The way I look at it, not everybody responds well to assertiveness. If you're not assertive, it might be because the people you grew up with don't respond well to it (ie they don't care what you want or how you feel). Or it might be because the people you grew up with didn't model assertiveness.

Even though being assertive doesn't guarantee getting your way, however...being passive almost totally guarantees you WON'T get what you want. And if you never try being assertive, then you miss the opportunity to learn that many people DO care about what you want and need and want to help you.

Yes- I think BLT is right here. One of the issues with not being assertive/expressive (and I have this issue too) is that it seems to go hand-in-hand with 'mind-reading'. We assume that others know what we want, why we want it, and how important it is to us. But they very often don't. It seems obvious to us, but we forget how much particularity and nuance there is in our wants and needs. E.g. it might be very important to you to have some time to yourself in the mornings, when you're just waking up, because otherwise you can't centre your thoughts for the day. Maybe to you that is A REALLY BIG DEAL, whereas you don't mind that your parents walk into your house without knocking, and it only bugs you a bit (but it's tolerable under some circumstances) when your partner calls you five times a day. Even if your family tried to guess your needs, they probably wouldn't get it right - and they wouldn't understand the background.

So being assertive is about figuring out the detail of our needs and giving people the chance to understand that without having to guess. Sometimes it happens through conflict, because we don't always know ahead of time when something is going to p us off, and sometimes it helps us avoid conflict. Models like "When you ______, I feel ______", are a good starting point, but in my experience they are only the beginning - other people have a whole landscape of needs and reasons for needs as well, so finding out about the intersection between theirs and ours is a really detailed process. It helps to stay open, and to assume that others would also prefer the relationship to be win-win rather than win-lose, if they could only find a way to get there.

Good question Athenacus

I wonder too do you find yourself responding differently in different situations? I find I am somewhat assertive ( not always ) in my work role and as a mother. But with my family of origin or my husband - no way. Totally want them to read my mind. It seems the more intimate the relationship, the harder it is to risk expressing my needs.

Athenacus

I am constantly being told to "stand up for myself". I can't even make a point with my children. I have never been assertive and am not attentive to my needs at all. My T despairs with me I think. The prospect of a possible confrontation terrifies me. In reality I know the world will not come to an end if express myself but just the thought that it might possibly could all change is scary for me. The thought of even trying to get over it is anxiety producing. I am a wimp!!!

((((ATHENACUS))))

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The idea of assertiveness is like learning a new language

I think you are onto something here. Personally, I don't think it's as simple as telling someone, "when you do x, I feel y." For me, it is very much related to self-talk and there had to have been some serious brain development before I could be more assertive. I have been so focused on others needs that the language to put my needs into words just wasn't there. My needs and the ability to express them just didn't pop into my head. It was all happening at such a low level of consciousness, that my needs in any kind of contrete way, never reached the light of day. In my experience, as Jones said, it's been a very involved process having to do with being comfortable in my own space, feeling comfortble with my feelings, feeling comfortable expressing them. Identifying needs perhaps after the fact at first. And then being able to identify them in the moment. Then being able to identify them ahead of time so you can plan for those needs.

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I still keep wondering though if I told my family that it bothers me that I have no space and no room of my own and feel like my boundaries are being crossed, if they would just continue doing what they are doing anyway. Know what I mean??
If I said, "When you ______, I feel ______.", will that really change anything? Or does it just make me feel better in the moment?

I think what my T is trying to get through to me is that you want to be involved with people who will change their behavior if possible to meet your needs. You want to be close to people who care about your feelings. You have to care about your feelings first but after that first step, you want to be close to people who are sensitive to your needs and feelings. Okay, now I'm rambling but I think you get it.

My Mom just doesn't have the ability to be empathic, however, so with her, it's futile to express any needs. It's a learning process that involves learning about the empathic ability of the people we are involved with as well as learning about ourselves.

Wow! Thank you all so much!

You all have given me some things to chew on.

Liese-I totally agree with not having the words thing....that's exactly what happens to me! I don't know what it is I need immediately and expressing feelings and needs.
I have a lot to work on with my new T next month when I see her.

Hi Athenacus,

I find myself to be a pretty assertive person. It's come somewhat as part of my job and my personality... sometimes I cave though. I'm not sure why because... I grew up in a very abusive situation where I had to be quite submissive. However, at school, in sports and stuff I was always a leader not necessarily aggressive but with "presence" (my T politely calls it). I am openly defiant and say what is on my mind, I've learned a very gentle way about it over the years (my boss put it as... I have a way of giving feedback that leaves the person still feeling good somehow). My Ts and friends have said at times they like that I'm a pretty open book. My mother spent last Christmas preaching to my family about what a horrible B I am because ever since I was little I just say what's on my mind - my aunt defended me but otherwise it was really painful. I hate sometimes how I think I'm perceived because of who I am... but everyone feels that way about themselves, I think.

What I do have a problem with it is in close relationships... where my heart is involved suddenly I can't be assertive ahead of time and I will let myself get hurt. Not that I expect people to necessarily know what I need I just don't feel deserving of anything, that the person somehow loving me is way more. There are many types of authority I will stand up to, but there are some I can't. It didn't take me long to stand up to my T, but with strangers or people involved in my care at hospitals and stuff I have a really hard time. If I'm scared I shut down... and don't want anyone to know anything at all

It's sort of an all or nothing for me sometimes. I dunno.. it depends if something hits my value system and sometimes my defenses... I've learned a lot about expressing myself correctly through my work because I have to walk in and command a room. I thought it was interesting Liese mentioned self-talk. For me I get in some zone where I say nothing to myself, I'm focused wholly on whatever it is I'm doing or saying. I don't often feel bad about being assertive because I think I communicate well, sometimes I screw up though... what I mostly feel bad about and what impedes my being assertive is just feeling like I don't deserve to exist, or trying to avoid any human connection at all.

((((((CAT))))

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what I mostly feel bad about and what impedes my being assertive is just feeling like I don't deserve to exist, or trying to avoid any human connection at all.

I'm not really sure I meant self-talk. Maybe more a sense of self that stood up for itself because standing up for what I needed never occurred to me before. It was as if my whole thought and language system evolved around the other's needs. Nothing of the sort developed around my needs. As I've worked through a lot of the self-loathing and other things that kept me from getting in touch with my needs, I am finding that what I need and want is more clear to me in a spontaneous kind of way, whereas before it wasn't at all. It's really difficult to understand and express.