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Welcome to the Board Permafrost (PF? We tend to abbreviate on here 
) and your post is certainly not too long and I read it with interest.
Your past indicates that you did have early trauma in your childhood, with good reason, and that you are struggling with a T who seems to you to be detached and remote. Is it that you see no reaction in her to what you have to say? Maybe she listens but displays no emotion? You do say, though, that she is empathetic... can you explain in which way you see her as empathetic?
I experienced some bullying in middle school (7-9th grades) and those years were so hard for me. My parents were not the kind you went to with issues so I tried to deal with it by myself. I learned not to ask for stuff and to this day find it hard to accept help or ask for it. I know how the bullying affected me and mine was not long-term nor severe so I can only imagine how you struggled and the damage it left you with. I'm sorry.
Some Ts I think prefer to work on a non-emotional level and seem to be more matter of fact... and perhaps this is their boundary. They may need to maintain a distance in order to do the work with a patient. But I think your concerns are VERY valid and you need to talk to her about them. You don't want to change Ts so it's best to work out the kinks with the one you have. You should be able to discuss anything you want to in therapy and ask any questions as well. It's up to the T to decide if she/he will answer them. And if they cannot then they should be willing to say why they feel they cannot answer the question. It's all grist for the mill... all worth talking about. And by doing this... having these conversations you will find yourself feeling safer (hopefully) and more trusting of your T and this will take the relationship to the next level and you will feel more able to talk about the hard stuff.
My only slight concern here is that your T is a CBT therapist and she may not be familiar with working with trauma and deep seated, childhood hurts and abuse. CBT is good for specific phobias and it's a tool for managing anxiety but to really get down deep to the causes of both of those things, then the T has to be willing to delve into the past and feel comfortable with not only discussing it but also with the patient's attachment, dependency and need for reassurance.
Can I ask if you feel "attached" to your T? Do you have outside of session contact with her? Do you want to?
I know your fears of being too much for her, her not being able to handle what you need to talk about... this is common for those of us with trauma... but it could be how we feel or it could be true... that she does not have the experience to handle this. You will find out by talking further with her and by working first on the relationship before you work on the trauma.
I recently started working with a new T (have seen him now for 11 sessions) after being with a T for almost 3 years who harshly and traumatically terminated me (you may have read my story on here) and I have had a really hard time connecting with any other T. My old T was very emotionally reactive with me and I missed that and was looking for it in another T. I saw 5 Ts before this new one. I didn't feel warmth from any of them and there was no conenction. But this last T I see now... I am finally starting to feel the glimmer of warmth from him. He is not visibly emotive but his warmth and empathy is there in how he relates to me, in his responsiveness, in his body language. He has also told me flat out that he likes me... which was helpful in a way and scary in another way (another story for another day). In my case it could be that I'm so filled with grief it blocks reception of anything from anyone or that I'm too terrified to see caring from any other T. Not sure. What i'm saying is that maybe your T does care for you and is showing it in her way but you are so skittish you are not picking it up from her. So talk to her about it.
Good luck and welcome to the Board. Look forward to getting to know you better.
TN
) and your post is certainly not too long and I read it with interest.Your past indicates that you did have early trauma in your childhood, with good reason, and that you are struggling with a T who seems to you to be detached and remote. Is it that you see no reaction in her to what you have to say? Maybe she listens but displays no emotion? You do say, though, that she is empathetic... can you explain in which way you see her as empathetic?
I experienced some bullying in middle school (7-9th grades) and those years were so hard for me. My parents were not the kind you went to with issues so I tried to deal with it by myself. I learned not to ask for stuff and to this day find it hard to accept help or ask for it. I know how the bullying affected me and mine was not long-term nor severe so I can only imagine how you struggled and the damage it left you with. I'm sorry.
Some Ts I think prefer to work on a non-emotional level and seem to be more matter of fact... and perhaps this is their boundary. They may need to maintain a distance in order to do the work with a patient. But I think your concerns are VERY valid and you need to talk to her about them. You don't want to change Ts so it's best to work out the kinks with the one you have. You should be able to discuss anything you want to in therapy and ask any questions as well. It's up to the T to decide if she/he will answer them. And if they cannot then they should be willing to say why they feel they cannot answer the question. It's all grist for the mill... all worth talking about. And by doing this... having these conversations you will find yourself feeling safer (hopefully) and more trusting of your T and this will take the relationship to the next level and you will feel more able to talk about the hard stuff.
My only slight concern here is that your T is a CBT therapist and she may not be familiar with working with trauma and deep seated, childhood hurts and abuse. CBT is good for specific phobias and it's a tool for managing anxiety but to really get down deep to the causes of both of those things, then the T has to be willing to delve into the past and feel comfortable with not only discussing it but also with the patient's attachment, dependency and need for reassurance.
Can I ask if you feel "attached" to your T? Do you have outside of session contact with her? Do you want to?
I know your fears of being too much for her, her not being able to handle what you need to talk about... this is common for those of us with trauma... but it could be how we feel or it could be true... that she does not have the experience to handle this. You will find out by talking further with her and by working first on the relationship before you work on the trauma.
I recently started working with a new T (have seen him now for 11 sessions) after being with a T for almost 3 years who harshly and traumatically terminated me (you may have read my story on here) and I have had a really hard time connecting with any other T. My old T was very emotionally reactive with me and I missed that and was looking for it in another T. I saw 5 Ts before this new one. I didn't feel warmth from any of them and there was no conenction. But this last T I see now... I am finally starting to feel the glimmer of warmth from him. He is not visibly emotive but his warmth and empathy is there in how he relates to me, in his responsiveness, in his body language. He has also told me flat out that he likes me... which was helpful in a way and scary in another way (another story for another day). In my case it could be that I'm so filled with grief it blocks reception of anything from anyone or that I'm too terrified to see caring from any other T. Not sure. What i'm saying is that maybe your T does care for you and is showing it in her way but you are so skittish you are not picking it up from her. So talk to her about it.
Good luck and welcome to the Board. Look forward to getting to know you better.
TN
Hi Permafrost,
Welcome to the forums! Sorry I haven't said hello sooner, but I just got back from vacation. You've gotten some great responses, so I'm going to keep this short.
All of the questions and feelings you are describing very much sound like someone who is struggling with the fear that moving closer and opening up to someone is going to get them hurt. Human beings are supposed to move closer to connection to get their needs met, and be comforted when in pain. When you do that, and your needs are not met, or even worse, you are hurt because you made your needs known, it can become very difficult to move closer. This leaves you in a real bind, you need to move closer to get your needs met, but moving closer feels like the most dangerous thing you can do.
So I think that as you move closer to your therapist, alot of things are getting kicked up, feelings, desires and fears. For me, the path to healing lay in bringing all those things to light and talking to my T about them, despite the fear (oftentimes the terror)
It's really good that you are becoming conscious of this stuff.
I also wanted to comment on the distance issue. As TN pointed out, this could be a therapist who prefers not to do intense emotional work (some CBTs don't, but many can also be comfortable with it. My T mixed some CBT stuff into our work together.) in which case, opening up to her is even more important. If she's not the right match in order to do the work you need to do, better to find it out now, so that you can find someone who can before using more of your time and resources on something that won't work.
On the other hand, a certain amount of detachment is necessary in the most accessible and caring of Ts. They are not your friend, and have to retain a certain level of objectivity in order to help you. Ts sometimes have to say difficult things to us, and often need to be able to tolerate our being in pain, because we need to experience that pain to heal. If they get TOO emotionally involved, you can end up in a re-enactment, or an enmeshment where the boundaries get really blurred. When that happens, almost invariably, the client ends up extremely hurt. My T is a really wonderful, warm empathetic man but there always was a certain distance. I often hated it, and we spent more than one session discussing my discomfort and sometimes my rage about it (I once told him I wasn't a f---ing specimen for him to experiment on.
) but in the end, I came to accept that it was necessary to do the work we needed to do. I also came to recognize that my perceptions of him were often clouded and deeply influenced by my experiences and feelings in the past. There was some distance in the necessary detachment, but I also think I saw distance because I KNEW it was going to be there based on past experience, if that makes sense.
The only way to sort it out, is to talk to your T and pay attention to her response. If she is open and willing to hear and discuss all your feelings without getting defensive about what's she's doing, that's a good sign she knows what she's doing. And the only way to find out if you're right about how she's feeling is to ask her. Hope some of that helps.
AG
Welcome to the forums! Sorry I haven't said hello sooner, but I just got back from vacation. You've gotten some great responses, so I'm going to keep this short.
All of the questions and feelings you are describing very much sound like someone who is struggling with the fear that moving closer and opening up to someone is going to get them hurt. Human beings are supposed to move closer to connection to get their needs met, and be comforted when in pain. When you do that, and your needs are not met, or even worse, you are hurt because you made your needs known, it can become very difficult to move closer. This leaves you in a real bind, you need to move closer to get your needs met, but moving closer feels like the most dangerous thing you can do.
So I think that as you move closer to your therapist, alot of things are getting kicked up, feelings, desires and fears. For me, the path to healing lay in bringing all those things to light and talking to my T about them, despite the fear (oftentimes the terror
)It's really good that you are becoming conscious of this stuff.
I also wanted to comment on the distance issue. As TN pointed out, this could be a therapist who prefers not to do intense emotional work (some CBTs don't, but many can also be comfortable with it. My T mixed some CBT stuff into our work together.) in which case, opening up to her is even more important. If she's not the right match in order to do the work you need to do, better to find it out now, so that you can find someone who can before using more of your time and resources on something that won't work.
On the other hand, a certain amount of detachment is necessary in the most accessible and caring of Ts. They are not your friend, and have to retain a certain level of objectivity in order to help you. Ts sometimes have to say difficult things to us, and often need to be able to tolerate our being in pain, because we need to experience that pain to heal. If they get TOO emotionally involved, you can end up in a re-enactment, or an enmeshment where the boundaries get really blurred. When that happens, almost invariably, the client ends up extremely hurt. My T is a really wonderful, warm empathetic man but there always was a certain distance. I often hated it, and we spent more than one session discussing my discomfort and sometimes my rage about it (I once told him I wasn't a f---ing specimen for him to experiment on.
) but in the end, I came to accept that it was necessary to do the work we needed to do. I also came to recognize that my perceptions of him were often clouded and deeply influenced by my experiences and feelings in the past. There was some distance in the necessary detachment, but I also think I saw distance because I KNEW it was going to be there based on past experience, if that makes sense. The only way to sort it out, is to talk to your T and pay attention to her response. If she is open and willing to hear and discuss all your feelings without getting defensive about what's she's doing, that's a good sign she knows what she's doing. And the only way to find out if you're right about how she's feeling is to ask her. Hope some of that helps.
AG
hi PF,
I agree with and echo everything that's been offered here so far, especially by TN and AG. Getting a read on how or if your T is comfortable with working with those deeper feelings by talking about it is a good idea. There's a lot at stake for you, so best to vet the situation to see if your T is available for that kind of work.
I also agree with TN's concern about her being a CBT. She may very well be open to doing more in-depth emotional work, but sometimes CBTs aren't, so it might be a good idea to ask her directly about that, and be as clear as possible about what you mean. Maybe even ask her if she has experience in doing that kind of therapy.
As far as the professional distance thing goes, everyone here knows that I swing back and forth on it, but it seems that - within ethical boundaries of course - the "correct" amount and quality of overt emotional closeness is different for everyone. The bottom line is if it leads to real healing for you, then whatever that level of closeness is that you have in your therapy is the best. But, your response to her distance is an really important feeling.
Keep us informed.
Russ
I agree with and echo everything that's been offered here so far, especially by TN and AG. Getting a read on how or if your T is comfortable with working with those deeper feelings by talking about it is a good idea. There's a lot at stake for you, so best to vet the situation to see if your T is available for that kind of work.
I also agree with TN's concern about her being a CBT. She may very well be open to doing more in-depth emotional work, but sometimes CBTs aren't, so it might be a good idea to ask her directly about that, and be as clear as possible about what you mean. Maybe even ask her if she has experience in doing that kind of therapy.
quote:And she is empathetic but I’m not sure how much she cares. She’s so...distant and I’m not sure whether I like it.
As far as the professional distance thing goes, everyone here knows that I swing back and forth on it, but it seems that - within ethical boundaries of course - the "correct" amount and quality of overt emotional closeness is different for everyone. The bottom line is if it leads to real healing for you, then whatever that level of closeness is that you have in your therapy is the best. But, your response to her distance is an really important feeling.
Keep us informed.
Russ
Wow, PM, you were brave and took that risk and were honest and open and look how wonderfully it paid off for you. You heard so many good things from your T and you now realize that she does like you!! What a wonderful way to begin a break.
And if you start to forget that she cares and likes you we will remind you, don't worry It also shows what good can come from opening up ourselves and expressing our needs to someone who is safe. Hopefully, this will continue and lead into other areas where you are feeling scared to go because now you realize that your T is capable and willing to go with you and be there for you.
Great work!
TN
And if you start to forget that she cares and likes you we will remind you, don't worry
It also shows what good can come from opening up ourselves and expressing our needs to someone who is safe. Hopefully, this will continue and lead into other areas where you are feeling scared to go because now you realize that your T is capable and willing to go with you and be there for you.Great work!
TN
Great work PF! I'm so pleased to hear how well your session turned out and that taking that risk paid off. Good for you!