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(((((PF))))))
What if you do this: you tell your T that you want to update her on the food phobia homework/issues, but that you are also scared to have the conversation and for it to feel safe to you, you need to limit the discussion to 5 minutes?
My T2 suggested this to me regarding a difficult topic for me that I want to work through....but is also painful for me to discuss. When she said that, I thought "wow...what a great idea!" and it made me feel so much safer bringing up anything in T because I know that if it gets uncomfortable, I can simply change the subject.
Thoughts?
What if you do this: you tell your T that you want to update her on the food phobia homework/issues, but that you are also scared to have the conversation and for it to feel safe to you, you need to limit the discussion to 5 minutes?
My T2 suggested this to me regarding a difficult topic for me that I want to work through....but is also painful for me to discuss. When she said that, I thought "wow...what a great idea!" and it made me feel so much safer bringing up anything in T because I know that if it gets uncomfortable, I can simply change the subject.
Thoughts?
frosty
Frosty you do not have to do anything you don't want to, ever. That is the very first thing to remember. I have had some CBT for a phobia a few years ago and it worked really well, but I remember that there was a fine balance between enough slight anxiety necesary for me to feel the fear and ride through it and come out the other side; and being totally overwhelmed.
T was absolutely painstaking in making sure that I didn't feel overwhelmed ever, as that was counterproductive. So IMO you shouldn't suddenly go from talking about a fear for the first time and suddenly having to, say eat that food you dread the next week. That would be counterproductive. But instead you might want to think that food without eating it for a while until that feels comfortable, then say touch it etc etc all in baby steps, week by week. If one step feels too awful, then it means you need to go back until you find a step that you can do. I really think that a brave enough step will be for you to just tell T about this fear tomorrow, you are NOT a drama queen frosty, this is really difficult for you. Perhaps make a deal with T that you want to tell her something but not discuss it or take it further just now, that the telling will be enough for now.
Good luck frosty, remember you are the one in control,
starfish
Frosty you do not have to do anything you don't want to, ever. That is the very first thing to remember. I have had some CBT for a phobia a few years ago and it worked really well, but I remember that there was a fine balance between enough slight anxiety necesary for me to feel the fear and ride through it and come out the other side; and being totally overwhelmed.
T was absolutely painstaking in making sure that I didn't feel overwhelmed ever, as that was counterproductive. So IMO you shouldn't suddenly go from talking about a fear for the first time and suddenly having to, say eat that food you dread the next week. That would be counterproductive. But instead you might want to think that food without eating it for a while until that feels comfortable, then say touch it etc etc all in baby steps, week by week. If one step feels too awful, then it means you need to go back until you find a step that you can do. I really think that a brave enough step will be for you to just tell T about this fear tomorrow, you are NOT a drama queen frosty, this is really difficult for you. Perhaps make a deal with T that you want to tell her something but not discuss it or take it further just now, that the telling will be enough for now.
Good luck frosty, remember you are the one in control,
starfish
i am so sorry, frosty. Take your time and let us know what happened if you want to when you`re ready. You know what they say- after horrible sessions comes better ones ahead.. (or something).
Dont beat yourself up, hun!
Dont beat yourself up, hun!
((frosty))
As you know I've had a houseguest and am now catching up on posts - read about the food phobia and homework worries and really like LadyGrey and Starfish's suggestions
and I'm so sorry to see the session wasn't okay 
Do please tell us what happened when you're less upset won't you?) As Frog has posted "don't beat yourself up" - it just happens that way sometimes
Lots of
Morgs
As you know I've had a houseguest and am now catching up on posts - read about the food phobia and homework worries and really like LadyGrey and Starfish's suggestions
and I'm so sorry to see the session wasn't okay Do please tell us what happened when you're less upset won't you?) As Frog has posted "don't beat yourself up" - it just happens that way sometimes Lots of
Morgs
(((Frosty))) So sorry to hear of your horrible time in session. We are here when you want to talk about it.
(((Frosty))))
I am sorry you are having such a rough time, i hope you are okay?
Pan
I am sorry you are having such a rough time, i hope you are okay?
Pan
Hugs ((((frosty)))) I'm so sorry it feels so hard. It is not your fault, you will come through this difficult patch, but I understand how a bad session can throw you and knock your confidence. Hang in there,
starfish
starfish
Oh Frosty, i am sorry, that does sound like an awful session and i wish she had noticed more of what was going on in you and not sort of carried on oblivious.
I really don't know too much about anything but it sounds to me as if you have dropped your guard a bit and that it is what is causing this panic / anxiety reaction. I have not had a genuine panic attack but i have had very similar anxiety experiences to what you described and it definately got much worse when i started therapy.
For about a year and a half (when i started therapy) i went from having a vague sense of there being something wrong to living with full blown anxiety on a daily basis, so much so that i couldn't sleep for weeks at a time etc. It was hell.
What happened for me is that as i slowly began feeling all those feelings i had buried for so long, i panicked and my anxiety rocketed. Frosty for me one of the most healing moments was when i was able to tell my T during the session that i was panicking. I was trying to tell him something and couldn't and started panicking and he was so calm and said okay well lets have a look at what is happening and made me sit quite still and just feel the feelings. I kept saying i can't do this because everything in me was screaming i was in danger but he kept saying but you can and you are doing it. It took me a long time to understand what he meant.
I cannot tell you that it was quick or easy, it is relearning how to live and feel and it was terrifying for me. I kept promising myself that i would never have to go and see my T again, i was convinced therapy was the problem and making it worse etc. But that was just on the surface, underneath i knew, like you do that life is not worth living when you live in this prison of fear and the walls are slowly closing in.
I am a year down the line from the very worst of the anxiety and my life is so different now, i catch up with my T occasionally or if i am a bit stuck but i have learnt how to be different. So please, please, please give it a chance, take a deep breath and go back and tell your T some of what was happening for you in that session. Often we have got so good at hiding our feelings that people honestly have no idea that inside you are falling apart.
If it is easier print out what you posted and take that, anything that helps you get it out.
I think that the greatest thing my T taught me is that yes, ultimately we are all alone but what i didn't know before was that i did actually have it in me to be okay, to support myself emotionally, and to contain and survive my own sadness or anxiety.
My dear frosty, i wish that was easy and instant but it isn't, to get better takes huge effort and diligence, you have to keep showing up, meeting yourself as you are. It does get easier and one day down the line you will be here on the forum telling someone else what i am telling you now.
Love
Pan
I really don't know too much about anything but it sounds to me as if you have dropped your guard a bit and that it is what is causing this panic / anxiety reaction. I have not had a genuine panic attack but i have had very similar anxiety experiences to what you described and it definately got much worse when i started therapy.
For about a year and a half (when i started therapy) i went from having a vague sense of there being something wrong to living with full blown anxiety on a daily basis, so much so that i couldn't sleep for weeks at a time etc. It was hell.
What happened for me is that as i slowly began feeling all those feelings i had buried for so long, i panicked and my anxiety rocketed. Frosty for me one of the most healing moments was when i was able to tell my T during the session that i was panicking. I was trying to tell him something and couldn't and started panicking and he was so calm and said okay well lets have a look at what is happening and made me sit quite still and just feel the feelings. I kept saying i can't do this because everything in me was screaming i was in danger but he kept saying but you can and you are doing it. It took me a long time to understand what he meant.
I cannot tell you that it was quick or easy, it is relearning how to live and feel and it was terrifying for me. I kept promising myself that i would never have to go and see my T again, i was convinced therapy was the problem and making it worse etc. But that was just on the surface, underneath i knew, like you do that life is not worth living when you live in this prison of fear and the walls are slowly closing in.
I am a year down the line from the very worst of the anxiety and my life is so different now, i catch up with my T occasionally or if i am a bit stuck but i have learnt how to be different. So please, please, please give it a chance, take a deep breath and go back and tell your T some of what was happening for you in that session. Often we have got so good at hiding our feelings that people honestly have no idea that inside you are falling apart.
If it is easier print out what you posted and take that, anything that helps you get it out.
I think that the greatest thing my T taught me is that yes, ultimately we are all alone but what i didn't know before was that i did actually have it in me to be okay, to support myself emotionally, and to contain and survive my own sadness or anxiety.
My dear frosty, i wish that was easy and instant but it isn't, to get better takes huge effort and diligence, you have to keep showing up, meeting yourself as you are. It does get easier and one day down the line you will be here on the forum telling someone else what i am telling you now.
Love
Pan
Pan-
I love the way that you described how you could finally sit and feel your feelings during the therapy session, during an anxiety attack. Frosty, I have experienced similiar feelings to this each and every therapy session. It feels horrible and then I feel like I am wasting my money because I can no longer listen to anything t. is saying because I am having such a bad panic attack. I totally agree with what Pan said about having to share what you are feeling with your t. and she will help you be there with those feelings in the moment. It is the hardest thing I have ever had to do, I'm pretty sure. I tried it twice so far (letting t. know when I am panicking, and trying to listen to all her guidance such as, sit with the feelings, accept them, identify them). It didn't go over very well both times I tried to do this, but I know I need to keep practicing because this is the only way the session will feel better.
Frosty, I totally understand how hard it feels right now! I am sorry that your session was like that!
I love the way that you described how you could finally sit and feel your feelings during the therapy session, during an anxiety attack. Frosty, I have experienced similiar feelings to this each and every therapy session. It feels horrible and then I feel like I am wasting my money because I can no longer listen to anything t. is saying because I am having such a bad panic attack. I totally agree with what Pan said about having to share what you are feeling with your t. and she will help you be there with those feelings in the moment. It is the hardest thing I have ever had to do, I'm pretty sure. I tried it twice so far (letting t. know when I am panicking, and trying to listen to all her guidance such as, sit with the feelings, accept them, identify them). It didn't go over very well both times I tried to do this, but I know I need to keep practicing because this is the only way the session will feel better.
Frosty, I totally understand how hard it feels right now! I am sorry that your session was like that!
(((Frosty)))
I am sorry you had such a horrible session.
You have so much going on for you at the moment, it sounds like by telling your T of everything that was going on it was just too much for you. I am not suprised you felt anger, I can't believe your T didn't pick up just how bad you were feeling. It makes me feel angry just reading about her lack of acknowledgement of your feelings in the moment.
Frosy, I think this is a big deal, I know how it is to feel so alone and for someone to expect you too let your guard down but then send you off into a world where you have to cope alone.
You really have got a lot on your plate, I can understand why thoughts of dying would be easier, I have been there, but I know from the posts I have read of yours that you are such a strong and caring person. Please know these feelings won't last forever.
Be gentle with yourself.
Many hugs
Butterfly
I am sorry you had such a horrible session.
You have so much going on for you at the moment, it sounds like by telling your T of everything that was going on it was just too much for you. I am not suprised you felt anger, I can't believe your T didn't pick up just how bad you were feeling. It makes me feel angry just reading about her lack of acknowledgement of your feelings in the moment.
Frosy, I think this is a big deal, I know how it is to feel so alone and for someone to expect you too let your guard down but then send you off into a world where you have to cope alone.
You really have got a lot on your plate, I can understand why thoughts of dying would be easier, I have been there, but I know from the posts I have read of yours that you are such a strong and caring person. Please know these feelings won't last forever.
Be gentle with yourself.
Many hugs
Butterfly
Frosty
I hate to read how you suffered inside during that session - it must have felt real torture for you to get through that hour....and now you can only worry about how it's going to be next time, so you end up on a horrid loop.
But looking at your post from the outside a few things stand out. Firstly that you DID get through that session without any rushes to the bathroom, so well done for that. Secondly you say that these episodes are becoming more frequent, so maybe it is inevitable that they will materialise in therapy, when your body is under a bit more under stress than usual. Frosty I know you will hate me saying this, but the therapy room is probably the safest place for any fear or panic to come out - yes, you would rather it didn't of course, but if you can trust your T then she can help you through this....and will probably have had experience of other people feeling exactly the same.
Frosty you talk about all those hurts as a child, I am so very sorry that you had to experience all that sadness. So it seems you had to literally squash all your feelings and emotions down in order to simply get by. But they cannot stay squashed for ever and maybe they are starting to emerge now. I TOTALLY get what you write about letting emotion out in session and then going home and being alone with it all afterwards - I have that as a huge fear myself, it's often what has stopped me taking steps forward in sessions....I feel safe with my T but can't be sure of the same feelings of safety and security once home, especially if it involves crying
Frosty it sounds as if your T does understand what is going on for you. This isn't going to be a quick-fix I don't think, unfortunately it never is is it?, but I do believe you can get through this frosty. I tell myself that there HAS to be something better than what I have at the moment and that what drives me on always.
Sending you hugs ((((frosty)))) and a little self belief that you CAN do this frosty,
starfish
ps Pan's suggestion of writing out your post to give to her is a good one I think - scary to do, but good
I hate to read how you suffered inside during that session - it must have felt real torture for you to get through that hour....and now you can only worry about how it's going to be next time, so you end up on a horrid loop.
But looking at your post from the outside a few things stand out. Firstly that you DID get through that session without any rushes to the bathroom, so well done for that. Secondly you say that these episodes are becoming more frequent, so maybe it is inevitable that they will materialise in therapy, when your body is under a bit more under stress than usual. Frosty I know you will hate me saying this, but the therapy room is probably the safest place for any fear or panic to come out - yes, you would rather it didn't of course, but if you can trust your T then she can help you through this....and will probably have had experience of other people feeling exactly the same.
Frosty you talk about all those hurts as a child, I am so very sorry that you had to experience all that sadness. So it seems you had to literally squash all your feelings and emotions down in order to simply get by. But they cannot stay squashed for ever and maybe they are starting to emerge now. I TOTALLY get what you write about letting emotion out in session and then going home and being alone with it all afterwards - I have that as a huge fear myself, it's often what has stopped me taking steps forward in sessions....I feel safe with my T but can't be sure of the same feelings of safety and security once home, especially if it involves crying
Frosty it sounds as if your T does understand what is going on for you. This isn't going to be a quick-fix I don't think, unfortunately it never is is it?, but I do believe you can get through this frosty. I tell myself that there HAS to be something better than what I have at the moment and that what drives me on always.
Sending you hugs ((((frosty)))) and a little self belief that you CAN do this frosty,
starfish
ps Pan's suggestion of writing out your post to give to her is a good one I think - scary to do, but good
Hey Frosty, glad you posted, i have been thinking... okay, okay worrying about you.
The bad news is that it took about 18 months for the anxiety to settle, but the good news is it didn't just settle it disappeared, as in like went away, gone, kaput, finished.
And BTW, the idea of sitting with my panic was incomprehensible to me, the urge to run and/or hide was so strong it was overriding. The funny thing is that from the outside my T couldn't see it or even hear it in my voice at all. It was one of the wierd but helpful things to learn, that the sky was falling in only in my head but that it was not 'real reality' as i like to differentiate it.
I had to tell him what was going on, like, "My feet want to run out the door," and on the phone, "My hands are sweating and my heart is thumping." and he was quite casual about it, "Oh well you don't sound like it, or but you are still here" which kind of took me aback because it was true.
It is both a blessing and a curse, and terribly confusing up until that point when you get it, that the panic and wanting to run feeling that is so overpowering is not a true reflection that you are in danger and that you don't have to believe it. For me it required great trust in my T because i had to find a way to trust him enough to convince myself that he was not going to hurt me even when 99,9% of me believed he was going to. That was the hardest part.
The sitting with it is crucial though, because it is the only way to sort out what is real and what isn't and the only place i guess i felt safe enough was with my T because i was too scared to feel that scared all by myself.
I couldn't tell what was real Frosty, i couldn't make sense of the simplest feelings and emotions and i had to reality check so many things until i started being able to tell for myself. It was hard to be that vulnerable when every part of my character had developed to be so in control that i was never vunerable, never unprepared and never, ever caught off guard.
You know like not eating before your session so you dont need the loo? Well that is the kind of control that is making your life hell and imprisoning you in your fear. My T taught me to be willing to risk it, to allow a glimmer of possiblity to enter into the disaster scenario i was writing in my head. I had things so under control i couldn't breath and it took a lot of practice to start thinking well, what if i just had to find a toilet, or what if i ate and was actually okay? What if i could survive something going wrong or the embarrassing or unexpected happening?
My T was also CBT and we had to drop the whole idea of lists and gradually getting used to what was scaring me because i couldn't differentiate between small fears and big fears. What we did instead was use my anxiety about sessions and trusting him as the blueprint for figuring out the confusion. So we didn't delve into the past too much, we focused on how to stay present and engaged in the realtionship that was actually taking place between us. Creativity can be a great help in making therapy work for you, i played a bit with things which was great and helpful. It brought in that energy of curiosity, of wonder, like a breath of fresh air in the stale darkness i was trapped in.
I also often did that thing of telling my T stuff but refusing to talk about it and it worked brilliantly for me. I would march in and drop some bombshell and then say but that is not what i want to talk about today... I once gave him a list of the things that scared me most about him and to this day i have never discussed it with him, too scared! But the fact that he knew and i knew that he knew was very empowering and helped me gain confidence in my ability to set boundaries and look after myself.
I am rambling on terribly, sorry. All i really want to say is no, this is not how it has to be. Changing deeply entrenched survival mechanisms is no easy task, but if you are willing and able to do the work, and if you can just keep showing up when the going gets tough you can and will change not just your life but yourself.
Love
Pan
The bad news is that it took about 18 months for the anxiety to settle, but the good news is it didn't just settle it disappeared, as in like went away, gone, kaput, finished.
And BTW, the idea of sitting with my panic was incomprehensible to me, the urge to run and/or hide was so strong it was overriding. The funny thing is that from the outside my T couldn't see it or even hear it in my voice at all. It was one of the wierd but helpful things to learn, that the sky was falling in only in my head but that it was not 'real reality' as i like to differentiate it.
I had to tell him what was going on, like, "My feet want to run out the door," and on the phone, "My hands are sweating and my heart is thumping." and he was quite casual about it, "Oh well you don't sound like it, or but you are still here" which kind of took me aback because it was true.
It is both a blessing and a curse, and terribly confusing up until that point when you get it, that the panic and wanting to run feeling that is so overpowering is not a true reflection that you are in danger and that you don't have to believe it. For me it required great trust in my T because i had to find a way to trust him enough to convince myself that he was not going to hurt me even when 99,9% of me believed he was going to. That was the hardest part.
The sitting with it is crucial though, because it is the only way to sort out what is real and what isn't and the only place i guess i felt safe enough was with my T because i was too scared to feel that scared all by myself.
I couldn't tell what was real Frosty, i couldn't make sense of the simplest feelings and emotions and i had to reality check so many things until i started being able to tell for myself. It was hard to be that vulnerable when every part of my character had developed to be so in control that i was never vunerable, never unprepared and never, ever caught off guard.
You know like not eating before your session so you dont need the loo? Well that is the kind of control that is making your life hell and imprisoning you in your fear. My T taught me to be willing to risk it, to allow a glimmer of possiblity to enter into the disaster scenario i was writing in my head. I had things so under control i couldn't breath and it took a lot of practice to start thinking well, what if i just had to find a toilet, or what if i ate and was actually okay? What if i could survive something going wrong or the embarrassing or unexpected happening?
My T was also CBT and we had to drop the whole idea of lists and gradually getting used to what was scaring me because i couldn't differentiate between small fears and big fears. What we did instead was use my anxiety about sessions and trusting him as the blueprint for figuring out the confusion. So we didn't delve into the past too much, we focused on how to stay present and engaged in the realtionship that was actually taking place between us. Creativity can be a great help in making therapy work for you, i played a bit with things which was great and helpful. It brought in that energy of curiosity, of wonder, like a breath of fresh air in the stale darkness i was trapped in.
I also often did that thing of telling my T stuff but refusing to talk about it and it worked brilliantly for me. I would march in and drop some bombshell and then say but that is not what i want to talk about today... I once gave him a list of the things that scared me most about him and to this day i have never discussed it with him, too scared!
But the fact that he knew and i knew that he knew was very empowering and helped me gain confidence in my ability to set boundaries and look after myself.I am rambling on terribly, sorry. All i really want to say is no, this is not how it has to be. Changing deeply entrenched survival mechanisms is no easy task, but if you are willing and able to do the work, and if you can just keep showing up when the going gets tough you can and will change not just your life but yourself.
Love
Pan
Frosty,
This is going to be a quick suggestion because I'm off to T, but have you tried taking probiotics? I have had issues with IBS and it is definitely stress/anxiety related and taking probiotics really helped get it under control. Just a thought.
This is going to be a quick suggestion because I'm off to T, but have you tried taking probiotics? I have had issues with IBS and it is definitely stress/anxiety related and taking probiotics really helped get it under control. Just a thought.