Deep breath, BB. You are not insane. I am sure that he will respond to your email and I doubt that he will pull the plug on you for this. I think he will appreciate your honesty if he is a good T. I am proud of you for sending the email. I believe it will open up some good dialogue about this situation and will ultimately be a good thing.

That's just the thing, LG. I can't afford to dialog with my T. It's too expensive. He charges me for all contact with him. That's the main reason I'm doing this cutoff thingy.

Thanks for being proud of me, though.

he charges for all contact??? yikes. Well it sounds like you are doing the right thing by cutting off contact before you dig yourself into debt.

Beebs, I'm so, so, so glad that you said all of that to your T. Even though it's completely petrifying, you said what you really felt you needed to say. I think you knew, either consciously or unconsciously, that this was your chance to have your say, and I'm so glad you took it. And I don't see what you said as sabotage at all. I actually think your T is probably really, really pleased with what you said.

I hope your T responds to you soon so that you're not waiting for long. Hang in there. ((((BB))))

Your T asked for your honest feedback and you gave it. I think he will be honored that you trusted him with it. I know it is very scary. My T now wants a phone call about some of the "complex issues" I am struggling with right now. Even if you can't get more individual contact with him, perhaps him knowing where you are at will help your sessions with H. Or maybe he can incorporate some individual time with H and with you into the marital stuff, since it sounds like there are things that both of you can't really say directly to T when the other is present. ((((BB)))) It will be okay!!!

Ack! I haven't heard back from him. That means I most likely won't today. I'm so sad. This is why T hates me.
Monte- LG, yes all contact, that takes him beyond, I think it is three minutes- to read. He stated this boundary, and then retracted it by not charging me too many times to count. I started to call him on it, because heck- if it's a boundary- then it's a boundary right, and shouldn't he be sticking to it? I never could figure out if it was ok to email so much, so he stated this "I will charge you a million dollars a minute after 3 minutes of reading or responding" boundary after awhile. But when he stops charging me for email contact, a couple of times- I sent him checks with extra tacked on for the "email fairy." T never commented on the "much loved email fairy" (guess that was a bit of acting out on my part- but I notice he has started to charge me in my bills again , for the emails.

This one was a freebie because it was feedback, I guess, which he said he needs to "plan the next phase." (BB reads "plan the next method of torture.") I hate loving somebody who will never love me back. I'm just so heartbroken. H is getting a little bit less resistant it seems, after this morning's session.

sorry thanks *everybody*, I'm so distracted I can't think very straight about responding properly.

aw beebee... I'm so sorry you are hurting so much. No need to respond. As painful as it is, I think you did a very wise and good thing. It could turn out that he lowers the fee. At the very least, I do really believe you can find someone who is a better fit. I know all of this is of little consolation right now... no matter what, this is hard thing to do - and it is very much the right thing to bring this up with him and give him this honest feedback. It wasn't too honest. He needed to know. You needed him to know. Try to take really good care of you right now, you did a good thing. We are still here. Keep posting...

many hugs,
~jane

Beebs, I'm sure I'm starting to sound like a sadist... but once again I'm so pleased and proud of you! You feel angry! You shared your feelings and said what you think! You are going so great.

Big hugs for you - the brave parts, and the terrified parts too.

Not sure I understand this:

quote:

Ack! I haven't heard back from him. That means I most likely won't today. I'm so sad. This is why T hates me.

T hates you because you are sad?

Love,
Jones

Thank you so much for the support. Monte you really hit the nail on the head- yeah, the money thing, it really does make me feel dehumanized. I don't really understand why. T would no doubt deflect that and say it's not really about him- and its possible that he would be right. But that would hurt, so I don't normally bring it up, even though it's kinda right at the core, it's the thingy that hurts the most in T for some odd reason. I do see why T needs to charge me, but he *feels* like he just cares about the money, even though I *know* that's not true. It's a two-sided thing, because if I pay I feel less guilty for contacting him, and if I don't pay, than I do not feel like I can contact him, but if I have to pay, than I also can't afford to contact him. Right now that especially bites since I'm not seeing him one-on-one anymore, I guess.

JD, Kashley, Yaku, and LG- I want to thank you for the supportive words. For now I'm just gritting my teeth, and waiting to see if I hear back from him, which I at least will about payment method, since there was a payment method question I also had. I keep imagining that my T is throwing a lot of money stuff in my face right now to highlight that it's my h I need and not him.

Jones, haha, no you are not a sadist, I know that. Thank you for the understanding, and the acceptance of me. I don't know why T hates me because I'm sad...I just wrote that at the time. I'm sure it isn't true. I don't get why I wrote that.

I wish I could just sleep for the next century or two. guh. T will not answer my email, I just know it. He's going to play all hard ball with me, and punish me for being so impossible now, because this is what I wanted or something like that.

I never should have sent it.

Beebs... I'm so sorry you are struggling this way. But I am sure that your T does not hate you for emailing him your feedback. T's love honest feedback... it helps them so much and it enables them to help you better. Take a deep breathe and try to allow some good feelings like hope get in.

So are you saying that anything longer than a 3 minute email gets charged? But you can write feedback emails and that is okay? Well that is what you did, you gave him feedback and it was really good what you told him. He needs to know this stuff. I think you were very brave.

Honestly, Beebs, I would not be so brave as you to give up my T for marital therapy. I truly hope this situation eases for you and brings you some relief and that your T at least acknowledges reading your email very soon.

Hugs to you
TN

((((bb)))) you deserve nothing but kindness... thinking of you and praying for you. ~jd

(((BB))) I'm sorry you are feeling so upset. I hope that you hear back from T soon.

Thank you so much. I'm feeling like sooo confused and sad. T still has not got back to me. He will do either:
1.forget all about me in his busyness
2.write back with the practical information about billing and session scheduling and a few words that show how much he doesn't understand what agony I am in (in his busyness) that will leave me reeling in a miserable haze for the next couple of weeks.
3. say a few words that will soothe me somewhat, but leave me still writhing a bit.

Clearly I am hoping for number three. I miss him so much. I'm not brave, TN, just completely desperate and out of options. H is being nicer which is somewhat of a relief, although I find myself unable to receive it.

I just wnat my T. I wish I hadn't told him he is an expensive person to need. I never should have said that. He is going to take me at my word, which is *always* a punishment.

I don't really know what I would do without you guys right now.

BB

((((BB))))
I absolutely hate those moments when I've reached out and am waiting for a response, which may or may not come, and which may or may not soothe me if it does come. He may very well take you at your word, BB, that he is too expensive to need. The reason that hurts is because its true, isn't it? At least its true for you (and it would be for me too). It would be nice if he would reply back with, "I want to reduce your fees in half so that I can keep you as a client." Likelihood of that happening, probably not good. You are in a tough spot, BB. If it weren't for the attachment, it would be so easy to drop him and seek someone more affordable. I'm confident there are more affordable T's out there who are competent, who wouldn't charge you for every single email or contact you sent. You probably won't like me suggesting this, but have you considered a local T whom you could actually sit down and talk with face to face? Maybe you've already talked about that question before and I've missed it.

((((BB)))) I'm sorry. The waiting is so hard and it always seems as if there is no answer which can make the words you sent OK. I am in agony reading over the last two emails I sent waiting for T to tell me how "wrong" my attachment to him is. I will definitely be praying for you and for your T, that he will be attuned to your needs and offer at least comfort and understanding, even if he cannot offer a solution.

quote:

It would be nice if he would reply back with, "I want to reduce your fees in half so that I can keep you as a client." Likelihood of that happening, probably not good. You are in a tough spot, BB. If it weren't for the attachment, it would be so easy to drop him and seek someone more affordable.

Thank you for hearing me and understanding me so well, MH. I know you get it. My heart really goes out to you right now, too. ((((MH)))) hugs back. I'm not at all upset that you suggest finding a different local T that I can see face to face. I know you understand that doing that would be the most difficult and painful thing I could ever do, even if it is exactly what I need. I would have to shut down my heart to do that, and all the while hoping that a new T could get it started again. My h will never be my attachment figure. I really don't think T understands that place. Maybe. But I'm trusting him anyway, because what else can I do?

Thanks for understanding. It really helps today.

BB

Thank you Yaku- I crossposted and didn't see your reply until right now. I guess I too worry that my T thinks my attachment to him is wrong, and that "you need to transfer those feelings to others more appropriate, such as your spouse." Keeps replaying in my mind, over, over and over.

arrgh. I trust my T- that's the thing.

quote:

I guess I too worry that my T thinks my attachment to him is wrong, and that "you need to transfer those feelings to others more appropriate, such as your spouse."

BB, has your T actually said this to you, or is it just something you worry he thinks? If he actually said something like that, then it reminds me of MTF's T who seemed to think marriage counseling was the answer to attachment issues. I disagree with that.

yeah- it reminds me of MTF's T too. And my T did say *something like that.* But I'm not sure, the context, or what he meant by it. I may be projecting all kind of junk. idk. Or, even if he *did* say that, and meant it in the same way that (I take it) MTF's T meant it, than maybe- he's right?? I can't figure it out for myself. I need my T to figure it out. So it's a trust issue. Somebody help me. I am soooooo confused.

To play devil's advocate, on here- I do think that I have to live the rest of my life with my h and not my T, even though that is painful, it's is just the plain truth. I should have some level of attachment to my h, rather than just a tremendous shrug of the shoulders at him. right? T can't meet my needs for contact when needed, love, support, guidance and care, or touch and holding. H (if he is a good and loving h) can and should. Learning how to do so with the help and guidance of my T will be good for him, too. But- it's also true that it is just *not the same thing.* But maybe T knows stuff about my issues, understands attachment, - has a very deep understanding of marriage and what it is supposed to be- this I know- and really thinks based on all the crap he knows about me, that *this transfer of feelings to h* is what really needs to happen for my healing. He has a Phd for heaven's sake- he studied with really famous people- he is extremely knowledgable, and trusted, compassionate and imho, a brilliant psychologist who is well known, and very well respected in his field. (thank you google search ) T told my H this time, that he constantly goes for cousleing himself, and that he is very surprised that my h doesn't get any help or guidance for himself. He said my H is putting all of it onto me. Who am I to say that his understanding of things is incorrect? I just don't trust my own self or judgement enough to think that my T knows less about attachment and transference than I do. No way. All I know is how *I* feel. And that hasn't always proved to be a very trustworthy guide for how to act or what decisions to make. In fact- just the opposite. I'm really really sad, and really really confused. I want my T! I need my T. Why oh why, do they have to be so expensive and unreachable?

I still haven't heard from him, that means I won't today, most likely. I don't really know what to do with myself. I'm just getting really depressed, and to be honest I'm drinking a bit too much, which is hard to admit. Drinking doesn't make me drunk, but it just helps ease the pain, I suppose.

MH, I'm not saying I positively agree with what I just wrote- it's just thoughts, I'm trying to figure out what I think. If you are comfortable to share, can you tell me why you don't agree? It would be very helpful to me, and if it's helpful to you, also, then I'd love it.

BB

I think, of course, it is necessary to revive intimacy and safety within your marriage. When people here are talking about H not being able to be your attachment figure, I think it's more like, the relationship T is trying to have you develop with H is a partnership and your transference feelings seem to be more about a parental sort of love. Having a caring, sensitive, attuned H will certainly help. But, that doesn't change the fact that your individual sessions with T are getting you in touch with the injury (I'm assuming, because I'm not sure how much of your background I know) of not having had appropriate nurture and care as a child. And from what I gather from people here, T is a safe person to explore that hurt with so you can connect with it, mourn it and learn how to live without it debilitating you. I'm in the same spot where I'm not sure I buy that it will work and I won't just need T more and more as things go on, but I think that's what people are talking about with marriage counseling not being able to replace the individual stuff. It's not saying they don't think being more connected to your H is important. It's just not the only element of healing in your particular case...I think.

Hey, BB, I only have a minute before I have to rush off again, but I agree with how Yaku has explained it. It's not that marriage counseling isn't helpful or sometimes necessary, but it's not a substitute cure for that early parental attachment injury. You said it yourself, that your H can't fill that need. Sorry, I gotta run now...

Yaku, MH, and Monte- everything you say resonates. I wonder if my T agrees? I really have no clear idea of what his take on this stuff is- I've always just had his take- whatever that may be. Which means I basically, do what I suspect he wants/thinks I should do. He knows this, and so he is really, really careful never to say a word to me about what he thinks, except if it is somehow mysteriously acceptable. For example a big stumbling block in my therapy was always that I couldn't figure out (seriously) if it was ok to schedule a session or not. So T refused to *ever* say *anything* to me that would indicate that I should shcedule a session, continue with therapy, or quit etc. and etc. Nor would he give me feedback much, about what he thinks of me. I guess he thought that I needed to find myself, not try to become a replica of him. But this really hasn't worked for me, I can say that *fairly* clearly, because I've never had a clear sense of who I am or what I want to begin with, if that makes much sense. I just know that I want to be loved, and I especially want to be loved by my T. That is really all I definitively have in terms of "what I want, what I need." Where was I going with this? oh..so I guess I was surprised when T said that clearly, if money is an issue and we have to pick between marital and individual, we should go with marital at this point because I am not progressing. I mean..my mood lifts occasionally to the point where I have a sense of being able to accomplish a few, simple things, but I always plummet down again and become often *very* non functional. (I know I should *just stop it* but I can't seem to.) But T has said he is very happy to line his bank account **cough** -I mean help me, by continuing with individual sessions as well as marital. I just don't know where my trust for him went? I never used to think he was just trying to line his bank account. It's weird.

Thanks you for your help, I'm really, really grateful- I wouldn't be bothering so much but I have nowhere else to turn right now with my own crap, and you guys are pretty much being my lifeline. It's really good of you all. I **still** haven't heard back from him, not even on the practical scheduling matter.

BB

Sorry to keep posting, it's just- arg.
I feel like I've made my T look so bad, and really he is *so* kind. And he's really into a lot of this stuff, too, I really think so. He's said that I have to learn to be dependent on him and stuff like that. So I just don't know what is going on.

I'll keep my beak up! It's the feathers that are bothering me this time. They are all ruffled.

Do you have any birdseed?

BB,

you have not painted your T in a negative light. I think you are appropriately addressing some legitimate issues.

BB - I struggle with the same problem of wanting T to define things for me and explicitly tell me or demonstrate what is acceptable to want and receive. I think he wants that message to come from within, but I just can't bring myself to that point. Today, I was thinking I need to explain how dirty I feel for wanting to be cared about. Maybe that's why both T & H are causing me so much distress. How did we ever get this way? ((((BB))))

Thanks LG- I feel guilty like I've turned on my best friend or something right now, so I'm glad it didn't sound as bad as I thought it did. arg. I'll be alright.

Yaku- I'm not sure. Last time I had a session with my SD, he was asking me why I feel like I am a really bad parent. He said "I see you with your kids all the time, twice a week, (in church, not for sessions) and you are good mom." But I couldn't believe it cause all I could think was the bad stuff I do wrong. So he asked me, but gently- "What- do you blow tobacco smoke in their faces? Do you let them play in traffic? Do you not bother to wash them?" I was like- of course not! Then it hit me- all that stuff was stuff my parents did to me, only I never really thought about it as stuff that was bad for some reason. It was just such a normal part of my life, I never thought about it, and they were loving a lot of the time.
But to answer your question- I think that's probably how we got this way.

quote:

But I couldn't believe it cause all I could think was the bad stuff I do wrong. So he asked me, but gently- "What- do you blow tobacco smoke in their faces? Do you let them play in traffic? Do you not bother to wash them?" I was like- of course not! Then it hit me- all that stuff was stuff my parents did to me, only I never really thought about it as stuff that was bad for some reason.

Wow... what a perception shift! BB, you ARE a good parent, there is no question - the amount of work you are doing for yourself so you can be fully present in your life and for your kids - that not only takes a good parent, it takes a very courageous person.

It kind of sucks when our past experiences teach us to value the negative memories over the positive ones. I know that I struggle with this on a daily basis - it only takes one negative experience to outweigh five positive ones and really mess up a day in my mind...

(((((BB)))))

quote:

It kind of sucks when our past experiences teach us to value the negative memories over the positive ones. I know that I struggle with this on a daily basis - it only takes one negative experience to outweigh five positive ones and really mess up a day in my mind...

Amen to that, R2G. Not sure the way out of it, but hoping always to find the answer.

I'm posting something MH wrote from another thread over here:

MH said:

quote:

"BB, for all his prestige, I would expect more from your T. He obviously isn't doing his part to keep the boundaries on the billing issue. I am sure you must be asking yourself why you must pay him so much, because he obviously isn't desperate for the money if he repeatedly forgets to cash your checks or fails to bill you."

Yeah- kind of like that, MH! But He said he's going to try to be better about that now, so that I don't have a large bill piling up all at once. I don't really care. whatever, if he's disorganized, fine. I just wish that it didn't affect me so much, *or* that he would *get* how much it would affect me to have this uncashed check sitting there, wondering why- maybe he loves me and isn't going to cash the check! Hating myself like crazy for thinking that way- and then, bam, of course it's just a stupid mistake because he forgot all about cashing my freaking two thousand dollar check!! It's like "T- am I really that completely worthless?? I know I am really, really stupid for feeling that way about it. clearly I am an idiot. That is not the issue here." So I tried to tell him that I need a clear boundary- which he set and then failed to follow consistently, which clearly is because I am too worthless and insignificant to him, to consider or remember my stupid little needs in his freakingly busy and important life, so- *I* am being ridiculous, a big baby about stuff, making a mountain out of a molehill, etc. etc. etc. Because I'm the one leading this little small life where teeny-tiny things matter *a lot.* So- I feel guilty for wanting him to actually *care* about my teeny-tiny stuff, and to tenderly care for the ways that my teeny-tiny life intersect with his in such teeny-tiny, pathetic, limping ways. It makes me just hate myself, that of *course* he doesn't and/or won't. I don't know anything anymore. I love my T- I trust my T- that's the thing. So I *must* be being wrong, and stupid. Maybe it really isn't a big deal, but I just am not in a place to be able to figure that out. so confused.

I still haven't heard from him. It's going to so *not* be a fun weekend.

It occurs to me that just about everything I wrote above about my T also applies to my h, and to other figures in my life that were supposedly caring. Weird.

If I had some big important need that would give my T a chance to showcase himself, he'd be all over it. arg. why does he have to be such a man. And so damn human.

I have no idea if anything I'm thinking about him is even true. No idea.

***triggers, questioning T's care***

My T still hasn't responded. the silent treatment ensues...I've brought it on myself by saying that I can't pay for a response.

My T doesn't even know that I exist. I'm nothing to him, except a client that he cares about- as he does all his clients in his shrinky way- and someone who pays for his time. I'm like my h's students are to him. One of hundreds of kids he'll inevitably forget all about in a a year or two- even if I kill myself to get straight A's and win his love and be "memorable." Usually I can live with that. But I don't know- if this grief is really about the past, then it makes sense that it would hurt this much and in this way, when I have not contact with my T- since my parents were always more like a distant auntie and uncle we never met, who, while vaguely aware of our pesky existence, certainly weren't affected much by it. Sometimes I think the only way for me to go into the pain, is to deprive myself of my T. I'm fine when I am with him- so fine in fact, that often I have nothing to discuss! This has caused more than one mis-attunement. (I shudder as I remember the moments of him asking "then why are you here?" and me saying "I have no idea." and him saying: "Then I do not know how I can help you." There is no way for him to be with me herein this pain, because if he was, then I wouldn't be in pain.

I wrote to my T again last night. I'm really in some kind of agony about him that's gotten worse again, that I do not understand. When will this pain end? What am I supposed to do? I can't live like this anymore, I have to do something different. I put in a few questions to local T's last night, just ones I found online in my area. I asked them if they take my insurance plan, and how they would deal with a failed treatment. I haven't heard back from any of them, but I suppose I will. I asked my h- and he told me it makes no difference anyway, because our insurance only pays this tiny set amount, and we already get that because of the treatment I am in. So I guess my other option would be a social worker. yikes! I know many of them are caring and professional, but they are not the same thing as my T.- that's for sure. Plus I just have triggery issues about accepting help from the "public sector."

Then I think- why don't I just go back to individual session with my T, and scrap this whole idea, or do marital sessions just once in awhile, and take the rest of the sessions for myself? It's because I know he would be disappointed in me. I can feel it. Even though he said he understands that I still need my individual sessions, he also said that it would be very good if we can do marital sessions every couple of weeks for a double session, and by golly, that is what I am going to do even if it kills me! WTF? I have no idea who I am! I am powerless to do what I need to do for me. I can say I will- but I know I won't unless my T allows it by saying that's what he thinks I need to do. And I also know deeply that there is no way around this pain, there is no way to make this hurt less than it is going to anyway.

BB,

I'm sorry that you still have not heard back from your T. I imagine that he must be really busy or perhaps ill? I hope that you hear back soon. This limbo sounds really painful for you.

As far as the local T's. Perhaps you can find someone who does sliding scale. I'm not sure what you meant about social worker. My T is licensed as a social worker and she is definitely not free and does no sliding scale payments at all. It is full fee or you don't get services which I understand since she is private practice. There may be some services in your area that offer reduction in fees based on need, but I know there aren't many. Hopefully you can find a workable solution somehow. I hate the money issues get in the way of getting the treatment that people need. It isn't right.

(((hugs)))