Hi Monte,
I have never responded before to your posts...I hope you don't mind...I just came on here recently. I think you are very brave. All of those feelings competing is very difficult. Keep battling through...I think your adult knows best. Be good and patient to your little one. Ogre is trying to mess it all up. Take care.

Hopeful

Hey Monte,

Nice to meet you - seen you about but I don't thik we've ever 'met'.

This is a huge post so felt compelled to reply.

You are so so brave. I hope you know that. Your ogre has such a familiar feel to me - I think a lot of us have something mean like that. Is so sad we do but I think they came about to protect us but now it's no longer right.

Anyway, out of all this, I just wanted to say how much I can empathise with the pain that comes when you finally are able to let someone in close, for the first time a safe person is doing the right things by you. But it comes with a whole world of pain. It's bitter sweet for sure. But also vitally important to your healing, in my opinion. So am sure it's not feeling great at the moment (er understatement?!) but from an outsiders perspective it reads like an amazing journey and I feel privilidged you shared it.

And, no, it's not creepy and too intimiate. Definitely not. It's perfect and what you need and you are a very special person to have come this far. Be proud.

Hugs xxxx

Hi Monte,

Thank you for the lovely update. I have been struggling with something similar in my relationship with my T and that is the lack of humanness that the physical boundaries call forth for me. I have also felt very ashamed for wanting to be close physically but have recently accepted it as part of who I am. I can't see myself opening up unless there is some kind of touch involved. Something has to be different than it is now. Since my hand-holding incident, I've been feeling a little braver about broaching it with T but of course, still haven't. I also struggle with how I will feel if he says yes, how awkward it might be. And then, of course, there will be the awkwardness of a no, as well.

When I walked into the session right after the hand-holding one, T himself looked a little awkward. He started by commenting on STRM's YouTude video and then I just launched into how nice the whole thing made me feel. I was worried that it was a mistake. He told me that he felt comfortable doing it and that he wanted to do it and it felt like the right thing at the right time.

Have you mentioned that your T doesn't typically use touch at all with anyone? Is this something you have discussed with him?

I ask because my T did announce months and months ago a no-hug, no-handing holding policy. I'm wondering if it's something he is considering on changing because he is aware of the power of touch and the neuroscience behind it all.

So, I'm wondering if your T is changing the way he works because he sees it works for you? Not sure if you've had this conversation with him so I don't know if you know the answer.

xoxo

Liese

((Monte))

I am so glad to read about your relationship with your T. It has really changed and sounds so powerful and amazing. I've missed hearing from you and I hope you can leave this up because I hadn't seen any of your other responses.

I also am interested in hearing about the change in how your T is working with you. Since the summer I've started shaking my T's hand at the end of sessions and one day I brought in some photos and he sat beside me on the couch near but not touching and it meant a lot to me. Yesterday we played a game together which meant we were sitting a little closer but still opposite each other. All those things help me feel less like a disgusting specimen.

Amazing work Monte - simply amazing. You have been able to achieve so much.

It has reminded me how powerful it is to sit beside someone to talk about emotional or difficult things. Front on, eye contact discussions can be too confronting. I find that having my T looking at me waiting for an answer is enough to make me dissociate. I wish all T's could have the insight that your T did.

Monte, as you may know, I was THRILLED to read your post. I hope you do not take it down as it is full of amazing progress on the part of both you and your T. Do NOT doubt for a minute that he is learning and growing with your help. You are helping him to become a better T as you heal with him. This is just something that is a lovely by-product of such a wonderfully intimate and honest relationship. It's so inspiring and heartwarming to read about!

I need to go back and re-read it and think about how you have managed to come so far. Most of all I love reading about how you have moved physically closer to him and how that is handled in so many different ways. Your T is a gem to allow what you need, even if it's not his usual practice. I think it's the really good, confident, expeienced T's that can tailor their approach to what the client needs most. I can see my T doing that to some extent although he does not know ALL that I need because I have not found the way to tell him yet... but I will. What I have asked for has been given to me kindly.

I love the idea of your book and how it enables you to communicate with your T. Your ogre is my virulent inner critic who is always hounding me and reminding me of how worthless I am. What resonated with me is the inability to say certain words out loud to my T or even certain phrases. When he uses them I cringe inside and hope he does not notice. They are so triggering that it causes me to then dissociate and move away from him. I have also told him I don't know the names for how I'm feeling aside from happy, sad, angry, tired. I need him to help me figure this out. And like you, that closeness scares me because that is when he will leave me. Or at least the inner kid believes this and is terrified if she shows up that he will flee.

I can see that your T is expressing a calm, consistent steadiness in reminding you and reassuring you of why you are there and what you are working on. I like that. But most of all it's the sitting close, touching your arm or holding your hands in prayer that is so amazing and something I yearn for as well. It's almost like there is someone screaming inside of me (probably that noisy kid) for him to get closer to me. Sometimes he does when I'm extremely upset ... he will wheel his chair closer to me and lean forward and that causes this shift inside of me that I cannot describe.

Also, when I wrote my T that letter in my non-dominant hand, I had the same experience in that it seemed that I was allowed to say/write things I would not normally be able to. And I relate to struggling with feeling so young and wanting things that seem childish when I am very far from being a child LOL. And I try to not pay attention to that because it does not seem to affect my T that way. I do watch him closely though.

Lastly.... I LOVED that your T was able to pick you out of the picture and more so that he CARED and WORRIED that he could pick the right little girl. What a charming story. I hope you are able to hold onto all that wonderful care and affection that your T freely gives to you. It's truly a gift.

I just want to acknowledge all the very hard work you have put into this relationship and this therapy. While you are making wonderful progress and your T is a gem, that does not take away from the pain and agony that comes from a lot of this work. I just wanted to note that too.

Look forward to hearing more from you.
Hugs
TN

Monte - Please do not take it down. It was like reading about my own therapy, except from the outside, so I am able to have compassion. I actually started crying, just a few tears, for both of us. Crying for me is nearly impossible to do, so crying over an experience that is like mine is as close as I can get to grieving right now and that is really helpful.

quote:

So all that probably sounds good and I suppose it is, but, that does not mean I am enjoying this. I am not...it is excruciating. Being close is enabling me, slowly, to access a whole load of pain. This precious, much longed-for connection is simultaneously a source of comfort and a gateway to pain. A hug or holding of hands is special - even via delayed response - but it is fleeting and no matter what, I cannot experience it as a little kid experiences it

I can really relate to this and all you said about the contact. I am so amazed by both you and TN being able to write him a non-dominant hand letter. I shut down as soon as I pick up a crayon or pen and the kids themselves are always crying about how it will be bad or wrong or get them in trouble. You guys are so brave!!!

Hi Monte,
It really is a gift to other people to be able to hear about your amazing experience.

Being close is enabling me, slowly, to access a whole load of pain. This precious, much longed-for connection is simultaneously a source of comfort and a gateway to pain.

I have only recently started to sense this truth myself(it is hard), so I appreciate knowing that other people feel the same way. It helps when other people find the right words to explain it for me, too.

I hope you don't take it down, but I understand if you do.

Quell

PS
Not to kill the mood, but can someone tell me how to do that quote thing? Is it automatic, or does everyone just format people's quotes the same way or what?
Thanks.

quote:

can someone tell me how to do that quote thing?

I usually just highlight what I want to quote and then click the reply button, but you could also manually type in the HTML tags too. I think if you click the little quote icon at the bottom, it will quote the whole post in question.

Monte,

What you wrote here inspired me to continue on my therapy journey with or without my current T. I really enjoyed reading how your T responds to you and it gives me hope that someday I will find that and when I do, I know that I will be able to heal. I've been having a hard time with my things and stepping outside of myself and looking at other posts has helped me realize that someday I'll figure this whole thing out...and I will be okay on my own.

Love and Hugs to you,

Hollywood

Monte... I loved reading this but I'm rushed for time right now and can't give it the response it deserves. Thank you for sharing. I promise to come back when I can. I do hope you go to that last session before break. I think it will be a turning point for you to face this and move through it. You have been doing so well.

TTYL
TN

quote:

Originally posted by monte:
He thanked me and said he really understood now what I go though, probably better than ever. He said the battle remains to allow Little Me to sit on the chair, unobstructed, and express in his presence what she needs to express. I shrugged and said I don’t know how I’ll ever manage that. He said there is always a solution, there is a key we need to find and I probably have it myself but don’t know where I keep it...so we must keep searching together. He said it might also be God-shaped, which I agree with.

Monte, this was so touching. I love that he said there is always a solution, there is a key. I also love that he said that you and he must keep searching together. I'm glad you decided to stay with him even though you and he don't have the same emotional makeup. Because as you said, you are learning to do something for yourself that someone who might be able to drag it out of you might be able to do faster. But if you don't always interact with those types of people, you might revert back to your status quo. You would never learn how to feel comfortable with and/or express needs to someone unless they were more emotionally attuned? Is that a good way to describe it?

I've made drawings for my T and he said it helps him to understand me better also.

Bringing the needs out to see the light of day when the person you are working with doesn't always seem to get what it is you are asking for and so may not always respond the right way, can feel very painful. It can feel like they are doing it intentionally, to hurt us. But as you've learned, it's just part and parcel of who your T is and he's not doing it intentionally to hurt you.

Do you think will be able to go to your session? It sounds like it will be hard, especially when you feel like you are already disconnecting. But maybe that's okay. It's where you are at right now. And maybe it would be good for you to experience what it feels like to face an ending, even if you don't feel everything you think you should feel, or even it it doesn't feel like the perfect ending. And it sounds like you are really looking forward to the work you and T are doing together in February.

xoxo

Love,

Liese

Monte,

quote:

Well, when I went in the other day, he got a print-out of the email and I had the pictures with me (in my book). He pulled his chair right round next to mine and sat close and he took the book and looked at the pictures as I read the explanation.

I love that he sat close to you and you did this together. Good idea about the email. Your drawn work sounds amazing. I've always wished to express myself with art, but can't. I can 'copy' other's art, but can't be original.

quote:

I saw him this week and although it was ‘nice’ it was also ‘blah’ as I think have already shut down inwardly, in anticipation of long break.

A few weeks ago when I asked T if she was going on break over the holidays, I had started to shut down right away....and my break will only be 2 weeks. I understand the process you need to go into. I'm hoping you can go to your *last* session, though, because I think it could have great meaning for you. Consider it; I know you already are, but you are also considering 'not' going.

I'll be thinking about you. Let us know what you decide.

((((MONTE)))))

Your plan sounds like a good one. You know what you need and you know what you need to do to get it.

Funny what you say about existing on two levels. Everyone always told me that I was really laid back and that nothing bothered me. Meanwhile I was a ball of anxiety inside. When I went for the psych consult, the P prescribed wellbutrin and told me to look out for the side effects, including jitteryness. I commented to him, "well, then at least my exterior will match my interior. Everyone says I'm laid back but I don't feel that way inside." He looked at me and said, "you, laid back? You're a ball of fire."

Aside from him, though, most people tell me I am laid back. I let the kids roller-blade all over the house, that kind of stuff I guess.

I was wondering if you feel attuned with him because being sort of low-key was how you learned to be to survive. Hiding your feelings, hiding that volatile and emotional side something you learned to do. So T feels comfortable because you are comfortable being that way, well, except for all the pain that wants to come out.

I'm wondering then if the uncomfortable feelings come from transference. Like, my T would just stare at me sometimes, which I found incredibly intimidating and it shut me down immediately. He told me recently that is his face of neutrality. Well, it was killing me because it reminded me all too much of my Dad, who when he had something bad to say about me, just wouldn't say it, just wouldn't turn his back or even face me. So the silence always meant something bad. Yes, Liese, you are a loser and you won't get into that school and you can't be x, y or z. No, Liese, there is nothing special about you. And, so T's silence to me meant the same kind of stuff was going on in him. And completely and totally freaked me out.

And I am wondering if something similar to this might be where you are having the trouble. It's the ambiguous situations in life that shut us down. When we don't know what someone is thinking or we don't know why something happened. If we fill in the blanks with negative thoughts about ourselves, we're going to shut ourselves down.

Let us know how it all turns out for you.

xoxo

Love,

Liese

P.S. It's interesting that T says he is emotion-deaf. I wonder if you grew up in an emotion-deaf environment?

Monte, I am sad for you that you are not going to the last appointment but you know best what works for you in this relationship. I truly believe that you have had enough comings and goings with your T that you HAVE reached a point where you are secure in him being there and being happy to see you again when you return. You have done it before and this is an established groove in your brain. I am glad that you have this security with your T because it's so important. So you will miss him which my T always reminds me is okay. We miss those we love and care about. But you are not in distress or agony because the attachment is secure and solid now. This is also good.

I agree with the emotional stillness you exhibit likely coming from the way you learned to survive the environment you grew up in. I learned to be very quiet and invisible so as not to attract attention which was usually negative. It not only kept me from getting in trouble but I was also praised by others and my family for being SO good and SO quiet no one even remembered I was there.

Liese... you know if you look at a baby, stare at him with a blank expression on your face and do not respond to HIS expressions then he will show distress and after that begin to cry in fear and distress because you are not providing him with the non-verbals that he needs. From what you describe you know exactly how that feels. This is why it is so important to mirror/reflect with a child.

Monte, thanks for updating us on your progress with T and what will be happening over the next months. I'm glad he carries your card in his wallet. That must make you feel very close and connected to him.

Big hugs
TN

Monte - I am so glad you went to your session and were able to connect and cry with your T. Some of the things he says and does remind me so much of my own T. I am sorry you have such a long break on the tail of such gate-opening work, but I am glad your T has made himself available to you via email and cancellations, if it works out and is needed. I kind of melted a bit for you when you shared that he said, "Good girl." My T will sometimes encourage the young parts when I am able to let them through enough to reach out to him, whether it is a "that's good," or "I'm glad" statement, or just an "Mmmmm," of acknowledgement for their effort and trust. It means so much and I can only imagining how connecting it must have felt. Thank you so much for sharing. ((((Monte))))

(((Monte)))

How incredibly beautiful. This was such a major breakthrough and one you have worked so very hard for. And may I say both you and your amazing T were simply brilliant!

I know it was painful to have him do what he did, and refuse to talk unless you came in, but, as a really good T will, he knew when to push you. If a T never pushes then we don't step out of our comfort zone and grow, but it can be such a delicate thing to decide when to do it. Your T got it exactly right.

And you, my dear, displayed an incredible courage by stepping outside your comfort zone, and choosing to trust your T despite your anger at him and the terror involved. You should be so so proud of yourself.

That release that you are feeling is the healing that comes when we have an attuned caring other hear our grief and extend understanding and compassion. When we are together that way, it creates the opening into which love Himself flows (where there are two together in His name) and the healing is done. I do not understand but have stood in awe of it many times. I am so happy that you have been able to break through.

Take good care of yourself. I hope that the break flies by for you and that your sense of connection to your T remains strong. Thank you so much for sharing this with us.



AG

Monte,
I'm so glad you went to your last session. It sounds very healing and I can really hear how much your T cares for you and how strong your relationship with him is. I have had a difficult time with my T lately and it is inspirational to read about your session. Thank you for sharing it.

((((((MONTE))))))

That was really beautiful. You've given me hope that I might cry one day too and it might not be when I expect it.

Hope you can get back in to see him sooner rather than later.

xoxo

Liese

Wow, Monte. I can't tell you how much I enjoyed reading about your session...really beautiful. I'm kind of sapped of words, because there are just too many great things about your session. I also hope that may you can see T a little sooner...8 weeks is one heck of a break.

(((((Monte)))))

Monte,

That sounds like a really worthwhile and powerful session. Sounds too like a few walls came down that had been put up and fortified over a long period of time. I am really NOT the world's best at crying, have only managed it a few times in session over many years, but each time it has been very cathartic and the fear of doing so has lessened a tincy bit.

Your T sounds a good man Monte, he feels like a safe gentle pair of hands. I too was moved by him calling you 'good girl', it took me back to how my dad used to talk to me, in a caring and paternal way hat made me feel as if I was doing ok and that he was confident in me. That's how I read your T's words - gently encouragng, yet caring, allowing you to find out things for yourself yet with him close by.

I hope you can get through the long break now....perhaps a cancellation might just fall into place before you are due to start back

Thanak you for sharing with us,

starfishy

Monte, I don't know how I missed this thread! I've been so busy lately with the holidays that I have only been scanning quickly. Thank you for sharing that session with us. It was simply stunning and very emotionally powerful. I LOVE your T. He is amazing. And YOU dear girl, you went in and faced him when he said no to your proposal of not showing up and doing things via email. You show such strength and courage! I can imagine how you felt and that anger propelled you into the most amazing and healing session! I had to chuckle a bit because I would have done the same thing... when T makes me angry I don't run but go back to give him hell and it usually turns out really well.

I am so touched that your T carries that card you made him in his wallet. I would love for my T to do that but I know he won't. All his stuff from clients is on his bookshelves. But I think it shows how well connected you are to T and how he values the relationship and what you gave him. How fabulous that you now have something from him to carry with you.

About the crying... I'm also thinking that maybe you were feeling unconsciously safer to do that with a longer break looming. Or maybe you just felt you needed to have that connection to hold you during the break. Whatever the reason, this was a hugely important breakthrough and accomplishment for you. and I do think that things will be different now that you are feeling that healing that comes from sharing the tears with such a safe, attuned, caring other. I have felt it at times and it's pretty amazing stuff. You really should be proud of yourself and how far you have come this year.

About the way your T uses touch... I think it's perfect. It would be just what I would like from my T. The touch while crying, the ability to hold his hand for a moment here and there, the permission to ask for a hug when I needed it after a rough session. Your T is excellent in reading you and in somehow knowing what would be what you need at the moment. Great attunement between you.

I hope you get through the break and that you begin again where you left off. Perhaps you will change your mind and your T will fit you in sooner than 8 weeks... but for now, enjoy the view from the amazing mountain you have just climbed. You deserve to bask in the accomplishment and the love you received from your T.

Hugs
TN

Monte, such an amazing set of events. I too have some inner parts of me that prevent the little person from talking and it is that small person who needs to do all the talking. I am thinking of ways to feel safe for that to happen. I got a lot of ideas from you and felt less alone.

Your T was so in tune (except for interpreting those pictures...) with what you needed, even if you didn't realise that at the time. He certainly did seem stunned when you were crying.

I don't think my T would use touch as much and I wouldn't ask - I think that right there is a barrier to my little person coming out.

You say your T is not an attachment T - but he is certainly doing a lot of things that qualify as being wonderful techniques for therapy.

Thanks for posting, I got a lot out of it.

Monte... thank you for sharing your journey with us. I was so touched in reading about how not only the session evolved, but how your relationship with your T is deepening to the point where you were able to release all those tears...

Great work my friend, and here's hoping the time between is productive and passes quickly!

(((Monte)))

Monte,
So happy for you! What a great experience for you and your T.
Hopeful

This was so moving, thank you so much for sharing and congrats on this incredible breakthrough!

quote:

enjoy the view from the amazing mountain you have just climbed.

Great way of putting it, and ditto!

effed

Wow, Monte. I'm just reading this now too. What an amazing breakthrough. I love the way you and your T work together. And I admire you SO much for persevering. How deliciously ironic that your laughter opened up your tears. Somehow that seems to make sense, maybe because both laughter and tears make us vulnerable? Thank you for sharing this with us. You made my day.

Love,
SG

Monte,

Thank you for sharing!

Hello!! Just saw this! Wow, am I so overjoyed for you! This is amazing and shows what tremendous work you have done this past year with your T. You deserve a huge pat on the back, my dear! Way to go!

Hugs,
MTF

Thank you for your post about your last session. I loved reading it very much.

Quell

Thank you for sharing such a beatiful, powerful breakthrough with your lovely T with us, Monte. I can feel the peace it brought, and the release.

Love,xoxo, Christmas blessings,

BB