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double post, oops
to me, it sounds so familiar, to the authority figure in MY life NOT BELIEVING ME.
is that what it boils down to?? sounds like her reasons seem sound, but i am with you, why does she need to validate that?? idk much, but, the charmer type hopefully can be seen through by a skilled therapist, i would think. is there any hope of saving the marriage that she sees??
hope the best for you in this.
is that what it boils down to?? sounds like her reasons seem sound, but i am with you, why does she need to validate that?? idk much, but, the charmer type hopefully can be seen through by a skilled therapist, i would think. is there any hope of saving the marriage that she sees??
hope the best for you in this.
Hi Echo,
I know over the years that both my husband and I have gone to each other's individual appts for different reasons. When I was recovering memories, I wanted my husband to come so he could see what it was like for me. And I went with him occasionally even before we did marital therapy because we were trying to work through something so I came in for a single session or so. So it's not THAT unusual for a therapist to meet a family member. What sends up red flags for me is that she wants to see him alone. Hell, my teenage daughter's therapist wouldn't agree to talk to me unless she was in the room. The truth is, that your individual therapist is YOUR advocate and in my opinion shouldn't be talking to anyone in your life without you there. I totally understand your discomfort, I wouldn't want that either. I mean, if it's her concern that your husband won't speak freely if you're there, then he won't and who cares? He wants to be listened to, then he can go get his own therapist. All he needs to do is listen if she's really trying to explain things to him.
And you have my sympathy about your dad. My husband had a father like that. He was a self-centered, narcissistic, emotionally stunted, cruel bastard but he could be incredibly charming when he wanted to be. I am ashamed to admit that my reaction the first time I met him was "what is DH talking about? He's a lovely man!" (we were only friends at the time) but because my alchoholic father was also a charming man, I kept my mind open and paid attention and came to know the truth. People like that can make you feel like you're crazy.
AG
I know over the years that both my husband and I have gone to each other's individual appts for different reasons. When I was recovering memories, I wanted my husband to come so he could see what it was like for me. And I went with him occasionally even before we did marital therapy because we were trying to work through something so I came in for a single session or so. So it's not THAT unusual for a therapist to meet a family member. What sends up red flags for me is that she wants to see him alone. Hell, my teenage daughter's therapist wouldn't agree to talk to me unless she was in the room. The truth is, that your individual therapist is YOUR advocate and in my opinion shouldn't be talking to anyone in your life without you there. I totally understand your discomfort, I wouldn't want that either. I mean, if it's her concern that your husband won't speak freely if you're there, then he won't and who cares? He wants to be listened to, then he can go get his own therapist. All he needs to do is listen if she's really trying to explain things to him.
And you have my sympathy about your dad. My husband had a father like that. He was a self-centered, narcissistic, emotionally stunted, cruel bastard but he could be incredibly charming when he wanted to be. I am ashamed to admit that my reaction the first time I met him was "what is DH talking about? He's a lovely man!" (we were only friends at the time) but because my alchoholic father was also a charming man, I kept my mind open and paid attention and came to know the truth. People like that can make you feel like you're crazy.
AG
Echo -
I agree with AG. The idea of her meeting with him without you is concerning. My T has talked with family members or other people before, but always with me.
My T met with my mom and my mom might have said more if I wasn't there, but my T said a lot, and helped my mom feel comfortable to really talk with her AND me about a lot of things. It was a hard session, but a really good one. (Im between 25-35 but my mom is a big part of my life and family dynamics were nutty when it came to me and my mom needed help to understand what was up and what she could do to help me in my recovery process.)
My T talked once about how she wouldn't ever meet alone with a family member about me because she wants to protect the "theraputic alliance" with me. I trust my T with a lot, and I think I'd be ok with her meeting with a family member alone - but only kinda ok with it. I think it would still kinda mess with my head, and I think my T knows it would much more than I want to admit. My T said that if my mom had things she needed to talk to someone about regarding me that she could not say with me present, then for the sake of my relationship with my T, and for the sake of the effectiveness of my therapy, my mom needs to find her a T to work on those issues with (and even encouraged my mom to do so, saying it was the best thing she could do for me - have a T to talk with about me when she needed.) My T even said she would have to refuse to be an individual T for my mom just because she was already my T and she knew that it would affect the therapy and me.
From my perspective, the fact that you are nervous about the idea about her meeting alone with him, might be a sign that if she does, it might be damaging to your trust and relationship and alliance with your T if she met with your husband without you.
Those all seem like goals that she could accomplish with you there. I'm not sure how meeting with him alone would help her explain that. In fact, I think if you aren't there, it might be easier for your spouse to dismiss what your T is saying about what you need as just another nutty T. But if you are there, and maybe even better than just being there, your T is helping you talk about those things with him, then it would be harder for him to dismiss it as just coming from another T.
I think the concerns you listed are very natural concerns to have. Maybe she doesn't have any of those goals... but I can understand the concern.
ugh. This reminds me that my old T did call my mother once, without me. I wanted to trust her with it. I think I did trust her enough with it. We talked beforehand about what she would say and not say... and sure enough, the unexpected happened. She told my mother what she thought my FATHER's diagnosis was based on what she observed in me. Then when I met with my T again and she told me this and told me my mom was silent in a way that my T wondered if she had XYZ diagnosis... well, it just bugged me. I think she was trying to help me understand that my reactions and problems with my parents were not all my fault. But to try and diagnose them in one interaction? and/or just based off what I say? That doesn't seem like good diagnosing practices. I wouldn't want my mom's T trying to diagnose me from a distance based on what my mom says to her. I'm not sure how that helps anyone. I think a T can validate that something my mother or father have done is wacky or unhealthy or abuse or whatever... without diagnoising them. Let alone telling them the diagnosis she thought they had. ugh.
That's just my experience - which probably color's my opinion a lot.
I do think her idea of talking with your spouse could potentially be really helpful if it is done with you. My current T talked with my mom and it was super helpful. Even helped with some of the weirdness about the other T.
Your T could talk to him about all the things you mentioned and it could be really helpful for the relationship with your husband as well as the relationship with your T.
I'm guessing couple's therapy is a lot different than individual therapy and I'm so sorry your husband didn't stick with it or even try to find someone he did like... It's gotta be hard that he's not supportive of your therapy now too. that just plain sucks.
I agree with AG. The idea of her meeting with him without you is concerning. My T has talked with family members or other people before, but always with me.
My T met with my mom and my mom might have said more if I wasn't there, but my T said a lot, and helped my mom feel comfortable to really talk with her AND me about a lot of things. It was a hard session, but a really good one. (Im between 25-35 but my mom is a big part of my life and family dynamics were nutty when it came to me and my mom needed help to understand what was up and what she could do to help me in my recovery process.)
My T talked once about how she wouldn't ever meet alone with a family member about me because she wants to protect the "theraputic alliance" with me. I trust my T with a lot, and I think I'd be ok with her meeting with a family member alone - but only kinda ok with it. I think it would still kinda mess with my head, and I think my T knows it would much more than I want to admit. My T said that if my mom had things she needed to talk to someone about regarding me that she could not say with me present, then for the sake of my relationship with my T, and for the sake of the effectiveness of my therapy, my mom needs to find her a T to work on those issues with (and even encouraged my mom to do so, saying it was the best thing she could do for me - have a T to talk with about me when she needed.) My T even said she would have to refuse to be an individual T for my mom just because she was already my T and she knew that it would affect the therapy and me.
From my perspective, the fact that you are nervous about the idea about her meeting alone with him, might be a sign that if she does, it might be damaging to your trust and relationship and alliance with your T if she met with your husband without you.
quote:She wants him to come in so she can explain to him what she sees going on with me, what I'm missing out on in our marriage, why I want a divorce...She just wants to make this separation/divorce easier for me and thinks this would help.
Those all seem like goals that she could accomplish with you there. I'm not sure how meeting with him alone would help her explain that. In fact, I think if you aren't there, it might be easier for your spouse to dismiss what your T is saying about what you need as just another nutty T. But if you are there, and maybe even better than just being there, your T is helping you talk about those things with him, then it would be harder for him to dismiss it as just coming from another T.
I think the concerns you listed are very natural concerns to have. Maybe she doesn't have any of those goals... but I can understand the concern.
quote:She wants to diagnose him. She's been chomping at the bit to "have a crack at him" ever since my first session. She keeps bringing up all these ideas like "Maybe he has Asperger's?" and it's getting a little tiresome. Who cares if he does?! Not my problem!
ugh. This reminds me that my old T did call my mother once, without me. I wanted to trust her with it. I think I did trust her enough with it. We talked beforehand about what she would say and not say... and sure enough, the unexpected happened. She told my mother what she thought my FATHER's diagnosis was based on what she observed in me. Then when I met with my T again and she told me this and told me my mom was silent in a way that my T wondered if she had XYZ diagnosis... well, it just bugged me. I think she was trying to help me understand that my reactions and problems with my parents were not all my fault. But to try and diagnose them in one interaction? and/or just based off what I say? That doesn't seem like good diagnosing practices. I wouldn't want my mom's T trying to diagnose me from a distance based on what my mom says to her. I'm not sure how that helps anyone. I think a T can validate that something my mother or father have done is wacky or unhealthy or abuse or whatever... without diagnoising them. Let alone telling them the diagnosis she thought they had. ugh.
That's just my experience - which probably color's my opinion a lot.
I do think her idea of talking with your spouse could potentially be really helpful if it is done with you. My current T talked with my mom and it was super helpful. Even helped with some of the weirdness about the other T.
Your T could talk to him about all the things you mentioned and it could be really helpful for the relationship with your husband as well as the relationship with your T.
I'm guessing couple's therapy is a lot different than individual therapy and I'm so sorry your husband didn't stick with it or even try to find someone he did like... It's gotta be hard that he's not supportive of your therapy now too. that just plain sucks.
Yikes, Echo. I basically agree with what's already been said. Including your husband sounded like it might be a good idea...but my alarms went off at the "alone" part. I totally agree that your T should be YOUR advocate first and foremost.
During the intake process for our couples therapy, our couples T met once alone with me, and once alone with my husband, presumably to give us the space to bring up anything particularly painful or difficult to bring up in front of each other. BUT that started out as couples and went back to couples.
And from what she said, that doesn't sound like her reason for doing this anyway. Is she under the impression that you don't want to BE there? It just seems weird. All the things "she" wants to explain to him "for" you...seems like the focus is all wrong, even though she probably means well. Shouldn't she be trying to help YOU tell him...and be there to assist him in hearing YOU (since he seems to be having trouble doing that)? A mediator, not a messenger?
And Echo I am SO sorry to hear about the abuse you suffered from your dad. Good for you to get a safe distance away. But those remarks...ooooh. Seeing red at those.
"Hey, I know you said your dad put you through hell, getting drunk and abusing you, keeping you in terror your entire childhood...I empathize, really I do...but look, he's FUNNY! So lighten up, will ya?" Makes my blood boil, that does, especially that your husband said it. Grrr.
(My dad was not a hard drinker or abusive, just really self-centered and neglectful and unreliable. But he had that whole duplicity thing going on, too. So it's a big trigger point for me as well)
You've got a REALLY good point that this is kicking up the same stuff, Echo. "He's a jerk but at least he's HOT" sounds an awful lot like "He's an abuser but at least he's FUNNY". How profoundly beside the point. Ugh. Talk about not being heard. Like screaming at the top of your lungs in a room full of people and no one even looks up.
Echo, you need and deserve someone "in your corner" and I would hate to see your husband charm your T into his corner instead. I don't know if she should talk to him or not, but if she does I definitely think you should be there. Let us know how it goes okay?
Hugs to you,
SG
During the intake process for our couples therapy, our couples T met once alone with me, and once alone with my husband, presumably to give us the space to bring up anything particularly painful or difficult to bring up in front of each other. BUT that started out as couples and went back to couples.
And from what she said, that doesn't sound like her reason for doing this anyway. Is she under the impression that you don't want to BE there? It just seems weird. All the things "she" wants to explain to him "for" you...seems like the focus is all wrong, even though she probably means well. Shouldn't she be trying to help YOU tell him...and be there to assist him in hearing YOU (since he seems to be having trouble doing that)? A mediator, not a messenger?
And Echo I am SO sorry to hear about the abuse you suffered from your dad. Good for you to get a safe distance away. But those remarks...ooooh. Seeing red at those.
"Hey, I know you said your dad put you through hell, getting drunk and abusing you, keeping you in terror your entire childhood...I empathize, really I do...but look, he's FUNNY! So lighten up, will ya?" Makes my blood boil, that does, especially that your husband said it. Grrr. (My dad was not a hard drinker or abusive, just really self-centered and neglectful and unreliable. But he had that whole duplicity thing going on, too. So it's a big trigger point for me as well)
You've got a REALLY good point that this is kicking up the same stuff, Echo. "He's a jerk but at least he's HOT" sounds an awful lot like "He's an abuser but at least he's FUNNY". How profoundly beside the point. Ugh. Talk about not being heard. Like screaming at the top of your lungs in a room full of people and no one even looks up.
Echo, you need and deserve someone "in your corner" and I would hate to see your husband charm your T into his corner instead. I don't know if she should talk to him or not, but if she does I definitely think you should be there. Let us know how it goes okay?
Hugs to you,
SG
Hi, echo...sorry you are in such a hard spot with this. well, my T wanted to meet my husband alone. To be fair, it was because he thought we were beginning marriage counseling, but I didn't feel ready for that, I still need to sort out a lot of stuff about how I'm feeling about my h, alone, without gaurding what I have to say, I guess...maybe, or maybe I just rationalizing...anyway, that is neither here nor there. After it became clear that I wasn't feeling ready to drag my husband along like a dutiful child to do joint counseling yet, my T *still* wanted to meet with my h, since the appointment was already made, I guess it was to see where my husband thinks I am in the therapy. (My h is involoved and I talk about ti with him, T knows this, or I assume he remembers it) Also it was because T know that at some point I will probably make the decision and he wanted to meet my h. My T said that he will meet with my husband alone, if my h wanted to, because he thinks h might feel like T will be biased on my side, and wanted H to know that isn't true.
And even in this situation, I have to say I felt really scared my h would say stuff about me to T that I wasn't ready for T to know yet. then I felt guilty about that, because it is supposed to be completely honest...so I was and am, a bit conflicted, and still trying to figure it out. But your situation seems completely different than that...I kind of got the impression that she is following normal marriage counseling protocol with you, as if you had asked for marriage counseling. Yet I can see where it could be helpful too, for her to know where you are at with your h, what he is like from her perspective, better to help you and understand you. It's a tough call, to trust, or not to trust? I hope you can talk it all out with her before the final decision gets made. Ultimately, it seems to me like it should be your decision.
I am so sorry about your marriage. It is most painful to be in that type of a relationship, I am sure, and also I am so sorry that you have not felt heard and understood at times about your very painful childhood.
Let us know what ends up being decided...I hope you will be at peace with the decision to let he meet him alone or not. I can see why you would feel more comfortable being present.
And even in this situation, I have to say I felt really scared my h would say stuff about me to T that I wasn't ready for T to know yet. then I felt guilty about that, because it is supposed to be completely honest...so I was and am, a bit conflicted, and still trying to figure it out. But your situation seems completely different than that...I kind of got the impression that she is following normal marriage counseling protocol with you, as if you had asked for marriage counseling. Yet I can see where it could be helpful too, for her to know where you are at with your h, what he is like from her perspective, better to help you and understand you. It's a tough call, to trust, or not to trust? I hope you can talk it all out with her before the final decision gets made. Ultimately, it seems to me like it should be your decision.
I am so sorry about your marriage. It is most painful to be in that type of a relationship, I am sure, and also I am so sorry that you have not felt heard and understood at times about your very painful childhood.
Let us know what ends up being decided...I hope you will be at peace with the decision to let he meet him alone or not. I can see why you would feel more comfortable being present.
Hi Echo,
I suspect it's not really about you, it's about other people's inability to face pain. One of the more painful things I've learned over the course of my healing is that there really are very few people who can stay with you when you're in pain. Because it brings them too close to their own buried pain. So instead of being able to hold still and hear you out (which is the most important part, being heard and understood, because as you recognized, you are more than capable of dealing with your stuff!) they cut right to trying to fix you to MAKE THE PAIN STOP so they can continue to push their own away. I'm guessing you're pretty open about your feelings right? Just my two cents, so take it for what's it worth and if it fits.
AG
I suspect it's not really about you, it's about other people's inability to face pain. One of the more painful things I've learned over the course of my healing is that there really are very few people who can stay with you when you're in pain. Because it brings them too close to their own buried pain. So instead of being able to hold still and hear you out (which is the most important part, being heard and understood, because as you recognized, you are more than capable of dealing with your stuff!) they cut right to trying to fix you to MAKE THE PAIN STOP so they can continue to push their own away. I'm guessing you're pretty open about your feelings right? Just my two cents, so take it for what's it worth and if it fits.
AG