Hi Deepfried. I hope you don't mind me jumping in on your thread even though you don't know me yet. It sounds like you're in a lot of pain right now. Your relationship with your parents must be very important to you to carry on with it in spite of all the hurt you've endured at their hands. I've cut off relationship with my parents over much less serious issues than the ones you listed, and I admire your strength to be able to set strong boundaries with them and acknowledge the bad in them, and yet also still acknowledge their goodness. I think it shows great awareness to be able to see both.

I can understand why you are questioning what you are getting out of the relationship, and whether there can be a fruitful future for it. I hope that in whatever you decide, you are able to look after yourself and show yourself the love that your parents should be giving you.

(And sorry for jumping in without starting an official introduction thread. It's nice to meet you, and I hope that it's okay to jump in with little bits as I'm able.)

I wish you all the best, and I hope you are sleeping well by now!

Heading out the door, but I just want to offer you some support. I'm sorry you weren't able to sleep.

I'm sorry I don't have anything helpful for you - just some hugs.

((((DF))))

Yes, I like Saka. :-)

I went cold turkey. I'm impulsive, and also big on avoiding conflict, so I just sent them a letter one day saying that I couldn't have anything more to do with them. That way I didn't have to deal with the conversation about it. That's probably not the healthiest way of doing it, but it worked for me.

I hope that you managed to conquer the impossible, and that you eventually got some sleep!

DF, that is a bad place, and i know the pressure you feel, and you mention guilt...a word that cuts right to the core for me. but, i know i have let 'the fear of guilt' run so much of my life, that i have, in this therapy, had to dissect true and false guilt. guilt is from sin. not having a close relationship with abusers is not sin. in my opinion.

the honor your father and mother thing hung hard on me, but, i have to save myself first and foremost.

one thing to think of, is a decision to not have a relationship with them RIGHT NOW, is not saying FOREVER!! y'no?? i get real black and white on it, but really, there is GREY!! as we are both learning.

my mom, especially, took it as a forever deal. but, i told her, all i can say is RIGHT NOW i cannot have a relationship with you...and i also bought off six months, which turned into nine, with some 'trials' that didn't go well (she cried all the way home...guilt for her bad mommy stuff) that right now, i am the one with open doors but she is staying away (yippee! i love not being the bad guy) because she is afraid of causing a scene at thanksgiving.

anyway, sorry to digress into my stuff, but, you are not sinning, so there is no guilt. you need to do what YOU need to do to preserve your peace and happiness RIGHT NOW, in THIS moment, and you CANNOT predict the future, but, as i told her, pushing MY boundaries right now will just make me dig my heels in harder, and DON'T DARE....(she did, her needs always rule her, to the detriment of whoever is in her way).

ok, df?? just speak for now, let the future take care of itself, and don't obsess (like i did) about it??

your reward???

your sanity. what you can redeem. you FIRST!!

your obligation?? none, only to yourself right now. to get well...YOU, ok?
sorry i just now caught this, hope you are ok...jill

Hi, DF...sorry to jump in late, but I just wanted to offer my support as well. Clearly you have no obligation to have contact with your parents, they sort of forfeited that right. But, it's so hard not to "keep hoping" isn't it? Do they treat you with some respect now? Does it throw you into a tailspin when you see them? Is it worth it...all of these questions are just not easy to sory out. I don't really have the same problem in that it's my mom who has cut off contact with me, or rather, she "exists" and I can either contact her, or not, and that is entirely up to me, since she really doesn't care one way or the other. Kind of the same problem in reverse. The way I seem to handle it, is, do I feel like contacting her, and what will I get out of it if I do? It's a risk...I'm not sure what the answer is, but ultimately, it is a decision that you have to make with yourself and your won needs in mind, I would think. What is your reward...for having contact...and for not having contact...such a good question.

I am so sorry, words fail me at the way they have treated you. You are inspiring in your ability to see any good in them, and in your search for healing...and in the way you reach out to others with so much compassion as well. Let us know how it goes...I hope so much you will get some good rest.

Love,

BB

Hi DF,
I am also sorry I'm late to this thread. I'm sorry you're in so much pain, dealing with our parents when there is a history of abuse is an abosolute minefield and very painful. Your cry of "what do I get out of this" sounded like it came straight from your core.

I went through this with my mother (I was estranged from my father from the time I was 11 until he died when I was 39, he abandoned me and I actively prevented him finding me later. I've actually written the whole story of when he died somewhere around her.)

I'm would definitely not presume that what I'm going to say would apply to anyone but me. I think that everyone struggles to find the place they can stand where they can find the most peace. I understand for some people that is to have no contact because that is the only way to protect themselves from continuing to be hurt. On the other hand, I understand people who want to maintain contact, because this is such a significant relationship, and even in the case of horrible abuse, not all of it may have been bad. I honestly do NOT second guess people when it comes to their relationship with their parents.

There was a time when I was really enmeshed with my mom and the relationship was pretty much on her terms. I called her, I came to visit her, I accomodated my life to her, and I apologized constantly. The first step in breaking this was getting married and having my husband, an outsider, start asking what were in retrospect, very obvious questions, such as "why doesn't she ever come to hear to visit?" I have lived in my current place of residence for 27 years and she's been to visit four times, three of which were my wedding and the birth of each of my daughters.

My dad was the one that abused me, my mother failed to protect me. It took me a long time to get at my anger with her, and it's also been harder to forgive her.

But as I got healthier, I had to pull back from the enmeshment and since that's the only way my mom does relationships, it then became obvious just how weak the connection between us was. But there was a long period where I stayed and kept getting hurt over and over and like you, thought, it's my fault, I know what happens.

Working with my T helped me to understand what I was doing. I've talked in a lot of posts about our still looking for what we didn't get, but can't. I was doing that with my mother. On some level, no matter what she did to me, this woman is MY MOTHER, it's a highly significant relationship and no matter what I THINK about it, I cannot reduce it's emotional significance. Something I said over and over to my T was "how bad do you have to be that your own mother didn't protect you?" One of the beliefs that I uncovered from my childhood was the belief that my mother didn't stop the abuse because I must have deserved it. I am extremely clear now that isn't true. But I think for the longest time, I kept going back despite knowing how it always turned out, in the hope that if I could finally get what I wanted from her, and have a good, close relationship, then I'd finally feel ok.

It took an enormous amount of painful work for me to finally face some bitter truths. My mother is not the person I want her to be, nor will she ever be. My heart longs to have a close warm loving relationship in which I am accepted and cherished and known. I do have those, but not with my mother. She is not capable. And I had to mourn the loss of that. Letting myself know I was never going to get that, really hurt because then there was no hope between me and my grief. But once I acknowledged that she IS important to me, I do want more (being honest about how I felt and what my needs were) and then facing that I couldn't get what I want or need, freed me up in a strange way.

Things came to a head when my beloved MIL who lived with us died. It's a long story (which again I've told elsewhere ) but my mother did NOTHING, no card, no phone call, no flowers, nothing. I was so angry I didn't speak to her for a year. And I came to the clear realization that if she were not my mother, she was not a person I would ever have anything to do with again. But she IS my mother and I can't change that.

Free of the enmeshment, and having mourned the loss of what I wanted, freed me to decide what I wanted to do, not out of misplaced guilt, or fear, or in a continued attempt to meet her needs in the hope she'd meet mine, but based on the kind of person I want to be. I am able to recognize (again after a lot of work) that as much injury as there was, there was also a lot of care. My mother's childhood was a barren wasteland, and the truth is, that although she failed me in very significant ways that I have a right to feel angry and injured about, she gave much better than what she got. So I have chosen to continue in the relationship but I only contact her or see her when I feel strong enough to do so. When I know that I can remain clear and deal with the unconscious stuff that will inevitably get stirred up.

Now that I have stopped looking for what I will never get from her, it has freed me up to see some of the good which is still there and I am also able to acknowledge my own feelings. The last time I saw her, I experienced a lot of sadness after I left. She never once asked me ONE question about my life and it hurt. I am sad that there is so little between us, but because I no longer need to keep her as the good mother from whom I could finally get what I wanted, I was free to experience those feelings about the relationship. This keeps me much safer around her. But I believe there will always be sadness around this relationship.

My T and I were discussing this one time, especially about being enmeshed versus being a whole person and how that would affect the relationship and I made the comment that I was still learning, but I would find my balance around my mother between being connected and taking care of myself and my T said something very poignant to me. "Yes, you will find your balance, but you're not supposed to have to with your mother." It both acknowledged the reality of the situation I was in but expressed deep compassion for how wrong it was and the pain involved.

So DF, what I'm really trying to say is that you shouldn't have to ask what is your reward. This relationship should be providing so much more for you without you're having to even ask for it, let alone still be waiting for it. Be compassionate with yourself and honest about your feelings so that you can find a place that honors who you are now and what you're willing to do. And know that finally and ultimately, by right, that is your decision and yours alone and what you chose will be right for you.

AG

DF, i hope things are going better for you. i empathize with your angst. i wish i had answers, i am searching myself, and like you, felt so teary with ag's insight. ag, what you wrote was so helpful to me, too.

(((DF)))) jill