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Hi Ladygrey,
I could see how this would be bothersome. It sounds like an interesting issue to unravel. Could it be that you only think you really want to be friends but find close friendships uncomfortable? And, so while it's okay for you do want these things, want to know about her, etc., at a distance but when it happens IRL, in the therapy room, it's too close for comfort?
What do you think???
Liese
I could see how this would be bothersome. It sounds like an interesting issue to unravel. Could it be that you only think you really want to be friends but find close friendships uncomfortable? And, so while it's okay for you do want these things, want to know about her, etc., at a distance but when it happens IRL, in the therapy room, it's too close for comfort?
What do you think???
Liese
Liese,
I think that is an interesting theory. You could be onto something there! I think perhaps as much as I want to be friends and to be closer to her, when it happens...I freak out because I have a fear of attachment. Now that I think about it, I tend to distance myself in my real life friendships as well when they start feeling too close. I can see how this pattern would repeat itself in therapy. Very interesting indeed. Thanks for sharing your theory!
I think that is an interesting theory. You could be onto something there! I think perhaps as much as I want to be friends and to be closer to her, when it happens...I freak out because I have a fear of attachment. Now that I think about it, I tend to distance myself in my real life friendships as well when they start feeling too close. I can see how this pattern would repeat itself in therapy. Very interesting indeed. Thanks for sharing your theory!
Hi Ladygrey,
I do the distancing thing too. It could be a good topic to bring up, although I don't know how you feel about sharing that you've been researching her online. Some people are able to tell their T's that but I've never been able to disclose that. I was researching my T online a little but I realized that what was bothering me was I wanted to know if he was wealthy. This might sound like an odd thing to want to know but in my mind I was equating wealthy with uncaring. Last summer I had work near where I think he lives and I forced myself to drive by his house. Still not even sure it's his house. But anyway, it was very middle class and it put me at ease to know this. That money isn't his first priority and he is a caring person. After that, I didn't feel the need to research him anymore. Maybe I need to go to a wealthy T and get past that and still find him caring!!! (What do I have against wealthy people???)
So, my question to you is, do you think that something might be bothering you about her? Something you need to know about her before you are more comfortable with her? From what I remember, you're not as comfortable with T2??? Something is nagging you.
HUGS,
Liese
I do the distancing thing too. It could be a good topic to bring up, although I don't know how you feel about sharing that you've been researching her online. Some people are able to tell their T's that but I've never been able to disclose that. I was researching my T online a little but I realized that what was bothering me was I wanted to know if he was wealthy. This might sound like an odd thing to want to know but in my mind I was equating wealthy with uncaring. Last summer I had work near where I think he lives and I forced myself to drive by his house. Still not even sure it's his house. But anyway, it was very middle class and it put me at ease to know this. That money isn't his first priority and he is a caring person. After that, I didn't feel the need to research him anymore. Maybe I need to go to a wealthy T and get past that and still find him caring!!! (What do I have against wealthy people???)
So, my question to you is, do you think that something might be bothering you about her? Something you need to know about her before you are more comfortable with her? From what I remember, you're not as comfortable with T2??? Something is nagging you.
HUGS,
Liese
Hi LG
I know i don't like self-disclosure because the more information i have the more i start trying to become the person i think my T wants me to be. I purposely ask very little about my T and the first time he self-disclosed i was horrified, in the course of explaining something he said he was a cat person and i was like whoa, way too much info. That night i dreamt he turned into Chucky from that horror movie.
It turned out to be quite therapeutic because through telling him about it i got to see how desperately i needed to control everything to keep my anxiety under control and feel safe.
So for me, it was needing to feel in control that made me dislike it.
Pan
I know i don't like self-disclosure because the more information i have the more i start trying to become the person i think my T wants me to be. I purposely ask very little about my T and the first time he self-disclosed i was horrified, in the course of explaining something he said he was a cat person and i was like whoa, way too much info. That night i dreamt he turned into Chucky from that horror movie.
It turned out to be quite therapeutic because through telling him about it i got to see how desperately i needed to control everything to keep my anxiety under control and feel safe.
So for me, it was needing to feel in control that made me dislike it.
Pan
quote:How is it that I want to know so much about her, that I desperately wish we could be friends, but when my sessions feel more like two friends talking rather than therapy, I feel uncomfortable?
LG... could it be that maybe when it starts to feel like two friends the focus shifts from the discussion being all about your needs and about you onto her? This is why we should not be friends with our Ts and the boundary exists... because this is the time when it's all about us and what we need to talk about or work on.
I do not mind self-disclosure that 1- helps me to trust my T a little more and 2- that directly relates back to what I'm struggling with... such as a T sharing their experience of surgery or in handling a parental crisis etc.
Liese I think that maybe you want to know if your T is wealthy because you need to know if he is doing what he does soley for the money involved, instead of doing it because he cares about people and wants to help them. I think you may feel ambivalent about having to pay for talking to him and for having the relationship with him.
TN
Just wanted to follow up on something you mentioned, Pan. About controlling the information so you feel safe. I've recogized that I do that also. But I've never talked to T about it. Can you tell us a little more about that? How has understanding that helped you IRL? Are you able to let in more information now? Does it have to do with ego strength? And how are ego strength and safety related????? JW
Liese
Liese
I don't mind it and most of the time it really helps. T has disclosed a few things that really helped me to realize that she understands what it is like to try to come back from something really bad. I found it really helpful.
Other self-disclosure that she does is just minor stuff which usually comes up as we are chit-chatting in an attempt to reground me. We talk about her cats, sometimes a few things about her family, what she has planned etc. Nothing major, but enough that I can tell she's an actual human and not a robot.
Other self-disclosure that she does is just minor stuff which usually comes up as we are chit-chatting in an attempt to reground me. We talk about her cats, sometimes a few things about her family, what she has planned etc. Nothing major, but enough that I can tell she's an actual human and not a robot.
Hi Liese
Just had to google IRL to know what it means but i got it, in real life.
For me it was 2 things, controlling things to feel safe and underneath that and what was really causing the trouble was all or nothing thinking. It was the confusion about what was appropriate and what wasn't that caused so much anxiety for me because i couldn't tell that him telling me he liked cats was not as dangerous as 'Chucky'. So by speaking about my dream to my T we were able to uncover the black and white thinking and i could get some perspective on, as it turned out, on everything really.
It has helped me immeasurably both in real life and in therapy, i know all sorts of things about my T now and though i do sometimes feel uncomfortable i have a mecahnism for reality checking inside me that can put things into a more realistic perspective. I didn't have that before.
I think it does have to do with ego strength. What i am still in the process of learning is that i have resources inside myself that can help get me out of pickles, (Good heavens, Frosty, i think this might be where the gerkins came from!).
Before i was approaching it the other way around, trying to avoid any sort of discomfort to make sure i never felt out of my depth. But the tighter (and more effective, i might add) my control and by that i mean planning, efficiency and a general being preparedness, but the better i got at that the more frightened i was. And the harder i worked at being safe the worse i felt.
So the ego strength came from firstly undoing some of the black and white horror story scenarios i was sure would come true if the tiniest thing happened. And then secondly i had to practice really hard to risk being a bit uncertain about the outcome but doing it anyway.
I was very fortunate that my T was willing to answer some of my more creative requests. I would be terrified asking him for anything if i thought there was a chance of him saying no and he had to teach me how to feel strong enough to bear it even if he said no. He did teach me that because after i ended therapy with him he did let me down once or twice when i needed him and i was upset and told him and and we were able to sort it out and i can live with it. Huge progress for me and it didn't come naturally, i had to apply my new skills so it was a great learning opportunity.
In real life i am just not so scared all the time anymore, everything feels much more authentic, when i am sad i cry, when i want something i can ask. I still have certain areas that are triggers for me but i am learning that when i am drowning in anxiety i need to check my black and white thinking. The moment i get some flexibility back in my thoughts, i am willing to open up to the situation and all of a sudden so many possibilities appear.
Ego strength surprised me because it is so brave and open, it has no need for control. I think my T has tremendous and healthy ego strength and this amazing way of keeping and re-finding his internal balance on the rare occasions that he wobbled a bit it. For me those moments were the best because i would ask him how he did that, how he figured things out inside himself and he was able to somehow explain it. It usually had to do with being okay that it wasn't clear, that it was murky and vague and confusing but being okay with that and accepting that that IS life.
So that was my experience and it is a year since i ended therapy and i am getting better and better at life and living, both the good and the bad times.
Hope this answers your question?
Pan
quote:Can you tell us a little more about that? How has understanding that helped you IRL? Are you able to let in more information now? Does it have to do with ego strength? And how are ego strength and safety related?????
Just had to google IRL to know what it means but i got it, in real life.
For me it was 2 things, controlling things to feel safe and underneath that and what was really causing the trouble was all or nothing thinking. It was the confusion about what was appropriate and what wasn't that caused so much anxiety for me because i couldn't tell that him telling me he liked cats was not as dangerous as 'Chucky'. So by speaking about my dream to my T we were able to uncover the black and white thinking and i could get some perspective on, as it turned out, on everything really.
It has helped me immeasurably both in real life and in therapy, i know all sorts of things about my T now and though i do sometimes feel uncomfortable i have a mecahnism for reality checking inside me that can put things into a more realistic perspective. I didn't have that before.
I think it does have to do with ego strength. What i am still in the process of learning is that i have resources inside myself that can help get me out of pickles, (Good heavens, Frosty, i think this might be where the gerkins came from!).
Before i was approaching it the other way around, trying to avoid any sort of discomfort to make sure i never felt out of my depth. But the tighter (and more effective, i might add
) my control and by that i mean planning, efficiency and a general being preparedness, but the better i got at that the more frightened i was. And the harder i worked at being safe the worse i felt.So the ego strength came from firstly undoing some of the black and white horror story scenarios i was sure would come true if the tiniest thing happened. And then secondly i had to practice really hard to risk being a bit uncertain about the outcome but doing it anyway.
I was very fortunate that my T was willing to answer some of my more creative requests. I would be terrified asking him for anything if i thought there was a chance of him saying no and he had to teach me how to feel strong enough to bear it even if he said no. He did teach me that because after i ended therapy with him he did let me down once or twice when i needed him and i was upset and told him and and we were able to sort it out and i can live with it. Huge progress for me and it didn't come naturally, i had to apply my new skills so it was a great learning opportunity.
In real life i am just not so scared all the time anymore, everything feels much more authentic, when i am sad i cry, when i want something i can ask. I still have certain areas that are triggers for me but i am learning that when i am drowning in anxiety i need to check my black and white thinking. The moment i get some flexibility back in my thoughts, i am willing to open up to the situation and all of a sudden so many possibilities appear.
Ego strength surprised me because it is so brave and open, it has no need for control. I think my T has tremendous and healthy ego strength and this amazing way of keeping and re-finding his internal balance on the rare occasions that he wobbled a bit it. For me those moments were the best because i would ask him how he did that, how he figured things out inside himself and he was able to somehow explain it. It usually had to do with being okay that it wasn't clear, that it was murky and vague and confusing but being okay with that and accepting that that IS life.
So that was my experience and it is a year since i ended therapy and i am getting better and better at life and living, both the good and the bad times.
Hope this answers your question?
Pan
One T I had told me right before we ended that she'd had 20 years of therapy herself. I found that immeasurably helpful and wished she'd told me earlier, it really increased my trust in her.
But when Art-T went anywhere near self-disclosure I had to stop myself shoving a sock in her mouth. Once early on I said certain things were hard to talk about because I didn't know anything about her and she turned to me with arms open and said 'Well, what do you want to know?' I said 'No, no, no, nothing! Because what if it's stuff that raises uncomfortable differences?'
She said that was life, really, but basically I think I already had the vibe that there was stuff I didn't want to know, that was going to put me off her. And I sort of had this vibe (probably made up) that she *wanted* me to show an interest in her, which made me feel yuck.
J
But when Art-T went anywhere near self-disclosure I had to stop myself shoving a sock in her mouth. Once early on I said certain things were hard to talk about because I didn't know anything about her and she turned to me with arms open and said 'Well, what do you want to know?' I said 'No, no, no, nothing! Because what if it's stuff that raises uncomfortable differences?'
She said that was life, really, but basically I think I already had the vibe that there was stuff I didn't want to know, that was going to put me off her. And I sort of had this vibe (probably made up) that she *wanted* me to show an interest in her, which made me feel yuck.
J
I've never asked my T any personal questions, but she self-discloses a fair amount. Mostly it's about her own therapy that she had quite a few years ago. She's told me about her own numbness and alluded to having to go through some hard stuff, though she's never been very specific. I feel guilty when she says things like that, because I mostly look down in session, but I feel like I'm being rude if I do when she tells me those things and I worry that I need to say something about what she went through. But I get too scared to talk, so I feel guilty for that, too.
Mostly it makes me feel uncomfortable and guilty, but sometimes it helps. I don't mind it when she tells me where she's going if she has to miss a session or small things about her life (now). I do think it's interesting though that she started therapy when she was 21, and I started therapy when I was 20 (but I'm 21 now). She's in her mid 60's now, which is just a few years older than my mom. I just find that interesting and a little comforting.
Mostly it makes me feel uncomfortable and guilty, but sometimes it helps. I don't mind it when she tells me where she's going if she has to miss a session or small things about her life (now). I do think it's interesting though that she started therapy when she was 21, and I started therapy when I was 20 (but I'm 21 now). She's in her mid 60's now, which is just a few years older than my mom. I just find that interesting and a little comforting.
Old T told me that his wife's greatest fantasy was to be raped.
a little self disclosure is bonding. but, too much, and i feel like...who's therapy is this anyway...
that old sack, t3 talked all the time about herself. i can't begin to tell you how BAD she was. ohhhh!!!
anyway. things that show their humanity and own struggles, a bit...like pa talked about the death of a friend just a bit today. it helped me to hear him share something with me that meant alot to him.
so, a bit is good. NONE is too weird...too stiff (t1) ... jill
and halo...that is SICK! i am glad this is OLD t!!
that old sack, t3 talked all the time about herself. i can't begin to tell you how BAD she was. ohhhh!!!
anyway. things that show their humanity and own struggles, a bit...like pa talked about the death of a friend just a bit today. it helped me to hear him share something with me that meant alot to him.
so, a bit is good. NONE is too weird...too stiff (t1) ... jill
and halo...that is SICK! i am glad this is OLD t!!