rarely ever all of you.
I have a friend. He's 43, married, two kids, one of whom has special needs. Yet, my friend's priorities are watching sports, drinking and online gambling...and he can't hold down a job. And he has no clue that his life is a total mess. Emotionally, he's about 15. Now that is emotional immaturity.
Russ
Hi UV,
I am going through that, starting to feel the feelings. It is so painful and I am finding it very scary.
quote:I'm just starting to be aware of my emotions after stuffing them away for so long. In a way, it's like growing up again, except now with T
I am going through that, starting to feel the feelings. It is so painful and I am finding it very scary.