Hi AG .... I definitely don't have any insight .... so I am sorry that I can't help you there .... I can tell you that I am sorry you are feeling so down .....

I also had a couple of questions ... as you know, when I come on the forum, you were ending therapy ... and I can't remember how often you were seeing your T in the end, weekly?? Also, aside from perhaps your husband being angry, would there be a reason not to go back for a checkup?

AG,

You have helped me so much with my own ending in therapy I really wish I had something helpful to say to you but I am struggling so much with pretty much the same grieving process as yourself...of feeling numb...tearful...and angry.

I did want to say though that in answer to your question of whether you should be grieving this strongly...I honestly believe it is only natural...and nine weeks is nothing in comparison to the length of time that you were in therapy with your lovely T so I think it is totally understandable that you would be feeling the loss this strongly.. I am three weeks behind you in the ending and I feel like this most of the time.

I think you have helped people here tremendously in sharing your ending and I don't think by reaching out for some support you could possibly discourage anyone.

I can understand that you feeling meeting with him might hit the reset button...almost like you have to start the grieving process all over again.

I guess I'm not the best person to respond to this...just wanted you to know that I understand where you are coming from and I am really glad that you posted here.

(((((AG)))))

Lots of hugs
Butterfly

I think what you are going through is normal for an ending of a good therapeutic relationship.

I think you are both coping and also feeling the bumpy ride of it. i empathise with the peri menapause as it is throwing me too.

You will feel sad, some days more strongly than others, this was a MOJOR life changing relationship and there will be days when you just want to talk to him and be with him so much. It would be unreal if not.

What you do with those feelings I don't know. Maybe sometimes you make contact, maybe you try not to make contact, whilst of course doing what you have been doing all along, which is take care of yourself and be your own inner kind wise insightful being.

I know you have the insight yourself to answer this one and I also appreciate and am grateful that you reach out to us too whilst it feels a bit confusing.

I send you hugs.

It has probably even changed a little since you posted.

I know some T's forbid any contact for the first year just because the first year can be so bumpy but that does not mean that is the right way to go.

hugs S

AG,
I hope I'm not way off base here and if I am then just ignore my response.
I have had many T's throughout my journey. Some were really good and some were not so good. I can tell you from my own experience I still miss my first T. She was unlike any other person I know. It has been 4 years since I have seen her. (BTW it didn't end on a great note and it was my own fault that it ended.)
I still miss her and think about her. I miss her laugh, her insight and genuine care that she gave me. She helped me so much and she will always have a special place in my heart.
My T now is very good but I still grieve in my own way for my first T.
So, IMO I don't think you can put a time table on grieving for someone especially since your T was so great.
I hope this helps.

PG

Hi A.G., I type with one finger, so if my response seems short and to the point it is because it takes forever to type! One of the reasons I don't comment often. I was in therapy off and on for three years. Terriffic T! Transference to the point of madness! That is how I found this site. During my therapy, I lost suddenly and shockingly, my best friend to brain cancer. In twelve days time she was diagnosed, operated on and died. Just 49 yrs old. I grieved and still do even though she passed away in 2008. I finished therapy in 2009. I don't need to tell you how much I grieved not having my weekly T appointments. I thought I was going to die without seeing my T. It was crushing and consumed my thoughts. One day it occurred to me I am grieving the loss of my T just like I am grieving the loss of my friend. Leaving therapy is like losing your best friend only that 'friend' is still alive and living her life without you. When I realized I needed to accept the loss of therapy and gave myself permission to grieve the loss of therapy I turned the corner. It was a slow turn, but I am making it. When we lose someone to death it takes as much time as it takes to come to peace. That time is shorter for some folks and longer for other folks. Don't beat yourself up that you should be over it. Take as long as A.G. needs to grieve.

AG

I am really sorry that you are feeling so much grief, that's such a painful emotion that can hit like a train from nowhere and hurt for such a long time. My gut feeling FWIW is that what you are going through is sort of to be expected though for several reasons:
1. You were in therapy a long time with him, therefore the loss will seem more acute, especially as you maintained such a strong, open relationship with him.
2. That depression is a natural part of the grieving process, allbeit a really difficult one to experience.
3. That you were so positive after you stopped seeing him and and managed so well, perhaps the reality has only just hit after the initial relief at really being able to manage on your own? I guess that deep seated fear in us all that we won't be able to.....

But AG, you HAVE managed, and managed brilliantly too Not only have you supported your own emotions, but you have supported others here and in your volunteering too. So any 'going back' would not be because of any not coping, because you have proved that you can, but because you have a real need to. And just because you have come sucessfully through a course of therapy doesn't exclude you ever from having other needs What you may find is that you maybe need to go back for a 'top-up' - a confirmation session (or two)that all IS well and what you are feeling is normal for someone in your situation. It certainly would not be a failure, rather an exercise in continuing to look after your own needs maybe.

My only other thought was that if the feelings of depression, weeping and anger are really out of character for you, then maybe there would be no harm in asking his opinion, seeing as he knows you so well anyway. If there is something else underlying such feelings, the the sooner they can be looked at perhaps then the better. This doesn't at all sound like an invention to go back, trust your wise inner judgement AG and forget the doubting voice that will persuade you that you're just being needy, because I don't think you are at all.

I hope that you might realise the right thing to do for you and that these feelings might gradually begin to go. These are only a few thoughts from me, but I am sure others will give you some helpful advice here. Take care AG, big hug,

starfish

((((((AG))))))

Thank you for reaching out to us...I, for one, am honored!
I believe that the level of grief and how long it takes to be able to function through the grief without it consuming us, is directly proportional to how much one has gotten out of the relationship. In other words...this is simply not going to be an easy ride for you AG...you are dealing with all the loss from childhood (because that never eally goes away) and that another has come and filled some of those lost needs in a powerfully effective and loving way...such a grief is painful beyond measure, AG. Even worse maybe, than mourning the loss of a beloved parent...and all the doubts remaining, involved in that, it really is up to you...just remaining. I almost get the sense that all of therapy has been preparing you for this moment you are now in... can you withstand the grief? There is no shame in reaching out to your T, but I sense in you that there is some kind of deeper understanding here, that you don't want to post about. And that is fine, and I think, wise. I'm grappling with it too, in a totally different way, different timetable different set of circmstances and responses... but I really understand how that grief you are in will come in waves, and you are wondering...should I ride these waves, or reach out to my T for help...the answer, of course, is in whether or not you are drowning, or gasping for breath...then you *must* ask. I am kind of surprised, if I am honest, that you haven't taken a few sessions and tapered off more- but that is the way you have seemed to need to do this, and I totally want to support that, because I think I understand it.

Back to the idea, that your grief will be as intense and as long-standing as what it is that you have received...sometimes, I think T's will understand this dynamioc, and encourage us to move on before we may feel ready, to avoid this level of grief for us...but I think your T has understood deeply what you needed, and how strong you are to withstand receiving what you needed- and as you know, the door remains open...so you battle with, what does this open door mean? Should I walk through it yet again? And that is a main part of the grief, I think...that you have the power to contact him. It would almost be an easier grief if you had not such a power. But, the reality is, that you do...and that is neccessary, a part of his care. The care that hurts. It is just not easy...this is a terrible grief, AG. I have no answers for you, only some kind of understanding, and certainly, that I think you should contact if you need to. Such a strange and painful relationship- but neccessary for those of us who have been badly hurt by the parental relationship, I think. You just simply hurt badly right now...and that really is ok, AG, and normal, and also, just awful. I think that the feelings of feeling "not ok" with this much grief, come from a sense of shame at need, and maybe somewhat from your husband who doesn't want you to go running back to therapy, and so on...but, it really is ok, to feel just what you feel for as long as you feel it...even if it be forever, AG. I sincerely hope that the pains you are in will not take that long, though. I'm so sorry for the confusion too...what would your T say? Think...what would he tell you just now.. you are doing it.
Yes, he cares, AG. He still cares, still wonders how you are coping...*of course* he does. Hopefully thoughts like that can help ease the pain a bit.
I'm so inspired to see that you would reach out for support when you need it...it's just not that easy to do under the circumstances, in so many ways...awesome, AG.

I'm finding there is more that I want to say to you, but I can't seem to find the words to say it...so for now, I sign off- and hope I can think the things I want to say into words...

Many comforting hugs...

BB

Dear AG,

that was a beutiful written post. That said: I am so sorry for your grief. i think its very understandable, even though you think or is afraid that it has taken too long. But your theraoy took meny years too, so its a "balance" in it, the way i see it. You sound so amazingly reflected about all this, so it is with a very humble voice i would suggest this... Call your T! Not because you cant handle this,- i think you are fully capable of that. Yet, i do *sense* (please tell me if i am way off here) that you are maybe too proud to allow youself to reach out to your T again. Thats also very understadable (if so). Maybe one of those tools you learned in therapy, - was about allowing yourself to reach out for help- if so; calling your T would be just a "use uf such a tool" in a way, and not a "step back". You wount ever be right back where you was. I know you know all this stuff. And being needy is ok too. The best thing that can happen if you do meet or call your T, is that by telling him about your grief, it will fade again, you would be heard again, and gain new strength, when knowing that he knows. (and probably can anwer your question regard to this, with much better understanding then anyone). Or to just put it very simple AG: When one misses someone alot, it helps hearing their voice. It helps. Its that simple sometimes. Do what helps you AG. It stinks to hear you suffer...at least if its for no "good" reason, and if all you need is a gentle push, so that you would allow yourself to call t or arrange a session *IF* thats what you really want: LET THIS BE THAT PUSH!

btw: i have given one advice here, based on a lot of my own feelings, and maybe i have read into alot of personal stuff here, sorry if so. I am not good at being objective. I am also sure that you manage very well to just ignore any wrong inputs here. I wish you all the best AG, and i think its rather great that you also write about this grief. It makes very good sense that you grief over this great therapy-process, and i mean it sincere: The forum should be honored that you do write honestly about this side of therapy too. Dont ever feel that you have to sensure such stuff here.

All the best AG.

Oh AG - it’s a sign of how strong the feelings you’re experiencing now are, that you seem (uncharacteristically) unsure of yourself at the moment. (((( AG ))))

Other people here have given replies that express so much better than me what I would have said to you - that it’s ONLY been nine weeks which is not long at all especially considering the length of time and depth of your relationship with T, and that there is no reason why you mustn’t see your T - he was (is) after all your secure attachment figure and I can’t see why you shouldn’t allow yourself to ‘touch base’ with him from time to time.

I’m guessing (and please read this as just being my interpretation) that you have a strong need to prove to yourself that you can ‘go it alone’ or even that you feel you should go it alone - and maybe that is compounding your grief?

You’ve worked so hard in therapy, and you’ve carried on working really hard afterwards too - maybe it is time to give yourself a break and some space to go with your feelings?

Hugs to you AG

LL

Dear AG,

I am sorry you are grieving so hard this weekend. There is something I would like to say to you (and this should sound really familiar), and that is: you are being WAY too hard on yourself. Many many hugs are being sent your way. ((((((((((AG))))))))))) And, please...stop hurting our beloved friend AG like that.

But then again, you can hardly expect condemnation from a woman who still grieves over a guy from over 25 years ago (just cried with my T about it this morning, as a matter of fact). So I don't know if I have anything helpful to say...but I just want you to know I care very much and am SO glad you reached out for help. I love all the responses you got so far. I do have some thoughts...but given my obvious problems with the subject in my own life, please feel free to chuck any or all of it as you see fit.

One thing I wanted to say is how much I cringed reading through your post. You really are being very harsh with yourself, I think. I have no advice to speak of...but I would like to ask some questions.

quote:

I’m not so much looking to feel better as to figure out how to handle it.

The reassurance that you are not looking to "feel better" was the first cringer for me. Why wouldn't you be looking to "feel better"? Not in an avoidant or escapist way, but I could hardly see you avoiding or escaping anything. Do you think it is bad to want to feel better? Do you think you do not "deserve" to feel better?

quote:

I am struggling with feeling unsure about whether or not I should still be grieving this strongly. If it’s not unreasonable, then it’s just a matter of allowing the feelings, reaching out for comfort and letting myself move through the grief. But part of me is scared that I shouldn’t be still doing this, I should be getting over it by now. And if I’m stuck I want to know that, so I can take steps to deal with it.

How does one determine whether their grieving is of a "reasonable strength"? Is there such a thing...or is each person's grief exactly what it needs to be, no more, no less? Once it's spent, wouldn't it just be gone? What would "stuck" look like? Does "stuck" look like active grief? Or, conversely, wouldn't it look more like "no grief" where one would expect there to be some grief (as in now, for you)? You speak of "handling" and "dealing with" your grief...as if to wrestle with it, subdue it, bring it under control. How would one do that?

quote:

I also don’t trust myself that I’m not trying to invent an excuse to go back.

What if you ARE "inventing" an excuse to go back? Wouldn't it be important, then, to look at why you're doing that?

Okay, I am done playing devil's advocate.

Now, to switch gears (literally )...there is something else I want to bring up, as we are both believers (and maybe I should say ***trigger warning*** for anyone who might be offended by Christian principles). It is a burning problem I have in my own therapy. It is this: as a believer, it seems that some amount of grief over broken relationships, wherever they happen, is inevitable and maybe even unresolvable this side of heaven...it is at the very heart of the Fall, kind of a reverberation of our broken relationship with God. So, given our worldview, I am wondering if 100% resolution of grief over broken relationships is even possible. And if it isn't...do we need to watch ourselves for when we are setting ourselves up for inevitable disappointment? How do we know when we've gone as far as we can, and when we need to turn to God for the "rest"?

The reason this came up is because I realized this week that I could sum up my grief over the old BF with the phrase "it wasn't supposed to be this way" (strictly emotionally speaking...it is so hard to explain this, but at the same time I'm feeling this way, I KNOW beyond a shadow of a doubt that he married the "right" woman. Just want to make that real clear). Then I realized...if I were to say that to God..."it wasn't supposed to be this way"...then I think, first of all, how many others could say that SO much more loudly...think of parents who lose a child, for just one example...and then...who am I saying that to...the Author of Life, who watched His Eden destroyed by us...I can just feel Him saying to me, "Really, SG...tell Me about it, tell Me how it wasn't supposed to be this way...really, I do happen to know what you are talking about." Now, I want to be real clear here and say what I DON'T mean...I do NOT mean that He's saying my old BF should have been with me instead. That would be way, way too literal and too small of a view besides . What I'm talking about is much more universal...the fact that relationships were created by Him, and were meant to be a source of joy...especially our relationship with Him, but also with each other...never to be broken or manipulative or abusive or deceitful or any of the other self-serving forms we've made them to be. And the brokenness is so self-perpetuating...whose life hasn't been touched by broken relationship upon broken relationship, stretching all the way back through so many generations...but He meant for relationships to be beautiful and right and unbroken...and what I'm trying to say here, is whenever they're broken, maybe because of this, some grief is inevitable, even when the relationship has been "good" like the one with your T...and for that, we can only turn to Him for solace, knowing that He, above anyone and everyone else, understands...and that someday, all will be made right again (according to His definition of "right"...which is infinitely more right than mine ever could be).

I say this because I really get the feeling on some level that you want to believe it is 100% all right that you can't talk to your T anymore...and I really do understand the boundaries and the rules and all that...I know you respect those...and you seem to be trying so earnestly to believe that...but on a spiritual level, he means SO much to you...how can it ever feel 100% "right" to lose someone so important? Or to be denied the opportunity for something more, when the potential obviously exists? I just think this pain must be excruciating, AG...and for good reason...so I just want to urge you to go easy on yourself...I know you have the strength and the courage to go on without your T...but I really don't think it is entirely "supposed to be this way"...so I'm wondering if some prayer might also be in order...I know I'm doing some of that myself.

Great big hugs to you AG,
SG

Dear AG,

(((((((((AG)))))))))

I have kinda good news for you: I pulled out my grievometer, tapped "63 days" into the TIME box and "maximum" into the SIGNIFICANCE box, and after clicking and whirring for a few seconds it flashed up in green, "STRONG GRIEF COMPLETELY REASONABLE AND LIKELY".

Well, the grievometer is faaaairly dependable, and in this instance I happen to agree with it. I don't mean to make light of your pain here. In all seriousness, this man played a huge role in helping you become who you are. Who would anyone be to deny you permission to feel the way you feel in letting go of that relationship - one of the most significant of your life? I want to shove the rusty old machine back under the bed and say you don't need it. You don't need the permission for the fullness of your experience.

I have another question for you, though - what is your grief asking of you? What do you need to be able to go into these feelings and live them, rather than to feel stuck with them? Where does the path turn from here?

Sending love and gentle care.

Jones

Oh ((AG))
It's has all been said in earlier posts and this time backed up by science, well Jones' 'grievometer!! Very creative Jones AG, THESE ARE TOTALLY REASONABLE FEELINGS that were always going to surface given the length and depth of your relationship!! I'd be a little concerned if you could just walk away!! You'll decide whether or not to make contact with him briefly or otherwise (and you'd never go back to the beginning - you're far too healed for that) but in the meantime, remember to accept the pain and breathe into it!!
Do be more gentle with yourself
Morgs

((((((((((psychcafe members)))))))))))))

Thank you all so very much from the bottom of my heart. Your insightful, supportive loving replies touched me so deeply (ok, y'all really didn't help with the crying part. ) and helped so much. I am really touched by how thoughtful everyone was. And I so appreciate all the hugs, which I can never get enough of.

I want to address what each person said, but before I do, I just wanted to thank SG for her prayers which it turned out were very effective. Near the end of my day at work, I was reading through all the replies and was seriously considering calling my T when I checked my email. To my shock, there was an email from him in my inbox. I had emailed him nine days ago, but had not asked for a response, nor did what I say require one, so I had not expected to hear back from him. I'm not sure why it took so long but he replied today. It was immensely comforting to know that he was writing to me and thinking of me as I was sitting there thinking about calling him. I'm not a big believer in coincidence so I'm going to go with SG's prayers as an explanation.

((((((Butterfly))))))) Thank you for saying I've helped you through your own ending, that was lovely to know. But please know that I found what you said really helpful. You really validated the fact that I am having really strong feelings about this. And you provided that wonderful example of someone else doing what I'm doing and I know that NO WAY do I think you should be over your feelings! It highlights that lovely double standard in which we are often much more understanding and compassionate with other people. Thank you for being open about your struggles.

quote:

I can understand that you feeling meeting with him might hit the reset button...almost like you have to start the grieving process all over again.

This is EXACTLY it, thank you for understanding! I don't want to have to start over. I am so sorry that you understand this from the inside out, but grateful that you extended that understanding to me. And thank you for the encouragement about posting, I feel better hearing that.

Please take good care of yourself and reach out here when you need help. (I am happy to say it really does help!)


Sheychen,
I really appreciate you normalizing my reactions and the reminder that these are emotions that will continue to change and to come and go. If there's one thing my T did a good job teaching me was to not fear that flow. I also appreciate the reminder that there all kinds of options available to me and that different ones are useful at different times. It's like getting permission to just be, and see what comes. Thank you. And thank heaven my T isn't one who forbids contact, I probably would NEVER have left.

Preppie Girl,
You weren't off base at all. I appreciate the reminder that losses fade but never entirely go away. I know I can still miss my first T at times and she also has a special place in my heart. As does my T who I just left. And you're right, there is no time table. I have grieved enough times to know better. I think part of what is confusing me is that it was a GOOD ending. It wasn't untimely, there was time to say all that was in my heart, and there was love on both sides. So somehow I'm not supposed to grieve. And then I read what I just wrote and think how could I not grieve. Thank you for your validation, it really helped.

Tuesday@11
Thank you so much for putting in the effort to support me. I am so sorry about your friend, I know how very difficult it is to handle that kind of sudden loss. Five years ago, one of my dearest friends, who was a second mother to my children, died quite suddenly of a heart attack. It has been difficult loss for my whole family. We lost my dearly beloved MIL three years ago, and I feel further along dealing with my loss of her than I do my friend. I still miss her. I loved what you said about giving myself permission to to accept and feel the loss. I think I have been denying that what I am experincing IS a loss. It's funny, my biggest problem never seems to actually be my feelings but the fact that I fight against having them at all.

quote:

Take as long as A.G. needs to grieve.

Thank you for this and for using one of your rare posts to help me out. I hope you also find solace for your losses.

quote:

Be gentle with yourself and hold onto all those good memories. I'm also thinking you've had a really, really busy fall...really, since you left therapy. I wonder how much time you've taken to really stop and feel it all?

BG,
Reading this was like having a 200 watt light bulb go off (or to paraphrase LL having the nickel drop. ). I honestly hadn't thought of this but man, did it hit home. My husband's job requires him to work around five to six weeks each year of really horrible hours (6 days a week/14 hour days) and we've been doing this long enough to know that there's this weird rebound at the end when you return to the normal schedule and all the stuff you've been putting off rears its head. We especially experience this around housekeeping. I've just come off the OT, at least until January which is the new release date and my husband and I realized that we were hitting this about the house now that I'm back on a normal schedule. And you're right, I have been so focused on work, which since the material I work on is highly technical allows me to be very left-brained. Which has probably been a relief honestly. Part of what was bothering me was that it suddenly felt like the intensity was ramping up and this explains it. Thank you, this insight really helped reduce the sense of pressure and the "what IS wrong with me?"

Starfish
Thank you for your very clear list of validation for my feelings. I especially liked your #3 and thought it was SO insightful. I think I was so shocked and relieved that I was actually coping on my own and didn't crash, burn and die immediately that it did stave off the grief. And I know that you can't avoid walking through grief, you can only delay it (what was my therapy after all, but facing the grief I had avoided for 40 years?). You're also correct about depression being a stage of grief, that had crossed my mind.

And thank you for the encouragement and reminding me of what I have accomplished. Grief makes me lose sight of what I AM doing. You kind of remind me of my therapist. I also appreciate the reminder that I can trust my judgement.

BB,

Thank you for being so affirming of my asking for support (actually you all have thank you!!)

quote:

I believe that the level of grief and how long it takes to be able to function through the grief without it consuming us, is directly proportional to how much one has gotten out of the relationship. In other words...this is simply not going to be an easy ride for you AG...you are dealing with all the loss from childhood (because that never eally goes away) and that another has come and filled some of those lost needs in a powerfully effective and loving way...such a grief is painful beyond measure, AG. Even worse maybe, than mourning the loss of a beloved parent...and all the doubts remaining, involved in that, it really is up to you...just remaining.

When you put it that way, it makes total sense this still hurting so much. You have a gift for accepting, in the best way, a place of suffering. I really do believe that when suffering is accepted and not fought against (and by that I don't mean suffering for suffering's sake, but the inevitable suffering which is an integral part of life that none of us can completely avoid) it has so much to teach us. I think that's the deeper understanding you referred to. It's not something I'm refraining from saying, it's just that its a deep inchoate instinct that I am where I need to be. I appreciate you seeing that in me and bringing it to light. It really helps.

quote:

so you battle with, what does this open door mean? Should I walk through it yet again? And that is a main part of the grief, I think...that you have the power to contact him. It would almost be an easier grief if you had not such a power. But, the reality is, that you do...and that is neccessary, a part of his care. The care that hurts. It is just not easy...this is a terrible grief, AG. I have no answers for you, only some kind of understanding, and certainly, that I think you should contact if you need to. Such a strange and painful relationship- but neccessary for those of us who have been badly hurt by the parental relationship, I think.

Beebs, this is SO true, I was on the phone with a close friend today and actually talked about this. That its like every day I have to make the decision to leave my T again. But you're also right that its a necessary part of his care. That knowing he is there is such a large part of what sustains me and allows me to face this grief. You are very wise you know.

quote:

Yes, he cares, AG. He still cares, still wonders how you are coping...*of course* he does. Hopefully thoughts like that can help ease the pain a bit.

Thank you for this, never have I so badly wanted you to be right.

Frog,
Thank you for being so clear that it's ok for me to reach out to my T. You were actually the reason I was about to call when I got the email. I appreciate the reminder that simply hearing his voice can make such a difference, I experienced it so many times while working with him. And the accompanying feeling of "why did it take me so long to call" when I felt the relief it brought. I promise I will keep this in mind in the coming days. Thank you for that very gentle push.

And I really appreciate you saying that it's good to hear about all of my experience Frog, it helps me put to rest the fear that I'll hurt others when I write about this. And your well wishing means a lot!

Lamplighter,
I love that you see me as characteristically sure of myself.

quote:

there is no reason why you mustn’t see your T - he was (is) after all your secure attachment figure and I can’t see why you shouldn’t allow yourself to ‘touch base’ with him from time to time.

When you put it that way, LL, it just sounds SO reasonable, I like the way you think! And I am really thinking about what you said about the need to "go it alone." That is such a deep-seated, wrong belief stemming from having no one to rely on when I was a child that may be cropping up again. And you're right, it would compound the grief. I will give myself credit however, for at least posting here. One baby step at a time. Thanks LL.

SG,
Thank you for so lovingly handing me back so many of my own words. And I had to laugh at myself that when I read "you can hardly expect condemnation from a woman who still grieves over a guy from over 25 years ago" and thought indignantly "that's perfectly understandable, there's NOTHING wrong with that." I guess I'm going to have to do as I say, and extend the same compassion and understanding to myself that I extend to others.

quote:

One thing I wanted to say is how much I cringed reading through your post. You really are being very harsh with yourself, I think.

I honestly didn't realize this SG, but trust that you are seeing it and it makes me pause.

"I’m not so much looking to feel better as to figure out how to handle it." This wasn't quite as bad as it sounded. I just know how comforting and supportive you all can be and I was really looking for insight as to whether it seemed problematic that I was still grieving so intensely (no one needs to worry, I heard LOUD and CLEAR, bless you all, that no one sees this as a problem at this point). Of course I'm looking to feel better. But I also know that if this is necessary greiving, and I know it is, there are times where it won't feel good. But I take your point.

And I really appreciate your reminder of living in a fallen world SG. I needed it. The truth is that I know so much of what is "wrong" about the theraputic relationship is the result of living in a fallen world. It is very wrong that I can't know my T outside of therapy. Necessary, but still wrong. I actually remember when my T told me know about the hug being angry about the abuse all over again because one of the consequences was that there was a possibility that getting a hug from my T could be harmful! We are strangers in a strange land and expecting we will ever be completely content here is a recipe for disappointment. It is also a timely reminder to me of a hope I hold dear, that beyond death there is a place where there is no sin, and all sorrow has passed away. If I am blessed enough to meet my T there, nothing will stand between us anymore and I will be able to fully know him. Alongside my hope that I will meet my father there and finally have the loving relationship with him I have always longed for. Come to think of it, there the same hope, aren't they? Thank you for turning my eyes upward, and for your prayers. ((((SG))))))

Jones,
You are awesome! The grievometer totally cracked me up and was a wonderful, loving way to make your point, thank you. Followed by the reminder that I need no permission to have my feelings. They're mine and I'm entitled to them. Have you been talking to my T?

And I loved the question what is my grief asking of me? I don't have an answer yet, but I think it's a very valuable thought to dwell on. Thank you. ((((Jones)))))

Morgs,
Thanks for all the validation but especially the reminder to breathe. Something my T often told me to do. Hearing that brought so much of comfort and care to the foreground for me, thank you.

And I promise to try and be more gentle with myself.

Oh dear, I just looked at the clock, I need to get to bed. I am so hoping I didn't cross post with anyone!

Thank you all so much again, I am really overwhelmed at all your responses and support and have no words to express just how much you have helped. You guys are just the very best!

love and many, many grateful hugs,

AG

Ooops, one more thing I wanted to say about the fact that having the ability to get in touch can sometimes make it harder. I am painfully aware of so many of you who have had terrible endings with your Ts and how much you would give to have that option. I just wanted to make it clear that although the feelings I talked about are true, I do not take it for granted nor fail to appreciate that I still have that open door. I would in no way want to convey that I think it's easier to NOT have that.

AG

Just wondering how things are feeling now? Have you made any decisions to contact T again? I can see how having that open door policy might make it harder for you - it throws all the choices back into your court again doesn't it? So if he said 'no contact' you'd be very sad but also know that there was no possibilty of further sessions...if you had a follow up date in 6 months say, then you'd feel that you at least had something in the future; but your way means you have to make that decision for yourself and fight all those inner voices that persuade you one way or the other.

I think instinctively you WILL know what the right thng to do is, I hope some of the sadness lifts though for you, wahtever you decide,

starfish

((((DF))))

Offering your support is insightful. Thank you for being so affirming about my feelings. And recognizing I have the best T on the planet. I mean, I know I felt that way, but I don't expect other people to agree with me.

I'm sorry you're terminating with your DBT T, and especially losing her communication policy, I know that was so important for me to have that in between sessions. And I really feel for you having to go back to her office but not to see you. It was a huge relief for me that my husband was willing to stop our couples' sessions when I stopped my individual ones.

So I hope you can hang in there too.

Hi Starfish,
Thank you for asking. I am feeling a lot. Sadness, hurt, anger, gratitude, joy, wonder, loss. Kind of a full spectrum. I really do think that all the overtime and being focused at work allowed me to stay pretty shut down. The company I work for makes highly technical software and one of the reasons they hired me was that doing the documentation for our software almost requires an Engineering background. So when I am really immersed in work, I am also very immersed in my left brain. So it was a very effective use of the shock stage of grief.

Everyone’s clear affirmation and support have allowed me both to see my need for grieving and to give myself permission to do so. So honestly, I’ve been pretty sad and doing a lot of weeping. It’s bittersweet because the loss of seeing my T is so interwoven with the recognition and gratitude for what he has given me. I had a phone shift last night and that always brings my T so close because so much of what I’m doing and even at times, what I need to say, comes directly out of my relationship with him. So it simultaneously brings him closer and makes me miss him more.

Grief is a process I believe where you have to let go of how your relationship was with a person. That you really are losing them in a very real sense. But once you let go of how it used to be, you form a new way of going onward with them. That has been my experience with losing my MIL. I deeply mourned her and I will always miss her, but she is part of me and now when I think of her it’s with a smile for so many wonderful moments we shared and her gifts to me. So my relationship with her has changed but it’s still very real and connected and part of me. I am learning to let go of my T now, so that I can get him back again. So though it hurts, I know that the pain doesn’t define our relationship nor does it come close to being the most important part of it.

But I am sad, and think I will be for a little while.

I haven’t contacted him, because getting that email really helped. Just to know that he was thinking of me when I was so struggling with missing him helped alot. But part of letting my feelings in has been to realize that I am very homesick, and I long to hear his voice. And I know how I felt when my daughter would call home from school homesick, that it’s really ok to call my T and tell him that I’m homesick. I’m not calling this week because he is usually on vacation this week, so I’m waiting until next week. But I have definitely decided if I still feel this way, I will call him on Monday. He reassured me so many times that its ok to call, that he’s more than capable of letting me know if it becomes a problem, so I’m going to chose to trust him one more time.

Funny you mention the six months. I’m not ready to face the thought of not seeing him again and it just so happens that my birthday falls very close to the six month mark so as my birthday present to myself I’m going to make an appointment so I can check in. I figure if I get there and feel like I don’t need it, then I don’t need to make it, but in the meantime, it really helps to feel like the option is there.

Thanks again for asking, I do so have a tendency to hide when I’m feeling needy, and its really helpful to be able to come here and talk about it. I also really appreciate your trust in my ability to make the right decisions, it really helps. ((((Starfish))))

AG

AG, That sounds terrific. Sometimes just the thought that something is inaccessible makes the pain that much greater. And when we give ourselves permission to reach out for that which we need, I often find anyway, that I didn't really need a lot. I guess my need scares me more than what it is I'm actually asking for ..... and it makes the problem and the pain so much more intense. I'm so glad you worked this through and it sounds like you've given yourself a wonderful birthday present. I love how you call it homesick. That's such an appropriate way to say it.

AG,

I don't have anything more lovely or insightful to add than everyone else here has already done, but I wanted to say that I've been reading your thread and have been thinking of you. I'm pleased to read that your T emailed you, great timing! Anyway, I'm sorry I've been MIA and haven't responded earlier.

I love the idea of your birthday present. Great idea!!

Hi AG
Wonderful about your T's email - has the 'shimmer' returned just a little? Give yourself time to gently work though this now that your work OT pressure has reduced. Love the birthday gift idea
Morgs

STRM,
You are absolutely NOT allowed to apologize as you have done nothing wrong. I know what you're dealing with. And I'm glad you liked my birthday present.

Hi Morgs,
Thanks, the shimmer is hanging in there. And I am giving myself time, this thread really helped me to stop fighting and just let the feelings come. Not the most fun I've even had, but there's an underlying sense that I will be fine. Thanks for the encouragement.

AG