(((((((((((((((((((((Dear Frosty)))))))))))))))))))

Oh no please no-one give up - this will sort out s

(((FROSTY))))

I didn't see the birthday thread and I'm wishing you a belated happy birthday. I am sorry you felt so hurt on your birthday.

I don't have any hard feelings towards anyone. I have moved past that difficult thread and harbor no resentment towards anyone. I post empathy when I can and ask for support as well. I try to be fair. I post on people's threads even if they don't post on mine. Not everyone replies on my threads but I'm not leaving because some people don't post on my threads. I like the people here and I'm happy to get the support I get and give support when I can.

I've had a family crisis going on since Sunday starting with my brother and then moving onto my sister. The long and the short of it is that my brother has done some bad and cruel things over the years, is an alcoholic, and now is dying of melanoma. He was always my mother's favorite and she continues to shelter him to this day.

My sister on the other hand, might be a little annoying, but she's basically a good person married to an abusive husband. She talks too much. She talks about the past too much. She nags. She left the ice cream out overnight and it melted. Yeah, she's a little annoying. But I found out this week, she was sleeping in her car because everyone finds her a little annoying.

And as we all sit here trying to heal, it made me realize how fragile each and every one of us is. And how much we all need connection, not disconnection. We need to care for each other. We need to support each other when we can, in the way that we can, in a way that feels comfortable to each and everyone of us.

If someone is harboring resentment towards me, I would like them to PM me so that it can be worked out. I have no hard feelings towards anyone and so if there is resentment, I am unaware of it and I'm not deliberately ignoring anyone on this thread.

xoxoxo

Love,

Liese

(((frosty))))

I did see your thread and was glad to respond to wish you a happy birthday. I am sorry that it has caused you so much disress, Birthdays are difficult things and I can understand you feeling sensitive at what seemed to be a small response from members.

I have to say though that I feel very guilty of not always responding to theads. I am struggling to juggle work comittments/home life/forum activities and quite often just have seemingly no time to reply as I really would have liked to. So I can see why people might not have posted on the day ....like Lampers, I tend to save them up for when I have more time, and for me that's usually the weekend.

Please try not to take it personally Frosters. I am certain you are as loved and thought about as everybody else



starfishy

(((((ECHO)))))

I have felt like that often in the past, wanting to leave because I didn't feel like anyone like me or I didn't feel like I fit in. But honestly, it was you who kept me here at times because you came looking for me when I disappeared. You are special. You are looking out for people. No one ever PM's me so I don't know who it is that is feeling left out and not responded to. But to whoever it is, if I haven't responded to you and you are hurt about it, I am genuinely sorry. I have felt like that too and I know how much it hurts. Please reach out to me via PM if you so desire.

xoxo

Liese

I just posted this on the birthday thread. I hope that things can get resolved and everyone will feel welcome and wanted here on the forums. ((((HUGS to everyone))))

I hope that it all gets worked out and that we can all provide one another with compassion and support.)I think it takes courage to post about how your feeling, and it's definitely a wake up call for all of us to realize that each and every post has significant meaning for the person who shares. I'll admit, too, that I am guilty of not posting on certain things because I either don't have experience with the topic and don't want to sound dumb, BUT I know that even posting something like "hey, I hear what you are saying and I am sorry you are going through this" is better than posting nothing at all.

Makes me sad that feelings were hurt, and as the peacemaker in previous situations of my life--I just want everything to be better.

Love to all of you,

Brokes

I wanted to pop in and say a few things about this thread but do not want it to be seen as trying to shut down the discussion.

Frosty, I am glad that you took responsibility for your own feelings and spoke up about it here. Expressing ourselves and being heard and understood is important for all of our feelings, including the "negative" ones. I am sorry that you felt hurt by the lack of responses, or probably to put it more exactly, so many people reading but not responding. The feeling of hanging out there and being exposed while waiting to see if anyone responds can trigger difficult emotions in all of us, especially if we are prone to questioning our own worth. I know it happens for me (and that's with a long history of receiving a lot of support and consistent responses). So how you are feeling sounds familiar and I am sorry these feelings were stirred up.

Echo,
I understand your frustration as I know that you have worked almost to the point of burnout, on top of dealing with your own stuff, to help make people welcome and cared for here.

I think this is really about boundaries. This is a peer support forum which means it is in its essence a volunteer effort. We come and ask for support but have no right to demand it of other people, since their time and energy is theirs and it is their right to decide how to use it. That doesn't mean we cannot express our hurt at a lack of support as Frosty has done, but we need to be clear that people still have the right to respond or not respond.

This is also a boundary issue in that we who struggle with boundaries tend to see other people's boundaries as saying something about us when actually they really only say something about the person setting them. People who post here have a myriad of responsibilities (spouses, children, school, jobs, family, friends etc ad infinitum) as well as the fact that many of us are struggling with our own wounding so that the energy to focus and respond to other people is often the result of a complex set of variables. Variables that have everything to do with who the poster is and close to nothing to do with the person waiting for a response.

Personally, I know there was a time where I actually tried to respond to every thread but those days are long past. For one thing, it was not helping my productivity at work. it's not just that there are more forums, it's that there are more active members and therefore more people to respond to. I very much agreed with what BB said, if I get too tied up with answering everyone than it would paralyze me into never posting. I answer posts now based on availability of time, and whether I feel like I have anything material to add to the discussion. This means I do not respond consistently or even to everyone. My choices are based on my needs and resources not on how I feel about or value people asking for support. (Full disclosure: I do tend to feel more motivated if its someone I have known for a long time and feel close to). I truly believe that everyone who posts is a valuable worthwhile person who deserves support but I also recognize that I am not humanly capable of meeting everyone's needs.

(BB, I do not believe that you have done anything wrong, you have been a long time member of the community and have consistently over a long time period supported other people. It is ok to be in a place where you need support more than you are able to give it. )

We are looking for this forum to be a perfectly safe place and it isn't. Not for lack of striving towards that goal, which is a worthy goal, but because the membership is made up of human beings, who are going to occassionally fail us. Each of us who come looking for support need to be aware that we can reach out and ask for support, which is a very healthy thing to do, but ultimately our safety and well being are in our own hands. There is a saying that life is 5% circumstances and 95% attitude. Instead of being upset over how few people respond, I think we need to cultivate a sense of gratitude for those people who take the time to do so. And if you are angry with someone because you perceive them as consistently taking but not giving back, then stop responding to them. That is YOUR choice and one that should be made freely or not at all. Or even better, PM them and discuss it directly.

Again, Frosty I am glad that you have spoken up about your feelings, it's good this is being discussed as I think most of us struggle with these feelings from time to time. But what I hate about these threads is the vagueness of them. So many innocent people, such as LL or Liese, or BB, or Echo, immediately jump to the conclusion they've done something wrong, while the person or persons this is actually directed towards may be completely oblivious. I'm not sure what the solution is since if this has been festering for a while as Echo indicated, then it's healthy to talk about it. But I would urge everyone to try and be clear sighted about themselves and just not assume that they are being talked about.

(Another aside: If anyone is feeling hurt or angry with me on this front, I want to hear about it, either on OF or PM, whichever is more comfortable. I am on vacation right now and will be actually traveling tomorrow so I may be unable to respond until the weekend.)

So it's good to talk about this, but we each should try to be careful to own what is ours and that which we cannot control. I think this community does a good job of supporting each other and working to help each other out and it would be a shame to destroy all the good done here by focusing on the negative, HOWEVER, it's not good to just bury the negative and act like everything's ok when it isn't, I'm sure most of us have had more than enough of that for one lifetime.

So by all means let's continue the discussion, but try to be as specific as possible and speak for yourself and your feelings.

AG

Frosty,

belated as it is. I did not see your thread. I've barely been on the OF for quite a while now. Here and there I've posted, but I haven't gone through each forum looking at all of the threads in a long time. Therefore, I miss things. I almost never go to chit chat or post on the "say anything" threads or read them so I probably miss a lot.

For me it isn't personal at all. Some posts move me to respond because I can relate or feel I have something useful to add. Some posts I can't find the words and don't want to make things worse for someone already in pain and some I just plain don't read. I agree that it is about boundaries. Right now, the level that I'm reading and posting (mostly in PM's) is what I am okay with right now. It isn't about anyone else, it is about me and taking care of myself. That might be selfish, but there are only so many hours in the day and I have to delegate them accordingly.

I'm sorry that feelings have been hurt here. I know the vibe that you are speaking of Echo and it has been going on for a few months. There has also been a huge influx of new members. That is great! I think the dynamics have changed a bit and it might take some getting used to. Clearly I've missed some big things that have gone on, but that is due to my lack of reading as I stated above.

Anyway, this is probably not at all helpful but sometimes (I think most of the time) it's not personal with the majority of people.

ETA: I x-posted with you AG.

I'm scared to even participate in this thread, because it seems if I participate where there is conflict, I make things worse.

I constantly feel like I have broken this forum somehow. I'm hoping if anyone has an issue with me, they'll say. I waver between really wanting to post and being really scared that I just drive people nuts. I think I've been pretty honest about that, though. I own it as my own stuff. While I do have rational reasons for believing people get frustrated with me, there is no reason for me to project single instances into a pervasive pattern that includes every regular forum member or even those same peoples' feelings about every single issue I post on. I think, intellectually, I can understand that it is probably isolated.

I really try to keep up with the birthdays and welcomes, but sometimes, I don't notice the chit-chat forum for whatever reason. And, if it has been a long while since a thread has been posted on, I feel weird saying, for example, congrats or happy birthday several days later.

I really feel awful lately that I am not giving as much support as I truly want to. I read threads, start to reply and then feel like, "Nothing I have to say is helpful. It's stupid and useless," and close down the window. I worry that it looks like I'm replying just for the sake of it and I don't ever want to be perceived as insincere or unearnest, but sometimes I can't find the words to capture the feelings that are in there for you guys. I have genuine care for what you all are going through, but feel rather stupid lately in terms of being useful. And I wonder if there are only so many times I can post, "Yeah, what _____ said is really good!" or "I don't have anything useful to say, but lots of ((((hugs))))" without seeming like a complete tool, who just has a compulsion to reply to every single thread. So, between that and my own stuff going on, I haven't been posting as much and I'm really sorry.

I project rejection pretty much constantly in life, so I'm pretty used to cognitively dismissing those feelings, so while I may feel the "vibe" that others have sensed here, I am so accustomed to feeling that way that I assume it's all in my head. Like, I have noticed in that certain people who reply on many other peoples' threads don't tend to reply on mine. However, I thought that about one particular person very early on in my time here and that person has ended up being very consistently and genuinely supportive of me for several months now. So, even though I feel like that about other people currently, I kind of dismiss it as unlikely. The times I have interacted with these people in their own threads or in PM, they have been nice and responsive, so it would require me to believe them to be insincere, which is yucky, so I guess I just choose to believe the best in people, despite any vibes I get. I don't know if that's a good thing (T has called me "generous" when I do this) or a bad thing (I will trust people who don't deserve it). In general, though, you can't know the depths of someone's heart, so while this very scary, real-feeling rejection can paralyze me, I try not to consciously dwell on those scenarios too much and drive myself batty worrying about how loathsome I am. I have enough self-loathing all by myself without needing to mentally carry someone else's loathing of me. Perhaps, because I carry so much of my own, it is always ending up projected onto others in this way.

I think I have talked in circles enough here. I just hope that you all know that I care and if anyone ever feels as if I am avoiding you or your posts, please PM me and let me know, so I can set your minds at ease. There are some threads or sections I haven't even been able to open lately, due to triggering, so it doesn't have anything to do with who the poster is. Also, if anyone ever wants my input on a particular topic, please PM me with a link to the thread in question. My life has gotten really hectic lately, but I am more than happy to give input if someone thinks I might have something valuable to say and haven't managed to stumble across their thread.

Anyway, I know this isn't supposed to be about anyone in particular, but of course, as always, I feel as if I have a hand in the environment here, especially as someone who has been in the habit of posting so much in general and recently withdrawn from such an active role...


to you all!

-Yaku

Happy Belated Birthday Frosty.

I too didn't see a birthday thread as I never look at the main boards - I only ever go to the Find - Since last visit option and i troll through that and post to my capability on the day.

I am half a world a way and find the timing isn't always in my favour either. If I have checked in a couple of times during 24 hours - sometimes there are no new posts as you are all asleep!

I also have to do this in secret as I have to sneak away to post and hide the screen when people snoop. This means that those quick 2 second Happy Birthday's or (((Hugs))) or one liners - are still difficult at times to do.

Maybe I haven't been here long enough - but I haven't noticed an undercurrent. Sure at times I have found that my posts go unanswered - and that could be to timing or people are busy or no-one has support to give on that topic at that time - but mostly I feel very supported and therefore extremely grateful.

I do love it when I receive the occasional PM - it always bring me closer to that person.

I haven't got enough experience to weigh into the main discussion of this thread, but wanted to post my experiences as a newby.


((Liese)) - wow about your sister sleeping in her car and I am sorry to hear about your brother

SD

I have often wondered if I should still be here - not because anybody has ever been anything but supportive and kind, but because I am so aware of the little I can contribute through time pressures. My short replies, although meant from the heart, sometimes look inadequate to me compared to much lengthlier replies.

So like others I tend to reply to posts that I can relate to as a priority, other threads I leave to those with an experience of that particular issue, for fear of making matters worse if I don't really appreciate the situation. At the end of the day we are not therapists (that we know of ), nor are we responsible for sorting every poblem. We also are different characters and have different backgrounds and issues that all need embracing. There will be some wonderful people who can find the time to diligently respond to most people and go out of their way to care for them, and I am truly in awe of them.

I hope we can just all come together as different people with a common interest and do what we do best in our own individual way - care.

starfishy

I think we can view one another as a WHOLE group of support. When one can't be there because they are struggling to take care of themselves, we can remember that as a collective whole we are all there for one another. Maybe we don't understand what the other person is dealing with, or we've never experienced it ourselves but we can understand that a friend is in pain. Each person on here is special. I know the pain that brought me here, and to think that anyone feels alone or even more alone after coming here really breaks my heart.

This represents how I feel towards all of you.

(I'll Be)
When darkness falls upon your heart and soul
I`ll be the light that shines for you
When you forget how beautiful you are
I`ll be there to remind you
When you can`t find your way
I`ll find my way to you
When troubles come around
I will come to you

I`ll be your shoulder
When you need someone to lean on
Be your shelter
when you need someone to see you through
I`ll be there to carry you
I`ll be there
I`ll be the rock that will be strong for you
The one that will hold on to you
When you feel that rain falling down
When there`s no body else around
I`ll be

And when you`re there with no one there to hold
I`ll be the arms that reach for you
And when you feel your faith is running low
I`ll be there to believe in you
When all you find are lies
I`ll be the truth you need
When you need someone to run to
You can run to me

You've all been these things and many more to me, and I hope that I can give just an ounce of that back to each and every one of you.

((HUGS))

OH RATS!!!! BEEBS AND EVERYONE s and please stop doubting yourselves with the inward looking!!! In situations such as these "IF" there is a culprit (for want of a better term) that person would actually know it - so if you're looking at or for 'possible scenarios' forget it!!! More s

Also, I really loved your personal words and the poem Broken (NOT)! and 'though I'm not around much, I still do feel part of this family and felt heartwarmed - thank you

Starfish - don't you go anywhere lady - you totally belong and Monte, it's really lovely to have you back

Healing and caring s to you all.

I'm sending out big hugs to everyone, including Frosty and Beebs and I'm not mentioning any other names because everyone is included:



I know everyone is angry, hurt and confused. But the thing is, you have to know who you are. Some people come here for light chit chat and that is fine. Some people come here to discuss the more serious issues and that is fine. If you know who you are and you accept that, well, then everything should fall in line behind it.

I myself tend to be a little more serious and always was. I never *got* the light chit chat, the ease with which some people seem to banter. And one of my favorite quotes, in terms of accepting who I am, comes from Joseph P. Kennedy. It's somewhat paraphrased so forgive me if I'm not quoting it correctly:

He told he son, Teddy Kennedy, "Son, you can have a serious life or a non-serious life. Don't worry, if you have a non-serious life, I'll still love you. I just won't have much time for you."

That gave me permission and I guess I needed it to be the serious person that I am. Sure, people who love to joke aren't going to get me and I'm not going to get them. But it's okay because I'm happiest when I'm just me and I find like-minded people to hang out with.

As, Mufasa said to Simba, "Know who you are" .... that's all it comes down to. There is no right. There is no wrong. It just is. We just are.

xoxoxoxo

Liese

Could everyone please take a deep breath and step back for a little while? When we are triggered, hurt and angry, we can be so busy protecting ourselves that its difficult to listen to others' very well.

Frosty, you are palpably frustrated about not being heard. If I understand you correctly (and if I don't, I apologize) you wanted to be able to talk about your hurt and the feelings of not being valued or cared for here. But instead of you receiving support and understanding, it felt like the discussion became about everyone else's feelings. It's certainly understandable that you would be frustrated about that.

I want to ask you, what response were you looking for? What do you think would have helped to hear?

I have other comments I think would help, but I think it's important you feel heard first.

AG

I am truly sorry if my response was not what was needed at the time. My attempt was to relay similar feelings I have experienced in my time here (thinking others, specific or in general, don't care or think badly of me) to show that I understood how you felt. And also, how I respond to those internal stirrings when I am feeling that way, in case it was helpful. For me, I find being related to something that really validates my feelings, because if other people feel similarly, I feel like it's OK for it to make sense that I feel the same way...you know? Anyway, my intention was never to make you feel like it wasn't about you. Sometimes I tend to write these sort of things at a distance, because I over-intellectualize them or I wonder whether or not they resonate or fit with the intended recipient. Anyway, a long explanation here, but that doesn't excuse me not understanding and offering what you needed when I participated. My only excuse is that I'm human, therefore imperfect, not remotely likely to get it right all the time. However, I'm trying to be better at admitting and apologizing when I get it wrong, like now. Obviously, very few people here would ever intentionally hurt someone's feelings, but that doesn't mean someone won't ever be hurt. It has happened, is happening now and will happen in the future and the best I can do is to be sorry that what was received did not match the support I intended. I hope that helps. If not, feel free to let me know and I can delete if I am making things worse.

Edited to add more explicitly: I do hear your frustration and hurt feelings and I'm very sorry you were hurt by the lack of response on the birthday thread and continue to be hurt by the content of responses here. It makes me sad that you're hurting.

Frosty I am really sorry that you feel overlooked and that you are hurting. I would be lying if I said I had never felt hurt by seeing far less response on my threads than others around it and taken that personally and thought it was to do with me. I have my own insecurities to do with this and many other things in my life which I am trying to work on. I do think it is brave of you to express your hurt and I am sorry that you aren't getting the response that you hoped for.

There are alot of people feeling hurt at the moment and I really wish there was a way we could all work together to resolve this. I know I am not an active member here and probably don't have much say in the community but I am feeling deeply saddened as more and more people are leaving

Butterfly

Dear (((x))),

Do you really have to go? Is there no way that this could get sorted out here without you leaving? So many people will be so very sad if you do



starryfish

(((((FROSTY)))))

I'm sorry I got it wrong and didn't hear you. You are important to us.

((((X))))

Please don't go. You are important to us too.