((((UV))))

I have sometimes struggled at similar events. I played drums, basketball, volleyball (all of which I eventually quit to become a second mom to my younger siblings). I think my dad came to one concert and one game in six years, and my mom none. They pretty much never went to open houses or back to school nights or talent shows or anything else I participated in. I used to have to beg for rides to games from other kids, which was humiliating to be asked, "How come your parents don't take you?" So, sometimes I get pretty bummed when I go to kids performances or basketball games and see engaged parents. It got the point where I had no interest in them ever wanting to support me and that's where I'm at now. But, I can tell, through how the "kids" want stuff (like having dreams about T seeing us play drums at church) that it's not just the abuse stuff, but just the lack of nurturing experiences that really needs correction. T has talked about grieving and mourning those things I couldn't have, but the kids are emphatic that they don't want to grow up in THAT way. So, I'm feeling kind of stuck...like I said in that other thread, singing the "I won't grow up" song from Peter Pan right now. Ugh, I just want to drop out of therapy and...anyway, sorry to take over, just relate to your feelings. (((UV))) I'm sorry it's so hard.

UV,

I'm so sorry. I can relate so much to how your felt at the recital as I've experienced that myself at things for my children. I'm intimately familiar with the sadness that you speak of at realizing what you didn't have and what you will never get. Things like T's vacations or them talking about spending time with family really point out that we are just clients and no matter how much our T's like us or care for us we are still nothing more than a client and never will be. For me, it is such a replay of my childhood in that this other person, this adult that I care so much for doesn't care for me in the same way. My T is much more important to me than I am to her and my parents were much more important to me than I was to them. It sucks and it causes such a deep sadness that is actually physically painful to experience now. Even though I know that my T cares for me and wants the best for me and does give me so much of what I was missing long ago, it still doesn't replace what I didn't have.

T says that eventually that deep longing and sadness will turn to just a wistful state where you wish things had been different but can accept that they weren't. I don't know how one arrives at that place, but I guess just sitting with the awful feelings is a start. (((hugs)))

When does your T come back?

Wow UV I am blown away if I had anything to do with you getting to this place. I know it is so very painful. I know it is but I can tell you this you are well on your way to healing. I have gone through this too in chunks and I am making my way to the other side and already the freedom from the constant insecurity is unbelievable.

Just know that you don't have to be alone with it. I am glad you came here to get support. YOu deserve it.

It is true that once our childhood is over it is truly over. Your T can still be a tremendous support. I hope you can share this with your T when they get back. The truth is you will probably be closure to your T when you are able to share this grief with him or her (wasn't clear if your t is male or female). S/he can't replace what you never got but s/he can be there with you as you grieve it. I just know that your T will see this as a huge break through. That's how it's going with my new T now. I feel closer to her than anyone ever before.

Best of luck and many hugs.

(((UV)))

I was in a couple of recitals when I was little but I still cry when I go to them. I cry not only for my kids but for all the kids I know and love. They can be difficult.

It's so hard to face the bare facts of who we really are to our T's. I am finding it one of the most painful things in my entire life. I read somewhere it is called the HUGE BIND. It hurts. I guess, though, there are boundaries in every relationship. This one is so especially painful.

Yaku, a quick aside, I have to give you tons of credit for being as involved as your were even WITHOUT parental support. I sat home in a state of anger.

Liese

Hi UV,
Please don't worry about responding, but I just wanted to say that I'm sorry for the pain you're in. I have faced the grief that you're dealing with, and it was one of the most difficult things I have ever done. But I also want to tell you that coming to grips with this loss, letting yourself feel it, was for me, the last, deepest thing I needed to do to heal. I know it's not much comfort, but I think you're feeling this is a result of all the hard work you've done with your T. You are so clear about having to face your feelings and being honest with your T and its working. I also want to encourage you that as painful as it is right now, there is another side of this grief. I always thought that if I let myself feel it, it would be endless but it turned out there was another side to despair. I am glad you plan on taking this to your therapist. I hope you are able to find some comfort.

AG

AG,

What is the other side of this despair?

((((UV))))

Sorry you are so burnt out. Get some rest! Good luck at your session later in the week.

I understand UV as I am sure everyone else does too. Hang in there.

I also want to encourage you that as painful as it is right now, there is another side of this grief. I always thought that if I let myself feel it, it would be endless but it turned out there was another side to despair. I am glad you plan on taking this to your therapist. I hope you are able to find some comfort.

Thanks for saying that AG. That validated me too. I am in the middle of this grief as well but I can say that already I am seeing the other side. Oh and I definitely see this as UV's hard work. I didn't mean to say that I got her there but I was proud that maybe I helped although the pain is so bad that I sort of shoud be quiet about that. It's like saying "Oh I am so glad I helped you break your heart"

= (



Liese I can't really answer for AG but I can say that for me the other side of this grief is freedom. Freedom from the constant search for someone to rescue me and more. At least that is what I have found so far.

I'm feeling like a big FAIL right now, because that sounds literally...impossible to me. I know that's an immature state of cognition or something, but even though intellectually, that all makes sense, I can not conceptualize it as possible or true that there will be change or healing through this pain. And I can't stop trying to not feel it right now...

It's like the kids have been told too many lies to believe anything anyone says anymore, even me...or something like that.

Yaku,
I know it's impossible to believe, that's why I keep saying it. You can heal. We all can. It's what makes the pain worth it.

Thanks for the encouragement. I'm sure all of us here, from time to time, need to hear these things...

quote:

In fact, I don't want to be free of it, because while I am needing, I am still hoping.

Yes, Monte, that's exactly it! That's what I mean when I say that my little parts don't want to grow up THAT way. They would rather suffer endlessly or die than give up the idea that someone can meet that need in the way they want...

And I don't know what to do for them.

UV, I am sorry for your pain and agony. It always seems strange to me that the person who is the source of the emotional pain is also supposed to be the source of comforting it to some extent- there *is* something powerfully healing in that having the person there with you in the pain, if the T can get it right. I hope and pray that yours does- and from everything you've written about him it seems like he will.

UV, I've experienced a glimpse of this from time to time, only to lose it again, but enough to know it's true and that AG is right about it, so I wanted to just quote it since it helps to try to let this concept in, even though like Monte, I do not want to :

quote:

The other side of the despair was realizing that I didn't stop in the pain and grief, that the feelings moved through me and I was still here. That the loss did not destroy me. That mourning the loss is allowing me to stop looking for what I can no longer get, which leaves room to take in and enjoy what I can get. That even though my needs weren't met as a child, they can be now. That I can be heard and understood now, that I can love and be loved, that I am worthwhile despite how I was treated as a child. That I can be known and have someone stay. That although life will always contain difficulties and pain and sorrow and hurt, it will also hold discovery and excitement and joy and comfort. And that I can accept both. That I have so many more choices than I ever realized and that half the fun is going over the hill to see what's there.

It hurts to let the light in,I gotta say, so we do keep the blinds shut- but I know we all need to slowly let a bit of it in like medicine, as we can tolerate it.

UV, I hope that we can be here to support you in the way that you need during the rest of your break from your lovely T.

BB

BB - Is page 2 stalking you or something? If you want, you can delete and move your post and I will take the hit!

Thanks Yaku, but no- I think it is a page two learning experience. Stuff always seems to happen to us that most annoys and hurts us and there has to be a reason for that, the cosmos is trying teach me to accept page two, perhaps, and poor UV to accept the more painful experience of having her thread hijacked by me going on about it..

sorry UV..

quote:

Basically, those who are not able to grieve remain attached to the person of loss (or at least that's how i interepreted the theory) and cannot move forward. So I translate this as being attached to my object losses-more concretely, perhaps my dysfunctional and depressed family-in the form of depression, self-sabatoging behavior (though maybe still unconscious), and not allowing myself to experience joy.

This statement reminds me of how I feel with regard to my oldT. I am having the worst time getting through the grief and letting go. I'm also stuck in my therapy because I cannot seem to talk to my T about the things that are unrelated to oldT. It like there is a wall between me and all the stuff I need to access and my oldT is standing there with his arms blocking my way. I just cannot get to the other side of this grief to where the other issues wait to be revealed and discussed with my T. I just don't know what to do about this.

And this is piled on what I lost in childhood. I lost the opportunity to actually BE the center of attention for someone where it would have been the acceptable thing to be. I never had a chance to experience so much and that loss is made so painful in the past year. That oldT knew this and handed me another unbearable loss makes me just want to give up and crawl away.

UV... I'm glad you were able to adapt the article psychodynamically and that it helped you. UV your original story of this thread really resonated with me. A few years ago I attended open school night at my son's elementary school. The principal made a little speech, she was new and introduced herself and her credentials, and then she introduced all the teachers, counselors, school psychologist and special ed teachers. Everyone had so many degrees and were so accomplished and many were still fairly young. I felt so stupid and inadequate, working a job I disliked and felt like such a huge failure. I remembered how I had no parental help or guidance for school or career nor any money and no knowledge on how to work the system to find scholarships or grants. No one cared if I went to college or work and it made me so very sad.

Even though I eventually decided to return to school for a degree, it's not the same. I do it on line and don't have real classmates and professors that I know. There is grief in all of this. I can get a degree but I have lost the experience of going to college with my peers and going through a normal developmental stage of leaving home and individuating. I can somewhat do this in therapy but it 's just NOT the same. And in that space... lies the grief.

TN