Monte,
I really don't think you need to apologize but do appreciate you explaining what you meant more fully. I did get a bit defensive about what you wrote, I will admit, but was struggling as to whether it was coming from me (it was ) as I know you to be very respectful of other people's experience. I think that while our healing path's can share similarities, they are each truly unique and what may work for one person is not going to work for another. Which is why I am glad that you are here speaking of your experience because it will resonate so strongly for people who need what you do in order to heal.

I also want to heartily agree that being loved feels essential to healing to me also. I know that my T holds stricter boundaries than a lot of Ts and for some, it would be a real obstacle to healing (funny aside, a therapist I work with at the crisis line saw him years ago for one session, said "nope, doesn't work for me" and didn't go back. ). But he really works for me. But an important part of that is that I do feel and experience being loved by him in a very deep and committed way. It is that love that heals me and opens me to the healing.

Thank you for coming back and expanding on what you meant.

AG

Monte

Speak what is the truth for you. I would feel it be more insensitive not to speak your truth, wisdom, or work through your "stuff". I say this with a deep understanding that many of my own thoughts, distorted or not (as we all have both) aren't always sensitive, what other people need/want or agree with. I feel like total crap when I say something that ends up being a buzz kill, or triggers people, or I feel shame for. Honestly, I haven't read that thread yet I just knew I wanted to be supportive, FWIW. My overall experience of you has not been that you are insensitive. I think this thread here, explaining where you are coming from, really honors your own journey, however imperfect (as it is for everyone) it is.

Have a gentle evening

Edited to add that from my session today my T said that the grief and ownership parts of healing are important, the path to healing I'm her opinion (for me) but she equally feels strongly about re-experiencing (or experiencing for the first time) what sorta should have been. Just figured I would throw her two cents in there. Personally, I'm just lost, hanging out to see what works... And whatever that will or has looked like. Both of my Ts express and display a lot of "overt" love it helps I think in some of the dismissive issues I have.

Hi Monte....thank you for this further clarification of what you posted on my thread. I did not think you insensitive at all. I looked upon what you said as an interesting perspective and one that is not very far from what my own T believes. He does believe that I can have some of what I missed in childhood. The nurturing and the protection and the care that was missed, he can give that to me. It's me that has the issue with accepting it. While I cannot have everything that I missed out on (obviously I cannot curl up on his lap and be rocked to sleep or read to) but he really believes that I can get enough of what I missed to heal and to get better. He also knows there is a place for the grief that I need to feel, experience and express. From what he has said to me there are two approaches to this healing journey. The grief work and the nurturing.

I have been impressed, inspired and thrilled with the obvious progress you are making so whatever you are doing it's working well. Your voice is stronger and more confident and I am delighted (selfishly) that you have not been as prone to deleting your threads.

Thank you for this explanation. It's been helpful and thank you for being considerate in not hijacking my thread (although I would not have minded).


TN

i don't think you were insensitive and I found what you wrote very valuable .I copied some of it and emailed it to my T and we talked about it today.

Somedays

Monte,

I really appreciated your comments on that thread, and like SomeDays, I copied some of it for myself for future reference. I am also experiencing a turn in my journey, and I have also felt a shift that I never thought would come--and I am approaching 50. I am so hopeful about the change I feel in myself.

Unfortunately, this shift may mean an end to my journey with my therapist for just the reason you talked about. I believe now that I need a little more experience of a warm relationship and I am struggling a lot to get it from my therapist.

I appreciate the way you explained that coming to this place with your therapist took a lot of work and communication, and yet that it is also so simple somehow.

Your comments helped me.

Hi Monte,

I admit I frowned when reading your original post, but not out of being offended, just the deep conviction that grief work does work when it comes to healing. As often, it's an and/and story and not an or/or one, I think. I hear you very clearly when it comes to the hesitation about telling us of the love you experience with your T. I'm one of the lucky ones who have that kind of T and I admit to holding back on this forum about the sometimes amazing moments I experience with her, out of fear of hurting the ones here who are struggling with their T's. I often think of what AG has stated in some of her posts: it helps me to grieve the things that belong to the past and that grief just opens me up for the love I can receive from my T (and others) today.
And of course I struggle with all that (getting our wires crossed is my specialty ) but that always turns out to be another growing opportunity.
One last thing: in my second days of T- training (i'm off for a four year course) last weekend, the teacher was talking about the bond between T an client being a "working alliance". I'm very intrigued about that choice of words. We so often speak about it being a relationship, which of course it is, but which does have this connotation of reciprocity that can be confusing. I hope I'm making sense here. At this moment, my adult self tries to see it as a loving, working alliance in which there is room for the baby me to experience and express its need for care and love and be met and accepted.
And that's just my way of experiencing this. All of us on this forum have our own unique way of experiencing our bond with our T. I'm happy for you and the way it's working out with your T. And if someone takes offense or is hurt in any other way by what you've said, than there should be room for that too. Real, healthy relationships don't destroy us, or get broken because people don't agree or misunderstand eachother. I'm learning that with my T at this very moment and it's a tough one.
I appreciate you explaining what you meant. So now everybody just understands you better

I appreciate what you wrote too, Monte.

I have been reading a lot of parenting blogs lately, not because I have children but because I think it's helped me to understand myself, therapy, and other people better. I really recommend this one: http://www.ahaparenting.com/

Anyway, I've been thinking about how nurturing and grief work are actually the two sides of parenting. What do I mean? All good parents try to protect and nurture their children, and to fulfill their desires to some extent. However, children have so many hard things they need to learn to accept: rules, their own limitations, their parents' limitations, difficult and scary things about the world in general. Different parents draw the line in different places, but the bottom line is that regardless of how much protection and nurturing parents can offer, they can never make everything perfect for their children. That is where grief work comes in. It's the job of parents to be there to listen and hold a space for their children to let out their grief (anger, sadness, etc.) about everything that is hard for them. It's hard to accept that you can't have that second cookie or stay on the swings all day, or that you have to brush your teeth, or that kids on the playground can be mean sometimes, but the care and listening of your parents helps you accept these realities, knowing that you are loved and your feelings are understood and validated. In that way you can hold onto an overall positive view of yourself and of the world in spite of the difficulties. And I think in a nutshell therapists are often there to do the exact same thing. All of them give us some level of nurturing, and the amount is different for every T but regardless of how much they give, they can't take away all our pain or make our lives or the world perfect for us. Still, they are there to give us the love and acceptance to help us move through the pain and come out the other side. For some the love and acceptance may mean physical touch or verbal expressions of love, and for others it might mean just listening. Just like some children like to be held while they cry or tantrum, and others would just like their parent to sit quietly near them, different things work for different people.

Anyway, those were the thoughts I was having.

(((MONTE)))

I think it's awesome that you were so honest with everyone but mostly yourself about what was going through your head when you wrote what you wrote. Those types of thoughts tell you that on some level you were aware that someone out here in myshrinkdom might be offended or hurt by what you wanted to express. I've noticed that I do that and I haven't exactly been honest with myself when on some level I am aware I am responding to something someone wrote because it doesn't jive with what I need and want to believe. The anger or annoyance that we perhaps feel about not being validated is from not receiving the validation that we are awesome and deserving we so desperately needed in childhood. Sorting out these seemingly innocuous thoughts and validating ourselves will only help us to become more sensitive to others and skilled at relationships.

While I do agree with everyone that it's not an either/or type of situation but an and/and, your point about T's attempting to put distance between T and client who then rationalize it by telling us and themselves it's good for us because of the necessity for grieving struck a chord with me. I could never work with a T who felt removed from me even if they were trustworthy and knowledgeable. I need a certain amount of emotional closeness.

The whole boundary setting thing is tricky. A child might be trying to get an emotional need met by asking for that second cookie but it goes unrecognized. It's not only when the child is indulged that causes a problem but also when they are denied the emotional goodies they needed. If you have been denied ALL of the emotional goodies you needed as a child, then grieving needs that were never met in the first place sounds and probably is very harsh. There has to be a balance between getting and not getting. When children are deprived, they can very often grow up not knowing how to deal with all types of negative feelings, including jealousy and envy. It makes complete sense that we might feel jealous or envious when we weren't allowed to have what we see others get.

Can you spoil a child by meeting all their emotional needs? And where does fear fit in there?

The truth is, though, we don't have to do the grieving but then we'd get stuck right where we are and we wouldn't grow. And that would be sad.

I wasn't offended and I found your post to be insightful and helpful in my journey. It gave me lots to think about. Thanks for explaining further too.

(((((MONTE)))))



Take good care of yourself and hope you are back sooner rather than later.