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((((LG))))
Sorry things have gotten so bad. Is she still in DisneyWorld? I don't know anything about involuntary hospitalizations. Did she say anything about going to the hospital? Would you be willing to go? Would it have to be involuntary?
Maybe she just wants you to see a T close to you and isn't even thinking about hospitalization. Can you clarify this with her?
liese
Sorry things have gotten so bad. Is she still in DisneyWorld? I don't know anything about involuntary hospitalizations. Did she say anything about going to the hospital? Would you be willing to go? Would it have to be involuntary?
Maybe she just wants you to see a T close to you and isn't even thinking about hospitalization. Can you clarify this with her?
liese
LG,
I wonder if she wants a T to 'see' you to evaluate appearance from the outside.
Anyway, I know that isn't what you were asking....
I do not know about the hospitalization.
Regardless of what your T thinks, do you think you need to go to a hospital? Do you want to talk to us here about it?
I wonder if she wants a T to 'see' you to evaluate appearance from the outside.
Anyway, I know that isn't what you were asking....
I do not know about the hospitalization.
Regardless of what your T thinks, do you think you need to go to a hospital? Do you want to talk to us here about it?
((((LG))))
I am not a professional but I want to share my experience with you. I wanted to be hospitalized last spring and I asked my T to please put me in the hospital. He refused. He said that I don't want to go there, that he worked there and he knows what it's like and I don't want to go there.
I was upset at the time but now I am stronger and I am glad he didn't do it.
So if you feel like your job is helping keep you together, then maybe that's a good enough reason NOT to go in the hospital.
Can you talk it out with her? What would be the benefits? It seems to me that not being able to go to work would be a HUGE loss for you that she may not be considering and that might actually detract from any possible benefits that she sees.
(((((LG)))))
Liese
I am not a professional but I want to share my experience with you. I wanted to be hospitalized last spring and I asked my T to please put me in the hospital. He refused. He said that I don't want to go there, that he worked there and he knows what it's like and I don't want to go there.
I was upset at the time but now I am stronger and I am glad he didn't do it.
So if you feel like your job is helping keep you together, then maybe that's a good enough reason NOT to go in the hospital.
Can you talk it out with her? What would be the benefits? It seems to me that not being able to go to work would be a HUGE loss for you that she may not be considering and that might actually detract from any possible benefits that she sees.
(((((LG)))))
Liese
(((LG))))
I agree too with what BG has said. I have no professional knowledge of eating disorders. And I don't have an eating disorder. So take what I say for what's it worth.
Just wanted to give you some sense of control, that this is something you can talk to your T about and perhaps come up with a plan together instead of feeling like you are just getting thrown in the hospital. That can't be a good feeling. As BG said, you need to do what you need to do to save your life.
Liese
I agree too with what BG has said. I have no professional knowledge of eating disorders. And I don't have an eating disorder. So take what I say for what's it worth.
Just wanted to give you some sense of control, that this is something you can talk to your T about and perhaps come up with a plan together instead of feeling like you are just getting thrown in the hospital. That can't be a good feeling. As BG said, you need to do what you need to do to save your life.
Liese
((((((LG)))))))
I'm sorry you have been down lately
I hope the depression lifts and you start feeling better soon.
My T, that I see in person, helped me get hospitalized in another state into a short term residential /partial program for PTSD. Getting into that kind of speciality type of intensive treatment, or like one for ED or other specific issues, is a little different than a T having someone involuntariliy hospitalized in a general psych hospital on a mental health hold for basic safety to self. But, I do believe your T could have a hold placed on you from out of state too.
When I went to intensive treatment out of state, the providers at the hospital that was 2,000 miles away from my home, relied heavily on my T's info to admit me to the program, but in the end, it was up to the program/hospital itself to admit me or not.
*If* a hospital based program is what you need, I think you could do an assessment or intake at the particular hospital without having to get a T that is in the same state as the hospital or you before doing so. I think that is very possible. Whether your T would think it is the best option, in her opinion, might be another story though.
I totally understand about not wanting to go inpatient - for many reasons. You and I also know that sometimes denial takes away our objectiveness about if we need it or not. Yet, I think you should really consider what is helping you. I think it is good that you are looking into and considering what your T thinks you should do, and also what you think fits for what you need and would help you the most.
Maybe there is a comprimise where you could keep working every day and not go into hospital inpatient, but also get more support, or do something in person... like maybe adding a support group or something...? It would depend on what specifically is concerning your T and what makes you consider it as a possibility... If she can see you on skype, then... hmmm... maybe she's just feeling like you need more than what she can do for you right now, but not that you are hiding anything...? I think you can be admitted to a hospital even though your primary T is out of state, but she might be uncomfortable about faciliating it herself and want someone there to help. Maybe she wants someone who will be able to actually come to the hospital while you are there. My T and I set up phone calls while I was out of state, and it helped, but when I was onc inpatient in state, she actually came to the hospital where I was, and it was really helpful to have her actually phsyically there. So maybe the whole thing about finding someone in person to see, is about having someone who can also go to the hospital too, and help advocate for you to get the right treatment in the hospital and be a real tangible support there too in a way she might not be able to do, especially if it got hard to do Skype sessions while you were inpatient or something. I dunno. Just thoughts.
Sorry you are having to deal with this and struggling.
many hugs,
~ jane
I'm sorry you have been down lately
I hope the depression lifts and you start feeling better soon. My T, that I see in person, helped me get hospitalized in another state into a short term residential /partial program for PTSD. Getting into that kind of speciality type of intensive treatment, or like one for ED or other specific issues, is a little different than a T having someone involuntariliy hospitalized in a general psych hospital on a mental health hold for basic safety to self. But, I do believe your T could have a hold placed on you from out of state too.
When I went to intensive treatment out of state, the providers at the hospital that was 2,000 miles away from my home, relied heavily on my T's info to admit me to the program, but in the end, it was up to the program/hospital itself to admit me or not.
*If* a hospital based program is what you need, I think you could do an assessment or intake at the particular hospital without having to get a T that is in the same state as the hospital or you before doing so. I think that is very possible. Whether your T would think it is the best option, in her opinion, might be another story though.
I totally understand about not wanting to go inpatient - for many reasons. You and I also know that sometimes denial takes away our objectiveness about if we need it or not. Yet, I think you should really consider what is helping you. I think it is good that you are looking into and considering what your T thinks you should do, and also what you think fits for what you need and would help you the most.
Maybe there is a comprimise where you could keep working every day and not go into hospital inpatient, but also get more support, or do something in person... like maybe adding a support group or something...? It would depend on what specifically is concerning your T and what makes you consider it as a possibility... If she can see you on skype, then... hmmm... maybe she's just feeling like you need more than what she can do for you right now, but not that you are hiding anything...? I think you can be admitted to a hospital even though your primary T is out of state, but she might be uncomfortable about faciliating it herself and want someone there to help. Maybe she wants someone who will be able to actually come to the hospital while you are there. My T and I set up phone calls while I was out of state, and it helped, but when I was onc inpatient in state, she actually came to the hospital where I was, and it was really helpful to have her actually phsyically there. So maybe the whole thing about finding someone in person to see, is about having someone who can also go to the hospital too, and help advocate for you to get the right treatment in the hospital and be a real tangible support there too in a way she might not be able to do, especially if it got hard to do Skype sessions while you were inpatient or something. I dunno. Just thoughts.
Sorry you are having to deal with this and struggling.
many hugs,
~ jane
She's not uncaring, LG. It's very apparent that she cares a great deal but that she can't care enough to save your life. Only you can do that by taking steps beyond your current situation.
Why are you refusing to see another therapist in your state?
Why are you refusing to see another therapist in your state?
((((LG))))
What a big mess. I went on Wellbutrin last May and it has helped a lot. Sometimes we just need a little pharmaceutical help. I was terrified of going to this new P but he is a really nice guy and as AG told me, her P has been really supportive. I wouldn't have believed it to be true but I do now. I really really like this P but he also came highly recommended from my T.
It might also be nice to have someone in your new town to talk to. It really doesn't sound like such a bad idea, being in a new town and all.
Liese
What a big mess. I went on Wellbutrin last May and it has helped a lot. Sometimes we just need a little pharmaceutical help. I was terrified of going to this new P but he is a really nice guy and as AG told me, her P has been really supportive. I wouldn't have believed it to be true but I do now. I really really like this P but he also came highly recommended from my T.
It might also be nice to have someone in your new town to talk to. It really doesn't sound like such a bad idea, being in a new town and all.
Liese
LG,
It might have kept you up at night. It has that reputation. But I slept too much so I liked getting less sleep. I do like xanax too. I've taken paxil, which was a bear to get off and lexapro, which made me excessively tired. But I have to tell you that I won't be going off it because I notice a huge difference in my functioning.
It might have kept you up at night. It has that reputation. But I slept too much so I liked getting less sleep. I do like xanax too. I've taken paxil, which was a bear to get off and lexapro, which made me excessively tired. But I have to tell you that I won't be going off it because I notice a huge difference in my functioning.
(((LG)))
I am sorry you are feeling more depressed and I am even more sorry that your T is struggling to deal with you therapeutically. I know how close you are to your T and it is clear that she cares about you very much. Since she has been willing to work with you even though she wasn't licensed in your state so far I'm wondering what has changed and if it has to do with you. It is frustrating that she let her care for you interfere with making an appropriate decision about treating you in a state she wasn't licensed in originally. By appropriate decision I mean one that she was comfortable with and was willing to stick with.
I wish there was some way I could help. thinking of you,
I am sorry you are feeling more depressed and I am even more sorry that your T is struggling to deal with you therapeutically. I know how close you are to your T and it is clear that she cares about you very much. Since she has been willing to work with you even though she wasn't licensed in your state so far I'm wondering what has changed and if it has to do with you. It is frustrating that she let her care for you interfere with making an appropriate decision about treating you in a state she wasn't licensed in originally. By appropriate decision I mean one that she was comfortable with and was willing to stick with.
I wish there was some way I could help. thinking of you,
I'm sorry things have got so complicated LG. It is really hard to move home, aside from anything else. I hope you can find ways to let yourself have some care - the best care possible.((((LG))))
((((((lg))))))
It does sound like something is not working out well with your T. I think it is off for her to be so concerned about her license per say. There are so many online T's and I doubt all of them have licenses in all the states they pratice in. Plus, in some states, your T could just call herself a "life coach" and not need any license at all. I'm not sure I'd would ever support doing this... just saying... I think the stuff about the license isn't really at the heart of her concern and being so worked up and upset with you or about you. I would totally hear it that way if I heard my T talk about my mom suing her. From the outside, it seems more like she feels like she doesn't know what to do with how much she does care for you and her level of concern about you. She might be extra jumpy about it after losing another patient, and thus more worried than needed about you - but at the same time, you seem to be worried that a local T would have the same worry too and try to hospitalize you as well, right? But if you can keep you alive and safe, then a new T shouldn't push to hospitalize you either, so if that is the case, I'm not sure I understand why you are concerned a new local T would hospitalize you.
I do know a lot of Ts don't like having two Ts in the picture, but I do also know there are Ts who are really supportive of it, especially if the therapy types are very different, or if there are boundaries to define what T handles what things from the begining. When I was searching for T, I found group therapists who actually required two T's. But at the same time, I know it was really hard between your Ts when you had two Ts before, so I can understand why this is really hard to navigate - but there are options. Has your T talked about what would happen if you did find a new T and what would happen to the therapy with her if you did?
If you are safe and not in immient danger of dying without needing a hospital level of treatment, then a new T should be able to see that and help settle your T's fears.
In my state, there is a real shortage of inpatient beds, so frankly, where I live, you have to be pretty suicidal to be admitted. I dunno what it is like for your area though. If a local T did force you to be admitted, it would only happen if you were in really, really grave danger - and it doesn't sound like you are there. If you were, your T now could get someone else to admit you easily - but she isn't.
Getting other support could be the best chance you have to actually avoid either the ultimatium of going to the hospital or terminating with this T. She sounds like she feels like she can't help in the way she wants too. She cares enough to realize that she doesn't know what to do. I really hear a ton of care in her, not her just being concerned about liability.
Maybe it doesn't even have to be getting another individual T - a doc for meds might be a great idea... There are various kinds of other options to get more treatment without having to take time away from your job too.
At the same time, if you are in danger of losing your life, all your T has to do is call the police and let them know she's concerned. Heck, even I can call a welfare check on someone at any time. (I actually did do this once for a family member who was out of state and had an SU plan and started to act on it. It was terribly hard, but it's what I had to do. The police went out, talked with them, and took them to the hospital to be evaluated. I didn't admit them, but I did start the process for the police and hospital to make sure they were safe, and evaluate them, and in the end, they were admitted. If I can start that process, certainly your out of state T can.) So it sounds like your T is giving you time and space, and isn't thinking you are in immient danger - and a T that you see in person shuld see that too - and unless you are in immenent danger, they can't force you to be hospitalized. Your T can give it as an ultimatium to continue in therapy with your T, but not force you against your will.
I'm sorry she isn't being more steady and comforting for you right now - right in the middle of really needing it too. I think it can be really healing to share those really depressed thoughts - but yeah, impossibly hard if a T reacts too much, too strongly, and with more action than needed. It then becomes a reason to shut down and not share and feels even worse... ugh.... It does feel like she is in a bind if you are refusing to see someone in person because you are convinced they will admit you and you stick with her, just because you feel her location means she can't. I also wonder about how objective she is able to be with how worked up she is getting about it.
I'm sorry she is reacting so strongly to what you shared. I hope the funk lifts soon and things get on track. I do also hope that in some way you find a way for you to share that kind of stuff with her or someone.
I also really do think your T is acting out of deep care for you - not about you just being a liability. If you were just a liability, she wouldn't be so emotional and upset about it, and she would have terminated care with you already. If she didn't care deeply about you, I don't think she would be so mad. (does that make any sense at all?)
I do believe there are other options than the hospital or your T terminating with you - and I worry that if you reject seeking out those other options, you may be left with only those two options in the end... I dunno... but I'm just concerned about how worked up she is, and how much you are pushing her and other help away out of fear they will admit you. If you don't need to be admitted to keep you alive, then it is extremely unlikely they wil try to admit you, and even less likely they would succeed.
I'm so sorry your T has lost her objectivity in all of this at a time where you really need the safety and stability in a T.
jane
It does sound like something is not working out well with your T. I think it is off for her to be so concerned about her license per say. There are so many online T's and I doubt all of them have licenses in all the states they pratice in. Plus, in some states, your T could just call herself a "life coach" and not need any license at all. I'm not sure I'd would ever support doing this... just saying... I think the stuff about the license isn't really at the heart of her concern and being so worked up and upset with you or about you. I would totally hear it that way if I heard my T talk about my mom suing her. From the outside, it seems more like she feels like she doesn't know what to do with how much she does care for you and her level of concern about you. She might be extra jumpy about it after losing another patient, and thus more worried than needed about you - but at the same time, you seem to be worried that a local T would have the same worry too and try to hospitalize you as well, right? But if you can keep you alive and safe, then a new T shouldn't push to hospitalize you either, so if that is the case, I'm not sure I understand why you are concerned a new local T would hospitalize you.
I do know a lot of Ts don't like having two Ts in the picture, but I do also know there are Ts who are really supportive of it, especially if the therapy types are very different, or if there are boundaries to define what T handles what things from the begining. When I was searching for T, I found group therapists who actually required two T's. But at the same time, I know it was really hard between your Ts when you had two Ts before, so I can understand why this is really hard to navigate - but there are options. Has your T talked about what would happen if you did find a new T and what would happen to the therapy with her if you did?
If you are safe and not in immient danger of dying without needing a hospital level of treatment, then a new T should be able to see that and help settle your T's fears.
In my state, there is a real shortage of inpatient beds, so frankly, where I live, you have to be pretty suicidal to be admitted. I dunno what it is like for your area though. If a local T did force you to be admitted, it would only happen if you were in really, really grave danger - and it doesn't sound like you are there. If you were, your T now could get someone else to admit you easily - but she isn't.
Getting other support could be the best chance you have to actually avoid either the ultimatium of going to the hospital or terminating with this T. She sounds like she feels like she can't help in the way she wants too. She cares enough to realize that she doesn't know what to do. I really hear a ton of care in her, not her just being concerned about liability.
Maybe it doesn't even have to be getting another individual T - a doc for meds might be a great idea... There are various kinds of other options to get more treatment without having to take time away from your job too.
At the same time, if you are in danger of losing your life, all your T has to do is call the police and let them know she's concerned. Heck, even I can call a welfare check on someone at any time. (I actually did do this once for a family member who was out of state and had an SU plan and started to act on it. It was terribly hard, but it's what I had to do. The police went out, talked with them, and took them to the hospital to be evaluated. I didn't admit them, but I did start the process for the police and hospital to make sure they were safe, and evaluate them, and in the end, they were admitted. If I can start that process, certainly your out of state T can.) So it sounds like your T is giving you time and space, and isn't thinking you are in immient danger - and a T that you see in person shuld see that too - and unless you are in immenent danger, they can't force you to be hospitalized. Your T can give it as an ultimatium to continue in therapy with your T, but not force you against your will.
I'm sorry she isn't being more steady and comforting for you right now - right in the middle of really needing it too.
I think it can be really healing to share those really depressed thoughts - but yeah, impossibly hard if a T reacts too much, too strongly, and with more action than needed. It then becomes a reason to shut down and not share and feels even worse... ugh.... It does feel like she is in a bind if you are refusing to see someone in person because you are convinced they will admit you and you stick with her, just because you feel her location means she can't. I also wonder about how objective she is able to be with how worked up she is getting about it. I'm sorry she is reacting so strongly to what you shared. I hope the funk lifts soon and things get on track. I do also hope that in some way you find a way for you to share that kind of stuff with her or someone.
I also really do think your T is acting out of deep care for you - not about you just being a liability. If you were just a liability, she wouldn't be so emotional and upset about it, and she would have terminated care with you already. If she didn't care deeply about you, I don't think she would be so mad. (does that make any sense at all?)
I do believe there are other options than the hospital or your T terminating with you - and I worry that if you reject seeking out those other options, you may be left with only those two options in the end... I dunno... but I'm just concerned about how worked up she is, and how much you are pushing her and other help away out of fear they will admit you. If you don't need to be admitted to keep you alive, then it is extremely unlikely they wil try to admit you, and even less likely they would succeed.
I'm so sorry your T has lost her objectivity in all of this at a time where you really need the safety and stability in a T.
jane
LG:
I think YOU should be brave and let go of your current out of state T and develop a relationship with a new one locally.
Start fresh. A long distance stressed relationship doesn't sound like a good idea to continue.
LK
I think YOU should be brave and let go of your current out of state T and develop a relationship with a new one locally.
Start fresh. A long distance stressed relationship doesn't sound like a good idea to continue.
LK
LG,
I'm going to be painfully brutal with you. The therapist you don't want to give up is no longer your therapist. She has violated the therapeutic boundaries so many times I've lost count. Crying, screaming and begging you to do something to make her feel better is no way to conduct therapy. She has lost control of your therapy and herself. Not to even go near the ethical breach of her knowing she should not be treating you, which is a re-enactment of the collusion that can sometimes take place in abuse: you're the special one.
I think you cannot let go of her because she is holding out a promise of giving you what you didn't get as a child. The problem is that it's impossible which means no matter how much she loves you (and I believe she really does, I think she's lost the necessary detachment as a matter of fact) she simply can't do it. So at some point this is going to blow up horribly and you will be even more traumatized.
I also think you stay with her because she allows you to control therapy and you like it better that way. And the distance makes you feel safer. I think if you are really serious about your recovery, you need to find someone local who can hold clear boundaries and you need to try and understand why you can remain so unconcerned about yourself when someone on such intimate terms is sure your life is in danger.
Either her opinion is being colored by her lack of objectivity and losing a patient last year, or you are not seeing the situation clearly. Seeing someone local would clear this up either way.
I realize that I sound very harsh, but frankly, I am worried that your life is on the line, so it doesn't seem like a good time to mince words.
AG
I'm going to be painfully brutal with you. The therapist you don't want to give up is no longer your therapist. She has violated the therapeutic boundaries so many times I've lost count. Crying, screaming and begging you to do something to make her feel better is no way to conduct therapy. She has lost control of your therapy and herself. Not to even go near the ethical breach of her knowing she should not be treating you, which is a re-enactment of the collusion that can sometimes take place in abuse: you're the special one.
I think you cannot let go of her because she is holding out a promise of giving you what you didn't get as a child. The problem is that it's impossible which means no matter how much she loves you (and I believe she really does, I think she's lost the necessary detachment as a matter of fact) she simply can't do it. So at some point this is going to blow up horribly and you will be even more traumatized.
I also think you stay with her because she allows you to control therapy and you like it better that way. And the distance makes you feel safer. I think if you are really serious about your recovery, you need to find someone local who can hold clear boundaries and you need to try and understand why you can remain so unconcerned about yourself when someone on such intimate terms is sure your life is in danger.
Either her opinion is being colored by her lack of objectivity and losing a patient last year, or you are not seeing the situation clearly. Seeing someone local would clear this up either way.
I realize that I sound very harsh, but frankly, I am worried that your life is on the line, so it doesn't seem like a good time to mince words.
AG
I wasn't going to say anything but now that AG already said what I was thinking, I'm just going to say that I agree with everything she wrote.
It wasn't right for your T to agree to treat you if it was illegal. I believe she's doing the right thing by trying to get you to see someone else. But it doesn't seem like she's being sufficiently clear and consistent about it, because she has lost all perspective and detachment. You need her to be your T (no matter how much you might dislike therapeutic boundaries) and she's trying to be something else, something she can't really be for you. Not only is that preventing you from doing the work you need to do in therapy, it sounds like it's becoming destabilizing as well and possibly dangerous to your health.
I agree you should see someone locally. If you're not a danger to yourself, then I don't think they will try to get you admitted. But if you ARE in danger, it's much more important to stay alive than to worry about your job. As someone said, you won't have a job anymore if you're dead.
Your T is already more your friend than your T, and she can't be both. I don't think you need to cut her out of your life, but you badly need an actual T who doesn't have any role confusion.
It wasn't right for your T to agree to treat you if it was illegal. I believe she's doing the right thing by trying to get you to see someone else. But it doesn't seem like she's being sufficiently clear and consistent about it, because she has lost all perspective and detachment. You need her to be your T (no matter how much you might dislike therapeutic boundaries) and she's trying to be something else, something she can't really be for you. Not only is that preventing you from doing the work you need to do in therapy, it sounds like it's becoming destabilizing as well and possibly dangerous to your health.
I agree you should see someone locally. If you're not a danger to yourself, then I don't think they will try to get you admitted. But if you ARE in danger, it's much more important to stay alive than to worry about your job. As someone said, you won't have a job anymore if you're dead.
Your T is already more your friend than your T, and she can't be both. I don't think you need to cut her out of your life, but you badly need an actual T who doesn't have any role confusion.
LG,
I'm sorry that you are having this struggle. I sense a lot of fear in your writing. I agree with AG has said and I'm sorry if it sounds harsh, but I'm concerned for your safety.
I know that many T's will allow adjunct T's so I don't think that is a problem. I know my T has actively encouraged it. I really think you need someone in person and someone who can hold good boundaries and put your needs first. I'm concerned that you are so set against finding a local T. They won't admit you if there isn't a reason to do so.
As far as Wellbutrin goes, I don't think any doctor is going to prescribe that to someone with an active eating disorder. I take Wellbutrin and Xanax (the combo you mentioned). The WB is in the morning and the Xanax is at night for sleep. It has been a wonderful combination for me, but I don't have an eating disorder. If your life is already in danger from an eating disorder, Wellbutrin could be a disaster.
It sounds like your T is very concerned for your life. I know it sounds harsh, but do you want help? Do you want to get better? If you do then please consider finding a local T and looking into a treatment center that can help you in your recovery.
I'm sorry that you are having this struggle. I sense a lot of fear in your writing. I agree with AG has said and I'm sorry if it sounds harsh, but I'm concerned for your safety.
I know that many T's will allow adjunct T's so I don't think that is a problem. I know my T has actively encouraged it. I really think you need someone in person and someone who can hold good boundaries and put your needs first. I'm concerned that you are so set against finding a local T. They won't admit you if there isn't a reason to do so.
As far as Wellbutrin goes, I don't think any doctor is going to prescribe that to someone with an active eating disorder. I take Wellbutrin and Xanax (the combo you mentioned). The WB is in the morning and the Xanax is at night for sleep. It has been a wonderful combination for me, but I don't have an eating disorder. If your life is already in danger from an eating disorder, Wellbutrin could be a disaster.
It sounds like your T is very concerned for your life. I know it sounds harsh, but do you want help? Do you want to get better? If you do then please consider finding a local T and looking into a treatment center that can help you in your recovery.
(((((LG))))
I know how hard it is to do something when you feel really scared that something is going to be taken away from you. But maybe you don't have to lose your T if you find another T. Maybe you can make that clear from the beginning and say it's not negotiable, that you already got put in a spot where you had to choose and you are not willing to do that again.
What if you could actually find a T who would accept that? And you could get more support than you have now? And not only that, local support. If I was in a new city, I would feel pretty lonely and it might be really nice to have a connection like that.
Or if you don't want to go that far, what about establishing a relationship with a life coach. Just someone else who is local and can be a source of support for you.
It can only help to get as much support for yourself as you can.
((((((LG))))))
Liese
I know how hard it is to do something when you feel really scared that something is going to be taken away from you. But maybe you don't have to lose your T if you find another T. Maybe you can make that clear from the beginning and say it's not negotiable, that you already got put in a spot where you had to choose and you are not willing to do that again.
What if you could actually find a T who would accept that? And you could get more support than you have now? And not only that, local support. If I was in a new city, I would feel pretty lonely and it might be really nice to have a connection like that.
Or if you don't want to go that far, what about establishing a relationship with a life coach. Just someone else who is local and can be a source of support for you.
It can only help to get as much support for yourself as you can.
((((((LG))))))
Liese
To me that's like saying to a suicidal homeless person "well if you're dead, you won't have a home anyway." It's not fair to someone in that position. I have also been suicidal and the daily routine of my job and having to go to work every day has helped keep me sane. None of us really understand LG's situation, but if she believes she doesn't need to be hospitalized, then I am inclined to support her in that decision. It would be different if she was eschewing all treatment entirely.quote:As someone said, you won't have a job anymore if you're dead.
As for having 2 T's at once - since your T is technically not licensed to practice in your state, I think consulting a local T is a good idea. Then you can continue to check in with your current T over skype. I'm sure that if you explain the situation, a new T would be willing to work with you and understand what's going on here.
quote:I disagree with you that I am not serious about my recovery, and am a little offended by that comment.
LG, I apologize, that was a poor choice of wording on my part and I was out of line. I intended no offense but understand why you felt that way.
I wrote what I did out of concern for you. I do not know what you are doing with your therapist, but it longer seems to be therapy. I am baffled as to how you can heal in this relationship. You seem to acknowledge that it is going to end badly, yet continue to stay in it. Which is certainly your choice and your right. I will refrain from further comment on your situation, as I do not know what to tell you beyond what I have already said.
I do want to present you with one last question to consider (no need to answer, I do not wish to put you on the spot, only to think about it). In the time you have been working with this T can you identify any areas of your life in which you are functioning better or have seen improvement?
I wish you all the best in your healing.
AG
LG ~ yeah, I don't get the sense that you are about to end your life... I hear ya on that. Even if your T thought you were, she could/should be doing more already... She just doesn't seem to be thinking through stuff very objectively at all, but very reactively.
Honestly, I have the means to end my life around me too, but there is a BIG distance between me and actually having SU thoughts and plans, and actually acting on them. It's my understanding that even if someone has thoughts and plans, usually if someone can make a solid commitment to not acting on it, then they are not hospitalized.
Your T is totally off base in pressuring you into hospitalization. You are right that it is more about her and her feelings about you (which are of deep care and concern) than it is about what you need or what would help.
You did a good thing! Your T is just totally screwed up handling it. I'm glad you did reach out and shared, that was a good thing to do. Your T totally overreacted... I don't think most Ts would react the same as your T did to you sharing what you did. I'm pretty sure of that. Most Ts would want to talk it through more, come up with skills and plan to be safe if that was a concern, and hear you out on it and not react so much and so emotionally. It sounds like your T just started giving ultimatiums and seems really... upset... and I'm concerned that in her upset and fears about you, that she isn't meeting your needs, even though she really does care about you.
I am glad you are considering other options for support other than your T.
I also hear that you are scared of losing this T. I remember when my old T was getting really off and reactive, and I knew it wasn't right the way she was handling things, but it was so painful to look at the possibility of needing to end and needing to find someone new. It's so hard to break that bond that gets developed. And isn't this the T you have known for a really long time? It sounds like she is really close to you too. What she is doing right now just isn't right or helpful or good - and your reaction to her is showing you that something is wrong with how she is handling it. You are so right on that. That's why I think adding other support might be good right now... not so that the support means you need to go through the painful processing of ending with her right now... but just that there is a place you can get some steady support in the middle of this. And there is a chance things could end with her, and if you had other support, it might help it be a lot less traumatic to end.
aw LG, I'm sorry she's being so crummy and losing her professionalism like this. I'm glad she was warmer today, but I wish even more she was being more steady and less focused on her concerns and more focused on your actual your needs with more professionalism. I'm baffled by how reactive she is. not good.
lots of hugs to ya,
jane
Honestly, I have the means to end my life around me too, but there is a BIG distance between me and actually having SU thoughts and plans, and actually acting on them. It's my understanding that even if someone has thoughts and plans, usually if someone can make a solid commitment to not acting on it, then they are not hospitalized.
Your T is totally off base in pressuring you into hospitalization. You are right that it is more about her and her feelings about you (which are of deep care and concern) than it is about what you need or what would help.
quote:I'm just really depressed. And I told her this because I don't want it to get to the point where I become suicidal again. That's why I reached out to her. And I feel like she is reacting as though I'm already at that point.
You did a good thing! Your T is just totally screwed up handling it. I'm glad you did reach out and shared, that was a good thing to do. Your T totally overreacted... I don't think most Ts would react the same as your T did to you sharing what you did. I'm pretty sure of that. Most Ts would want to talk it through more, come up with skills and plan to be safe if that was a concern, and hear you out on it and not react so much and so emotionally. It sounds like your T just started giving ultimatiums and seems really... upset... and I'm concerned that in her upset and fears about you, that she isn't meeting your needs, even though she really does care about you.
I am glad you are considering other options for support other than your T.
I also hear that you are scared of losing this T. I remember when my old T was getting really off and reactive, and I knew it wasn't right the way she was handling things, but it was so painful to look at the possibility of needing to end and needing to find someone new. It's so hard to break that bond that gets developed.
And isn't this the T you have known for a really long time? It sounds like she is really close to you too. What she is doing right now just isn't right or helpful or good - and your reaction to her is showing you that something is wrong with how she is handling it. You are so right on that. That's why I think adding other support might be good right now... not so that the support means you need to go through the painful processing of ending with her right now... but just that there is a place you can get some steady support in the middle of this. And there is a chance things could end with her, and if you had other support, it might help it be a lot less traumatic to end. aw LG, I'm sorry she's being so crummy and losing her professionalism like this.
I'm glad she was warmer today, but I wish even more she was being more steady and less focused on her concerns and more focused on your actual your needs with more professionalism. I'm baffled by how reactive she is. not good. lots of hugs to ya,
jane
LG, I didn't mean to say that your job wasn't important. If your job is what's keeping you alive right now, I agree that you should keep it. I just meant that if you were really in danger of losing your life in spite of having your job, then you should take any means necessary to make sure that you are safe, including measures that could result in losing your job.
Personally I don't think you need to be hospitalized, but I do think you need some other support besides your T, who almost seems to be more distraught than you are at this point.
Personally I don't think you need to be hospitalized, but I do think you need some other support besides your T, who almost seems to be more distraught than you are at this point.
LG,
I totally understand about not wanting to be in the hospital and feeling that it won't help. I absolutely understand that because I have very strong feelings about the hospital myself. I honestly don't think a T would do it unless your life was in danger. When I talked about your life being in danger I was talking from the perspective of your eating disorder, not that I thought you were going to commit SU.
YIKES!!
Big red flag to me. I know that you've said this and recognize it, but I really think she is not your T any more. I can only imagine how devastating the idea of losing her must feel, but I am worried that the longer it goes on the worse it is going to be.
I totally understand about not wanting to be in the hospital and feeling that it won't help. I absolutely understand that because I have very strong feelings about the hospital myself. I honestly don't think a T would do it unless your life was in danger. When I talked about your life being in danger I was talking from the perspective of your eating disorder, not that I thought you were going to commit SU.
quote:She told me that I would be abandoning her.
YIKES!!
Big red flag to me. I know that you've said this and recognize it, but I really think she is not your T any more. I can only imagine how devastating the idea of losing her must feel, but I am worried that the longer it goes on the worse it is going to be.
((((((LG))))))
My heart goes out to you. You are in a really bad spot trying to be the parent and the child all in one shot.
What I am expressing below is just my opinion. As you know, I have no professional schooling or experience in psychology. But, what I am writing is from my own observations and experience.
It seems as though your T is human afterall and has gotten emotionally involved with you. She also has her own baggage that she carries with her, including that SU that she just told you about.
I can't help but wonder here about a possible reenactment going on here with your T. Does it remind you at all of having to take care of your mother when your father was dying, when you really needed to be taken care of? Is this possibly where the abandonment is coming into play?
I consulted with a trauma T this summer and she made a comment that really floored me. She said that not everyone can work through their trauma. I didn't ask her why but of course, I assumed that she might be talking about me and this greatly upset me. What possible reasons could there be that someone couldn't work through their trauma? I mean, if there was a map, surely one could find their way through it if they knew how. I would love to hear others' thoughts on what they think but what I came up with is, that it's just too damn painful. That for some people, it's just too hard to relive those difficult emotions and feel thrown right back into the middle of that trauma. That there isn't enough "good" stuff in the brain to counteract the trauma processing, that someone might not have enough to ground them. That the fear is so great and too unbearable to withstand.
I want to acknowledge how important your T is to you. She gives you that tether to the earth, to the world. She gives you that connection, that hope, that reason for living.
But now it's turned into a situation where you have to take care of her but you are the one who needs help. If you can see your way clear to finding more support in your local community, whether it be with a life coach or a T, it seems like that would be really helpful. Because your T isn't going to be able to contain you right now. She's lost in her own little emotional roller coaster and she is going to pull you along with her.
Once you develop more connections, the pull of her energy won't be so damaging to you. But you need to focus on you. On your depression. On your sadness. On fixing your life.
And, it will happen LG. I know it will. It's happening to me. I had to have a little faith once in a while. Okay, a lot. But I do have faith that once I can tether myself to the earth, I won't feel so whipped around by other people and I will become my own steady light, my own beacon. I will be able to see my way clear regardless of what is going on around me.
And I have faith that you can do that too. You just need to override your brain right now. You don't have to cut ties with your T. Just try to develop some other connections locally. Fight that part of you that doesn't want to. Fight her. Because that could actually be your mother in there not wanting you to be an independent person. Because she was afraid to lose you after losing her husband. Of course, I am just speculating. But that might not really be you. There could be a real independent LG in there, waiting to get out and live a beautiful, full, free life.
((((((LG)))))))
Please let us know how you are doing today.
Liese
My heart goes out to you. You are in a really bad spot trying to be the parent and the child all in one shot.
What I am expressing below is just my opinion. As you know, I have no professional schooling or experience in psychology. But, what I am writing is from my own observations and experience.
It seems as though your T is human afterall and has gotten emotionally involved with you. She also has her own baggage that she carries with her, including that SU that she just told you about.
I can't help but wonder here about a possible reenactment going on here with your T. Does it remind you at all of having to take care of your mother when your father was dying, when you really needed to be taken care of? Is this possibly where the abandonment is coming into play?
I consulted with a trauma T this summer and she made a comment that really floored me. She said that not everyone can work through their trauma. I didn't ask her why but of course, I assumed that she might be talking about me and this greatly upset me. What possible reasons could there be that someone couldn't work through their trauma? I mean, if there was a map, surely one could find their way through it if they knew how. I would love to hear others' thoughts on what they think but what I came up with is, that it's just too damn painful. That for some people, it's just too hard to relive those difficult emotions and feel thrown right back into the middle of that trauma. That there isn't enough "good" stuff in the brain to counteract the trauma processing, that someone might not have enough to ground them. That the fear is so great and too unbearable to withstand.
I want to acknowledge how important your T is to you. She gives you that tether to the earth, to the world. She gives you that connection, that hope, that reason for living.
But now it's turned into a situation where you have to take care of her but you are the one who needs help. If you can see your way clear to finding more support in your local community, whether it be with a life coach or a T, it seems like that would be really helpful. Because your T isn't going to be able to contain you right now. She's lost in her own little emotional roller coaster and she is going to pull you along with her.
Once you develop more connections, the pull of her energy won't be so damaging to you. But you need to focus on you. On your depression. On your sadness. On fixing your life.
And, it will happen LG. I know it will. It's happening to me. I had to have a little faith once in a while. Okay, a lot. But I do have faith that once I can tether myself to the earth, I won't feel so whipped around by other people and I will become my own steady light, my own beacon. I will be able to see my way clear regardless of what is going on around me.
And I have faith that you can do that too. You just need to override your brain right now. You don't have to cut ties with your T. Just try to develop some other connections locally. Fight that part of you that doesn't want to. Fight her. Because that could actually be your mother in there not wanting you to be an independent person. Because she was afraid to lose you after losing her husband. Of course, I am just speculating. But that might not really be you. There could be a real independent LG in there, waiting to get out and live a beautiful, full, free life.
((((((LG)))))))
Please let us know how you are doing today.
Liese
LG,
I am sorry that she is projecting her needs and hurts onto you, that is not acceptable nor helpful at all to your progress. You cannot continue to be true to yourself and your therapy issues if you are constantly holding back for fear of upsetting your therapist. I am really sorry that it has got to this stage LG, I can imagine how hard this must feel.
Coming from the UK I do not really understand about your cross-county treatment laws, but realise that this is obviously another red flag and her professional judgement seems to have been skewed out of a need to try and help
Take care LG,
starfishy
quote:confessed that the thought of terminating upsets her as much as it upsets me and she just cannot bring herself to do it.
It broke my heart to hear how upsetting it was to her that I am so depressed. I feel guilty that I am causing her so much stress and worry. I could not even look at her when she was crying.
I am sorry that she is projecting her needs and hurts onto you, that is not acceptable nor helpful at all to your progress. You cannot continue to be true to yourself and your therapy issues if you are constantly holding back for fear of upsetting your therapist. I am really sorry that it has got to this stage LG, I can imagine how hard this must feel.
Coming from the UK I do not really understand about your cross-county treatment laws, but realise that this is obviously another red flag and her professional judgement seems to have been skewed out of a need to try and help
Take care LG,
starfishy
quote:I know I'm the one responsible for the roller coaster ride with her. I feel like i will have this with any T. Its me that's the problem.
I don't agree that it is you who is the problem. This is about the only thing I quote my mother on, but as she used to say, "It takes two to tango."
"but I feel like the pain of terminating with her would be worse than staying."
That's why it would be great if you could start to develop another relationship locally so that it wouldn't be a sudden termination. Just my opinion.
quote:Sometimes, I feel so worthless and ignored. But then I get reeled back in with something she says or does and then its bliss again. She'll say amazing wonderful things and text me encouraging words and will be my rock. But then she'll pull away and ignore my texts and cancel a session. I am confused by her hot and coldness and I feel like garbage.
LG... I am sorry for your pain but this does not bode well for a healthy therapy relatonship. It almost sounds like the relationship is conditional. I have come to learn through, terrible experience, that it's important for a T to be utterly consistent, dependable, non-defensive and pretty much fearless in the face of trauma. When the T is consistent it allows the patient to move around with the T holding the frame of therapy safe and secure.
I don't agree that this is happening because of you. It's your T's responsibility to maintain the frame and the boundaries of therapy. She has not done a good job and you spend your time worrying if she will be warm or detached or angry or scared or if there are topics that trigger her and you should avoid. This is no way to do therapy. You cannot be you for fear of upsetting her. In fact, I think your therapy with her ceased a while ago.
I know you are scared, who in their right mind wouldn't be scared? I was terrified and I lost my T in a horrific way... but I survived it and went on to find an amazing, wonderful T. Of course, I don't recommend you allowing things to end the way mine did, but you can go out there and find a local T who fits with what you need... a certain type of experience, some outside contact, convenient hours etc. and keep your other T around long enough to help you transition and then leave therapy with her. Maybe you could stay in email contact a few times per year just to check in and catch up.
I'm sorry to be so blunt but it's only because I am concerned about you and your health. I don't see this therapist is helping you and she could be harming you and preventing your growth and healing.
LG.. it does not have to end as badly as mine did. I should have left him before it got to the point where he abandoned me and stupidly called the police on me. At that point I had no more control over the situation. Of course if you leave her it will still hurt like hell but you will have some control over the situation and that makes it a bit less traumatizing. Yes, you will experience grief as I did but there won't be the aspect of trauma involved. Plus you can try to work it out where you have some transition time with both of them until you feel ready to end it. I didn't have that opportunity and I know it would have helped me.
And who is to say you won't find another local that that you can attach to and love? I would have never believed it but it can happen with the right person. I love my T and he is good for me and healthy and my fear is SO much less. The ups and downs are less often and not so dramatic. there is still pain but I can go to him with it and he can ease it. OldT would get frantic when I was in pain and had no confidence in the process. My T says that oldT made me believe I was sicker and needier than I really am.
I wish you the best, LG. Maybe you could just try a local T without feeling you have to make a decision immediately.
TN
And who is to say you won't find another local that that you can attach to and love? I would have never believed it but it can happen with the right person. I love my T and he is good for me and healthy and my fear is SO much less. The ups and downs are less often and not so dramatic. there is still pain but I can go to him with it and he can ease it. OldT would get frantic when I was in pain and had no confidence in the process. My T says that oldT made me believe I was sicker and needier than I really am.
I wish you the best, LG. Maybe you could just try a local T without feeling you have to make a decision immediately.
TN
(((((((LG)))))))) You are not the problem. Your T might be doing a dance with you that isn’t healthy so to speak, but it isn’t you to blame. Not one bit. It is her JOB to not get into an unhealthy way of relating with you. That’s her role! That’s what you are paying her for! She’s not handling her care and concern for you in the right way, so that it is good steady healthy unconditional caring. I do still think she cares very deeply for you, but I do think you are very right in the sense that she is very wrapped up in her own stuff, she has made the therapy about her needs, and is meeting your needs…
I’m so sorry that she's made the therapy about her. I remember when I realized I wasn’t going to be able to stay with my old T, I stayed anyhow because it was way too painful to leave. It blew up in my face and ended all the same, as I knew it would, but knowing that it would end didn’t take away any of the pain of it ending. And yes, honestly, it hurt, a lot. I was really attached and bonded with her, even when things were like a rollercoaster – good one session and hard the next. And the pain of ending was rough. But now, I’m glad I didn’t stay. I thought the same thing would happen with any new T. I had tried and tried so many times. But now, I have new Ts, and it is very different. It helped a lot that when I new I had to switch, I started already seeing a new T, and it made the ending not only easier, it also helped me connect with the new T in a new way, in a healthier way.
I am also glad I did work with my old T for the time that I did. It was a really important step in my journey towards healing. I’m glad now that I didn’t stay with her too, even though it was hellish to end, because now I’ve been able to move further in my healing than my old T could take me.
You are ready to move past where this T can take you. Maybe you don’t even have to end for good. Maybe you could see her once a month for awhile once you see the new T or something… I dunno…
I’m so sorry LG. This just sucks that she is being this way. My heart really goes out to you.
hugs,
~jane
I’m so sorry that she's made the therapy about her. I remember when I realized I wasn’t going to be able to stay with my old T, I stayed anyhow because it was way too painful to leave. It blew up in my face and ended all the same, as I knew it would, but knowing that it would end didn’t take away any of the pain of it ending. And yes, honestly, it hurt, a lot. I was really attached and bonded with her, even when things were like a rollercoaster – good one session and hard the next. And the pain of ending was rough. But now, I’m glad I didn’t stay. I thought the same thing would happen with any new T. I had tried and tried so many times. But now, I have new Ts, and it is very different. It helped a lot that when I new I had to switch, I started already seeing a new T, and it made the ending not only easier, it also helped me connect with the new T in a new way, in a healthier way.
I am also glad I did work with my old T for the time that I did. It was a really important step in my journey towards healing. I’m glad now that I didn’t stay with her too, even though it was hellish to end, because now I’ve been able to move further in my healing than my old T could take me.
You are ready to move past where this T can take you. Maybe you don’t even have to end for good. Maybe you could see her once a month for awhile once you see the new T or something… I dunno…
I’m so sorry LG. This just sucks that she is being this way. My heart really goes out to you.
hugs,
~jane
LG.. I think its not your fault but its not a good sign you are jealous of her taking care of her son. I totally understand what you are going through emotionally. I do think you should find a new T. That you will need to let go here. She isn't local anyway right? I think you are being hard on her. Try to give her some space if you can. I think relaxing will help the relationship/situation. I think you need to find new / other relationships to lean on. Whether it be a new T or your friends.
I hope you feel better.
I hope you feel better.
It seems like the two of you are locked in some kind of struggle right now. It will continue to get worse until one of you drops it.
She can't give you what you need, LG. It's like you're clinging to a sinking boat. You need to find some other help. I know it seems almost impossible to do. I'm sure your T cares and doesn't want to abandon you right now, but she also seems to have no idea what she is doing. Right now you need to focus on helping yourself any way you can before you get pulled into this mess any deeper.
She can't give you what you need, LG. It's like you're clinging to a sinking boat. You need to find some other help. I know it seems almost impossible to do. I'm sure your T cares and doesn't want to abandon you right now, but she also seems to have no idea what she is doing. Right now you need to focus on helping yourself any way you can before you get pulled into this mess any deeper.
LG, this shouldn't be about her. It's supposed to be her role as a T to protect you, and worry about YOUR needs. Since she's forsaken that role, you need to focus on taking care of yourself.
This isn't your fault, LG, but the best thing you can do for BOTH of you now is anything you can do take care of and get support for yourself.
This isn't your fault, LG, but the best thing you can do for BOTH of you now is anything you can do take care of and get support for yourself.
(((((LG)))))
You must be heartbroken. I'm sorry this has all been so hard. BLT is right, she has forsaken her role and made you responsible for her feelings. She needs therapy herself.
Do you have plans to call around tomorrow to look for potential T's? We are here when you need us.
HUGS,
Liese
You must be heartbroken. I'm sorry this has all been so hard. BLT is right, she has forsaken her role and made you responsible for her feelings. She needs therapy herself.
Do you have plans to call around tomorrow to look for potential T's? We are here when you need us.
HUGS,
Liese
((((LG)))) I have been following this thread, but couldn't think of anything helpful to say that others hadn't already said much better. But, I did want to let you know that I'm here for you as you work through this. It was never your responsibility to dictate or hold the boundaries or sort out your T's feelings for you. It was always your T's job to do that and to consult or get supervision when she began to be concerned/confused about her role and her own feelings in the therapeutic relationship. While I know sometimes you were thriving on the very real care and concern she had for you, her unpredictability has also be confusing, painful and damaging. I hope you are able to find a new T to see face to face in your area. It will be scary, perhaps, to surrender control of the framework to someone else, especially someone new...but, I also think you'll find it to be really freeing as you allow yourself to do divest yourself of that responsibility. Maybe after a time of sorting through what fell apart in your therapy, you can have your ex-T as a sort of sporadic penpal as others have suggested, as I know you both care about one another a great deal. I have a teacher from high school who I care about a great deal, who I tend to email a couple times a year to share new creative writing and while it's not the same as the everyday relationship we used to have, I've found a lot of value in keeping that connection in that more-limited, yet still quite profound way.
Lots of hugs to you. Please do not beat yourself up. Even though you've known this might be coming for a while, again, it was never your job to manage any of this and all of us who have ever thought of leaving Ts we are attached to for any reason (whether justified or fear-based) will be able to commiserate with you on how impossible it feels to have to make that choice.
Lots of hugs to you. Please do not beat yourself up. Even though you've known this might be coming for a while, again, it was never your job to manage any of this and all of us who have ever thought of leaving Ts we are attached to for any reason (whether justified or fear-based) will be able to commiserate with you on how impossible it feels to have to make that choice.
LG, I'm really sorry things have developed to this stage. I know you must be in a great deal of pain right now. You really don't deserve what you are going through.
I want to share some things with you that might be a bit uncomfortable at first, but I think in the end could be useful, so I'm hoping you can bear with me.
When I read your earlier posts about this situation I really had a strong reaction (you might have noticed) because it felt really familiar to me from something I'm going through. I'm sorry I reacted that way instead of realising what I was reacting to and stepping back, but I also think maybe there's something useful in the background.
My H is clinically depressed, but has been extremely reluctant to get any help for a while. He's been in therapy and dropped out, and if I try to encourage (or even strongly encourage...) him towards therapy, he feels like I'm forcing him. I have no desire to force anything, but it also puts me in a tough spot because I feel unable to handle his unhappiness and the extent of his problems. I love him and care about him and would do anything to make him happy, but actually can't do the things he believes I can. Sometimes when he needs something from me I feel like I'm drowning, because maybe technically I COULD give it, but if I did I wouldn't handle the other things in my life, and I feel panicky, like I'm going under. I don't have the emotional energy he needs. He reacts by holding on to me tighter, he doesn't understand why I'm resisting or refusing or failing him. He won't reach out anywhere else for help, because all he can see is that *I* have what he wants and needs, and no one else does. That makes me feel even more panicky, because I feel like I'm the only thing between him and the abyss, and I know that sooner or later I'll fail him and if he doesn't have any other support, we'll probably both go under. Yet from his point of view he doesn't want *that much* - just my consistency and belief in him. Only trouble is, I'm inconsistent, and I have a hard time believing in myself, let alone him. These are my own failings. So he wants something that I am not in possession of.
Now, recently this came to a crisis and now we are back in couples therapy and he is back in individual counselling. Our couples therapist did some assessment and described exactly this dilemma for us. And she made some suggestions that were immediately helpful. My side was to be careful about catastrophising small requests. Sometimes my H just needs me to listen and hear him, and it doesn't mean I have to save his life or solve his problems.
But the other side of it was that he needed to find ways *outside* the relationship to attend to some of his needs. Go to his individual therapy, and a bunch of other self-care stuff. She explained to him that this was not necessarily fair, that he should need to go outside the relationship for these things, but that it was the only way to respond to my sense of overwhelm. Because, she explained, every time he said that only this relationship could make him feel better, it was like a noose tightening around my neck. That is NOT right or fair, because it's not something he intended or was trying to do to me (usually he just wants basic support), but because of our individual issues and the pattern we had got into together, that's what it felt like.
Well, he has committed himself to his individual therapy, is taking care of himself in a bunch of different ways, diversifying the places he gets contact and input and good feeling in his life. And he has STOPPED saying that only this relationship can give him what he needs. This has only been going on a couple of weeks, but immediately I feel the noose loosen, and I can relax. I am much more able to be with him and give him what I can. I can hear his pain and unhappiness and consider his needs without panicking.
So I'm telling you this because I hear so much parallel with your situation with your T. I know you are walking away from the relationship, but I also know it's not what you want to do. And I'm wondering whether a similar shift might be possible for this relationship if you were to open yourself up to other sources of help. If you *were* to get another local T on board, that might be enough for your T to come out of her tailspin and relax a little, and maybe something of this relationship could be rescued.
Of course, this would mean you facing up to the risks involved in seeing a local T. I know you are really scared they would hospitalise you, but because all of this is so emotional, I'm not sure how likely that would be. Do you have some objective measures for that? What makes you think you would be hospitalised - is that idea coming from your T in her panic about your depression, or are there other reasons it's a risk?
Take care,
Jones
I want to share some things with you that might be a bit uncomfortable at first, but I think in the end could be useful, so I'm hoping you can bear with me.
When I read your earlier posts about this situation I really had a strong reaction (you might have noticed) because it felt really familiar to me from something I'm going through. I'm sorry I reacted that way instead of realising what I was reacting to and stepping back, but I also think maybe there's something useful in the background.
My H is clinically depressed, but has been extremely reluctant to get any help for a while. He's been in therapy and dropped out, and if I try to encourage (or even strongly encourage...) him towards therapy, he feels like I'm forcing him. I have no desire to force anything, but it also puts me in a tough spot because I feel unable to handle his unhappiness and the extent of his problems. I love him and care about him and would do anything to make him happy, but actually can't do the things he believes I can. Sometimes when he needs something from me I feel like I'm drowning, because maybe technically I COULD give it, but if I did I wouldn't handle the other things in my life, and I feel panicky, like I'm going under. I don't have the emotional energy he needs. He reacts by holding on to me tighter, he doesn't understand why I'm resisting or refusing or failing him. He won't reach out anywhere else for help, because all he can see is that *I* have what he wants and needs, and no one else does. That makes me feel even more panicky, because I feel like I'm the only thing between him and the abyss, and I know that sooner or later I'll fail him and if he doesn't have any other support, we'll probably both go under. Yet from his point of view he doesn't want *that much* - just my consistency and belief in him. Only trouble is, I'm inconsistent, and I have a hard time believing in myself, let alone him. These are my own failings. So he wants something that I am not in possession of.
Now, recently this came to a crisis and now we are back in couples therapy and he is back in individual counselling. Our couples therapist did some assessment and described exactly this dilemma for us. And she made some suggestions that were immediately helpful. My side was to be careful about catastrophising small requests. Sometimes my H just needs me to listen and hear him, and it doesn't mean I have to save his life or solve his problems.
But the other side of it was that he needed to find ways *outside* the relationship to attend to some of his needs. Go to his individual therapy, and a bunch of other self-care stuff. She explained to him that this was not necessarily fair, that he should need to go outside the relationship for these things, but that it was the only way to respond to my sense of overwhelm. Because, she explained, every time he said that only this relationship could make him feel better, it was like a noose tightening around my neck. That is NOT right or fair, because it's not something he intended or was trying to do to me (usually he just wants basic support), but because of our individual issues and the pattern we had got into together, that's what it felt like.
Well, he has committed himself to his individual therapy, is taking care of himself in a bunch of different ways, diversifying the places he gets contact and input and good feeling in his life. And he has STOPPED saying that only this relationship can give him what he needs. This has only been going on a couple of weeks, but immediately I feel the noose loosen, and I can relax. I am much more able to be with him and give him what I can. I can hear his pain and unhappiness and consider his needs without panicking.
So I'm telling you this because I hear so much parallel with your situation with your T. I know you are walking away from the relationship, but I also know it's not what you want to do. And I'm wondering whether a similar shift might be possible for this relationship if you were to open yourself up to other sources of help. If you *were* to get another local T on board, that might be enough for your T to come out of her tailspin and relax a little, and maybe something of this relationship could be rescued.
Of course, this would mean you facing up to the risks involved in seeing a local T. I know you are really scared they would hospitalise you, but because all of this is so emotional, I'm not sure how likely that would be. Do you have some objective measures for that? What makes you think you would be hospitalised - is that idea coming from your T in her panic about your depression, or are there other reasons it's a risk?
Take care,
Jones
quote:
I feel unable to handle his unhappiness and the extent of his problems. I love him and care about him and would do anything to make him happy, but actually can't do the things he believes I can. Sometimes when he needs something from me I feel like I'm drowning, because maybe technically I COULD give it, but if I did I wouldn't handle the other things in my life, and I feel panicky, like I'm going under. I don't have the emotional energy he needs. He reacts by holding on to me tighter, he doesn't understand why I'm resisting or refusing or failing him. He won't reach out anywhere else for help, because all he can see is that *I* have what he wants and needs, and no one else does. That makes me feel even more panicky, because I feel like I'm the only thing between him and the abyss, and I know that sooner or later I'll fail him and if he doesn't have any other support, we'll probably both go under. Yet from his point of view he doesn't want *that much* - just my consistency and belief in him. Only trouble is, I'm inconsistent, and I have a hard time believing in myself, let alone him. These are my own failings. So he wants something that I am not in possession of.
I think this is brilliantly said. And a lot of what is going on probably with anyone who has a difficult dynamic with their therapist where they are leaning on the therapist as a "lifeline". I was in this spot emotionally.
I think in regards to a therapist if one gets into this dynamic - I think its a poor fit and one should move on. I had two therapists where I had this dynamic with them but with my third we were able to have a entirely different dynamic because the way we came together I was able to trust the relationship much more.
In reality we are the ONLY person who can help ourselves. Either a therapist sees your inner strengths & resources which in every person is vast and knows how to tap that or they they think they have to keep giving and giving and can become drained. Its all always about tapping your inner resources and them awakening that part of you.
I think our chemistry is different with different people and some people won't feel the same burden as another person so there is hope in establishing a better relationship with someone else and a different dynamic.
A husband & wife scenario is different. I'm not saying they should split
LG, hope you are coping ok. Thinking of you.
(((((((((((((((((lg)))))))))))))))))))))
hope its going well!
I am only going to give my opinion one more time and then I can't even read this thread any more. It's too painful to watch.
YOU ALREADY TERMINATED THERAPY A WHILE AGO. Whatever is going on between you currently is NOT THERAPY. It's the opposite. It's frankly anti-therapeutic. It's making life unhappier and more traumatic for the both of you.
Normally we tell people on here to trust their T's and so on, but yours is NOT TRUSTWORTHY at the moment. Unless you pull the plug, get some perspective, and hopefully talk to a local therapist with intact boundaries, this could get really, really ugly. Since your T is doing NOTHING to protect you right now, I hope you will take steps to protect yourself.
YOU ALREADY TERMINATED THERAPY A WHILE AGO. Whatever is going on between you currently is NOT THERAPY. It's the opposite. It's frankly anti-therapeutic. It's making life unhappier and more traumatic for the both of you.
Normally we tell people on here to trust their T's and so on, but yours is NOT TRUSTWORTHY at the moment. Unless you pull the plug, get some perspective, and hopefully talk to a local therapist with intact boundaries, this could get really, really ugly. Since your T is doing NOTHING to protect you right now, I hope you will take steps to protect yourself.
((((((lg)))))))
It's so good to hear from you. It sounds like the bond and the emotions between you and your T goes really deep...
thinking of you,
jane
It's so good to hear from you. It sounds like the bond and the emotions between you and your T goes really deep...
thinking of you,
jane