....
Original Post
Replies sorted oldest to newest
((((LG)))) I'm so sorry. Being forgotten is the worst. It triggers all sorts of abandonment stuff in me. I'm also sorry that you are back in a place of feeling like your T doesn't care about you and her apologies didn't seem genuine. 
When is your next session?
When is your next session?
LG - maybe you could send her the letter. I know how it is not wanting to waste your own "talk" time on those things. I'll tell you that you're not beating a dead horse. You are protesting her inconsistency and that's completely valid. For what it's worth, my T is nearly always late by 10-20 minutes and I know for a fact that he does care about me, in his T-like way.
As for nothing she says making the situation better, that just seems...um, natural? Of course she cannot SAY something to make the situation better. It is not something she SAID that caused this rift. It is something she DID. My T, when I have complained about how long it is taking for me to feel safe and secure in the relationship, and when I have asked him for verbal reassurances that he is safe, has told me:
1. That he believes he is safe, although no human being is going to be perfect all the time, of course.
2. That what I need is not to HEAR that he is safe, because those words are meaningless by themselves, especially to those who have very badly damaged trust from early relationships. He says what I need is to SEE he is safe, caring, consistent, etc. So, maybe you can tell her that it will just take time for her to show those things repeatedly until you feel more trusting and for both of you to endeavor to be patient with that process. Anyone, when their trust has been compromised will take time to resolve it and risk again. Someone with a history of having their trust violated will almost inevitably take more time and work to reestablish that trust.
As for nothing she says making the situation better, that just seems...um, natural? Of course she cannot SAY something to make the situation better. It is not something she SAID that caused this rift. It is something she DID. My T, when I have complained about how long it is taking for me to feel safe and secure in the relationship, and when I have asked him for verbal reassurances that he is safe, has told me:
1. That he believes he is safe, although no human being is going to be perfect all the time, of course.
2. That what I need is not to HEAR that he is safe, because those words are meaningless by themselves, especially to those who have very badly damaged trust from early relationships. He says what I need is to SEE he is safe, caring, consistent, etc. So, maybe you can tell her that it will just take time for her to show those things repeatedly until you feel more trusting and for both of you to endeavor to be patient with that process. Anyone, when their trust has been compromised will take time to resolve it and risk again. Someone with a history of having their trust violated will almost inevitably take more time and work to reestablish that trust.
LG,
First I want to say how sorry I am. It sounds really painful and I know I would feel much the same in the circumstances. I do not want to minimize the pain you are in, because I know it’s very real but I want to approach this from a different angle.
Of course your T should have followed up on your message and been prepared to meet with you at 8 AM. It’s a clear screw up that she didn’t and she rightfully apologized to you because she really did do something wrong and she failed you.
BUT, is it possible to consider that your feelings of her not caring, of you not being important to her are more about YOUR past, then HER feelings in the present? The truth is that all human beings will eventually fail us, no matter how much they love us. I love my two daughters more than I can begin to express but that doesn’t mean I don’t sometimes forget to respond to a text, or answer an email, or follow through on something I’ve told them that I would do. All of that is about my human fallibility and sometimes juggling too many things and all kinds of factors, none of which have anything to do with how I feel about my daughters nor how important they are to me. When we were not able to rely on our caregivers when we were small, we tend to internalize really bad feelings about ourselves, espeically in the area of not mattering, and not being worthy of care. So when someone important fails us, it’s hard to see it as their just being human and something that is bound to happen from time to time (even with a therapist, they are unfortunately also human). The real test of a person’s feelings is do they take responsiblity? Do they work to repair the mistake? But it’s very hard to hang onto those realities when our feelings are screaming really hard at us.
I had a tendency to see my T very differently at times. Either he was a near Godlike figure who was perfectly compassionate, always knew what to say, and cared deeply for me. But then something would go wrong, and he would become this cruel, uncaring, distant figure who had been lying to me. It took a lot of time but I eventually came to see that he was neither of those things. He’s a really good therapist, and often says and does the right things and I am absolutely certain that within the boundaries of the theraputic relationship he cares very deeply, even loves me. But he’s also lousy at answering email, is crap at returning non-emergency phonecalls and even occasionally has lapses in attunement. Oh and we really don’t agree about politics.
But none of that means he doesn’t care, it just means he’s bad at that stuff.
But I agree with Green that part of why this was painful is that your T told you that she was with her partner. It’s always difficult when we run up against the parts of our T we can’t have. I often had a difficult time with my Ts vacations, because they are often centered around family, especially now that he has grandchildren and none of them live locally. We’ve discussed it (ok, I’ve written him an email when he was on vacation about hating his family because they get a part of him I never will.
). I think it was unwise of your T to self-disclose about what she was doing when she failed to appear for your appt. She should have just acknowledged that she screwed up.
And I want to gently add one more thing, I think you have a very high level of contact with your T. The more frequent the contact, the more opportunities there are for the inevitable failures to happen; in other words, you’re going to bump into her humaness more often.
AG
First I want to say how sorry I am. It sounds really painful and I know I would feel much the same in the circumstances. I do not want to minimize the pain you are in, because I know it’s very real but I want to approach this from a different angle.
Of course your T should have followed up on your message and been prepared to meet with you at 8 AM. It’s a clear screw up that she didn’t and she rightfully apologized to you because she really did do something wrong and she failed you.
BUT, is it possible to consider that your feelings of her not caring, of you not being important to her are more about YOUR past, then HER feelings in the present? The truth is that all human beings will eventually fail us, no matter how much they love us. I love my two daughters more than I can begin to express but that doesn’t mean I don’t sometimes forget to respond to a text, or answer an email, or follow through on something I’ve told them that I would do. All of that is about my human fallibility and sometimes juggling too many things and all kinds of factors, none of which have anything to do with how I feel about my daughters nor how important they are to me. When we were not able to rely on our caregivers when we were small, we tend to internalize really bad feelings about ourselves, espeically in the area of not mattering, and not being worthy of care. So when someone important fails us, it’s hard to see it as their just being human and something that is bound to happen from time to time (even with a therapist, they are unfortunately also human). The real test of a person’s feelings is do they take responsiblity? Do they work to repair the mistake? But it’s very hard to hang onto those realities when our feelings are screaming really hard at us.
I had a tendency to see my T very differently at times. Either he was a near Godlike figure who was perfectly compassionate, always knew what to say, and cared deeply for me. But then something would go wrong, and he would become this cruel, uncaring, distant figure who had been lying to me. It took a lot of time but I eventually came to see that he was neither of those things. He’s a really good therapist, and often says and does the right things and I am absolutely certain that within the boundaries of the theraputic relationship he cares very deeply, even loves me. But he’s also lousy at answering email, is crap at returning non-emergency phonecalls and even occasionally has lapses in attunement. Oh and we really don’t agree about politics.
But none of that means he doesn’t care, it just means he’s bad at that stuff. But I agree with Green that part of why this was painful is that your T told you that she was with her partner. It’s always difficult when we run up against the parts of our T we can’t have. I often had a difficult time with my Ts vacations, because they are often centered around family, especially now that he has grandchildren and none of them live locally. We’ve discussed it (ok, I’ve written him an email when he was on vacation about hating his family because they get a part of him I never will.
). I think it was unwise of your T to self-disclose about what she was doing when she failed to appear for your appt. She should have just acknowledged that she screwed up. And I want to gently add one more thing, I think you have a very high level of contact with your T. The more frequent the contact, the more opportunities there are for the inevitable failures to happen; in other words, you’re going to bump into her humaness more often.
AG
(((LG))),
I'm so sorry that your T forgot your session. I can only imagine how upset you'd be. I am glad that you are seeing her again tomorrow, and that hopefully you will be able to work everything out.
It sounds like there are some things that need to be brought to the table. It sounds like a little rupture that needs patched up. T should understand why it's so important to you. She needs to know that you expect certain things from her, and that she needs to follow through. Therapy is about trust, and with abandonment issues, it's so hard for us when they do one little thing to make it feel like they don't care.
I agree with Green and AG. It's definitely triggering you finding out that she was with her partner. I can understand completely why this would be hard. I'd probably feel completely a wreck in this situation. It's hard for us to hear about the lives they have on the outside because for us--they are a HUGE part of our lives. Their importance to us is enormous. They love and care for us, too, but there's a stronger attachment coming from this end. That makes me sad all the time because I want my T to be my #1 and I want to be hers.
So, I think it's a good thing to write it all down. Release the pain, share it, patch things up with your T, and that's the way towards healing. I've realized some of the hardest things I have dealt with in therapy have led to moments of pure healing.
Good luck, Love. Hope things improve for you.
--Broken
I'm so sorry that your T forgot your session. I can only imagine how upset you'd be. I am glad that you are seeing her again tomorrow, and that hopefully you will be able to work everything out.
It sounds like there are some things that need to be brought to the table. It sounds like a little rupture that needs patched up. T should understand why it's so important to you. She needs to know that you expect certain things from her, and that she needs to follow through. Therapy is about trust, and with abandonment issues, it's so hard for us when they do one little thing to make it feel like they don't care.
I agree with Green and AG. It's definitely triggering you finding out that she was with her partner. I can understand completely why this would be hard. I'd probably feel completely a wreck in this situation. It's hard for us to hear about the lives they have on the outside because for us--they are a HUGE part of our lives. Their importance to us is enormous. They love and care for us, too, but there's a stronger attachment coming from this end. That makes me sad all the time because I want my T to be my #1 and I want to be hers.
So, I think it's a good thing to write it all down. Release the pain, share it, patch things up with your T, and that's the way towards healing. I've realized some of the hardest things I have dealt with in therapy have led to moments of pure healing.
Good luck, Love. Hope things improve for you.
--Broken
Wow LG things are really pretty rubbish for you with your T at the moment aren’t they?
The very fact that not only did you consider seeing but have actually arranged an appointment with T2 speaks volumes about how badly the relationship with current T is affecting you.
I have to chime in with the others about knowing that your T was with her partner at the precise time she should have been seeing you – there was no need for you to know that and it makes me wonder how aware of your feelings and needs she really is to self disclose to that extent. Sorry I don’t want to bash your T, because I know you have a strong attachment to her and she has her good moments too, it just sounds like she’s doing more missing you than getting you lately.
I also query her accusation that you’re just using her as a punching bag. That may well be her perception of what’s going on, but in my view, if a T can’t tolerate a client being (even unreasonably and irrationally and transferentially) angry at them, then they are in the wrong job. Not that I’m saying your anger is unreasonable, just that even if it were, T ought to be able to handle it and validate it and work through it WITH you, not make you the bad guy because of it.
I do want to throw in some comments here from my own experience about being so upset and disenchanted with a T that you start thinking about seeing another T or going back to a former T (I’ve done that a lot!) I am just a little bit concerned that you are thinking of going back to T2, who seems to have always had a vested interest in opposing your seeing current T, and I wonder if you wouldn’t eventually resent the conditions she would lay out for you before she would consider taking you back. (Ack that would really bother me that she’s setting conditions, I’d much rather have heard that she’d welcome you back with open arms, shades of authoritarian parent figures here for me.)
I know from when I’ve done it, that I go running from one T to another one in anger and disappointment and (underneath it all) a kind of desperate hopelessness and invariably paint the new T in a much more favourable light than they really are – ie I’m LOOKING to see them positively precisely because of the need to find someone better or more sympathetic or more suitable than previous T.
If you seriously consider switching Ts, then it might not be a bad idea to have a proper confrontation with current T, lay everything on the line about the things she’s been doing/not doing that have hurt and been destructive to you – I find that does help in terms of feeling later on that there isn’t any unfinished business and stops the self doubting and the wondering whether maybe I was wrong, mistaken, overreacting etc. I also find that when I’ve already decided internally that I’m going to walk, it’s much easier to say all the things that I’ve been wanting and needing to but haven’t been able to. And sometimes, that can actually resolve a lot of the issues and I find I don’t need to quit after all. It just helps to have that mind set, nothing more to lose so what the hell...
I am really sorry you are having such a hard time, and not having the support you have a right to expect, with what else is going on in your life. I hope your meeting with T2 goes well and even if you don’t go back to her at this point, I think it’s a good thing to do regardless.
Hugs to you ((((((( LG ))))))
LL
The very fact that not only did you consider seeing but have actually arranged an appointment with T2 speaks volumes about how badly the relationship with current T is affecting you.
I have to chime in with the others about knowing that your T was with her partner at the precise time she should have been seeing you – there was no need for you to know that and it makes me wonder how aware of your feelings and needs she really is to self disclose to that extent. Sorry I don’t want to bash your T, because I know you have a strong attachment to her and she has her good moments too, it just sounds like she’s doing more missing you than getting you lately.
I also query her accusation that you’re just using her as a punching bag. That may well be her perception of what’s going on, but in my view, if a T can’t tolerate a client being (even unreasonably and irrationally and transferentially) angry at them, then they are in the wrong job. Not that I’m saying your anger is unreasonable, just that even if it were, T ought to be able to handle it and validate it and work through it WITH you, not make you the bad guy because of it.
I do want to throw in some comments here from my own experience about being so upset and disenchanted with a T that you start thinking about seeing another T or going back to a former T (I’ve done that a lot!) I am just a little bit concerned that you are thinking of going back to T2, who seems to have always had a vested interest in opposing your seeing current T, and I wonder if you wouldn’t eventually resent the conditions she would lay out for you before she would consider taking you back. (Ack that would really bother me that she’s setting conditions, I’d much rather have heard that she’d welcome you back with open arms, shades of authoritarian parent figures here for me.)
I know from when I’ve done it, that I go running from one T to another one in anger and disappointment and (underneath it all) a kind of desperate hopelessness and invariably paint the new T in a much more favourable light than they really are – ie I’m LOOKING to see them positively precisely because of the need to find someone better or more sympathetic or more suitable than previous T.
If you seriously consider switching Ts, then it might not be a bad idea to have a proper confrontation with current T, lay everything on the line about the things she’s been doing/not doing that have hurt and been destructive to you – I find that does help in terms of feeling later on that there isn’t any unfinished business and stops the self doubting and the wondering whether maybe I was wrong, mistaken, overreacting etc. I also find that when I’ve already decided internally that I’m going to walk, it’s much easier to say all the things that I’ve been wanting and needing to but haven’t been able to. And sometimes, that can actually resolve a lot of the issues and I find I don’t need to quit after all. It just helps to have that mind set, nothing more to lose so what the hell...
I am really sorry you are having such a hard time, and not having the support you have a right to expect, with what else is going on in your life. I hope your meeting with T2 goes well and even if you don’t go back to her at this point, I think it’s a good thing to do regardless.
Hugs to you ((((((( LG ))))))
LL
Darn Ts. Mine was 40 minutes late once and I nearly had a nervous breakdown, but at least it was because she was dealing with a client in crisis and not off strolling in the sunshine with her SO. This would have irked me too.
LG, I'm kind of new here and don't know if we've ever "met", but I've read a lot of your posts on here and reading about your relationship with your T has been at times touching and at times heart wrenching. I'm sooo sorry she forgot you like this and that things have not been going well between you. I hope you are able to work this out, or if not, find another T.
LG, I'm kind of new here and don't know if we've ever "met", but I've read a lot of your posts on here and reading about your relationship with your T has been at times touching and at times heart wrenching. I'm sooo sorry she forgot you like this and that things have not been going well between you.
I hope you are able to work this out, or if not, find another T.quote:There is a lot more crappy stuff that has gone on lately that I haven't posted about and quite frankly would be too time consuming to type out, but it really gone down hill in the past two months. I have talked about this with her and she got very angry and defensive and screamed and yelled at me, so talking to her about it doesn't really feel like an option. When I try to bring things up, she says I am just picking fights with her and treating her like a punching bag, even when I say things in a calm and rational voice. I feel like its just too unsettling no matter how or when I bring it up or regardless of the words I use. I feel like I am fighting a losing battle.
LG.. first off I'm really sorry that your T forgot your appointment and on top of that she self-disclosed too much info when she told you about strolling with her partner. That was not necessary for you to know and she had to know on some level how it would impact you to hear that. My current T was 20 minutes late for me the other day and I was just about to walk out when his door opened and an attractive woman walked out. I truly was tempted to trip her!
OldT forgot me one time. We had an appointment for a phone check in when he was away on his 3 week vacation and I LIVED for that day he was supposed to call me. Well, he promptly forgot about me and never called. I left him a sobbing vm and he EMAILED ME saying he was sorry he didn't have cell service that day. That was complete bull. So why didn't he email me to change the date and time? He obviously had email service. On top of that in his email he said... ooops sorry, didn't have service... I'll see you when i get back" Uh... really? I left a hysterical vm again and he finally called me the next morning. It was a really rough 24 hours for me and thankfully I had a good friend talk me down from the ceiling. In my head he was just having too much fun with is wife and family to give me a second thought. It hurt a lot and it hurt more when he just didn't get it.
What disturbs me most is what I quoted above. No T should scream and yell at a client. Her doing that, being defensive and then telling you you are using her as a punching bag sends up huge red flags for me. This combined with forgetting appointment and your being unable to talk to her about your concerns without her getting upset signals to me that this therapy is now contaminated and I don't see how you will be able to get much work done under these conditions. Yes, she is human and prone to mistakes and disruptions. No one is perfect. BUT, if this has now become a pattern for her it's time to be concerned. A screaming T to me says "out of control T" and that is just creating a reenactment for most of us with abusive parents.
I'm glad you called T2 even if you don't end up staying with her it's good to get another viewpoint. What she is calling her conditions are her boundaries to the relationship and it's up to you if you can live with them. In the long run... as has been written here numerous times... there is more safety and healing done with Ts with good, solid boundaries than those with sloppy, inconsistent and ill defined boundaries. My T has strong boundaries and yes, I chafe at them, complain about them and even HATE them at times. I HATE that I cannot make him give me longer sessions, or bring him food, or ask him all sorts of personal questions... but I do understand that the boundaries keep me and my therapy with him safe and it also means that he cares enough to hold them in place.
Sending hugs, LG.
TN
Hugs LG. What the hell is going on with your T - she is losing her marbles or something. She is way too forgetful and that is not good for us. We are the paying client with mental health issues - we are allowed to stuff up from time to time but we need them to be consistent and not stuff up very often. They can occasionally - but not like this. you don't deserve this LG. Use your other T and see how you feel with that. it is great that you have another option.
(((LG)))) I'm really sorry. I can empathize with you as I've been in situations where I've really run into my T's human nature and it's hard. I agree with what AG said about the feeling of not being cared about originating in the past, but of course it hurts like hell in the present.
I can't believe that after today's mess up that she didn't text you a time. That would really hurt me as well.
I can't believe that after today's mess up that she didn't text you a time. That would really hurt me as well.
LG,
I am pissed for you. Your T should have been hyper aware of keeping her word this time. I mean, once is okay. BUT, twice in the same week?
I'm so sorry, Love, that this is happening to you. She better have a damn good explanation. AND I am very glad that you are looking into seeing another T.
My thoughts are with you this evening.
--Broken
I am pissed for you. Your T should have been hyper aware of keeping her word this time. I mean, once is okay. BUT, twice in the same week?
I'm so sorry, Love, that this is happening to you. She better have a damn good explanation. AND I am very glad that you are looking into seeing another T.
My thoughts are with you this evening.
--Broken
(((LG)))
I don't have much to add to the replies you have already received. I'm thinking of you and can imagine how incredibly difficult it is that she didn't text you with an appt time for tomorrow. I'm not surprised that you are having trouble breathing. I don't know why this is happening but I'm sure that you don't deserve it.
hugs,
I don't have much to add to the replies you have already received. I'm thinking of you and can imagine how incredibly difficult it is that she didn't text you with an appt time for tomorrow. I'm not surprised that you are having trouble breathing. I don't know why this is happening but I'm sure that you don't deserve it.
hugs,
quote:We all screw up at times. But its how you handle it that counts.
I absolutely agree with that!
quote:I feel like she has some kind of mental block when it comes to working with me that is probably stemming from her being burned out on working with me.
Most likely it isn't about you at all, but rather a side effect of what is going on for her personally. You've said many times that she is in a rocky relationship and who knows what other life issues she has going on. I'm not excusing her behavior at all, but I hate to see you internalize it as something about you because it probably isn't.
(((((LG)))))
Sorry I am a latecomer. Have been lost in my own private hell for two days. Just wanted to send some hugs. Emotional pain just really is the pits.
Did T1 ever get back to you about your next appointment and did you actually made the appointment with T2?
Hope you are hanging in there.
xoxox
Liese
Sorry I am a latecomer. Have been lost in my own private hell for two days.
Just wanted to send some hugs. Emotional pain just really is the pits. Did T1 ever get back to you about your next appointment and did you actually made the appointment with T2?
Hope you are hanging in there.
xoxox
Liese
quote:I wasn't forgotten as a person to him, but instead, just that date and time was forgotten.
That is a great point, FOT.
LG... did you ever have your session yesterday? Did she call or text since the "forgotten" appointment?
Please let us know how you are doing.
TN
quote:Originally posted by Liese:
(((((LG)))))
Sorry I am a latecomer. Have been lost in my own private hell for two days.
Did T1 ever get back to you about your next appointment and did you actually made the appointment with T2?
Hope you are hanging in there.
xoxox
Liese
Liese, thank you for the hugs. Yes, I did meet with her yesterday and today...Will give that update in a minute...
quote:Originally posted by Free on Thursdays:
Hi LG,
I also want to add my support. I've been thinking about you and hoping that your T contacts you and gives you the opportunity to freely express how this makes you feel.
I was forgotten once by m P and it was both startling and painful. My P apologized for the "scheduling mix-up" which I realized was a sugar-coating of just plainly being forgotten. It would have been far more beneficial had he simply admitted he forgot, which of course would have hurt me to hear, but at the same time it would have given me the opportunity to express how I was feeling.
It could have been an opportunity for growth but instead I was left feeling that I should just forgive and move on, which I did.
Shortly after that, I forgot a good friend's birthday and felt horrible. It's not that I would ever forget "her", I just got the dates mixed up. So that helped me see it from my P's point of view. I wasn't forgotten as a person to him, but instead, just that date and time was forgotten.
Hugs,
FOT
FOT,
I love the example you gave of forgetting the friends birthday. I know that I have forgotten things as well, and its not about that person but had more to do with me, what was going on in my life, and where my mind was. Didn't mean that person wasn't important to me...just that I was preoccupied. Thanks for helping me see it from this angle.
quote:Originally posted by True North:quote:I wasn't forgotten as a person to him, but instead, just that date and time was forgotten.
That is a great point, FOT.
LG... did you ever have your session yesterday? Did she call or text since the "forgotten" appointment?
Please let us know how you are doing.
TN
TN,
We did have an appointment on Tuesday and again today...both appointments were good and we did touch on how I am feeling about the relationship and my therapy with her. I actually told her today that I have an appointment next week with T2 and that I have asked T2 if she will take me back as a client. T1 was actually very supportive of this and said that she wants me to do whatever feels best for me and if that means having two therapists, she is fine with that and even if it means I tell her to go away and only want to see T2, she will understand but that she would like to continue working with me. She said that she cares deeply for me and always has, she said that even in the 16-17 years that we were not in touch, she thought of me often and never stopped caring about me.
She also said that if I am not getting what I need from my therapy with her, she wants me to be able to get those needs met somewhere. She said "however, i would like for you to be able to hear and accept my caring. If you are wanting to term your therapy with me because you don't think I care about you or like you, I have a problem with that because that simply isn't true.I do care. I do like you and its important to me that you are able to believe that".
I disocciated a lot and don't recall the rest of what was said.
I am doing okay. Things are feeling a lot better now than a few days ago, but I am going to keep my appointment next week with T2 because I know that even though I have a few good sessions with T1, things can go south pretty quickly. I think its good for me to be taking steps mentally to distance myself from my therapy with her and to look for alternatives. Maybe she and I can get back on track and get things to a better place, but I don't want to put my hope and faith into that only to be sorely disappointed later when it doesn't work out.
LG I'm glad you were able to sort some of this issue out with your T and that you're feeling a bit better now.
You sound very clear about the negatives coming up in your relationship with T, and also very determined to do what's best for your healing despite the pull of the strong bond you have with her. I really admire your strength in being able to do that, and hope that your meeting with T2 can put you in an even stronger place, at least in terms of choosing what you need to do.
All credit to T1 that she is NOT taking this personally and is actually supporting you in doing what's best for you. And maybe after all, staying with her will be what's best for you? Sounds like you're in for a pretty unsettling and upsetting time though, so sending you lots of good wishes that everything works out the way you want it.
(((( LG ))))
LL
You sound very clear about the negatives coming up in your relationship with T, and also very determined to do what's best for your healing despite the pull of the strong bond you have with her. I really admire your strength in being able to do that, and hope that your meeting with T2 can put you in an even stronger place, at least in terms of choosing what you need to do.
All credit to T1 that she is NOT taking this personally and is actually supporting you in doing what's best for you. And maybe after all, staying with her will be what's best for you? Sounds like you're in for a pretty unsettling and upsetting time though, so sending you lots of good wishes that everything works out the way you want it.
(((( LG ))))
LL
LL,
I agree...credit to T1 for not being upset that I am going to see T2. I am actually wondering if maybe she is relieved that the pressure is off of her. I didn't want to her hurt her feelings or for her to be upset...yet when she wasn't, I did wonder if maybe she wants to get rid of me and was secretly happy I am seeking out another therapist.
I agree...credit to T1 for not being upset that I am going to see T2. I am actually wondering if maybe she is relieved that the pressure is off of her. I didn't want to her hurt her feelings or for her to be upset...yet when she wasn't, I did wonder if maybe she wants to get rid of me and was secretly happy I am seeking out another therapist.
((((LG))))
I would feel the same way you do, wondering if she was relieved. She actually may be very upset but in the context of the therapy relationship, it's not about her feelings, it's about your feelings and what's best for you. She may actually see that she in some way isn't getting what you need from her and that there is still some friction there between what you need and what she is giving. And she just really may not know what that is. And you can't possibly know, because that's why you are going to her for help.
I think it's actually a really good sign that she acted so professionally in this instance because there have been other times with her that she disclosed too much (off the top of my head, when she told you about T2 going to the bathroom when they were on the phone).
There is a huge difference between what she might like to do for you because she cares about you as a person and what she thinks is best on a professional level. And then again, a difference in terms of what might be healthy for you.
I love what she did say to you, how much she really does care, how much she thought about you over the years. It's clear to me, LG, that she really does care.
She may be afraid that she is hurting you. You just don't know. But in either case, it's healthy, IMHO, that you are seeking a consult to straighten it all out in your own mind. On some level, you may realize it's not working. Could it be projection on your part to wonder if she's secretly happy to get rid of you? I have a tendency to see myself as being the one who is being rejected when it was me who was unhappy in the first place and wanted to leave. It puts me in a so much better place to see myself as the one making the choice to leave so I don't know why I do that to myself. Just a thought.
xoxo
Liese
I would feel the same way you do, wondering if she was relieved. She actually may be very upset but in the context of the therapy relationship, it's not about her feelings, it's about your feelings and what's best for you. She may actually see that she in some way isn't getting what you need from her and that there is still some friction there between what you need and what she is giving. And she just really may not know what that is. And you can't possibly know, because that's why you are going to her for help.
I think it's actually a really good sign that she acted so professionally in this instance because there have been other times with her that she disclosed too much (off the top of my head, when she told you about T2 going to the bathroom when they were on the phone).
There is a huge difference between what she might like to do for you because she cares about you as a person and what she thinks is best on a professional level. And then again, a difference in terms of what might be healthy for you.
I love what she did say to you, how much she really does care, how much she thought about you over the years. It's clear to me, LG, that she really does care.
She may be afraid that she is hurting you. You just don't know. But in either case, it's healthy, IMHO, that you are seeking a consult to straighten it all out in your own mind. On some level, you may realize it's not working. Could it be projection on your part to wonder if she's secretly happy to get rid of you? I have a tendency to see myself as being the one who is being rejected when it was me who was unhappy in the first place and wanted to leave. It puts me in a so much better place to see myself as the one making the choice to leave so I don't know why I do that to myself.
Just a thought.xoxo
Liese
Hi, LG...nice to see you...I've not been around but I thought I'd chime in late to as usual these days. I'm sorry to hear that your T has been inconsistent with you again lately. That is really hard to deal with, I feel for you, cause I know how painful it is to be jefked around like a puppet on a string, never knowing whether they will be the same T you had last time. fwiw, I would like to tell you that the difference in having a T who always behaves the same way, week after week...seems to make therapy possible, and I wouldn't go back to this other way, now that I am used to the safety of it. but I am glad to hear that she is cool with you making your own choice about where to go for therapy...fwiw, I doubt that she is relieved to be rid of you- it is probably the opposite, but she is being therapeutically neutral, in this particular case, because she is able to see in this particular instance, how crucially important it would be for you to make your own choice, all on your own on this matter. I guess that is what my old T did for me, but it was pretty brutal in certain ways. I just wanted him to change- to *become* what I needed him to be for me, but he wouldn't/couldn't. It hurt really bad, but I am in a better place now, even though it still hurts. It is ok, you can survive, but I know the agony of trying to make such a truly impossible decision. hugs to you. You will figure it out in time...give yourself the time you need.
BB
BB
Hey LG,
Just checking in to see how you are doing? If you've seen T2 yet and, if so, how that went?
Just checking in to see how you are doing? If you've seen T2 yet and, if so, how that went?
Hey everybody,
Really quick update...things have been super busy in my life lately and I haven't been able to check in here at all lately. Hoping things slow down soon though.
Saw T2 couple of weeks ago. It was amazing and wonderful and she is just such a terrific therapist and worth every expensive penny she charges. She would love to work with me again but I have to term with T1.
T2 will be out of the country the ENTIRE month of November, so that gives me some time to think about things and figure out what I want to do.
Not sure what I want to do at this point. T1 is just one let-down after another. She's flakey,not the best therapist, and that amazing bond we once had that was the main reason I kept going to her seems to be fading quickly. I feel very disillusioned, let down....just sorta "eh, whatever" at this point when it comes to her. We aren't fighting anymore...but that's only because I just sorta stopped trying to fix things because I don't know that I care anymore.
I know the best thing for me to do is to term T1 and start therapy with T2 but the thought of terminating is really difficult for me. I know I will get through it. Its just feeling scary. Hoping that I continue to feel increasingly more and more, "whatever" about T1 and the termination will be easier than expected. But who knows...maybe I will get sucked back in again.
The good news though....T2 will be there for me when I am ready.
PS. I missed how sassy T2 is. She is sharp as a whip and calls me out on my shit in the funniest ways. It was really great to see her again. I told her that I didn't miss her, but that I missed the work we do together. I said that if I come back to therapy with her, I want the firm boundaries that she holds, the professionalism, and that I don't want her to be my friend and I don't want to get attached. I said I want it to be about the therapy and not the relationship.
Also, T2 was horrified that T1 has forgotten not one but two appointments of mine. I said, "yeah, it seems not very professional given that she is working with people who have abandonment issues" and T2 jumped in with, "its terribly unprofessional regardless of that, but especially because of that!"
Told T2 I didn't want to trash T1 and that I respect T1. T2 said, "in a way, you love her" and I said, "yes, I do. But the relationship is not healthy and it is not helping me anymore". T2 smiled at that. I'm not sure what was behind the smile. It was rather strange.
overall, a great session though and it really makes me want to go back for more!
I'm sorry I haven't been around more to keep up with everyone else's lives and therapy issues. I hope to have more time for that in the near future.
Really quick update...things have been super busy in my life lately and I haven't been able to check in here at all lately. Hoping things slow down soon though.
Saw T2 couple of weeks ago. It was amazing and wonderful and she is just such a terrific therapist and worth every expensive penny she charges. She would love to work with me again but I have to term with T1.
T2 will be out of the country the ENTIRE month of November, so that gives me some time to think about things and figure out what I want to do.
Not sure what I want to do at this point. T1 is just one let-down after another. She's flakey,not the best therapist, and that amazing bond we once had that was the main reason I kept going to her seems to be fading quickly. I feel very disillusioned, let down....just sorta "eh, whatever" at this point when it comes to her. We aren't fighting anymore...but that's only because I just sorta stopped trying to fix things because I don't know that I care anymore.
I know the best thing for me to do is to term T1 and start therapy with T2 but the thought of terminating is really difficult for me. I know I will get through it. Its just feeling scary. Hoping that I continue to feel increasingly more and more, "whatever" about T1 and the termination will be easier than expected. But who knows...maybe I will get sucked back in again.
The good news though....T2 will be there for me when I am ready.
PS. I missed how sassy T2 is. She is sharp as a whip and calls me out on my shit in the funniest ways. It was really great to see her again. I told her that I didn't miss her, but that I missed the work we do together. I said that if I come back to therapy with her, I want the firm boundaries that she holds, the professionalism, and that I don't want her to be my friend and I don't want to get attached. I said I want it to be about the therapy and not the relationship.
Also, T2 was horrified that T1 has forgotten not one but two appointments of mine. I said, "yeah, it seems not very professional given that she is working with people who have abandonment issues" and T2 jumped in with, "its terribly unprofessional regardless of that, but especially because of that!"
Told T2 I didn't want to trash T1 and that I respect T1. T2 said, "in a way, you love her" and I said, "yes, I do. But the relationship is not healthy and it is not helping me anymore". T2 smiled at that. I'm not sure what was behind the smile. It was rather strange.
overall, a great session though and it really makes me want to go back for more!
I'm sorry I haven't been around more to keep up with everyone else's lives and therapy issues. I hope to have more time for that in the near future.
((((LG))))
Just really missed you and was a bit worried since when we last heard from you, you were in a state of distress with the T1 thing. But so glad things with T2 worked out well when you saw her.
xoxo
Liese
Just really missed you and was a bit worried since when we last heard from you, you were in a state of distress with the T1 thing. But so glad things with T2 worked out well when you saw her.
xoxo
Liese
Hello, LG...it concerns me that T2 is kind of "trashing" (in very subtle, hard to detect ways) T1. I think the thing I like the best about Cowboy, is that he never has a bad word to say about my old T. Never, not once. He will not go there, even though it would "feel so good" -and I really respect that! But Guru T trashed another famous T that we both knew of to me... which was one of my first red flags. I don't think that T's should comment much on the behavior of other T's- unless the behavior is *really* flagrant- but that is just me. However- it was wrong, very wrong of T1 to forget your appointment. so I can totally see her point.
golly. If you really are not in the least attached to T2...it might be a great idea to go to a T who is totally objective and doesn't have anything to "gain" by your leaving T1, should you choose to do so? I mean, it's not like T2 is winning a battle for your affections or approval...and if it is, then you should run for the hills!
Oh dear...I hope I have not said too much. I *am* glad for you that T2 was welcoming...that must have felt very good. I just worry about this confusing and difficult T situation you are in- and hope and pray you can do some good work with a totally objective T...and that you actually *can* attach in safe and objective relationship with a T who keeps their needs for your approval *out* of the room! You need and deserve that!
Please take it with large grains of salt, as I do not fully understand your situation, but it concerns me that T2 would smile when you say that the relationship was not meeting your needs anymore...I guess I like my cowboy who rarely shows any emotion at all, beyond joking around like a ninny with me...
many hugs,
BB
golly. If you really are not in the least attached to T2...it might be a great idea to go to a T who is totally objective and doesn't have anything to "gain" by your leaving T1, should you choose to do so? I mean, it's not like T2 is winning a battle for your affections or approval...and if it is, then you should run for the hills!
Oh dear...I hope I have not said too much.
I *am* glad for you that T2 was welcoming...that must have felt very good. I just worry about this confusing and difficult T situation you are in- and hope and pray you can do some good work with a totally objective T...and that you actually *can* attach in safe and objective relationship with a T who keeps their needs for your approval *out* of the room! You need and deserve that! Please take it with large grains of salt, as I do not fully understand your situation, but it concerns me that T2 would smile when you say that the relationship was not meeting your needs anymore...I guess I like my cowboy who rarely shows any emotion at all, beyond joking around like a ninny with me...
many hugs,
BB
quote:Told T2 I didn't want to trash T1 and that I respect T1. T2 said, "in a way, you love her" and I said, "yes, I do. But the relationship is not healthy and it is not helping me anymore". T2 smiled at that. I'm not sure what was behind the smile. It was rather strange.
Hi LG... glad to hear you are okay and that you had a session with T2 and that she was as good and as sharp as ever. I KNOW that smile that you saw when you told her what you did about the old relationship not being healthy. I get that same smile from my current T about oldT. It says that he is proud of me for growing and taking care of myself and learning to recognize who is a safe person and who is not. Who makes a good relationship and who should be avoided.
Your T2 sounds a lot like my T. I don't see any reason why you should not go back to her. It didn't sound like she was trashing T1 but merely pointing out some red flags and unprofessional behavior (unless she said other things you did not report here). I think it's very important to have a T with good, firm amd clear boundaries.
I realize that terming with T1 is a huge emotional mountain to climb. I'm sorry I don't have a lot of advice here but I think with time you will find your answer. The drive to health and wholeness is driving you and I think down deep you realize that T1 is not capable of taking you there.
Keep in touch. Sending hugs
TN
Hey BB,
Thank you for your concern. I just want to clarify though, because I think I misled you and others to believe that T2 was trashing T1.
What I meant to say was that T2 pointed out T1s unprofessionalism, and then I went on to say some things that I immediately regretted. I said to T2 that I didn't want to trash T1, that it wasn't my intention to come running to T2 to put her in a weird triangulation by trash talking T1 to her. I had told myself I wouldn't use my session with T2 to complain about T1 endlessly and instead to focus on what I could gain from resuming my therapy with T2, yet there I was slipping into the mode of crying on T2s shoulder about T1.
So it was ME that I was saying was doing the trashing and it was my behavior that I was concerned with, not T2s.
Hopefully that clears things up a bit. T2 was very objective and professional and the only judgemental thing she said was the comment about it being very unprofessional of T1 to miss two appointments in one month.
TN,
I think you are probably correct about that smile. I think it warms our Ts hearts when they see us doing things to take care of ourselves and breaking old patterns of sticking in abusive or unhealthy relationships.
And you are correct, having a T with clear firm boundaries will be very helpful to me. T1s boundaries are all over the place and very inconsistent....and I end up getting hurt as a result of that.
Thanks all for checking in on me. It feels good to be cared about.
Thank you for your concern. I just want to clarify though, because I think I misled you and others to believe that T2 was trashing T1.
What I meant to say was that T2 pointed out T1s unprofessionalism, and then I went on to say some things that I immediately regretted. I said to T2 that I didn't want to trash T1, that it wasn't my intention to come running to T2 to put her in a weird triangulation by trash talking T1 to her. I had told myself I wouldn't use my session with T2 to complain about T1 endlessly and instead to focus on what I could gain from resuming my therapy with T2, yet there I was slipping into the mode of crying on T2s shoulder about T1.
So it was ME that I was saying was doing the trashing and it was my behavior that I was concerned with, not T2s.
Hopefully that clears things up a bit. T2 was very objective and professional and the only judgemental thing she said was the comment about it being very unprofessional of T1 to miss two appointments in one month.
TN,
I think you are probably correct about that smile. I think it warms our Ts hearts when they see us doing things to take care of ourselves and breaking old patterns of sticking in abusive or unhealthy relationships.
And you are correct, having a T with clear firm boundaries will be very helpful to me. T1s boundaries are all over the place and very inconsistent....and I end up getting hurt as a result of that.
Thanks all for checking in on me. It feels good to be cared about.
Hi there LG, nice to hear from you and to hear that you’re doing pretty well. Sounds like it’s a done deal your going back to T2? Or at least that you’re pretty sure you do want to terminate with T1. Must be a bit scary though with T2 away until end of November, that’s a long time to be sitting on this kind of decision.
Anyway I’m glad you’re ok and maybe you’ll find some time to post on forum again? No pressure, just that I’ve missed you around
LL
Anyway I’m glad you’re ok and maybe you’ll find some time to post on forum again? No pressure, just that I’ve missed you around
LL
Hmmph! I think it ought to be against the law for T's to take such long breaks! How can that be in the best interests of some of their clients? I have to agree that T1 has not been very consistent and actually rather flakey, which isn't good news either. But still, I'd like to give some of these T's a piece of my mind when they take off for such ridiculously long lengths of time.