quote:

I don't think I have erotic thoughts about him. But I felt powerless to say that, because I *have* had the odd thought that was more curious experiment than anything else. Or I didn't feel connected to that, really, it was just a weird thing. I wish I could just say that to him, but I get so stopped up. Now he thinks I'm pursuing erotic thoughts about him. sheesh.

Beebs... I am soo very sorry you had such an unsatisfying and hurtful session. First... what I quoted above... we ALL do that if we are honest. We TEST the role our T has in our life and the feelings we have for them. We "try it out" and then most if not all of us end up rejecting the erotic component or it's not the most important aspect. I have one word for you Beebs... NURTURING. This is what most of us want from our Ts. We want the nurturning that we didn't get as children and that is part of the whole developmental process that in our cases got stunted and went awry due to abuse and/or neglect. Your T is so fixated on the fact that you may be erotically attracted to him that he is missing a HUGE THERAPEUTIC issue. Nurturing. I would like to hit him on the head if it would help get this info inside his brain.

I also think his ending with you was harsh and uncalled for. You are sobbing (something you have struggled to do in therapy) and he is worried that time is up?? Huh?? Of course you are feeling spacey and disconnected... and really totally abandoned. I am so sorry this happened to you. You are trying so hard to make this work Beebs, but you need to consider that you are doing nothing wrong at all but it's him and his deficiencies. So much of this is familiar to my oldT... the defensiveness, the inability to go where I needed to go and the discomfort with my attachment to him. I had to work so damn hard for any progress I made. Now?... with my newT, it is really so much easier and the attachment is there. He accepts and rejoices in it. For him it is the goal he works towards with patients who have attachment injury. I don't have to work as hard these days although I am working hard on other issues... mostly the trauma left by oldT.

And why is he making such a big deal over whether or not he likes you? Of course you want to be liked. We all do and especially by those we see as parental figures in our lives. Most of all I think is that we need to feel accepted by our T. That our needs and feelings and our selves are accepted and cared about. We need that person to applaud us and to believe in us. To be there when we get scared. We never had that before and that is where our development went off track. For some reason your T is resistant to this idea. And Beebs, I think this is what you really need to heal yourself. I want to like your T and was happy to hear that you had a good, session last itme when you discussed the previous disasterous one. I thought there was hope and a new beginning was possible. But you cannot make someone be the kind of T you need if they are incapable of doing that.

Do you remember that guy you contacted and found who was knowledgeable about attachment? Please please call him and go to see him. He was not that expensive and he is there... real and in person. So when you are crying he will soothe you and not log off from you. He will give you the time you need to pull yourself together and have compassion for your pain. I would hope if he "got" attachment he would not leave you so spacey and unsure and feeling so disconnected and awful. And how will you know if you can or cannot attach to any other T if you do not go out and try?

I wish I could do something to help you with all of this.... I would come with you to find a new T if I could. I think you did well by writing all of this out and by sharing with us your pain. We are here for you. Keep posting.

Hugs
TN

Hey BB... are you okay? Just checking. I know today was really rough.

Sending kind thoughts and hugs
TN

Beebs,

Regarding the definition of "like" and how your desire to be liked by T might influence your therapy, I think what he is saying that if your focus/concern is pleasing him so that he approves of you, then you won't be working on the things that need to be worked on. You might leave out important things out of a desire to hide things about yourself that may seem unattractive or unhealthy. Getting our therapists to like us and approve of us isn't what our therapy is supposed to be about because that's when it becomes about them and not about us anymore. Still, I know how it is to need to know that you are accepted by your therapist.

Do you think that your T is doing something to contribute to your need for approval from him? Is there something he can do to help you relax and be more honest with him, to worry less about being judged by him?

(((((BEEBS)))))

Sorry it is so hard.


Liese

BB - My session kind of rocked me too today, so I can't put two thoughts together that might be helpful, but I wanted to let you know I am here. (((((((((((BB)))))))))))) I'm sorry. I do think your T cares and is trying to figure out how to help you, but it almost sounds as if there is some sort of communication breakdown...

Oh blackbird...
I hate to see you in so much agony. You deserve to be "liked" unconditionally by your T. And really, how could he not like you and like someone else said....of course you want your T to like you. We all do.

A couple of days ago, you "gently" asked me if I could try to see another T while I was still seeing my T to help the transition when my T moves. Now, I want to very gently ask you if you could set up an appointment with a consult T. The thought of you sitting in front of your computer feeling so rejected and abandoned breaks my heart, (((BB))). You deserve to feel loved and supported. And I am so sorry this hurts so much. I wish I could somehow ease your pain. Will be thinking of you....
seablue

(((((Beebs)))))
I so wish I could help!! A few of our community have mentioned seeking a consultT - perhaps the one you've already met!!! This truly seems a good idea to me - you need another perspective on what's happening otherwise this current T relationship runs the risk of creating more problems not lessening them!! I know the very idea of changing Ts must be sick making when you're so attached but that can be worked through with a new T, much like what seablue is facing!!

Thinking of you dear Beebs xx and you too seablue xx

((((Beebs))))

Sorry you are struggling right now Know you are so not alone!

(I know that doesn't help, but that's the best I can offer as I am struggling right there with you right now )

Dear Beebs,

It's awful to have had all that powerful emotion surfacing and to feel that in fact your t was not there beside you in it but was fundamentally not there, not getting it.

I too don't believe that you can't be helped through therapy - I strongly believe that you can, but it will take the right situation. But I also believe that your sense of pain and hopelessness at the moment is extreme. I don't like seeing you in this situation at all, dearest Bebe. It feels like a kind of nightmare.

I think your feeling of a 'secret fight' is really perceptive and accurate. Something is locking up in the therapy, something is jamming the works repeatedly. I don't know what it is or why, but I do know that it is not because you 'can't be helped'. There is not a single person on this board for whom I would believe that. And you are certainly not the exception. In fact that voice - the voice telling you you can't be helped - is your biggest enemy right now, I believe. It's the voice of hopelessness and despair. That's the one you need to turn away from whenever you can. Whenever you hear it and recognise it and remember - just tag it: "Oh - THAT voice. You again. Well, I can hear you but I don't have to believe you." Something like that.

I too would like to see you getting a consult. Not necessarily switching Ts, but just going and meeting someone, seeing how it feels to be in the room with someone, to air a little of this with someone in person.

As for whether therapy would just be the same with someone else, well, I'm not even sure that's possible. Are any of your individual friendships the same as your other friendships? They are each different in fundamental ways, right? Because a relationship is always between two unique people, and they each define it. I don't even know how many Ts I've seen in my life. Maybe 20 or 30 or so, including one-offs for various reasons. For those I saw on-goingly the therapeutic relationship was fundamentally different with each and every one of them. I was different. That's part of the reality - and the beauty - of relationships.

I am not saying you should 'just go and get another T'. No. The right resolution to the big picture is not clear to me. I don't know what you should in the end do. I also believe that the pain and agony of this caught feeling - stuck, swirling, immobilized - is very real, and the reasons for it are hugely important. That pain and its origins NEED to be heard, and I promise you - I promise that pain - that it WILL be heard. But I believe the depth and severity of this agony warrants a different action in the short term, and getting a consult is very likely to allow you to step out of the swirling for a time for some much, much needed relief and perspective.

I know you think you can't do it, Beebs, but I have to say I believe otherwise. I have seen you do some amazing things. For example, when you believed that you really, really *couldn't* ask for regular sessions, and you did. Or that you absolutely *couldn't* show your T any anger, and you did. You have come a long way, Beebs, already. And you have already done a considerable amount of the work involved by identifying some consult Ts and figuring out who might be suitable. This is one more small step, to call and ask for an appointment.

For all your beautiful gentleness and responsiveness, Beebs, you are also deep down one hell of a survivor. You are tenacious and sharply intelligent and passionate in feeling. You have a core of stubborn, agile YOUness, a strength, an elusiveness, and you survive. If I can flatter myself for a moment, these are some of the reasons I relate to you so strongly.

But Beebs, you need to get healthier. You need it for yourself and for your kids. Whatever you need to take that step out of the swirling, I will support you. If you want to get a consult now, I will support that. If you want to work on sessions with Dr P for a month and then check-in to decide on a consult, I will support that. If you want to send your 'break' email to Dr Peter, and then follow up with someone else now or in a few weeks, I will support that.

Whatever I can do, I'd be happy to.

*Edit - just saw your success story - so glad to hear of you having this time of relief. May it continue.*

Very much love,
Jones

Oh my dear ((Beebs))
Seeing a consultT is not going behind anyone's back - you are having difficulties in this relationship - YOU - it may be the tyranny of distance - who knows? To seek out another's view of what is happening is perfectly reasonable and healthy! I have a T who i see in the flesh and am having problems - I just cannot imagine how you have survived with this 'almost cyber' relationship for so long!

There comes a time in any problematic relationships where we have to 'think' what is working for ME!!

Love you Beebs!

And I can't help feeling like if I can't work through this relationship, I won't be able to work through any relationships.. it's right here, and right now..and if I can figure out how to make this one work, than I will have a skill.In some weird sense I just *can't* give up. It's like I feel like my marriage will fail if I give up on my T relationship- it really feels that way.

quote:

And he has even said to me more than once, that you "wouldn't be able to find care like mine anywhere else."

(((Beebs))) Um!! I don't believe this is an appropriate comment to make - you are right, it puts you in a powerless situation - I'm sorry a comment like that for me would be so scary!!!

wdik?? nothing really! if it was me in this situation I would probably accept it because I'm conditioned that way BUT for anyone else, especially people who matter and someone as young as you who has a whole life and lots of happy living ahead to do, I just want to say, I'm not feeling good or happy about this for YOU ((((Beebs))).

Oops - went back and reread your post - if this therapeutic relationship does'nt work out it does not necessarily carry over to your marital relationship!!

xo M

Beebs I’ve been reading all your posts about how things are going with T and though I’ve really wanted to respond, I find I can’t come up with anything relevant or useful. This has got me thinking and I’m wondering if I may make a suggestion that might be a useful exercise for you?

Let’s assume hypothetically that you decide to go see a consult T. Would it be useful to you do you think, to set down in writing, either for yourself, or even here on forum, what you would say to a consult T? When I read your posts I find that I can’t put my finger on the issue (issues) that is at the core of what’s troubling you, and I’m wondering whether you yourself don’t have a very clear idea of what those issues might be? If you had to write down what you’d need to tell a consult T about the situation, it might help you get a bit more clarity about what’s going on with your current T.

Can I also put in my own (totally off the cuff) thoughts about what your issue *might * be? Through it all I get the sense that it’s your profound attachment to T that is at the bottom of all these miscommunications and disconnects and terrifying feelings that you are experiencing. That so long as the way you feel about T and what you are wanting from him on that attachment/emotional level isn’t addressed, the pain and confusion are likely to continue unresolved. Like, lots and lots of other issues and problems keep surfacing in terms of how T is relating to you and what he is/isn’t giving you, and I am suspecting that they mostly stem from the bottom line issue of what you are needing from T in terms of your attachment. Not quite a smokescreen, but having the effect of making your mind skitter all over the place in utter confusion and bewilderment, trying to sort out and understand and resolve these surfacing problems, which is not addressing the actual cause of your situation – your feelings about T. I am guessing that if you and he were able to focus on your attachment issues and the feelings and beliefs that stem from that, your therapy would really take off. Does that make sense?

It’s why I suggest that you write out the sort of things you’d need to explain to a consult T (if you were going to see one, you don’t even have to go see a consult T to do this ) because then you would be forced to pull it all together to make someone else understand – and in so doing you might very well discover precisely what the problem is and what you are needing to address.

I hope that doesn’t sound too dictatorial or unsympathetic. I hate to see you suffering as you are, and so many times have wanted to step in and give you some magical answer - *sigh* doesn’t exist does it? I also hate to see you beating yourself up like this, when it’s pretty obvious your T isn’t recognizing something fundamental that’s going on (either you are very very very good at not giving anything away, or he is really quite obtuse, or maybe a bit of both? )

Hope you are doing ok all the same, sending you lots of good wishes (((( Beebs ))))

LL

quote:

Originally posted by blackbird:
And I can't help feeling like if I can't work through this relationship, I won't be able to work through any relationships.. it's right here, and right now..and if I can figure out how to make this one work, than I will have a skill.In some weird sense I just *can't* give up. It's like I feel like my marriage will fail if I give up on my T relationship- it really feels that way.

Beebs,

I'm late to this thread (very sorry) but I wanted to comment on the quote above. I know it feels like if this relationship doesn't work that you can't do other relationships or your marriage, but I'd like you to consider something. If this relationship were anything other than a T, would you be expected to keep it all together via video chat? Probably not. Most relationships would involve in person contact where you can really connect and feel the other person and have the opportunity to use those verbal and non-verbal cues. So, I don't think it is fair to yourself to base your ability to do relationships on a situation that doesn't model how things would be in an in person relationship. I'm not meaning to devalue the relationship that you do have with your T because I know it is very important. I just hate to see you throw everything out based on this assumption regarding the relationship with your T.

Anyway, I hope that you are doing okay. I'm sorry that it continues to be so difficult. (((hugs)))

(((((((((((BB))))))))))) Thinking of and praying for you. This attachment stuff can be so maddening. I'm right there with you.

BB, almost everyone has some need for approval. It's okay to have that - it's really, really normal. Actually if you don't have any need for approval at all maybe that would leave you in the sociopathic realm - I don't know.

There is a problem with not being able to balance your sense of what others want against your sense of what you want. But that's not a badness. Not at all. It's just a state of being that hurts.

Just try to let go of judging who you are right now, and accept. It hurts, but we can still let go of the judging.

Love,
Jones

BB

Sorry it's so hard for you, I can sense your turmoil through your words. But one thing especialy struck me

quote:

Had a short session with SD tonight and it left me feeling bad, as I was (projecting) annoyance and disgust for me onto him, this time, which doesn't usually happen. I keep myself pretty darn impersonal with him.

Believe me I know that feeling, BUT (as this is not about me and I can be more sensible and objective ) I would say I did a secret cheer to read that you actually were able to say those things and project those feelings to him Beebers. Especailly as you say you keep it so impersonal usually. That IS progress, that 's you really expressing how you feel, however uncomfortable that may feel now.

Maybe that is why the therapy IRL rather that by computer screen may feel so daunting.....there would be less opportunity to keep it so impersonal IRL perhaps. I think I would find it much tougher by computer to relate, I'm sure you wouldn't faint in person ((((BB))))), but you would have anxieties and fears that are shared by so many people when they go to therapists for the first time.

Sending you much love and thoughts,

starfish

I D K!! ((((Beebles))))
There are so many in our e-family who can, and have offered you their insights/advice and assistance - I wish I could do the same but all I can offer is lots of caring and lots of hugs!!
xo M

quote:

Originally posted by blackbird:
And I can't help feeling like if I can't work through this relationship, I won't be able to work through any relationships..

No truer words have ever been spoken! That is the essence of the therapeutic relationship...to provide us a place to "practice" relationships so that we can apply it to "real life".

quote:

And I can't help feeling like if I can't work through this relationship, I won't be able to work through any relationships.. it's right here, and right now..and if I can figure out how to make this one work, than I will have a skill.

Beebs, what you write here is what has me really very concerned. You are not supposed to figure out how to work through this relationship with your T. It's not supposed to be this hard. What you say about trying to figure it out and make it work out.... by doing this you are entering into a complete reenactment of your childhood. If you could just figure out how to please your parents, then it would all be fine, or please the other adults in your life then you could make the outcome different....better.

By entering into a relationship where you have to bend and twist yourself into something in order to "make" the relationship work out and work out in a better way than your past childhood relationships... you are entering into the repetition compulsion that is so prevalent with trauma backgrounds. We somehow get involved in relationships that are familiar to our past dysfunctional relationships BUT this time we are bound and determined to change the outcome to something better... and if we could JUST figure out what the secret is what the key is to doing this then all would be just fine.

Unfortunately, it does not work that way. What we need to learn is to avoid those relationship by identifying them early on (via red flags) and not have to figure out how to make them work.

I am just concerned for you Beebs. I am not asking you to leave your T because I know how hard that is. Only you can decide when and if you are ready to do that. I just want to make you aware of what I see happening in your therapeutic relationship. Maybe it would help in discussing this fact with your T. Maybe if he is aware of it he can somehow work with you on changing this.

I hope you had a nice weekend with your family and could relax a bit.

Hugs
TN

(((((bb)))))
I don't really have any words of advice. Just wanted to say I'm thinking of you and hoping things get easier soon. ~jd

Thinking of you...(((bb)))
seablue

(((Beebs))) I don't have much to add that hasn't already been said, but I do want you to know that I am sorry this is so hard and I'm praying for you.

love, Aglet

(((((((((BB))))))))))

I understand the blanking all too well. It happens to me too and I happen to KNOW I trust my T more than anyone except my husband. I am not exaggerating here. After eight months, I communicate with him deep, vulnerable stuff more often and more easily than ANY other person except the guy who has been sharing my bed for almost eight years and I've been with for over 12. And, sometimes I even have an easier time talking to T than H. That said, I still often have trouble coming in and initiating a conversation. I struggle to answer his questions. Sometimes just him asking something that makes me have intense feelings completely blanks my mind and I retreat into myself and kind am not even in the room anymore. I think that is quite a normal experience for many people when discussing deep, hard stuff. I get the good and evil thing too.

At the same time, I do agree that you shouldn't have to push yourself so hard to make things "work." I don't know whether it is actually T pushing you or maybe you are pushing yourself. What I have found is the more I push, the more the scared parts inside resist and the slower I go. Sometimes, I don't know how to stop pushing...I just can't and I don't know why. But, if you can (either tell T to slow down and identify things that are making you feel such pressure to "work" so hard or slow things down on your own and realize where you are pressuring yourself), you may actually move more quickly and smoothly than trying to "exercise" this relationship so hard all the time. You are OK as you are, just being, and being accepted...and I hope when you see the "good" T, that he is getting that message across to you.