Sorry...
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I think others will have much better feedback than me but I can relate to some of what you have written about.
I know that for me, I didn’t feel certain feelings – like I didn’t miss what I didn’t have because I hadn’t yet experienced something else. I didn’t miss having a good safe doctor relationship because I didn’t know that it was possible or what it was like. Until I was 16, all I knew of doctors was my uncle. He wasn’t hugely abusive, but he wasn’t good – he crossed boundaries and covered up abuse. I didn’t like him, but I know anything different… Then as an adult, when I had my own doctor, and it was a healthy relationship, I was like whoa… Then I felt the pain, loss, anger… lots of feelings. It is possible you may not have really deeply felt that abandonment pain when you were younger – just like your T has said. It may be that you dissociated it and never felt it then. It may be something you feel for the first time as you experience something different – like with your T or your daughter.
I have had the feeling from other posts that you would like qualities in your T that are qualities that your mom or dad should have had (which is normal if you do) – like being protective, kind, compassionate… and that’s a good sign you are getting in touch with those needs, and fearing the loss of them, even though right now they are not directed at the original/first source of where you should have had protection, compassion, care… It might be like you are going through things that you never went through as a kid, as you learn to attach to your T.
I do think you will integrate everything you need to integrate, and I also know it takes time. It varies for people how long it takes, and I don’t want to say how long it takes. I think you have made amazing progress in just a few months though and are on the path towards integrating.
jd
I know that for me, I didn’t feel certain feelings – like I didn’t miss what I didn’t have because I hadn’t yet experienced something else. I didn’t miss having a good safe doctor relationship because I didn’t know that it was possible or what it was like. Until I was 16, all I knew of doctors was my uncle. He wasn’t hugely abusive, but he wasn’t good – he crossed boundaries and covered up abuse. I didn’t like him, but I know anything different… Then as an adult, when I had my own doctor, and it was a healthy relationship, I was like whoa… Then I felt the pain, loss, anger… lots of feelings. It is possible you may not have really deeply felt that abandonment pain when you were younger – just like your T has said. It may be that you dissociated it and never felt it then. It may be something you feel for the first time as you experience something different – like with your T or your daughter.
I have had the feeling from other posts that you would like qualities in your T that are qualities that your mom or dad should have had (which is normal if you do) – like being protective, kind, compassionate… and that’s a good sign you are getting in touch with those needs, and fearing the loss of them, even though right now they are not directed at the original/first source of where you should have had protection, compassion, care… It might be like you are going through things that you never went through as a kid, as you learn to attach to your T.
I do think you will integrate everything you need to integrate, and I also know it takes time. It varies for people how long it takes, and I don’t want to say how long it takes. I think you have made amazing progress in just a few months though and are on the path towards integrating.
jd
(((((yaku and yaku's inner kiddo)))))
My father was pretty abandoning as a child and as an adult. I did attach a little to him as a kid, in a very disorganized way. I can remember missing him as a child, but it wasn’t the same as the depth of pain I would feel when my mother would be gone. I attached to her in a very insecure way. Now, as an adult, I still want a father. The most vulnerable parts of me want a dad, very badly. But not my actual father. I don’t want him. I have seen him in person only a handful of time in the past decade, and it’s been weird. I find that I don’t really miss him as a person…
For me, grieving comes as I realize what I didn’t have. Like as a nanny, sometimes I see really sweet moments between dads and their daughters and it stirs up a deep ache in my heart for something I never had. I want it, but not from my actual father.
With my T, yeah, part of the mourning is what my T can’t provide, but that is a very small part actually. (It usually happens when I bump up against a boundary – but even that has ending up being healing too over the long run.) The majority of the mourning (so far) is actually about what I never had in the first place and still need in my life in some ways now. My therapy is a launching pad of sorts for my life and relationships outside of my T. I guess I see it like this: our Ts give us a place to practice, and then we go out in the world and find other ways to get these needs met. My T can’t be my parent, but she is parental in a lot of ways – guiding, protecting, giving advice… and as I learn to feel some things with her, I open up my heart and heal and increase my capacity to feel more and more in other relationships… which leads to even more healing…
I still have the “dad” needs. My T can’t meet them entirely. My actual father can’t meet them at all. But through my T and other relationships in my life, the needs are met “enough” to have me grow over time… As I have learned how to grow and attach with my T, I have also connected with others in my life that help sort of fill in the dad needs. I have more and healthier relationships over time and through those, the dad needs that I have are met, in very healing ways. None of it would have happened if I hadn’t first “practiced” with my T. And I’m still very much in the middle of this process…
It is only as an adult that I am experiencing what secure attachment even feels like with my T. Yeah, one day, my T won’t be in my life. That’s true with our parents too in a way. But our relationships with our Ts can be a place to learn a new way to attach, and to grow, to heal… and as we do, we don’t need them so much and can get our needs met in other relationships… There is loss, just as there is with the death of parents, or just simple growing up… and we get to walk through that with our Ts too. The process isn’t all painful, but yeah, there is some pain.
My T and I use the analogy of warm and cold water. When you have been in only cold water, your body goes numb. Then, if you go from cold to warm water, it stings as your body warms up. The end result is wonderful – feeling warm and alive and not being so used to cold water I'm numb to anything else. I have been in the proverbial warm water in some ways. It is worth the pain of warming up and feeling. And sometimes, yeah, that pain goes deep...
This is part of why the pace of doing this work in therapy is important – doing too much can shock our systems and end up retraumatizing us to where the warm water just plain hurts and then we re-coil and never want to go back. In a way, I would actually say that having this process take a little bit of time is a good thing. It helps in the integration process for me to give myself time to adjust. It's also very painful as I rather just be warm and not numb all over right now and not go through a long process.
It’s my understanding that it’s common for people who have experienced abandonment in life to be drawn towards developing relationships with people who are “unavailable” in various ways. It can be a re-enactment thing. It can be also just simply picking what *feels* safest, and what is the most known. If kiddo always stays in the cold water (the unavaible relationships), you don’t have to risk the pain of warming up (so to speak) in relationships where you can get needs met. There is also the fact that teachers and the like are the people who have been around, and in some ways, who were maybe the easiest and most available to attach to, even if they were going to be relationships that ended. It’s hard to seek out and risk and attach with a safe person as an adult (let alone as a child) if you haven’t experienced it a lot before and had a lot of good practice with safe parents. (And now we get to have that practice with our Ts.) I think you/kiddo are learning and will keep learning how to attach to others who will stay around longer. My T says at first, it’s going to feel awkward, like riding a bike or learning to dance (and she always says they are not perfect analogies.) Over time, we learn the steps and how to go with it, and then enjoy it…
And therapy, yeah, it isn’t always so comfortable, it has it's limits, but it is safe and will help you with the needs that can be met in therapy, and with the needs that can't be met within the limits of the theraputic relationship. For me, that safeness of the relationship is terribly painful and hard and confusing to experience. The pain is there, and the joy too - and the joy will come, more and more for you. I really believe that...
eh, I am rambling on a bit. This is just my perspective from what I've learned the process is like for me so far and what my T says is to come... I do know the joy is real though. That part I am sure of.
hugs,
~ jd
My father was pretty abandoning as a child and as an adult. I did attach a little to him as a kid, in a very disorganized way. I can remember missing him as a child, but it wasn’t the same as the depth of pain I would feel when my mother would be gone. I attached to her in a very insecure way. Now, as an adult, I still want a father. The most vulnerable parts of me want a dad, very badly. But not my actual father. I don’t want him. I have seen him in person only a handful of time in the past decade, and it’s been weird. I find that I don’t really miss him as a person…
For me, grieving comes as I realize what I didn’t have. Like as a nanny, sometimes I see really sweet moments between dads and their daughters and it stirs up a deep ache in my heart for something I never had. I want it, but not from my actual father.
With my T, yeah, part of the mourning is what my T can’t provide, but that is a very small part actually. (It usually happens when I bump up against a boundary – but even that has ending up being healing too over the long run.) The majority of the mourning (so far) is actually about what I never had in the first place and still need in my life in some ways now. My therapy is a launching pad of sorts for my life and relationships outside of my T. I guess I see it like this: our Ts give us a place to practice, and then we go out in the world and find other ways to get these needs met. My T can’t be my parent, but she is parental in a lot of ways – guiding, protecting, giving advice… and as I learn to feel some things with her, I open up my heart and heal and increase my capacity to feel more and more in other relationships… which leads to even more healing…
I still have the “dad” needs. My T can’t meet them entirely. My actual father can’t meet them at all. But through my T and other relationships in my life, the needs are met “enough” to have me grow over time… As I have learned how to grow and attach with my T, I have also connected with others in my life that help sort of fill in the dad needs. I have more and healthier relationships over time and through those, the dad needs that I have are met, in very healing ways. None of it would have happened if I hadn’t first “practiced” with my T. And I’m still very much in the middle of this process…
It is only as an adult that I am experiencing what secure attachment even feels like with my T. Yeah, one day, my T won’t be in my life. That’s true with our parents too in a way. But our relationships with our Ts can be a place to learn a new way to attach, and to grow, to heal… and as we do, we don’t need them so much and can get our needs met in other relationships… There is loss, just as there is with the death of parents, or just simple growing up… and we get to walk through that with our Ts too. The process isn’t all painful, but yeah, there is some pain.
My T and I use the analogy of warm and cold water. When you have been in only cold water, your body goes numb. Then, if you go from cold to warm water, it stings as your body warms up. The end result is wonderful – feeling warm and alive and not being so used to cold water I'm numb to anything else. I have been in the proverbial warm water in some ways. It is worth the pain of warming up and feeling. And sometimes, yeah, that pain goes deep...
This is part of why the pace of doing this work in therapy is important – doing too much can shock our systems and end up retraumatizing us to where the warm water just plain hurts and then we re-coil and never want to go back. In a way, I would actually say that having this process take a little bit of time is a good thing. It helps in the integration process for me to give myself time to adjust. It's also very painful as I rather just be warm and not numb all over right now and not go through a long process.
It’s my understanding that it’s common for people who have experienced abandonment in life to be drawn towards developing relationships with people who are “unavailable” in various ways. It can be a re-enactment thing. It can be also just simply picking what *feels* safest, and what is the most known. If kiddo always stays in the cold water (the unavaible relationships), you don’t have to risk the pain of warming up (so to speak) in relationships where you can get needs met. There is also the fact that teachers and the like are the people who have been around, and in some ways, who were maybe the easiest and most available to attach to, even if they were going to be relationships that ended. It’s hard to seek out and risk and attach with a safe person as an adult (let alone as a child) if you haven’t experienced it a lot before and had a lot of good practice with safe parents. (And now we get to have that practice with our Ts.) I think you/kiddo are learning and will keep learning how to attach to others who will stay around longer. My T says at first, it’s going to feel awkward, like riding a bike or learning to dance (and she always says they are not perfect analogies.) Over time, we learn the steps and how to go with it, and then enjoy it…
And therapy, yeah, it isn’t always so comfortable, it has it's limits, but it is safe and will help you with the needs that can be met in therapy, and with the needs that can't be met within the limits of the theraputic relationship. For me, that safeness of the relationship is terribly painful and hard and confusing to experience. The pain is there, and the joy too - and the joy will come, more and more for you. I really believe that...
eh, I am rambling on a bit. This is just my perspective from what I've learned the process is like for me so far and what my T says is to come... I do know the joy is real though. That part I am sure of.
hugs,
~ jd
Hi Yaku,
I've wondered this a lot, too. My T talks a lot about integration...integrating feelings, emotions, memories, etc. I've dissociated a lot of stuff as well, and so little of it has come back that I wonder if it ever will. I've been in therapy for 2 years, 1 of those with my current T, and for the most part, I still don't feel much and don't remember much. I just wanted to quote something that Jane said, though:
I really, really, really relate to this. The reason I don't want it from my dad is because he is emotionally and sometimes verbally abusive and just not 'safe' to me. I have actually felt this longing and ache recently, and it is very painful. I've had to avoid thinking about it because I'm too scared of how deep the pain goes. But I'm also kind of scared of bringing up this situation with my T because I feel kind of...I don't know. I feel like it's something I shouldn't want, so it's ridiculous for me to long for it. Intellectually, I know that's not true, but it *feels* like I shouldn't want that. Anyway, that is also the only time for me that I have really connected any mourning of that sort to one of my parents.
I know my T believes that this sort of integration is possible, and I really respect her as a person and especially as a T. So relying on her knowledge and belief is pretty much the only thing that keeps me from saying, this is ridiculous, this can never happen. My relationship with my T and all the questions I have about it also make me wonder if I actually am playing out 'scenarios' with her. I don't really know, and I don't really know what kind of attachment style I have. I was attached to my mom at some point in my life, but I haven't felt that attachment for a long time, and I don't remember ever fully attaching to anyone else. Sort of similar to your situation, Yaku, I had a teacher once that I wanted to be proud of me, and I felt it at the time like I wanted him to be my father or at least feel fatherly toward me. And it was hard, because it was impossible.
I kind of got off track from where I was going, but the thing with my relationship with my T is that, at the moment, I really don't *feel* attached to her even though she is an important person to me. I still have a hard time opening up to her and being myself, because I guess I still don't feel a hundred percent safe with her yet, even after a year..? I don't know. But it's actually this lack of feeling for my T that makes me think maybe some scenario is playing out, because I would think that if I had a healthy attachment style, I would at least realize that she is a completely safe person, and I just don't feel that way yet (although I realize it cognitively). So, even though I have a lot of doubts about integrating dissociated stuff (I'm speaking strictly for my situation, as I do believe it is possible for others), I do think that a lot can happen simply with your relationship with your T.
I hope that makes sense...I didn't really mean to ramble. Take care, Yaku. ((((hugs))))
I've wondered this a lot, too. My T talks a lot about integration...integrating feelings, emotions, memories, etc. I've dissociated a lot of stuff as well, and so little of it has come back that I wonder if it ever will. I've been in therapy for 2 years, 1 of those with my current T, and for the most part, I still don't feel much and don't remember much. I just wanted to quote something that Jane said, though:
quote:For me, grieving comes as I realize what I didn’t have. Like as a nanny, sometimes I see really sweet moments between dads and their daughters and it stirs up a deep ache in my heart for something I never had. I want it, but not from my actual father.
I really, really, really relate to this. The reason I don't want it from my dad is because he is emotionally and sometimes verbally abusive and just not 'safe' to me. I have actually felt this longing and ache recently, and it is very painful. I've had to avoid thinking about it because I'm too scared of how deep the pain goes. But I'm also kind of scared of bringing up this situation with my T because I feel kind of...I don't know. I feel like it's something I shouldn't want, so it's ridiculous for me to long for it. Intellectually, I know that's not true, but it *feels* like I shouldn't want that. Anyway, that is also the only time for me that I have really connected any mourning of that sort to one of my parents.
I know my T believes that this sort of integration is possible, and I really respect her as a person and especially as a T. So relying on her knowledge and belief is pretty much the only thing that keeps me from saying, this is ridiculous, this can never happen. My relationship with my T and all the questions I have about it also make me wonder if I actually am playing out 'scenarios' with her. I don't really know, and I don't really know what kind of attachment style I have. I was attached to my mom at some point in my life, but I haven't felt that attachment for a long time, and I don't remember ever fully attaching to anyone else. Sort of similar to your situation, Yaku, I had a teacher once that I wanted to be proud of me, and I felt it at the time like I wanted him to be my father or at least feel fatherly toward me. And it was hard, because it was impossible.
I kind of got off track from where I was going, but the thing with my relationship with my T is that, at the moment, I really don't *feel* attached to her even though she is an important person to me. I still have a hard time opening up to her and being myself, because I guess I still don't feel a hundred percent safe with her yet, even after a year..? I don't know. But it's actually this lack of feeling for my T that makes me think maybe some scenario is playing out, because I would think that if I had a healthy attachment style, I would at least realize that she is a completely safe person, and I just don't feel that way yet (although I realize it cognitively). So, even though I have a lot of doubts about integrating dissociated stuff (I'm speaking strictly for my situation, as I do believe it is possible for others), I do think that a lot can happen simply with your relationship with your T.
I hope that makes sense...I didn't really mean to ramble. Take care, Yaku. ((((hugs))))