Hi there, this is a good question and evokes such a strong emotional reaction in me. You know, I've gotten to know each of you that I just can't imagine what it would be like to bar any of you from speaking. It'd be inhumane. I mean, how could you heal if you couldn't speak? Part of the healing is learning to speak one's truth.

I'm tempted to think that you might have read something that brought this question up for you. So let me be as straight forward as I can.

As I may have mentioned before on this forum...I am not expert in these matters-- there are few people who are. I know I've been in conversation with a couple therapists who think that different "parts" can't be "integrated" otherwise (ie. "parts" should not be encouraged to speak to help the "integration" process). Neither of these therapists had any experience in this area, nor any understanding of the neurobiology of how we develop selves in any human being.

And, since the therapeutic community is only now opening up to the reality of different parts within one host, we actually have not much experience to go on.

And what if these therapists are wrong...which I think they are...how many people would suffer from a decision like this based on such little evidence and rash decision-making.

So if you did come across some written work in that direction, please don't take it to heart.

All the best,

Shrinklady

I've heard different things but most in Psych seem to feel that people need to be integrated.... however my understanding is that talking to insiders. .that is the therapist doing so is necessary to even get the memories to 'expose' them to the host to even begin the idea of integration...

yet i know and have heard of therapist who won't speak to anyone but the host.

I always wondewr where all of these ideas come from? I mean... gee, someone finally decided to change the name of the disorder and whose to say what should and shouldnt be done as Shrinklady says. I so agree with that.. just cause some say its not good.. doesnt mean thats true. SO muich in life used to be bad is good now and the opposite as well!!!

It seems that in the books on people who have written about their expereicne with DID... it seems that some have a sucfessful joint integration and some dont... some do it fully.. others dont.. and it seems to me what SHOULD matter is the best functioning of the individual person.

I know with PTSD for instance.... my therapist used to try and help me stay present and grounded because of course, that is the way one is able to process and integrate trauma and yet acknowledgeing that dissociation has served great purposes in survivial.

I just wonder how can they seek to understand how to integrate what one's entire life has been with.. that is in levels of dissociation and when all brought back together, what is there left since ones childhood was never expereinced or happened so its like okay you have integrated memmories and maybe not so many people inside but than what?

this is the thing I even struggle with in terms of my PTSD and dissociative issues without having alters is how do i retrieve and gain back all of what I have lost that Im supposed to know but dont know because I never had the normal typical life in the first place!!

okay.. enough of my rant.. lol

Well said Butterfly...yes, the answer does seem to be what's best for the overall functioning of the individual.

I was also remembering that in my practice many people easily revert to child states...some of which are stronger states than others...where does the line get drawn that this is or isn't an insider...maybe like other issues related to how our brain works, the answer lies somewhere on a continuum. More experienced therapists might be able to answer this for me but I wonder, if that is the case, can we really be justified in making such hard and fast rules.

There's so much we don't know.

Shrinklady

interesting comments! it was actually a discussion i had with our T that prompted this question (the 'little' was overhearing and rather upset) and there is always a question of who is or isn't an insider! even in our system... odd as that may sound... but there are what we call 'fragments'. basically a part without much conscious (awareness i mean... i always mix up conscious with conscience!) i'd like to see a scan of peoples brain during different ones being out, does the brain look different if a male adult is out from when a female adult is out, for example. i'd think so! my T often says i'm such a 'male' (i think because i keep asking her to just fix me!) more later... need to get the kiddies off to school here! lol
Scott

hello, I am Samantha Lyn, i am 14, people call me Samy. Samy with only one 'm' otherwise i could spontaneously combust. So please, if you are going to talks to me, say it wth only one 'm'. I have OCD tendencies. That means not all the way with OCD but some. such as my neighbour got a new car and i think I handled it ok without much upset. So I guess I going better. The thing is, our therapist, who I do love a lot, but perhaps you isn't supposed to love your therapist, but that's another story ok. Anyhow, her talks to each of us insiders, as we calls them, like we are each individual peoples, which we is. Only her wouldn't tell this to her colleagues, like the others therapists her groups with I suppose, because them disagree with talking to the insiders but would only talks to the host (how do you determine the host anyhow, I mean, the body was like 3 months when the first insider were borned!) This rather upset me, because like where is her backbone? How is DID and us multiples going to get through to people about us like as individuals if our own therapists don't stick up for that idea? So, here's the real question for you all here. Would you stick up for the idea of talking to the insiders, or would you just not push it with your colleagues? I think it's worth the fight, but the husband here says sometimes people go not saying things for them don't want a fight, or if them is the only one thinking a way they don't want to get into it. But in the long run, how does that help people with DID? Ok, maybe you think I am too young to be writing here. Shrinklady, you can say that, and you can delete this post if you wants to. Only don't boot scott and the others from posting just because of me ok? Also, why do people call us 'littles'. That's a stupid term! Really, do you call outside real life kids littles? what is the age for being a 'little' or a 'big'? So, there is the real question. Thanks for reading.
samy

I have been silent for quite some time.....specifically when it comes to "DID"....However, I shall remain silent no longer......I want to voice my thoughts.....

"the body was 3 months when the first insider was born"???? Come on, a 3-month old body could NEVER recall such a thing....and also, if you are going with this belief, perhaps you mean the MIND rather than the body.....You were born with one body and one mind.....not a series of different bodies and/or minds......Research supports integration of all of the identies, I can see how you "T" would want to remain silent!!!!!!!!!!!!

A strong evidence-based supporter of integration
S

Hi Sarah, good to hear from you.

Actually there is no solid evidence either way. There is so little that they can go on, final conclusions are too premature at this point.

The brain actually has a memory even in the womb. It's the body sense memory...so a 3-month birth of an insider is quite possible. The hippocampus comes on line around two. This is the memory we are familiar with...like facts, figures and events. However, it can come online earlier from trauma...not good news.

So, no clear answers...which is often why a "T" can't say one way or another on issues related to this subject..we just don't know.

It's also interesting to know that there is no one "self" in the brain for any human being. We are actually made up of many selves. Makes you think.

Shrinklady
P.S. Have you guys seen that movie I posted about on the home page? Now, that really adds to a level of complexity.

well, you don't got to believe me, but the body has feeling even from the begining. and the body was abused at earliest 3 months. and we know this for a fact actually, only not the exact date, but does it matter if it were 3 months or 2 months of age? of course the memory isn't like what is typical cuz there are no words, but there are sights and smells and sounds and feelings. and these are accessible actually.

and, for the record, my therapist DONT want us at all to be quiet! actually she thinks the opposite. which is why i was rather upset with her to not stick up for us in talking to others, but actually i got that wrong also. apparently her disagreed with someone and they rather agreed to disagree.

i does agree that we all born with one body. unless suppose you a simese twin and has two bodies. but perhaps we not all have only only one mind. what makes a 'mind' anyhow? thoughts? feelings? memories? i have each of those, and a body i share with others. how does a person decide that i'm not a 'person' if i have each of those? (which is what you seem to suggest, that i'm not actually a person)

how do you suggest integration happens? do i just hide? do i just be quiet?

what is the 'strong evidence' that you have? is it personal experience? is it something you read? is it something somone told you?

i'm very curious why you have so strong feelings on this topic. you is entitled to your opinion, as we all is, but i wonder why you is sounding so very upset?

perhaps i sound upset also. and it's because i am who i am, and you for one don't seem to want to accept that.

samy
(a voice to be heard)

What I am aware of is that you say you are 14 years of age yet you speak/write from the perspective of both someone who may be 3 years of age juxtaposed/interwoven with someone much older than 14 years of age.....Have you ever given thought to that? I sense that your physical being is much older than 14? I am sorry but a being 2 or 3 months cannot have the memories that you speak/write of.......impossible.....perhaps you are wanting those type of memories to validate the abuse that you had......I am most certain if you did a literature search you would see that evidence supports integration.....these identities are your coping mechanism...plain and simple....the sooner that you realize this the sooner you feel heal your true physical/mental/spiritual being.....we all have traumas.....and there comes a time when we must simply let go....and move forward......I am not upset or angry at all....just presenting another perspective for you to explore!!!

S

ps
Shrinklady:

I am not sure where you have done your lit searches, but I have found a substantial amount of literature to support integration....sorry to have to present the other side....I am sure it does not fit well with this website...but the question was asked and so rather than sit silent (a familiar place for me), I spoke my truth.....

s

"What I am aware of is that you say you are 14 years of age yet you speak/write from the perspective of both someone who may be 3 years of age juxtaposed/interwoven with someone much older than 14 years of age.....Have you ever given thought to that?"

I don't actually know what this means. I am 14 years old, as I said, and the body is 43 years old. I don't know what you saying about someone 3 years old though. And obviously, my perspective is of being 14! I guess I'm interwoven with a 43 year old lady in one sense. I like the word interwoven actually, cuz it also means the threads are separate.

"I sense that your physical being is much older than 14? I am sorry but a being 2 or 3 months cannot have the memories that you speak/write of.......impossible.....perhaps you are wanting those type of memories to validate the abuse that you had......"

I didn't think you'd believe the memories I have of being that young. But it's truth. I don't need memories of thata ge to validate abuse actually, I have memories of different ages for that! too many in fact.

"I am most certain if you did a literature search you would see that evidence supports integration....."

You never answered how I was to integrate... shal I just be quiet? Go away? or what? what kinda literature research you thinking? I can send you to websites if you like! (is that literature research?)

"these identities are your coping mechanism...plain and simple....the sooner that you realize this the sooner you feel heal your true physical/mental/spiritual being...."

It sounds like this is directed at the host person not me but I'll pass it on ok?


".we all have traumas.....and there comes a time when we must simply let go....and move forward......"

How do you move forward with your own traumas? Do You talk about them? Do you feel them? Think about them? Colour or build about them?

Tell me... and I'll tell you what I do...

"I am not upset or angry at all....just presenting another perspective for you to explore!!!"

You perspective isn't making much sense for me yet. You keep talking about intergration without explaining how or what that means to you.

samy

oh, and I don't think Shrinklady ever said nothing about intergration. In fact, neither have I for that matter!

samy

one more thing HAHA! have you, any of you i suppose, ever met a multiple (DID person) in like real life?

samy

Hi Sarah, you are absolutely free to express your views. Discussions are healthy especially when folks are respectful of each other.

Shrinklady

The APA supports Integration based on theories in psychology however there is no research that has studied among groups of people with DID if this is the right or wrong approach. First off, everyone varries and second, so many people with DID have been abused by the system that theyu wont particpate in research in the first palce.

I do know that brain scans have been done of people with DID and those that have been done have shown different type of functioning with doing fMRI (functional MRI) between different personality states. Besides, I think when yuou meet someone with DID in person, you begin to truly understand the essensce of one's existance in different areas of being.

Research is in a stage of mental retardation when it comes to undrstanding the brain. When I took Psychology of Personality, there is SOO LITTLE that is undestood about typical personaly function. we don't even und4rstand why serial killers exist and why they can't be rehabilitated. Pedophilles have a bettere rehabilitation rate than seriel killers do so hwo can we even begin to understand the complexities of early complex developmental trauma from early childhood on???

It always baffles me how much psych/science insists on knowing or not knowing about a disorder yet they can't explain or even understand the effects of trauma on people. They can tell us that there os damage to the cerebellum and increased activation to the amygdala.. and that there are so many of this or that type of psychologucal sequaualie such as mood disorderrs, anxiety disorders, borderline persoinality disorder, eating disorders blah blah but like I said at the conclusion of one paper that I wrote on PTSD.... no matter the existance of physical brain damage as shown on fMRI or PET scans the consequences are the same.. that is similar psychiatric malfunctions and destroying of ones very being into fragments.... even if they are whole or not whole... whats the point and who cares???

Why are abusers allowed so much leadway to fight. I mean.. gee, if we say we have been abused than they fight our therapist and asy they created the memory, If we hav DID, than our therapist gave it to us? If we have eating disorders and self injry issues than its all our fault that we do these things to ourselves...

While I appreciate having other peoples perspectiove and opions the one thing that REALLY hurts and bothers me about Sarah's statement was about /// somnething like ''' we just need to get over it and move on with our lives???""" WOWOWOWOWOWO... maybe that is a solution for YOU but that isnt for everyone. You know my abusive dad said that to me. He said "the past is the past".. we can move on now yet he came aftet me with a cleaver and tried to kill me and he physically abused me and kidnapped me and locked me out of the house and I was 12 years old yhet Im supposed to just 'move on'. See, thats the thing.. I CAN"T move on because I suffered severely after I was 'safe' from PTSD and dissociation because my mind couldnt deal with it. I have major issuws with memory and trust and all sorts of problems and Im still dealing with it at my age of 30 so there is no such thing sa moving on at all times or just accepting it.

Even without DID, there is such a thing as integrating one's traumas.... I don't even undestand how this is fully done because I haven't yet been able to do it. I think I'm right now feeling floaty because im so afffected by the topic.

My friend Dena who suffered from DID went through satanic ritual abuse in a preschool she was in. she would hide in her room during holloween and was a scared child personality. Self or other.. whatever yuou wish to call is based on literature..... she was shaking and needed to be soothed and hugged like a child. In her adult self, she could never deal with raw chicken and had many fears that she left unspoken. She was sexually abused by her father and his friends from early childhood and she did nto remember any of this until she was pat the age if 18 when insiders began to talk to her. She first had revealtef to her abuse she saw of others and it wasnt until she got married that she begin to have other memories. She had piolyfragmented DID..... she had integrated hundres of alters and pieces but guess what..... in the end even after `11 years of therapy, she was never fully integrated.... because its along arduopus process... its not simplyu.. just 'accepting it and leeting it go'. She was bbeautiful, spiurtual loving and caring but she couldnt simmply 'put it behind her. Still in the end, wit major triggers with her mom and brother around nad holooweeen and so much else happening, a bad bad unsafe alter came out who was unworkable with in therapy and took their lives right oofff a bridge......

So i dont know how one can decided that based on some research thats based on Theroies in psychology that integration is the only answer when that doesnt have to be the case. There used to be 'research' saying Jews were inferior and than 'research' that claimed blacks were inferioir and we know where that has gotten us. We had research that allowed the Tuskgekke syphillus 'experinment' take place. We had the research that whats his name did.. the Prison expereiments that turned into outright abuse and has affected those memebers to this very day and the reason why we have such strict ethics and IRB boards now. Research is never always right and always has to change their view on things.

I can't see how therapyu can be done withoutr even talking to insiders in the first place because how else are you going to get the memories. Its like me... I have lots of loss of memory but I have no insiders that hold them for me so taling to me is useless most itmes becuas ei odnt rememeber a lot of stuff. It makes sense to talk to insiders but i can see why a therapist might not want to own up to their view point with a bunch of colleuges who might fight and bite them. Maybne that is something she has to work out in her own process and is something that people like Dr Cameron West (First Person Plaural) a psychologist with DID who did a joint functional integeation will be able to help inform the world. I think its terrific to have a therapist in the first place that can relate and try to work with you all for where you are at even if she deosnt stand up for whats going on outside in the 'professional world' that is everchanging anyways.

I know i had more to say but its lost att hought and in rage and anger and feeling like im having to defend the abused!! Again i dont mind opinions but dont ever tell me to just 'get over it' and move on! grrrrrrrrr

I guess my thoughts are simply not worthy of being heard....

s

Thanks, BW, for your comments! You are a very intellegent and learned person.

Thanks, Shrinklady, for accepting us as us! And letting Samy speak her piece.

Sarah, Samy offered up a lot of questions and you didn't respond to any of them. For a 14 year old, I think she's handling this very well! (cheers to Samy) You often seem to go to 'my thoughts are not worthy of being heard' and I'm never sure why! You have as much right as everyone else to express opinions. however, this is supposed to be a supportive place, not a place for arguing.

If you have some research, literature, or answers to Samy's questions... I think that's be super.

Scott

I'm going to throw in my two cents, although I am far from an expert on DID. This is more from my own experience from healing from trauma. In the course of healing from sexual abuse, I have encountered other parts of me, parts of me that were "packed away" along with the unprocessed traumatic memories. There have been two definite ones, a little girl of around 4-5 which is when I think the abuse started and a boy of around 12 who is a protector (he holds the don't trust anybody belief). Don't get me wrong, these are not separate identities like Robin/Scott/Samy experiences, but split off parts of me. The only way to integrate them was to let them speak because they had information that I was not consciously aware of, the only way to integrate and take them back in was to let that part of me speak. So I'm in favor of speaking because how else do you heal? And so much of abuse is surrounded by being told you have no voice, you mustn't speak, you don't have needs that to continue to do that to yourself just seems intuitively to be the wrong thing to do. For whatever its worth... And in answer to your question, I don't know anyone with DID in real life, but my sister does. I know what kind of experiences caused me to move on the continium to where you are, and I don't even what to imagine what got you there. I think it is a testament to your strength, resiliency and creativity that you are all here. And I really respect the courage it takes for you to allow different personalities to speak knowing that most of us will struggle to understand what it is like for you. Thank you so much for talking.

I guess that I am finding myself in a place of wonder....???? Are people only welcome on this site if they agree with what is being voiced by the majority of all others? I respectfully disagree totally with what many believe here ....Does that make me a less valuable member of this site? Does that make me unsupportive?????? Perhaps my sharing/voicing is simply to present the other side of an arguement (not to argue)... food for thought, so to speak....???

I choose not to wallow in self-pity because of abuses I experienced early in life....Letting go of the past has given me a freedom beyond words...so, thanks for being an incredibly supportive bunch...??!!

Sarah, of course you are welcome, I have appreciated all your input. I was not trying to drive you away with my comments, I was being supportive of the dude and just speaking of what I know which is my experience. I think you are mistaking disagreement for rejection. And I think it was courageous of you to speak up knowing that most people didn't agree with you. But I think you are so worried about that, that you're seeing rejection where there isn't any. And I think its great you've been able to let go of your past, that's the goal I think we all walk toward. It's just that we all go at our own pace. It would be a real loss if you decided not to post any more.

AG

I does be sorry to upset people. I didn't very mean to. I'm not so sure how to support somone who says I shouldn't talk or nothing.
Samy

quote:

I choose not to wallow in self-pity because of abuses I experienced early in life....Letting go of the past has given me a freedom beyond words

Um Sarah- I don't know what your issue is because you are the one deciding that we are not taking your side. We are offering our perspective in comparison to yoiurs. WHen someone rejects yours, yuou are saying.. well I guess im not welcome yet you are the one that brought up the research that supports integration and such???

Do I not have a right to express what Im aware of??

and your quote above.... let me say this... you have a right to how you feel and believe however the problem I had is that you basicaly said its Better that YOU ALL MOVE ON and Ge3t Over IT type of statement. You didnt say , I have found this to be most helpful to me.. you basicaly told me and others this is what we should do and is the only healthy way to get by.... that is the problem that I have.

also, I think about yoru quote.... so becaise I havent moved on... does that mean Im wallowing in self pityu for myself? Becuase others here have multiple identtiies and arfe woprking with that.. does that mean they are holding on to the past?

It seems that you are the one here placing judgement and not participating in an open forum to share ones opinion.

I agree in opnion sharing but you presented information.. and even told shrinklady that you didnt know where her research was comning from so these sort of statements do ask for a response and now my response has somehow made you feel like well i guess im not supported and such.

I made it very very clear that you have your right to your opinion and how YOU choose to heal but you dont have the right to tell ME how to heal and that my way of healing is not the right way. What you do for you is great and its wonderful to see that yuou have found healing and growth for yourself in that. Thats greeat for you but maybe for me, I have not yuet found the answers that I need yet I do not feel that I am at all wallowing in self pity.. in fact quite the opposite.. im learning to embrace all people who have suffered trauma in there different ways of expressing it. Even if I do not understand it or find it odd, its not my place to say they are wrong.

Than you say "I guess my thoughts arent worthy of being heard" yet you expressed them and it doesn't seem you wan t to hear an answer or another opinion based on what you believe and present? That baffles me. Im in a place of wonderment as to why you seem to expect us to hear yourside and just not answer back?? Od course you are welxcome to disagtree with what others believe but in standing up for what yuou believe, there are people who dissent and disagree and that is something we too have to tollerate. I have had to fight a lot for disability rights that often peopel dont believe in... I can't exactly understand that but it happens and I deal with the opposition while still holding my stance and beliefs but I try to be open to the fact that maybe what I believe is wrong and maybe not.

I respectfuly disagree with what you believe but I like that yuou are willing to share it.

quote:

I does be sorry to upset people. I didn't very mean to. I'm not so sure how to support somone who says I shouldn't talk or nothing.
Samy

SAmy, you haven't upset anyone and it's good to make your voice heard. For people that have been hurt, the best thing we have is our voice. If others don't agree with our voice, it is okay.. this is part of the process and why we have a forum to discuss these things if people are all willing to discuss, share and lend their voice to be heard and listened too. Its good to hear you here Samy.

Sara-

i read your posts and you say.. well I will be silent ( a familiar place for me) yet you want to present another side. YUou say you support intergration but when we present another side, you take it as an attack yet when you said how yuou feel, we are not attacking, we are presenting the way we choose to see things based on how we see things...

you tell Shrinklady you dont know what literature she has been looking at yet when Scoot asked you what have you found, you dont provide it but you want us to take your side at that and seems like you are saying we are not supporting you because we dont agree with you???

You say you have moved on and dont wallow in self pity and implied in that is saying we are wallowing in self pity but maybe I got that wrong? I surely hope that I do.

Even if no.... as I said earlier.. my issue isnt with what you have accomplished in your moving on but my issue isyou telling me and others that this is what we must do to have the growth thaqt you have achieved. You basicaly said that You need to move on in order to be happy.. and that is wherre the problem is. It's not cool to tell others what to do in what might be triggering. As I said my abuser told me the past is the past... its time to move on... so hearing tha is like well gee.. its abusive sounding to me. So for you, this works but it isnt for me. I think its wonderful you did and would love to hear more aboiut how you did it. How wrere yuou able to? What did you do? What sort of happiness did you find and how did yuou find it? What is your process of meaning-making?? But instead you sauy.. well I will just be silent.... Im left to wonder just how much that helps ....

It is so unfortunate that I have been completely misunderstood....perhaps I am just unable to articulate via the internet what it is that I am wanting to voice.... When faced with such anger from the group, I choose to find support elsewhere...I won't be posting here any longer....

s

"Do you think that, in therapy, it is ok for the parts (alters, insiders) to talk, or is it just for the core person (host)? Does letting the parts talk encourage disunification? If anyone asked you, would you stick up for your belief or would you 'go with the status quo'?"

This was the original question! And I do believe it's been answered... most of you seem to think it's ok for the 'parts' to talk and would stick up for your beliefs. A hot topic isn't it! Sorry it went so screwy... sorry Sarah feels a need to leave because of it.. I suppose, in some way, she is sticking up for her own beliefs in doing so.

Scott/Antoni

Hi Sarah, I'm sorry you're feeling attacked. When I read over the posts, I'm hearing how folks really value the fact that you have had the courage to voice your opinion. Folks have been very reasoned in their responses. It seems there is support there if you can somehow find it within yourself to receive it.

We are all misunderstood...that's kinda why we're here. We are trying to make our voices known, to speak our truth. There's a chance that this might be triggering for you on another level...things like this often are for us. I'd encourage you to give it a few days and see how you feel then.

I don't feel a need to waste my energy trying to process the overwhelmingly harsh, anger/ rage and hostility directed my way (particularly from BFW)....My experience on this site has really affirmed my lack of faith in humanity......there really are no words to describe how it is that I am feeling at this moment.....I will not be posting here any longer....

s

well i believe i made it clear that I had no hostility in my posts however if one percieves it, than maybe thats something they can choose to process in therapy.

I also made it clear that my only issue and only thing I did not appreciate was the implication that becasue I didnt just 'let go of the past' as Sarah has that some how that makes me and others self pitying. I made it clear that I appreciate Sarah's process for her and her only but didnt appreciate being told that this is what I or anyone else should do..,.. to 'let go of the past' and just 'move 'on.

Outside of that, I only put the same questions you put out there and answered what you stated. I shared my opinions just as you have but it seems that you Sarah are just mad because I made good points and so you are taking it hostilly.

I had a friend who was very very borderline and dealing with her is similar to communicating here on this issue with you. It's really quite amazing. No matter what I said, she read it the way she wanted to and would discount all other clues and such that wasnt being said. She even accused me of doing things I wasnt doing until I just had to drop the frinedhship because it was way too much. Such is life.

Sorry you find me so anger, harsh and hostile but in reality, I only answered back based on my plethora of knowledge to give answer to the things you presented. One will always get an answer back to what they stand up for whether they agree with it or not.

So if you want to leave because of that, thats your issue. It's obvious that your thoughts are welcome here but you are making the decision to be silent, find things a waste and so on so it's unfortunate because I had hoped to find out just how you found your peace and ability to 'move on' for yourself. It's always nice to hear how others figure out these things for themselves as long as they don't push it onto others...

Butterfly Warrior

Perhaps you need to go back and reread your posts.....from my standpoint (the sensitive soul that I am...as opposed to the diagnosis you have given me of borderline...which I am not) I sensed/felt anger......perhaps looking at things from my standpoint when you reread your posts you just might see things differently.....anyway, I no longer feel safe to post on this sight....I wish you the best...

s

the body was 3 months when the first insider was born"???? Come on, a 3-month old body could NEVER recall such a thing...

these identities are your coping mechanism...plain and simple....the sooner that you realize this the sooner you feel heal your true physical/mental/spiritual being.....we all have traumas.....and there comes a time when we must simply let go....and move forward

Sorry... think I missed out on the sensitivity on these posts!!

Scott... (yes, I'm angry)

Scott.. that is the statement that made me feel really angry as well.

Sarah.... did I give you a diagnosis? No. Am I a doctor? No. lol... basicaly, I just said communicating with you reminds me of communitcating with this one friend that I had who picked out the words and things she wanted to decide and support whatever she wanted to accuse me of when she was in that state of mind.

I made it quite abundently clear that Im open to your opinions as long as it isn't telling me to move on or that Im self pitying b ut for your own process and what you did, thats great.

If you think integration is the right thing, thats your opinion... we did ask tha tyou give us more info on exactly what that means to you or from your expereinces but you did not seem to wannt to do that.... it seems that you just wanted to say well this is what the lit says and how i feel and i disagree with you all.

I presented my side and how i feel bnased on my expereinces and friends and issues but somehow, it seems that my difference or presentation of those differences made you feel that somehow I was attacking you. Yet, I could have taken your opnions as attacking those I know with DID but I didnt.

Understanding doesn't mean agreement.

I have actually reread all of the posts several times trying to figure just What the issue is and why is this conversation breaking down and all that Im able to see is that you don't agree with me and others but dont want to accept that we agree to disagree. it seems that you take it as an attack. I dont get that. I keep saying thaqt but you never say different so Im left to assume that is the case.

I have also said multiple times that Im glad for the healing that you have had and wish to learn more but I dont appreciate being told that I need to just 'simply let go and move forward' because thats telling me what to do and f4eels invaldating to my process. I said this than you said well gee, just cauise i dont choose to wallow in self pity, im not suppoorted???

I thought.. wow does this mean she is implying that Im wallowing in self pituy because I havent moved on as she has? I dont know if thats the case and I have asked in my posts more than once yet you do not answer any of these inquiries.. not from me or any inquiries from Scott or Samy or anyone pretty much.

So Im not sure how to look at things from your viewpoint. I have tried but all I can see is that our difference in opionon is not mutually acceptable. I disagree with you but that doesnt mean I reject you or your notions of healing. That doesnt mean its right for me or makes sense to me however im open to learn more. all I have wanted os the same from yuou.. that you see why I have the opinions that I have and where im coming from... and that you can disagree as I dsisagree but that we are both open to knowing that is the nature of human relationships.

I had hoped that you would share your process so that maybe I coudl learn and I too could shre maybe why Im stuck because I am.. that is myh process.. but its all ajorney.

Anyways, I think I have done the best I can to describe what im expereicing and sensing from your posts and have asked questions and looked for clarification to seemingly no avail so I guess thats part of the problwm with online communication but also other factors.

If you do really decide to leave the site, I wish you well too in your healing and understanding of trauma from your standpoint and that of others. If you stay, I hope that we can have the whole approach that understanding doesnt mean aggreement and that we all have things to offer in our journeys.

Butterfly Warrior

Hi all.. I just read all of this right now.. hmmm.. Interesting example of how things can get totally turned around.. reminds me of that game we used to play when we were kids where you would whisper something down the line and, at the end of the line, the words were completely turned around and had different meaning. I'm not necessarily saying that's what happened here - it just reminded me of that.

I have absolutely no training or education on the subjects discussed, nor have I even read about them, however, I wanted to provide some thoughts from a "layperson's" perspective, naive as they may appear to experts...

I am sorry to be reading this conversation so late because I wanted to ask Sarah a question about something she said, but seems like she has decided to part company with this forum. However, Sarah, on the chance that you are taking a peak, I am intrigued and puzzled by your comment "we all have traumas.....and there comes a time when we must simply let go....and move forward......". Funny, I have caught myself saying that about my 49 year old sister. When I last saw her a year ago (she lives overseas and we aren't close), I was amazed about how she still went on and on about how our parents screwed up (emotional and verbal abuse; emotional neglect; not sexual or "deviant" in the common sense, I think is how I would describe it) and my response was basically "when is she going to stop complaining about what our parents did wrong and start looking at what she can do to deal with it".. so I am a bit caught in the middle of this small part of the disagreement because on the one hand I no longer focus on what mom or dad did wrong, shoulda done, etc. Now I focus on dealing with the after effects and moving on. So, I've succeeded, I believe, in the accepting that's what they did and not dwelling on their part or staying angry with them.. however, I am still very challenged by the moving forward part of the equation. And I get that this is a basic argument or theory in the therapeutic approach this site and ShrinkLady is taking..and it makes so much sense to me. It's easy to say "just move forward" but... it's easy to think it in a left brain way but it's sooooo difficult to actually do it because I cannot calm my mind. I have struggled for years trying to understand why I, as an intelligent woman who wants to make changes in her life and logically knows what to do, cannot bring myself to do it as much as I try.. I struggle with being overweight.. My logical and intellectual side knows what to do about it.. but try telling that to the part of me that wants to seek solace and comfort and sanity and calm in food.. sometimes it seems impossible. It really is like I'm two different people - I'm not saying this to minimize or simplify those with multiple personalities - I don't have those, it's an expression of speech in a way, but in another way it feels like it.. logical me looking at stressed me saying what the heck are you eating six pastries for?? and my stressed me telling my logical me to go to hell. So, I was wondering how Sarah did that and hoping she could share some thoughts and ideas that might help me do that.

As for those who have multiple personalities, this layperson's response is this: I cannot see how it can be progress that the host is the only one allowed to be present while the others are stifled.. I would think that all personalities need to be able to be present and heard so that eventually some balance between all of them can be found to meld into one eventual personality... The personalities other than the host exist, so I can't see how they cannot be part of the solution to finding one cohesive personality.. Sorry if I am being naive here.. And is the goal to have one personality? It reminds me of the deaf who wants a colcular implant (I suspect I'm spelling that wrong - sorry). Does getting the implant deny one's uniqueness and identity as a deaf person because now he/she can hear? Does trying to have only one personality deny one's uniqueness and identify as one with multiple personalities?

Just thoughts thrown out there.... As my dear, recently departed friend once said (something to the effect of).. pretend the ideas are little pebbles.. roll them around a bit.. if they feel good, keep them; if they don't, simply set them aside..

Our goal, at the moment, is for cooperation. That's at least something most of us can agree on!
Robin

SS- you're reasoning and words are logical and its nice to hear about your journey


I believe that telling someone to 'simply move on.. forward' could mean many things to different people but dont believe one should say it to others. Thats just my opinion I guess. Like with your sister.... it's her process... maybe it's just hard for her to get past that part because you dont expect parents to do these things.... maybe thats where her anger is stuck at wheras for you its not....

In this mental health chat I used to go to, if anyone talked about abuse at all, this one member would yell and say.. .Gee stop feeling sorry for yourself and so on just at the mention of one discussing issues.... it was annoying.... i would basically tell her... well go to another room or put us all on ignore if you donbt want to hear it!!! LOL....

I know for me, I feel I move forward but I haven't been able to let go because there is too much intertwined to let go.. it's all there part of me in every essence of me and ive lost a lot that i dont understand. What is left of me outsid eof trauma.. i do not know So I guess to me I see the words 'just move on' as saying.. forget about the past.. it doesnt matter... as my dad had said too... easy for him to say.... i suppose for me it's an incredibly triggering statement but with Sarah, I guess she couldn't see that part of it at all... oh well....

With DID, things are complex... but yeh.. what you're saying and I'm saying seems to make sense to me... just how do you make sense out of parts without talking to them??? Psychic abilities anyone???? lol....

My therapist and I are doing trauma work once again but her approach is very different to me. I don't quite understand it yet. She has a much different approach than the traditional 'exposure therapy' which is FINE with me!! LOL. But right now, i don't exactly get what we're doing. We'rer talking about things about me now.... and she wants me to after we're done going over that, do a wheel with things about how I was before my traumas but um.. before.... at least before the one that brought on my PTSD was when I was 12 and honestly I really dont know much about myself before than either.... lol. So im thinking.. O K A Y... well this will be interesting..... lol.....

It's all confusing....

Robin, cooperation, yes! - not, however, at the cost of stifling our thoughts and thereby suppressing respectful debate out of which comes discovery and learning..
BW, thanks for your comments - yes the past does matter and yes we all progress and heal at our own pace, no right or wrong. I think it'sironic how I can discuss subjects like this intelligently but when I'm in my own mess, the static and noise in my mind is so deafening, any coherent thoughts disappear.. As you say, BW, it's all confusing! :-)

I actually meant for our system of insiders... cooperation between us is one goal most of us in this system agree on.

Robin

Oops.. sorry for the misunderstanding. :-)