You can quote anything anyone else has written/said as long as you give the author credit and don't claim it as your own.

Sounds like you have an unique opportunity to really connect with your sister on a whole new level. But you are smart to be cautious because it takes a lot of effort to not fall into the familiar family pattern that has been so ingrained into us without even realizing it. When I started talking to my sister again I had to be very clear to myself about what realistic expectations I could have about our relationship and what I would do if I ever felt scared or threatened by her. I luckily had shared a lot of this with my husband and he was more than willing to back me up if I started to flail. It has been 5 years since we this new relationship and I still don't let my guard down. I am started to forgive her but forgiveness doesn't automatically mean I trust her. My sister is in complete denial about our history and has never been in therapy and she really needs it. I pray she will seek out a good T some day. I am glad that your sister has made this step. It could be a great journey you can share with her.

Thanks River,

I guess I should’ve known that about giving the author credit. Sometimes all I can say for myself is-“DUH!”

As far as an opportunity to connect with my sister, I hope so. My family has a tendency to bump into each other and our issues rather than have real relationships with one another. I used to be disillusioned that there wasn’t more of a sense of comradery between siblings who share so much of each others past, but there isn’t. How sad. But I also understand that I separated myself from the rest of them for my and my daughter’s protection 20 years ago. I think most of them are at least slightly embittered believing that I always thought I was better than them. I wanted better for myself and my daughter; I didn’t condescendingly think I was better than them. I think now as I am tending to reach out a little, they don’t know what to think. Sometimes I imagine they call each other saying, “What’s going on with “baby sister” do you think she’s ok? She’s being rather nice. Do you think she is ill? Is she dying??”

While I am ok with reaching out and making connections, I agree with you River, that being on guard is a safety precaution that is wise to use. I don’t have to trust them, in fact I can’t. But I CAN trust myself now to know my limits and my boundaries and to respect my limits and my boundaries even if they don’t. Wow, look at me all grown up now.

Here are the lyrics to that song. Maybe I could figure out how to post the actual song. I’m a bit new at forum posting in case it isn’t obvious enough.

Ah, My Sister-By Carole Bayer-Sager, Peter Allen


Ah my sister, it’s good to see you after all this time.
I’ve been thinking bout how hard our climb has been
Going our separate ways but knowing that we always had a friend
And hoping I’d be meeting you again

My sister, it’s good to see how time has been so kind
When I thought I’d never hear from you no more
Funny how you just knocked on my door.

I’m a drifter who’s better leaving all the past behind
I’ve been thinkin with my head and not my heart
And I’ve learned if you come too close you gotta come apart
And I’ve made one too many starts

And ah, my sister, your color’s growing stronger every day
Like a photograph that’s in my memory,
Funny how you make a child of me

Ah my sister, it’s good to see you after all this time
Passing through my life to brighten up my day
Though we know you’ll soon be on your way
Cause no matter how we try and keep it high
Funny how we make each other cry.

Aah sisters, such a complex subject. I'm the youngest of four children. My brother is the oldest, followed by my two older sisters. The one who is second in the birth order has also done extensive work in therapy (between the two of us we have decades!!) and is one of my closet friends in the world. I really cherish the relationship because she is someone who was also there. She has helped me confirm my memories and really understands when I get triggered.

Then there's my other sister.
We had a difficult time together growing up, we shared a room when we were pretty young. She could be really cruel. But we did start to get along when we got older. One Christmas, I was visiting down at my in-laws, when I got a call from my mother that my sister was leaving her husband and needed somewhere to go, so my husband and I dropped everything, drove five hours and picked up her and her two sons (11 and 13) and took them home with us. We replaced the kids lost Christmas presents (my sister had to leave them behind because she didn't want her husband knowing she was leaving), bought new clothes for my sister. I took several personal days from work to get the kids enrolled in school etc. They lived with us for around three weeks in which my sister insisted on helping out with the laundry, cooking and housekeeping. We told her she didn't have to, but she insisted. At the end of three weeks, she decided to go back to her husband.
My husband and I, especially my husband, had gotten very close to my nephews and tried to stay in touch after they went home. We took them on a trip to Disney World the following year. But all of the contact ran only one way. We did all the calls, all the visits, etc. until finally I gave up just to see what happened. After several years of no contact, the story that my sister told had become that we took her in because we wanted a maid.
I put myself through college, and then spent 10 years paying off the loans I owed when I graduated. and everything my husband and I have, we have earned, but according to this sister (wait for it, Just Me), I'm a spoiled princess who has had everything handed to her, and thinks she is too good for the rest of the family. I finally had to come to terms with the fact that how my sister sees me has NOTHING to do with who I am. We have very little contact, which is fine with me. She has never really dealt with growing up in our family and is one of the MOST angry people I have ever met. Rage is just leaking from everywhere. My favorite however, was when I last saw her at my mother's when I had gone for my step-father's funeral, my sister was also staying at my mothers. While lighting up a joint about every 30 minutes, she told me how much better she was doing because she didn't drink anymore and she was off of anti-depressants. She's just kind of scary. It makes me sad sometimes, because she's my sister and I love her, but I don't think I can have a relationship with her. I'm currently not speaking to my mother (LONG story and how scary is it when I use the work long!) who lives near my sister and I have a lovely mental picture of the two of them sitting together all the time talking about what a terrible person I am. Hmmm, like Just Me, not sure why I said all this. Wanted you both to know you're not alone in having difficult relationships with family.

JM, glad to hear you may be able to have a closer relationship with your sister, I know how much I enjoy my older sister who has also worked through this stuff.

AG

Hey AG; Funny, we're both the youngest too.

Families- *SIGH*

When I went in for my assessment for alcohol counseling I had to fill out (I kid you not) an 8 page (both sides) intake form. I am not a patient person when it comes to redundant paper work. (My T’s intake form: 1 page, 1 side. - I knew she was fabulous right then and there) Anyway, after 55 minutes and several pages of ridiculous questions that often merited the same or more monotonous answers, I was getting annoyed. Finally I came to the question where I refused to go on any further. The question read something like this: “Have you or any of your family members suffered from any of the following? Please check all that apply: Depression, bouts of anger, suicidal thoughts, suicide attempts, personality disorder, alcoholism, drug addiction, verbal abuse, physical abuse, sexual abuse, mental illness requiring hospitalization…when I found myself checking every box I groaned and scribbled next to the question: “ARE YOU KIDDING ME?” Next, while sitting in front of my would be alcohol counselor as he reviewed my biography, he came to that question and said, “I see you checked a lot of these boxes. Do you think that your family might be dysfunctional?” Hey, I can be just as cynical as the next person so after a brief pause of needless reflection I said, “Nah.” Then I wondered silently, ‘How many people from non-dysfunctional families do you see?’ Its like, ‘How many fingers am I holding up?’ I digress.

So as far as a closer relationship with my sister, yea, I’m not holding my breath. The reality is even if I am there, I am not certain that she is. But there are open doors that did not exist before that could be healing for the both of us. She has confirmed some of my memories too and I certainly found that helpful. But anything she says beyond what can be established as fact, I have to take with a grain of salt. Actually I should own stock in a salt mine for all the salt it takes to palate her stories sometimes. One truth about my sister is you never know what truth is. She lives for drama and invents it where it doesn’t exist. But hearing her describe her recent events she has suffered, I was taken in by emotions and a sense of empathy that I feel is well deserved for her: A sense of understanding that only another sibling can offer. “I understand your pain. I know it was tough. It was hard on all of us in different degrees. I come from the same line of baggage and crap that torments all of us that only few of us are really listening to.” Funny how it is we, the youngest two who are where we are. The older three, well, who knows? My two brothers are currently in substance abuse treatment, one inpatient, and the other outpatient. My oldest sister just turned 60 (she’s MUCH older than me ) and I think she is deep in denial and likes it there so well that she bathes in it. (You know, "insert sister's name here land") When conflict arises and she tries to push responsibility onto me, I have learned to set firm boundaries for myself and consequently she is forced to face her own issues. She gets so frustrated that she goes into full drama mode, “My life is just too chaotic to deal with this right now…” Instead of taking whatever she wants me to take on for her I now say, “Yea, my life is chaotic too, so hopefully you will get a chance to handle this situation the best that you can. Buh-bye.” Grrr!!

JM, totally relate to the intake form. I went to a gyn specialist and his intake form was 12 pages both sides! And I can totally relate to your feeling when you hit that list. For my family, it's easier to list what we DON'T have. Sometimes I just want to carry a stamp that says "TOTALLY SCREWED UP" to use on those forms. But coming from an alcohol counseling intake makes it worse. They just seem like they should know better.

It's like a doctor telling me I need to lose weight. I've never had the nerve, but just once, I want to look shocked, and exclaim, what!?! I'm overweight?!!?? 'cause you know, I don't own any mirrors.

Sorry, card carrying member of the National Sarcasm Society (Motto: Like we need your help.)

Glad to hear you can set firm boundaries now, that's a very useful thing. Still working on that one with my mom.

AG

quote:

It's like a doctor telling me I need to lose weight. I've never had the nerve, but just once, I want to look shocked, and exclaim, what!?! I'm overweight?!!?? 'cause you know, I don't own any mirrors.

ROFL! AG, you’re hilarious. Let me know if you ever do that for real and the reaction you get. But do so soon because you won’t have to hear those words much longer the way you’re going with your weight loss. I used to tell the nurse who weighed me every time I went to the doctor’s office that this was nothing more than a sadistic ritual they had.

I also thought of another reply I could’ve made on that form:
Q: “Have you or any of your family members suffered from any of the following? Please check all that apply: Depression, bouts of anger, suicidal thoughts, suicide attempts, personality disorder, alcoholism, drug addiction, verbal abuse, physical abuse, sexual abuse, mental illness requiring hospitalization…
A: You mean BEFORE NOW??

Seriously, by the time I went in to the counselor’s office I was hoping he’d offer me a drink. “I’ll take a gin and squirt.”

National Sarcasm Society : I’m a member too.

Ok, I talked to my sister again last night and between both of our schedules it looks like tomorrow would be the only day to work if we are to meet this week. However, I told her that would also depend on when I could get in to see my Dr. because I have been having some severe back issues lately. My appt. is tomorrow, but I could still manage to meet my sister “half way” at least for a little while, but I am finding it more desirable thinking about coming right home. I am not sure if this is my pain talking or do I want to back out for emotional reasons.

JM,
I've known several people with bad back problems and when they're bad, it really interferes with they're ability to ANYTHING. And you DEFINITELY do not miss Dr. appts. Judging by your earlier posts, I think you were pretty open to this, so I really think it's just a matter of the doctor being a really high priority and rightfully so, since those kinds of back problems can really incapacitate you. So go to the doctor and see your sister if it works out.

AG

Thanks!
I needed that level headed reassurance.
Sometimes it is too easy to complicate simple things.

I happened to talk to my T last night and she was pleasantly surprised that my sister and I were even planning on getting together and she said "I hope that you do. It would be beneficial for both of you and not just your sister who happens to be going through a hard time right now. You both have something to offer and to gain." She is right.-of course.

Part of me does indeed fear my covert expectations of disappointment to manifest. But the reality is that we have met together and mutually enjoyed each other's company many times. Where she has let me down in the past has created a significant neurological pathway, but she also does want to be there for me and be the sister she would like to be. I believe that. Both of us want it, but we've never managed to experience it. Maybe this is a new opportunity to lay the groundwork for a better relationship no matter how slightly that may be. If not, I will still be ok.

JM,
One thing I didn't tell you about my older sister to whom I am very close. When I was little, she behaved almost like a surrogate mom, but she moved out when I was around 13 (she's six years older) and we slowly drifted apart until we were only talking on holidays. She was at my mom's for Thanksgiving one year when I wasn't there and when she got off the phone, she told my mom that she regretted how distant we had become and my mom (who does occasionally manifest wisdom) asked her why didn't she do something about it. I've always been very grateful that my sister decided to take her up on it. She started contacting me, and we were both in a good place for it. But in the beginning we had to talk about some of the painful stuff that had happened between us, especially our part of buying into the family myths about each other. But we were able to hear each other and seek and give forgiveness. It was amazingly healing on a lot of levels and
resulted in a close, supportive relationship.

So I understand the fear, and the screaming, wide neurological pathways (they can be very pesky!) but it can be healed.

This a good place to share the quote I'm cross-stitching for my T:

Everything will be ok in the end.
If it's not ok, it's not the end.

It's not the end yet.

AG

You leave me much to ponder AG! Especially when you said, "But in the beginning we had to talk about some of the painful stuff that had happened between us, especially our part of buying into the family myths about each other." Yea, that is definitely something I want to absorb. WOW! Deep thought.

Thanks for sharing your quote. I like it and would like permission to adopt(with due credit of course)

"Everything will be ok in the end.
If it's not ok, it's not the end."
Magnificient!!!

"But in the beginning we had to talk about some of the painful stuff that had happened between us, especially our part of buying into the family myths about each other."

Funny, but I did the exact opposite! I still have not talked to my sister about why I stopped talking to her for 2 1/2 years and that was 5 yrs ago! I am relieved that she never asked. I guess since she wasn't doing anything different to help herself understand and accept all the things that went wrong between us I figured that trying to explain my actions would just open up a nasty can of worms. I am sure she has a 180 view of things and denies any real wrong doing. Once she said that it was all "just stuff between sisters" like we had fought over a Barbie doll or something.

I envy your relationship with your sister AG. What a gift it is to have someone who shares your past and present and future. And I hope for you JM, that you and your sister will be able to reconcile and be friends.

My sister is a hard-working, fun, energetic, smart, responsible person. We don't argue or nitpick at each other. Our daughters are 5 weeks apart and since she lives only an hour away, my niece will be the closest thing my daughter will have to a sister. It is in both of our best interests to get along. I just don't trust her. She is a ticking time bomb of built up anger and disappointment. Now I know to leave the building and get very far away as soon as I even see a glimpse of that bomb being ready to go off. I won't be the family's sacrificial lamb anymore.

I also refuse to participate in the "triangle." That is when my sister tells my mom something and then mom tells me and then I used to then talk to my sister, etc., etc. I won't do it. If my sis wants to ask or tell me something then she needs to call me. Same for Mom. Of course I still hear stuff, especially my mom always telling me how nice my sister is now and I should be grateful and nice back. Or your sister is disappointed that you didn't call her, you need to call her asap. I try to politely as possible tell mom to butt out. Mom can't get mad though because she has been in therapy and knows how much it as helped me. So, even though she doesn't like that we're are not a perfect family she also doesn't get in my face about my boundaries.

Being with my family is still like walking on eggshells but at least I don't beat myself up about it and bend over backwards trying to keep the peace and make everyone happy. If only I could do this with my husband. Oh well, that is a post for another day. This one is long enough already.

Toodles,