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((((MONTE))))

Such a beautiful post. thanks for your kind words towards me. I have a tendency to play devil's advocate and I worry sometimes that I might hurt someones feelings. My official diagnosis is: You are stuck between a rock and a hard place and don't know how to get yourself out. Prescription: the biggest tongs you could ever find in the universe!! Big Grin

I agree with you about the fear of something being greater than the thing itself. Often that is the case. This week I had to tell T about my trauma after 3 1/2 years of seeing him. I gave myself that ultimatum because it's an important piece of information that he needed to know. It was, for me, shit or get off the pot. It wasn't actually difficult in the therapy room but the fallout this week was rough. I called T a lot and had to go in for an extra session. Maybe if you do decide to take the plunge, you can talk to T in advance about what you might be able to do afterwards in the event of fallout. Put some safeguards in place, you know? I think if I had done that, it might have helped but of course, I just sprung the stuff on him without warning and I guess we did the best we could with what we had. Working with me ain't easy because I have this side of me that likes to pretend she can handle everything. Wink

So, back to the relationship. I have read that the relationship itself is more important than the actual therapists orientation. And, it sounds as though you really couldn't trust your T any more than you do. I'm glad the whole boundary thing doesn't bother you. I never realize it's bothering me until there's a reminder that this is a professional relationship and I feel like, AHHHH, right, everything is right with the world and as it should be.

Interesting that you and your T have talked about the fine line he walks with you between compassion/warmth v. challenge/growth. How did that conversation come up? I would like that secure parental attachment too but also know that's not why I am there and so I walk a fine line with myself. I have to pinch myself sometimes, WAKE UP FROM THIS FANTASY. I keep wondering when it'll be enough, you know? How much of his caring is going to be enough so that I will feel ready to fly the coup? I get scared I'm an empty container and no amount of caring will ever fill it up, so why bother? Have you felt the same way?

(((MONTE)))) Will be thinking of you over the coming months. Hope you are able to share with us.

Liese
quote:
And the crying thing...I have a blanket at home that was a cot blanket that somehow I have kept. Old white soft knitted cotton thing, that turns me to emotional mush when I feel it. I have this dumb fantasy that I would take it and he would wrap it round me and hold me in it



Why is that dumb and does it have to be a fantasy? What if you took the blanket in there?

I agree that the talking isn't going to get through to this part of you and this speechless terror that you describe. It isn't something that resides in that part of the brain so it's going to take some alternative methods to get to it. I'm glad that he is open to experimenting with you. That is a great place to move forward from.
Monte,

What if you sit down with T when you see him in 6 weeks and tell him that you are at a point in your life where you feel very committed to making progress, but you are worried that you will simply spin your wheels in therapy and make no progress. Perhaps convey to him how grateful you are to him for having been there for you through all of these years and for providing free counseling services to you. Let him know how much he has helped you, but also be willing to address that you feel that sometimes you reach a point in your therapy where you stop making progress. Ask him to brainstorm with you as to ways that you can stop this from happening this time around. "What do you think I need to do differently this time?" or "what are some ways in which you think we can break through the surface this time?" Rather than talk about the ways in which therapy has left you longing for more progress in the past, talk about the here and now...what you want from therapy going forward and discuss the ways in which that can happen. Get him excited about putting some energy into exploring new avenues with you.

and for what its worth, I often feel the same exact way with my T1. I adore her but I feel stuck in the mud with her a lot. I struggle with finding ways to tell her this without hurting her feelings or seeming ungrateful for all that she has given me so far. But I think they deserve the feedback, just as much as we seek feedback from them about our own progress. They aren't mind readers. THe only way for them to know for certain that they are helping or not helping is to review your counseling with them.
Monte,

Just a question I ask myself and always mean to ask T but never do so I'll throw it out to you. I think you are married, right? My T and I have discussed that I am my H's attachment figure. Throughout my growth in therapy we've taken this into account in terms of how I relate to my H because my growth can make my H insecure. So I try to minimize my H's discomfort.

I guess what I wonder about me and I'll throw this out to you too to get your thoughts on it, is why isn't my H my attachment figure? Is your H your attachment figure? I guess I'm assuming that eventually I will learn to either attach better to my H or not. Is it because I've formed the same distant attachment with him that I had with my parental attachment figure, which wasn't enough then and isn't enough now?

Monte, I'm right there with you in terms of moving forward or not in the relationship. It's a hard one to think through. There is no thinking through it because it doesn't seem like a logical move to make. Monte, do you love your T? Not in terms of being in love with him but do you just love him as a person? Do you struggle with accepting these feelings? Have you talked to you T about this? Don't answer if it's too personal. Just things I struggle with.

xoxoxo

Liese
quote:
then that small inner me might re-experience that old horror of being alone. The fact is I was alone as a little one during times I should've been protected and comforted. In reality he can't undo any of that...I guess he can only support that part of me as it grieves all that stuff.


I'm sorry that you went through that. While you are correct that a T can't go back and undo the past in terms of being there back then, they can change this feeling of being alone and the fear that the little one has of being alone. This is a common issue that comes up for my little ones in T. They were utterly alone when they were hurt and nobody helped them. So, the closer they've gotten to T the more they freak out when they are alone. However, in working on memories with T they often feel as if it is happening again, but at the same time they know they are with T. She has been able to be there for them in a way that allows the body to finally realize that they are not alone now and they won't be. T will be there for them and they are safe. It's hard to explain, but even though she can't be there in the past in a way she is and it changes the body and the nervous system and creates a felt sense of having been cared for and supported in the trauma. It has not been easy to get to that point and allow T to be with us in that process, but it has been worth it.
quote:
Sometimes I think that is another reason why I hesitate to get closer...cos the closer I get to him the more I will see the limitations of what he can offer...and then that small inner me might re-experience that old horror of being alone. The fact is I was alone as a little one during times I should've been protected and comforted. In reality he can't undo any of that...I guess he can only support that part of me as it grieves all that stuff.



Frowner I tried to explain this to my H yesterday. Why T is scary enough to me that I'd ask for a referral rather than continue the process with him, even though my trust and attachment is so strong. I guess it's something that can't be understood unless you experience it. I can't believe how much of our experience is the same, especially the blanking and inability to take charge when your mind has given someone that position of "authority." I have brought that up to my T in my journals several times. What I'm doing now is trying to identify what things make me project that role onto him. Some of it is just that he's a doctor, well-educated, my Dad's age, triggers parental feelings in me. But other things that could be adjusted, like the way the office is set up (makes me feel like office hours in college) and some of the ways he asks questions also feed into it. I don't know if he will make changes, but I figure if we are both aware of it, maybe we will be able to cooperate lessen my need to act the silent, obedient child who isn't safe to express herself.
Monte,

Oh, Monte. I am so glad you have your H and your T. Sometimes it just takes a long time to work things out, right? I wish I had stayed with therapy when I was in my 20's but the pain was still fresh and raw and I couldn't do it. I get embarassed too talking about that stuff with my T. It's hard. You are not splitting hairs about love. You are right. I just don't even know what to do about my positive feelings for my T. I don't know how to manage them. I don't know what he could possible say to me that would be therapeutic. Well, that's lovely. I love you because of what you give me. Not because of what I give you. Although I might like to give you something, the constraints of the relationship are what they are and I'm not allowed to care about you.

Oh, Monte. Take it easy on yourself. When you are ready, it'll all just happen. Monte, how often do you see your T when you go?
Monte, I just want to say that I've been following your thread and I wish I had something insightful to offer you. I do think you have a good, understanding T who wants the best for you and is willing to go the extra mile for you in many ways. I just wonder if he's too afraid to challenge you or to push you because then he loses you again... you go away for awhile. But you are doing it anyway and perhaps if you give him the green light to challenge you more, in a nice and constructive way of course, that you will finding yourself responding to this new, fresher approach to therapy while still knowing down deep that this T cares very much for you. My new T does push and challenge in a nice way and I find that I like it and it lets me stretch a little and we go in new and different directions.

I am really glad you decided to go back and start therapy again. Can you try to take some baby steps. Because each time you risk something and are met with acceptance and kindness you will be willing to risk again and this helps the therapy to move forward. Make a pledge to yourself to try one new tiny thing each session. Take delight in shocking your T or in delighting him...if nothing else.

I will be thinking of you during this time and hope you continue to share this journey with us here and allow us to support you and help you.

For Liese... your dh really cannot be the attachment figure you need to heal the attachment injury because his is your husband not your parent. The attachment wound comes from the inner child who was not allowed to develop in the normal way. Her development has gone awry and she needs to go back and be allowed to develop properly. You would be relating to your dh as a child. Not only that but the needs are intense during this process and it would be difficult for your dh to focus only on your needs (as a T would or should). What would happen when HIS needs enter into the picture? You can BE attached to your husband in the way a spouse is but he is not your parental attachment figure, which is what you need to heal those childhood wounds and to learn what it is to have your needs met.

The best place for this is within the therapeutic relationship. The relations DOES heal despite the T's orientation BUT.... you need a T willing to have this kind of relationship and one who KNOWS HOW to do it and what it's all about. So they have to be willing and able. I learned this the hard way. I hope this helps to answer some of the attachment questions you were asking in your post up above. I know it gets confusing.

Hugs,
TN
((((MONTE)))))

I know how hard it is. It's so hard to face something you've been running away from. Sometimes I feel like a kicking, screaming child covering my ears while someone wants to tell me I'm worth something and I'm screaming, no, no, no, don't tell me that. That someone might just hold me in the sense of not letting me go and say, you belong here. Is that what we're afraid of? I don't want to speak for you.

((((HUGS)))))
Hi Monte...it's nice to see you. I can't really add much of value to the discussion, but I just want to chip in with my support. I think your idea of making a commitment with your T to stay with the process this time no matter what, at least for a predetermined period of time- that you should probably decide on together- is an excellent one. I'd say, just make sure that you don't paint yourself into a corner and end up feeling like you have to leave if significant progress is or isn't made...kwim? Maybe you could even decide together, to make these periods of "no bailing allowed" times longer and longer each time. I think that you are coming up with a a good creative way to help your T meet your needs here. Clearly you *are* making progress. Keep up the good work!

Beebs
I've had to dance around this question with T (usually in writing). He does the same thing where, excepting dissociation, all the jargon has come from my side. Funny enough, about 90% of it I didn't realize was "psych" talk until I came on here. I'm guessing the question you are asking, which I have been asking (after a much shorter term with T), is, "Do you really get it? And if you don't, is it because am I not communicating it or are you incompetent or are we just not a good fit for each ohter?"

I hope you get a satisfying answer!!!

PS - Good for you in taking that step of faith and trusting him enough to ask directly!
Monte,

SO HAPPY FOR YOU!!! Big Grin

Yes, the transparency is such a good thing. After a lifetime of not being known...believing perhaps I am unknowable or unlovable if fully known (at least by anyone other than God, who as a nature of His character MUST love me)...to be known and accepted by T is such a good feeling. But it is also a deep ache (like that longing to see him tomorrow you are feeling). It feels so good, but it hurts, because it brings forth the reality of not having had this experience and the limits of not being able to be with that person who draws the real you out all the time. (((((((((((((Monte))))))))))))))
Monte, I'm really glad for you! It will pay off- anything we do that challenges us tends to have an enormous payoff, I am starting to learn...
It's learning when to allow ourselves to be challenged, and when to allow ourselves to be comforted, I wonder if that is the trick? Getting in touch with our needs, as my T says. Simple concept, but profound in it's deeper meaning. Transparency feels good. Really good. I'm glad for you.

(((Monte)))
Hi Monte!

So glad to hear that you are feeling good about things now. I understand your wanting to see your T now and not have to wait. Ugh. The waiting is torture. But you have much to look forward to, and even though we want it all NOW, we must remind ourselves that it comes a step at a time. Bummer, to say the least. Roll Eyes

quote:
It feels so good, but it hurts, because it brings forth the reality of not having had this experience and the limits of not being able to be with that person who draws the real you out all the time.


I can appreciate this very much too, Yaku. It is so hard for us to experience such deep and profound things with our Ts and yet be limited as to how and when and where we can access these people. I'm feeling the pain of it today after having connected with my T yesterday. Two weeks seems like forever when it's the day after my session. Yes, Monte, it IS hard to accept that the pain comes with the process. I just hope that the pain doesn't last indefinitely. It has to end, right? (crossing fingers, legs and toes Big Grin)

(((Monte)))

MTF
Monte,

It just seems to odd to me that they don't talk about this stuff more to any of us in therapy. I did the same thing as you. I came to the forum, read, oh this is normal, this is what is supposed to happen and so I let myself continue to be part of the process. If it wasn't for the internet, I would have left therapy. I know they probably try to keep it real and genuine but our emotions do get a little freaky sometimes.

Anyway, take it easy on yourself this week as far as how many risks you want to take with T. Maybe try to narrow it down to one thing you really really want to say and maybe push yourself to say that one thing. If you leave too many things out there floating and don't have your thoughts organized, you might wind up not saying anything at all and then leave, feeling disappointed in yourself (and all that bashing that I do) that you didn't bring up what you wanted to bring up. Well, that's what I do to myself anyway.

Good luck this week.

Liese
Hi Monte
I've been in semi hiding for a while but have been following your thread. I'm so hoping your reconnect session goes well - it really sounds like you've come a long way during the break and have made a decision to 'commit' more than at other times!! That's great - don't worry about getting verbally - he'll help you through but maybe write some stuff down to help get the ball rolling!! It's what I do now coz I just go into 'freeze' mode lately!!

Fingers and all crossed for you.
Morgs
Love your siggy, Monte. I know that you and your T use prayer- but I'm wondering if you have ever considered or specifically asked him, to open the session with a prayer- for guidance and grace during it.. It has worked wonders for me in terms of finding the courage to say at least some of what is on my mind and become a little bit clearer in expressing it. Like you I can write and am able to express myself that way until the cows come home, but freak out/space out/blank out/clam up trying to have an honest and open face-to-face conversation. The opening prayer has really helped with that, and specifically when *I* ask for it. Now when T says "what can I help you with?" the dreaded question- I have something to answer with, at least..."can we start with a prayer?" -then I feel protected from him, somewhat, if that makes sense, and like God is guiding the session, not him so much. I also have an image of Christ nearby (harder for you, in person) and sometimes I hold a small cross, as a reminder what it is all about. The sense of connection, making myself do something difficult by speaking truthfully-- is much easier for me with those reminders nearby, as I figure any "punishments" that come I will be able to handle better.

(T doesn't punish me, but it feels that way at times when we can't connect)

sending unsolicited cyber-hug, and yes, prayer,

BB
My T also opens with a prayer. It is the first thing he does, except, "Hi, Yaku, how are you?" and inviting me to come into his office. So, I wouldn't even have the opportunity to ask, because he always asks if we can pray first. Smiler I like that he does it, but sometimes some of the things he says in prayers trigger me. It's weird. I guess, because he knows me so well, he really prays for things that target where I am directly and it's like having a bruise poked or something.

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