Welcome to the forums, MacLove! It is good to "meet" you. I look forward to getting to know you better.

Thank you for sharing this experience you had with hearing your T differently when you listened to the recording. I'm glad it's had such a profound effect on you, and has helped you to see a side of your T you were hoping was there, but just couldn't see when you were right there in the "spotlight", so to speak. It makes me wonder now how much of what is coming from my T that I am missing (and what I missed from my other T).

I look forward to hearing how it goes with you telling him your new insights in your next session. I hope it opens new doors for you in your therapy.

Oh, BTW, your post wasn't even close to being "long". About average for this forum. We all of us are very understanding with long posts!

SG

quote:

I hope it opens new doors for you in your therapy.

That's very sweet of you, thank you!!

Welcome MacLove!

Thank you all for your responses!

Thinking about it more, I’m pretty conflicted about telling him. I don’t want him to all of a sudden be more guarded and not talk as openly because I’m recording it. If I tell him that I'm recording next session, and then I feel like he sounds less caring and more towards a “blank slate” that would be pretty devastating since I just found out he cares about me. But I think it would be very awkward if I’ve been recording for months and then all of a sudden say, “Oh, by the way I’ve been recording our session for months. Sorry I forgot to tell you!” Good thing I have a whole 6 days till our next session to think about this.

I’ll hopefully have some good things to report next Tuesday.

Maclove

Welcome MacLove!

Hi Maclove,
Welcome to the forums!

AG

Welcome, MacLove! I have only recorded a session once (last session with previous therapist), and I also found it to be enormously helpful, for the same reason you described, and also because it was helpful to hear how I sounded, which was not at all what I expected. (When I listened to the recording I could hear him sniffling and his voice cracked at the end of the session. He was crying and I didn't even notice! In all fairness, I wasn't wearing my contacts that day and he was just a blurry figure sitting in a chair.) I wish I had been recording all along.

May I suggest that you simply ask your T if he minds if you record sessions, not mentioning that you already did it once unless he asks? And then depending on how he reacts, you can say what you just said above in your first post?

MacLove, welcome!
By the way, I think if it was me, I would do like echo said in her post. Check out first if it's safe to tell him. I never recorded a session. It actually didn't even cross my mind. I think I would be really appalled hearing myself talk in session. I could not stand it. It could turn out that I am totally different then I am trying to present myself in front of my T. I would be so ashamed. The other reason is I would be absolutely terrified to do this without telling him, and if I did I would feel guilty, frightened and awfully anxious. That would be unbearable to have this kind of secret from him.
I don't intend to tell here that recording sessions is inappropriate and you shouldn't do this. Sometimes therapists record session for some purposes. It's just that it would freak me out too much to even attempt it.
Let us know how your next session goes.
It was great to ready about how you realised that there was so much goodness, caring and love in your T's voice. It's wonderful that you realised he cares about you.

I remember that my T would sometimes (especially when I was in a child-like state) talk to me so gently and slowly, like to a small and frightened child. I love him for that.

Hey MacLove, welcome aboard the good ship Shrinkforum...I think it's great you got so much out of doing this...I wish I could so much, sometimes, boy do I wish I could...I feel like I pay for it and lose so much of it, it is frustrating...but like Amazon

quote:

It's just that it would freak me out too much to even attempt it.

hee,hee, I'm kinda with you on it Amazon...
too freaked out and can't stand even re-reading my own emails to him! groan...

BB

!

Welcome maclove,

Thanks for sharing this. I've thought about recording my sessions, too, and now, hearing about your experience, I might bring it up with my T.

May I ask exactly why kind of microphone you have? Is it something like the SwitchEasy Thumbtack? Was it just connected to your iPod? I have an iPod.

Thanks,
Russ

Do all ipods record? I have an ipod touch and I used an app called iRecord with it.

This is the mic that I used-

http://www.amazon.com/gp/produ...38631&pf_rd_i=507846

Thanks, Maclove.

I'm not sure if all iPods record, but I know the classic does, which is what I have.

Thanks for the link!
Russ

quote:

Originally posted by Russ:


May I ask exactly why kind of microphone you have? Is it something like the SwitchEasy Thumbtack? Was it just connected to your iPod? I have an iPod.

Thanks,
Russ

Hey Russ, I have the switcheasy thumb tack mic for my ipod touch. It seems to record great, but then suddenly there will be a buzzing sound over the recording, that gradually gets louder and louder until I can't hear the original recording any more. I don't know if this is a flaw of the mic or the ipod, or something to do with it being too close to another piece of electronics (my cell phone in my purse?)...

Do you have this mic? What do you think of it?

And I record with the Voice Memos app, if anyone is interested. MacLove - how do you like your mic and the app you use?

.

I recorded for over an hour with the voice memos app. It depends on how much room you have on your ipod. If you already have a ton of music, videos, etc, then you might not have enough memory for a longer recording? Maybe? (I'm not tech-y either!)

With the ipod touch, the mic goes in the headphone jack, so there are absolutely no noises possible while the mic is plugged in, because there is no other speaker. So if there was a "beep" at any point, I wouldn't have been able to hear it. So can't help you on that one.

The buzzing drives me crazy, though. I think I'll try that other microphone. $2.79!! wow that's cheap.

Hi MacLove (and everyone else) welcome!

I record all my sessions and I'm soo glad I do, it helps me out tremendously in more ways than I would have imagined. I use my ipod nano which has a voice memo feature, I've recorded up to 2 hours before with no problem. (forgot to turn it off at the end of the session)

I haven't told him I do this. (I know, I'm probably going to be scolded for this like on the previous thread about recording sessions, but oh well) If he asked me not to do this anymore for liability reasons, I would be devastated. Maybe someday I will tell him, but I'm not there yet. I have so much trouble recalling sessions that it has been a useful tool in dealing with topics that were brought up earlier that I otherwise may have forgotten.

WLOH

I'm going to ask my T tomorrow what his thoughts are on my recording sessions. What I'm hearing in this thread makes me think that it could be really, really helpful.

WLOH, would you mind talking a little more about how listening to your sessions helps you?

echo, I don't currently have a mic, but I'll get one if my T is cool with me recording our sessions. I'm a little afraid of hearing the sessions, but I think it could give me a new perspective, too.

Thanks!
Russ

Good luck on asking your T Russ, I'd be very curious to hear what his thoughts are.

Hey, ML...hmm, then maybe it is something I will think about trying...I didn't get the impressiong that you were trying to make out like it was no big deal...I was just beating myself up for not being as brave as you are. Now I will stop beating self.
hmmm, now you've got me thinking about this trying to do things that are uncomfortable thing.... think, think think... Nope, still too chicken.

BB

Hi, WLOH...MacLove, hope you don't mind if I just say hello on your thread, since I was wondering where WLOH had got to! Good to see your post, WLOH...and I hope I wasn't the one who scolded you if I was, then I assure you it was totally unintentional!

hug,

BB

Well, I asked my T what he thought about me recording my sessions. I explained that not only would it allow me to review what we went over (since I forget half of it because I'm so activated and freaked out when I'm in there), and also that it might allow me to get a new perspective on myself and how I am in therapy.

He said he'd have to think about it but didn't really say why.

At the moment, I really wish he'd just go f himself. I feel like he's asking me to morph into a completely different person.

Russ

quote:

Originally posted by MacLove:
OH MY GOD, RUSS. WHAT AN A HOLE!

Actually, he's a great therapist, he just makes me very, very angry sometimes.

I know I was actually going to put in parentheses (I’m sure he’s a great T despite the little incident of the “I’ll think about it”)

Do you think you are going to bring it up again if he doesn’t? Do you think he will actually think about it and give you an answer?

quote:

Originally posted by MacLove:
Do you think he will actually think about it and give you an answer?

There's no question he'll get back to me on it. In fact, I'll probably never hear the end of it now.

Okay, that's good. I think I should go practice what I am going to say to my T now.

Russ

quote:

Actually, he's a great therapist, he just makes me very, very angry sometimes.

Lol Russ you’ve waited two weeks to see him again and the first thing he does is piss you right off by having to ‘think about’ giving you something you’ve asked for. In your place I would not only be very very angry, but hurt as hell (never mind whatever reasonable rational explanations for his response there are.) Maybe you can use this as an opportunity to get in touch with some of your deeper feelings about him?

In any event I hope he does say yes - you’ve been brave enough to ask for something from him it would be pretty crappy to be denied!

Let us know what he decides?

LL

quote:

Originally posted by Lamplighter:
Maybe you can use this as an opportunity to get in touch with some of your deeper feelings about him?

Yes, I hope so, too, LL. And whatever he decides, that is what he'll try to help me do. For him, it's not about me getting something from him or him "fixing" me, despite me wanting him to do both of these things. For him, it's about getting to the buried feelings, and growing from there.

And there's no question that right now, I'm raging against him, although hesitantly and in kind of a sideways way. He's trying to get me to be more direct with it, but I'm afraid he can't contain how much anger I have. He pointed out last night that I'm acting like my father, and I'm treating him like my father treated me. I remember reading about this somewhere once. It's called "inverted transference." The client takes on the position of their abuser or neglector, and makes the therapist the target for their bad stuff.

Last night I was furious but of course wasn't able to come right at him with it. I just kind of snitty. He said, "say those words." I couldn't. He said, "it sounds like 'f*%k you' to me." And it was...in a big way.

I hope he allows me to record, too. If he doesn't, I'll be livid and we'll take it from there.

quote:

Originally posted by MacLove:
Okay, that's good. I think I should go practice what I am going to say to my T now.

Let us know what he says!

Russ

Hi Russ--

To answer the question from the previous page, listening to the sessions first and foremost reminds me what we've talked about, so we can goback to it later if necessary. (I forget sessions quickly) Also, it's a comfort just to hear his voice. I go for long walks down country roads and just listen, when I'm feeling depressed or a bit out of touch with reality. It's almost like having another therapy session! And this may seem weird but, when I listen to myself talk/cry, I think "I feel really bad for this girl, she deserves help"--most of the time I feel unworthy of help, like I'm wasting his time, etc...so it puts things in perspective for me.

It kinda backfired on me today though; T told my prescriber something that he assured me last week he wouldn't tell her, and she confronted me about it. I was floored, didn't know how to react. So I called my therapist and he said he didn't recall ever agreeing to not tell her.. Of course I have the recording of him saying that, but there's nothing I can do without "outing" my secret therapy recordings. Oh well, at least I know I was right. :P

Edit: The reason I haven't told T about recording is I'm afraid he'll ask me to stop due to liability issues. Hypothetical example: Patient tells therapist they are going to kill themselves, when, where, how, etc...and the therapist does nothing about it. Patient is found dead soon after (by suicide.) Family sues therapist for inaction (duty to warn/protect)--yadda yadda yadda. I hope your T says yes to your request, Russ.

WLOH,

Thanks for the reply.

quote:

And this may seem weird but, when I listen to myself talk/cry, I think "I feel really bad for this girl, she deserves help"

Nothing weird about that at all! I think it's entirely healthy and appropriate since we all deserve help.

UV,

I think you bring up a lot of good questions that a T might want to consider before saying yes to recording, the main one being, will this be beneficial to the client.

Like you, I could never record my sessions without telling my T. I guess I have a guilty conscience, but it's also that I value our honest relationship and I'd feel that I was being deceptive. If he'd been recording me without telling me, I'd lose my you know what, so I figure it's only fair to ask before.

And this is not a judgment on WLOF or MacLove by any means. We all have different therapies with different people.

At the moment, I'm hoping he says, OK, let's try it for a couple of weeks and see how it pans out. It if's not beneficial, we can stop it. So, I'll find out more tomorrow.

Russ

Hey Maclove that’s great news. Your T sounds pretty cool.

Am interrupting the thread here, sorry, just something Russ posted that I wanted to respond to.

Wow Russ

quote:

I remember reading about this somewhere once. It's called "inverted transference." The client takes on the position of their abuser or neglector, and makes the therapist the target for their bad stuff.

This comment really had me sitting up in my chair - all sorts of connections buzzing in my brain. It suddenly explains a whole lot of things I’ve been aware of in me which I just put down to ‘negative transference’ operating in real world too not just with a T - but you’ve separated out something really important for me right there in those words.

I’ve been vaguely aware at times of feeing this urge to have a go at people, really let rip at them with all the shit that’s been dumped in my head from day dot and then felt incredibly guilty and frightened and self hating about it. Thinking about it I recognized it’s me wanting to treat people the way I’ve been treated.

(It’s the sort of things pyschodrama and gestalt Ts would have a field day with lol)

But that you’ve put it into words, and also that it even has a label, suddenly makes it… I dunno… comprehensible? Even ok? I think it’s something I’ve been terrified of in therapy - that if I ever went into that mode the therapist would really take it personally, get shot of me, seeing me as an unacceptably bad client etc and so I’ve always been careful to monitor and pre-empt whatever anger/contempt/bad feelings surface. Now for some reason it makes real sense and not some frighteningly unacceptable bad thing about me.

Sorry rambling a bit here, just had to say how much your words suddenly made things really clear to me - thanks for that Russ!

LL

p.s. sorry guys, I'll come back later and respond properly to the thread itself. Hope you don't mind my hijacking for a bit.

Way to go UV! That is great. I'm so glad that your T said it was ok and wasn't upset with you.

quote:

Originally posted by MacLove:
Hi all,

I just got back from my session and I haven’t even listened to the recording yet, but I wanted to post and say that my T was totally accepting, happy, and supportive of me recording sessions.

That's awesome, MacLove. If I have anything to report after my session tomorrow, I'll be sure to update the thread. If you don't mind me asking, what kind of therapy are you doing? Is it CBT or more "insight" based psychodynamic stuff?

LL,

I don't want to hyjack ML's thread, either, but just to address your thought...yeah, I guess you could say it's a kind of negative transference, but at some point it probably makes no difference what you call it. But, there's no question that what I'm feeling is a kind of fundamental, foundational anger/rage that is very, very, very old, and it's directed *right* at him. I mean, this is anger that could burn a hole through the floor.

Russ

quote:

Originally posted by MacLove:
Russ-
It's client centered therapy with a focus on object relations.

Excellent. Sounds like you have a great rapport with him.

Hi MacLove,

Congratulations on pushing through your fear to tell your T you had recorded and wanted to keep doing so. It is incredibly hard work to move against fear, but you did it. Good job!! And I was so glad to read that you had such a great response from him, about the recording, and about this board too. He sounds like a gem of a T.

SG

Thank you, Ultraviolet. I think my T is pretty cool too : )

I went ahead and asked my (new) T today if it was okay if I record sessions. She wanted to know why I want to do this (just curious, not accusatory), so I told her I had recorded my last session with ex-P and that it had been really helpful for me. I "space out" during sessions and then forget what was said and by whom, and then my mind tries to fill in the blanks and it results in a lot of misunderstanding and confusion for both parties.

She said it would be fine if I record. As long as I "don't post it to a blog" or anything. (OMG I would never do that! I can hardly stand to hear my voice myself!)

So just another vote for Ask Your T, they will probably say yes.

Congrats on asking your T, echo!!! I know, I would never let anyone hear the recording. I have a password on my iPod just for that.


One (maybe) negative thing about recording sessions:

For the past two weeks I’ve noticed that as I’m listening to the recording I find things that I can turn into insults, even though he didn’t mean it like that at all.

For example this past Tuesday my T was telling me what ‘gifts’ I have given him. He talked about my willingness to grow and change, and that I’ve gone from a place of chaos and depression to a place of health, and then he said “And all I do in this room is provide opportunity.” UMMMM… I’ve read enough books on the client-centered approach to know that you do A LOT more than “provide opportunity.” Maybe he can trick other clients into believing that but not me. But if I didn’t have the recording I would have never seen that as an insult. And I don’t think he meant it as an insult one little bit. I just turned it into one.

So I said that it’s maybe a negative because talking about things that they said that hurt you is good too… In my experience whenever I tell my T that I didn’t like something he said he has responded with apologies and understanding. And then also I can become more aware of the fact that maybe sometimes I twist people’s words around to make it sound like they are insulting me when they really aren’t.

Echo,

That stinks! I'm sorry she changed her mind. I think I'd be upset about the fact that she said it's a "trust issue" as well. For me, it would make me not trust my T.

I hope everything else went well with your session!