LG, I'm sure it's just an awful coincidence.

I would bring it up in the conversation. Say something like, "Even though I know it's a coincidence, it really hurts that I've been cut off from 30 minutes with my Ts this week. I feel [unimportant, burdensome, rejected, hurt, angry, fill in the blank]." I usually tell T that I don't expect an apology, but just wanted him to know where I'm at. It can help a lot to get that sort of thing off your chest.

LG, how often has this happened in the past? If the answer is almost never, then I would be skeptical about it being just chance. That doesn't mean its intentional. She could be experiencing unconscious countertransference and not realizing it. However, if this kind of thing occasionally happens with T1 anyway, then yeah its a better bet its coincidence. Either way, I would bring it up with her to make her aware of how its affecting you.

LG,

Sometimes when I'm feeling needy, I connect every slight to form a string of related events. Or maybe it's just that you notice every slight and they seem to form a strong of related events. How did it go with T2 and the texting? Sorry if you mentioned that on another thread.

(((((LG)))))

Sorry it was so bad. Is T1 phone T? Do you want to talk about it? Can you get back in touch with her before she leaves?

((((HUGS)))

Liese

Oh LG, It sounds bad. I'm so sorry. Can you contact T2? Would that be an option? I think that's what you might have to do, LG. Lean on T2 a little more???

So T1 cut you short by 10 minutes twice this week and then you have this awful session right before her vacation? Didn't you mention that T2 wants you to stop doing phone therapy with T1? And that the two of them talk? Sorry, you know me and my evil ploys.

Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't know that was the reason for your rupture.

(((((((((LG)))))))))) I'm so sorry, especially to have a rupture like that before a vacation. I know you are hurting!!! A conversation like that should have been handled in a very gentle, compassionate way. I sometimes wonder if I have BPD, but my T has never really discussed diagnoses with me (other than suggesting some dissociative and codependent tendencies). I'm sorry the session went so poorly.

OH, (((((LG)))))

They are just stupid labels. They don't mean anything. And they don't take away from your value as a person. You are a wonderful person. You are not a label.

I can totally understand why you would feel betrayed. I would feel the same way. I wouldn't like them talking about me when I am not there.

Is it possible that T2 felt that T1's therapy with you was actually hurting you instead of helping you? I know you have this longstanding relationship with T1 and that she is more like a parent figure than a therapist. And you have often questioned her effectiveness as a therapist. Maybe they do just really want the best for you and it is a caring act on their part, as hard as it is now to see it that way???

The information contained in this last post is very connected with how you feel and your needs and I would encourage you (if you are bold enough) to communicate it to T1 before she heads off for vacation. But if that is too hard, I can totally relate!!!

I know, LG, I would want to hear the same thing, especially in light of your longstanding relationship with her. Maybe T2 thinks T1 is enabling you and the only way for her to help is to withdraw a little. It sounds like you have been picking up on that all week. She probably really loves you and cares about you but all that love and care may be interfering in an adverse way with your treatment. Maybe T2 had to get her on board. I know she really cares about you.

But LG, don't do what I do and just spin like a top out of control. Can you try to talk to T1 and/or T2 about why T1 is withdrawing from you and if in fact it's part of the treatment plan? It seems like a conversation like that would be really helpful to you right now. I would be frustrated with the two of them communicating without me. You are the consumer here, the paying customer.

(((( LG )))) I so hate to see you suffering over this. I am wondering if T1 isn't feeling intimidated or told what to do by T2? It would bother me to not be a party to what discussions are happening between the two of them. It feels like you are at the raw end of the deal. Of course T1 has made it so confusing going back on her opinion just like that. But the label of the diagnosis, I just don't think it changes how T1 sees you. It would be better to hear that from her lips, wouldn't it? If only you could ask her, in a text or something. Tell her what you need to hear...

I'm sorry. I really struggle with believing in what T says. And I struggle even more when I have to ask for his reassurances, like then they aren't sincere, but I've just manipulated him into giving me what I need. That's a tough spot to be in. ((((((((LG)))))))) I would hate to feel like my Ts were talking behind my back in that sort of a way. Sure, they need to stay connected, but I almost think it's something where you should be involved in those conversations.

LG,

Please don't feel foolish and embarrassed for thinking she cares about you. I am sure she cares about you. It could just be that she and T2 decided that she needed to withdraw some support and it's like a parent doing something for their kid that they know is in their best interest but they know the kid is not going to like it. And, so maybe she's avoiding the situation and not dealing with it in the best manner possible. She may FEEL like she's abandoning you and can't handle that knowing what you've been through. You two have a long standing relationship and it must be hard for her.

I'm not making excuses for the poor way she handled it. But don't beat yourself up about it all. Don't feel ashamed. Or try not to anyway.

((((HUGS))))

Liese

(((LG))))) Isn't there something called triangulation? Maybe that's what is going on here???

((((HUGS)))))

Liese

LG, I could be wrong but triangulation can occur anytime there are three people involved in a relationship. I don't know if that in particular is related to BPD. Think of three girls in middle school and what can happen there. I do know splitting is related to BPD but I thought that had something to do with not being able to incorporate all the characteristcs of someones personality into one and so you kind of have to see them as being "all bad" on a particular day or "all good" on another day. It's kind of like you can't accept that maybe they have some good things in them and some bad traits in them. I mean I guess I could see how anyone might use splitting in triangulation. Hmmm.

My T told me I have traits of BPD. I had a conflict with my daughter's soccer coaches wife and told T about it. And then I said, "what are we, two borderlines going at it with each other?" He tried to hide a smile and then said, I don't know what her issues are. It bothered me for a while but I think now I just have to accept it. T already knows everythign about me. If I leave therapy now, it won't matter. I won't be hiding anything from him. Only myself. You are doing the important thing. You are getting help.

But anyway, back to you. Maybe T1 shouldn't have told you the way she did. It WAS an awful way to leave things with you. My guess, and I know it won't make it any better, is that T1 was struggling with her feelings of abandoning you. I think you should talk to one of the two of them about how you are feeling. Maybe T2??? When is your next appointment with T2?

quote:

It T1 is struggling with her feelings, why didn't she text me or follow up? I'm hurt that she didn't. Frowner

LG, I may be wrong, ok? I usually am. But with triangulation concerns being mentioned, what I am seeing is a possibility that T2 is trying to convince T1 that she needs to bow out of your therapy. Now, if you were T1 and you became convinced (or pressured) that bowing out was in her client's best interest, then you might start by distancing yourself from that client, either because you were protecting your own feelings over losing the client, or because you thought it would be easier on the client to leave if you first created distance. You have talked about your deeper attachment to T1 and how it would be difficult to leave her. She probably knows this as well. Wouldnt you be more likely to leave her if you were angry with her? T1 may be fooling you to what she is feeling internally. And yet it seems like an ominous warning of things to come. And tell me to go jump in a lake if you need to, it's ok. I'm probably wrong.

LG, I hope you sleep tonight. Sorry it is taking all that to get you to that resting place.

Something just popped into my head. What if your T1 is just having an off day? Have you ever had days where she just isn't that person you have come to expect her to be? With the upcoming vacation and T2 being (possibly) in her face about the conflict of two Ts giving a client different diagnoses, maybe she just blew it? I don't know why she wouldn't try to repair, but maybe she is leaving that up to you to ask for, rather than get in your face more about it and risk making you even more angry while you are still processing this stuff and running you off for good?

LG ~ I'm just going to be frank and perhaps too blunt, but I rather be too blunt than not say anything. Please forgive me if I offend or I am just off base. I'm acting out of deep concern for you. I know you are hurting, and it doesn't sound like you intended to harm yourself but to just sleep (and I can understand why and how this is all so hurtful and hard) - but I'm concerned you may have accidentally overdosed. It's really dangerous to mix alchol and valium alone. The respiratory despression that it could trigger while you sleep and the meds peak, and that you would not wake up to, could take your life very easily. Alcohol with sleeping meds does the same thing. Put it all together, and I'm scared about a very real possibility you could stop breathing and die. It could easily happen even if you have taken the exact same amount before and been ok. (Heath Ledger is believed to have done the same. Too many people have.)

oh LG, please know I care deeply about you. I want you to wake up and be ok! It sounds like your Ts are not a good resource right now... and I'm concerned. I'm just gonna ask - can you call a doctor? Or... what about posion control and ask them about any problems that could happen with the things you took together with alcohol? They can give you a good clear answer that I can't. Even if you just ask them if "someone" took that same amount of stuff, are they going to be medically ok... They would be able to tell you... and then you can go from there about how to take care of you... please oh please... can you call someone? Even one of your Ts? or a crisis line? Or go get checked out at an urgent care or ER? I know that may seem like a lot to say to do, but it's really risky, I know you didn't likely mean it to do something dangerous - others have done the same thing, and too many don't survive, unintentionally - please, I feel bad for saying this, yet I'm just being honest about the reality of what you are risking here. Please check in with someone medically, ok? I know you want sleep, just please check and make sure it's safe to sleep with what you took...

many hugs,
~ jane

Thanks for checking...to be truthful, I was worried and praying for you! Sorry for being too chicken to say anything so direct.

Maybe just text that you were really hurt by the way things went today and you wanted to let T1 know before she leaves on her vacation so you are not holding that pain inside you and letting it cause you pain that could lead to you not taking good care of yourself. Then, T1 can decide what she wants to do with that? Maybe it won't be worked out before she leaves, but just saying, "OUCH! You hurt me!!!" might help you not get stuck there while she is gone.

oh good LG - and thank you. It's ok to have worried me! I rather you share than not. I know you just want to sleep - I can understand why. I was there in a simillar spot - which is why I probably have the strong reaction I do. Thanks for understanding I just want you to be ok. I don't mean to worry you or anything, and I am also glad you will check on what you took. You deserve some good rest and sleep to help get through the grief. I hope everything is ok, and I hope you do sleep well and soundly tonight.

((((LG)))))

PLEASE TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF AND KEEP POSTING!

(((LG))))) So sorry there wasn't a message there from her. I don't blame you for wanting to sleep. I'd probably want do the same thing.

(((LG))) Glad you were able to get some sleep. I'm so sorry she didn't get back to you. hang in there, jane

Glad you were able to rest. I'm sorry T1 didn't text. I would bet she is waiting for your initiative. If it helps, I don't think my T would ever come after me...he waits for me to come to him. Having angered you so much, it may be especially hard for T1 to know whether her actions will make things better or worse. Though, I can understand why it would hurt that she doesn't know after so long together. I would still suggest just sending a quick text on how you feel to get it off your chest. The risk is, if she's already away and not answering texts, then you may be waiting for contact with even more anticipation...hrm, such a bind to be in.

LG,

So proud of you for texting her. But there is one thing I'd like you to change, in the spirit of "asking for what we need" week!!! Tell her you want a response from her. Because you do. And it's okay to want a response from someone who is important to you. I would want a response.

LG - good for you!!! I do the "don't expect a reply" thing with T and he usually interprets it as I don't want one. What I actually mean when I say I don't expect him to reply is:

"I really want a reply to let me know all of this is OK...but if I say I want a reply, I will worry that you are only doing it, because you think you have to and not because you actually want to and I will be burdening you. Also, if I admit to wanting a response and you don't reply or take a long time to get back to me, I will be in agony. So, saying I don't expect a response makes me feel like if you do respond, it was something you wanted to do and it was not a burden. And if you don't, you were just trying to honor what you think I want. That way, I am not projecting how much I burden you or you hate me by your response or lack of response." I actually wrote this in a journal entry once, so T knows all that. I'm thinking since you've known your T1 for years and text with her regularly, she should probably have a pretty good sense of what you mean by "don't expect a response." Though, my T avoids responding almost every time I say this...

Yes, you worded it well and I think you were (perhaps unnecessarily) indirect. I don't think she will be offended at all.

(((((LG)))))

I am glad you got some good sleep (I totally understand the importance of sleep.) Please be careful with mixing the drugs and alcohol.... I did a lot of research many years ago, as that is how I was going to end, and found some scary stuff. Like how it isn't always successful, and you can end up as a vegetable instead.

Otherwise, good for you on the text to your T! You're right, you have to put it out there, so why not let it all hang out. I hope that it brought you some relief, and that a resolution comes soon. Keep posting, we'll keep reading, and keep listening and keep being here for you.

(((((LG)))))

I am *SURE* T1 cares for you. I know what you are feeling like right now (and how you helped me through these feelings just a few days ago). It will pass! (((((LG))))))

So glad for you. I hope this time away from T1 can pass more easily now and your session with T2 has a little less sting in it!

YAY!!!!

LG,

So happy for you that she wrote back!!!! The waiting is agony, I know!!

How are you doing, LG?

(((LG))))

So glad you are in a better place today. Yay!!!

Good luck with the evil leprechaun tomorrow!!

LOL!!! such a sweet and funny way to "make up" with your T!!!

So glad you have such a fun connection with T1 and that your courage to text her paid off. I know this vacation will be so much easier on you now. Praying things go well with T2!!!