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Okay, I know this is a mental health forum and not a parenting forum, but there are obvious links between the two as we would all attest to Smiler, plus I love the fact that the "culture" of this board is so sensitive to issues of attachment and attunement broadly speaking. Therefore I am posting this here even if it's a little off topic. (But hey, this is coffee talk, why am I worried about that? Never mind, I will let this paragraph stand since I went to the trouble of typing it. Razzer)

One of my friends on facebook is a first time mom. She posted a little story today about how her kid was in her highchair on a stool (it was the kind of chair that straps onto things, not a free standing one obviously) and somehow she tipped over and crashed to the floor, but it was okay because she just hit her head on the back of the highchair seat, but she cried awhile and etc. etc.

Anyway, my friend seemed soooo upset. She said she just held her daughter for a long time and cried and cried, thinking about how bad it could have been.

I am not convinced it could have been all that bad, but I digress. This reminded me of a story T told me about her nine month old rolling off the bed one time, and how she felt guilty and terrified for the longest.

I have three kids, but I've never been like that with any of them, not even the first. They've had their fair share of falls and rolls and tumbles, but normally I just blink, scoop them up, dust them off, kiss their owies, and send them on their merry way after comforting them or applying an ice pack as need be.

I suppose as far as the kids go, that's all they need and maybe a more dramatic reaction would freak them out, but. . . I just don't *feel* those things that other people talk about. I don't get overwhelmed with terror, or guilt, or relief, or whatever. Mildly concerned, mildly relieved, sometimes a little freaked out for awhile, but that's it.

I think I care about my children and I'm a decently good parent, but I have never once cried when they've fallen or even come close.

I don't know. Could this be some manifestation of emotional dissociation and repression? Or is it a personality thing? Or am I a monster?

I'm not writing this so people can make me feel better about myself per se, but more trying to gauge a "normal", figure out if this it a trauma related blocking of feeling or not, and if it's something I ought to be working on.

HIC
(who can be an insecure parent for all her nonchalance)
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(((HIC)))

I think just asking this shows you care. I'm not a parent... sooooo... my response comes with zero qualification BUT Wink I think you're right about them needing a calm reaction. I remember when I had a head injury when I was little - my Mom got hysterical because she hates blood... I was four or so... and left with all these big dr people all alone because everyone else was attending to my Mom. That's extreme but I remember telling my T that.. when you're a kid and your Mom is freaked out... YOU'RE freaked out.

I'm insecure even about my cats... when I babysit I'm convinced the child in my care is going to spontaneously combust or just otherwise be in peril. It could be because you see they are okay... that you're okay. You're not catastrophyzing (ruminating on the worst, the 'could have happened' - which I'm sure you are vigilant of... but don't hang on to because that's not what happened, and certainly not what you planned either) and that's okay!

I'm assuming here that if your kid was in a chair that fell over it's not like you'd turn around slowly from the sink and then go make yourself a sandwich before picking them up, ya know? I have a feeling you'd be pretty responsive... like going to them right away, assessing the situation and freaking out or not freaking out as needed. I'd trust you with my kittens and future kids from the sounds of it.

Not sure if that helps at all... but it's okay to be calm.
quote:
They've had their fair share of falls and rolls and tumbles, but normally I just blink, scoop them up, dust them off, kiss their owies, and send them on their merry way after comforting them or applying an ice pack as need be.


hi hic....In my opinion this is exactly what you should be doing and you have handled it very well in the best and healthy way for your children.

When I was a child and I fell off my bike or fell from running and playing, my mother would get hysterical and would scream or cry or get mad at me. Her reaction would SCARE me and I would end up either consoling her or just taking care of myself without seeking her comfort. So I learned when I got hurt to shun any care and just deal with it alone. I struggle today to accept any care or nurturing from T even when he really tries to provide it for me. I am scared if I take it something bad will happen.

I also stopped taking risks and participating in anything that could result in getting hurt in any way. So I missed out on a lot of kid things, like roller skating, sledding, sports, etc. I only did what I thought (as a little kid) was going to be safe. No I never learned to stretch myself.

Another residual effect is that I really have to make a great effort not to scare my son when he gets hurt because I get so scared. I don't want him to stop doing things and taking calculated risks and enjoying normal kid stuff because of MY fears.

So I think your friend needs to take a page from your book. Take care of the hurt child appropriately and keep your fears and feelings out of it.

Just my experience and opinion.

TN
I think about this a fair bit myself as I don't get mushy or overreact about my kids - whether that be when they get hurt, or when they are over emotional. Once when something life threatening did happen to my youngest I went into shock as I thought he was dead in my arms, i was then on autopilot ie blocked it all out and just functioned etc. It isn't until days, months, years after that I think about it and I freak a fair bit that he could have died.

I think tho - that is then making me react from my trauma/fear of dying/grief of people dying rather than a maternalistic bond. if that makes sense.

I definitely have never cried when one of the kids have fallen off the bed, dislocated things, needed stitches etc etc - I have just got on with it. Sure, gave them some compassion and settled them down but definitely not super emotional. My kids are prone to anxiety so me reacting in an over emotional way would be really bad.

When one of the kids would fall or generally have something bad happen, my husband would scream and absolutely flip out (as his reaction) - and THAT reaction is what would make the kids cry, not that they hurt themselves. Seeing the look on their dad's face was WORSE than the injury. I guess being the main caregiver for so many years trains you to be very steady.

Our first thing is "you are ok" or "you will be right" or "it isn't that bad". Then we calmly assess what has happened .....

SD
Same as the others, I think you have a very sane and healthy reaction.

And same as the others: my mother thought that I would die any time I fell, and was very upset about it, and... now I feel responsible for upsetting people, never showing I am hurt to avoid showing something hurts because I feel responsible for their reactions and I obviously don't want to cause them harm by ... falling.

So, yes, I think that reacting with calm is far from a bad reaction!
((((HIC))))

This is so thought provoking. I'd tend to react more like your friend because of the particular facts of this situation. The fall wasn't caused by a freak of nature. Did I read that right, that she had the highchair on a stool? That sounds nuts to me. If so, IMO, she has some culpability. She could have done a better job securing the high chair. I would NEVER put one of those high chairs on a stool.

That part out of the way, the second part of it is how serious the injury could have been because of her negligence. It doesn't sound like she fell 12 inches. It sounds like she fell more than a couple of feet. What kind of flooring did the child fall on? Carpeting or hard tile? The child could have cracked her skull.

Your friend was probably also identifying with her daughter's inherent dependency on her for safety and her vulnerability because of that.

I have a friend whose 6 month old daughter's head was swollen and she took her to the ER. It turned out she had a fractured skull. The hospital called Child Protective Services, who, of course, did an investigation. The parents are good people who honestly did not know what happened. The best anyone can figure is that the child fell over when sitting and hit her head on the wood floor.

Part of recovering from trauma, IMO, is recognizing when situations ARE serious. We are used to things being really out of whack so that things don't seem odd or unusual to us. But we need to learn to recognize dangerous situations.
(((Catalyst))) (((TN))) (((SD))) (((About)))
(((Liese)))

Thanks all of you for writing and for sharing your thoughts and experiences, which I did find helpful. It does seem like a calmly compassionate response is (generally) what will help a child to feel soothed and secure.

It just bothers me a little that I don't have any trouble staying calm in these kinds of situations. I have a hard time relating to the feelings of terror and overwhelm that other mothers talk about-- although weirdly, those are things I experience sometimes in situations where they are maybe not quite called for. Probably you all remember how distraught I used to get whenever T would cancel or reschedule. Also I have random terrors of being in certain stores, some driving issues, etc. So I've wondered if this isn't partly another manifestation of emotional damage, even while I recognize over reacting and flooding the child with my own feelings wouldn't be great either. (Incidentally, TN, I am sorry you never got to roller skate because of all that Frowner.)

quote:
Part of recovering from trauma, IMO, is recognizing when situations ARE serious. We are used to things being really out of whack so that things don't seem odd or unusual to us. But we need to learn to recognize dangerous situations.


But an objective assessment of danger (which I think I can generally manage to make and take preventitive or reparative action on as the case may be) isn't the same as having that visceral emotional response which in me seems. . . if not absent, at least muffled.

I'm being so open about this here, btw, because I'm trying to drop the instinct towards posturing as a supermom in the interests of trying to learn and improve. If I could do it all over again, I would have done a couple years of therapy *before* having kids, but at this point that's neither here nor there.

quote:
Did I read that right, that she had the highchair on a stool? That sounds nuts to me. If so, IMO, she has some culpability. She could have done a better job securing the high chair. I would NEVER put one of those high chairs on a stool.

That part out of the way, the second part of it is how serious the injury could have been because of her negligence. It doesn't sound like she fell 12 inches. It sounds like she fell more than a couple of feet. What kind of flooring did the child fall on? Carpeting or hard tile? The child could have cracked her skull.


She had the highchair seat strapped to a stool, and the child strapped in the highchair, and the whole thing toppled. It sounds like her head was protected from hitting the floor directly, but I agree the whole arrangement was definitely less than sturdy!
((((HELD))))

If you had the highchair strapped onto a stool and your baby fell over in it, do you think you would feel worse than you normally do when your kids have gotten hurt?

That might be an important distinction. If there are things you have done that were a little careless and the kids got hurt and you didn't FEEL anything, you might want to look into a little more.

Held, you might be having an underreaction. Bessel talked about these. He talked about a car accident victim who felt nothing about the car accident. There is a type of response that is called hypoarousal. Is this what you are talking about? If so, it's definitely worth investigating.
quote:
If there are things you have done that were a little careless and the kids got hurt and you didn't FEEL anything, you might want to look into a little more.

Held, you might be having an underreaction. Bessel talked about these. He talked about a car accident victim who felt nothing about the car accident. There is a type of response that is called hypoarousal. Is this what you are talking about? If so, it's definitely worth in



Once I had a two month old roll off a couch. It's a low couch and there was soft carpeting beneath it, so she was fine, just a little fussy at finding herself face down on the floor.

My "reaction" was to think, "Oh, wow, I guess I shouldn't have put her on the couch. I'm not going to do that anymore." And then I just picked her up and calmed her down.

Another time I had one fall out of a baby swing. Same reaction.

Does this sound like hypoarousal to you? I've never even heard of that. I'll try and do some research. How do you fix it?
(((HELD)))

Maybe I'm being too hard on your friend? I'm talking fromt he point of view of being an experienced Mom. Your couch incident seems more like inexperience than negligence. At 2 months, babies don't move around too much. I would need to know more about the swing incident.

Maybe other people would chalk up your friend's experience to inexperience? IDK, it seems pretty obvious to me but then again, as I said, this is after having four kids.
And I'm far from being the perfect mother and have done my share of stupid things.

But here's a horrible story. Someone, and we don't know who, lit a candle and put it on a bookshelf in this little 3 year old girls bedroom. The Mom read her a story and put her to bed. She went downstairs to wait for her husband who was out with their boys. The book shelf caught fire and eventually the whole bedroom. The smoke alarms didn't go off. A neighbor saw the flames and came running over to the house. The Mom was just downstairs the whole time waiting - never had a clue that her daughter's bedroom was on fire.
I think there can be some overlap between negligence and inexperience. Negligent because inexperienced? And then sometimes we do things that are just plain dumb. The highchair on the stool incident may have been some of all three.

Oh, about the swing. That was with my little boy (the middle child) when he was about seven months old. I set him in the swing for a minute without strapping him in, because I needed my hands free to do something for his big sister. The swing wasn't on. He squirmed a little and slid out of the swing and onto the (linoleum) floor. He wasn't hurt at all, just indignant, but really that was something I coulda/shoulda foreseen. I'm careful to strap them in now even if I'm just setting them down for a minute.

Anyway, I've more been pondering maternal response to minor-but-could-have-been-worse injuries than these incidents in themselves. One could argue degrees of culpability either way, but sometimes things *are* going to happen, and I guess we are all agreed that responses matter.

SD, I can't remember my parents ever taking much notice of incidental childhood injuries either. In fact, I'm glad they weren't too overprotective in that regard because I was a pretty adventurous child and had a lot of fun outside. But maybe it would have been nicer if they had shown a little more concern. I remember when a friend turned her ankle and we had to call her mom to come pick her up. I saw her mom drive up and get out the car. She was driving so fast, and she leapt out the car with a panic stricken face and rushed over to her child. I remember thinking it was odd but feeling a tad envious. I think my mother would have been more likely to stroll over and say, "What happened to your ankle, HIC?" Perhaps I tend to respond similarly.

I'm glad you all are talking this out with me and being nonjudgemental. Smiler

I'm a little late to the conversation but HIC I respond much the same as you when my children have been hurt. Scoop them up, and age what needs to be bandaged, and send them back on their way. I will sometimes at a later point in time have a more emotional reaction. T says this is classic PTSD. I don't always though. I have seen friends of mine that seem way more concerned when their children are hurt and I too wonder if I don't care enough.

Jillann

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