Hi Yaku,

I’m sorry things are just so unrelentingly rough. It’s a very hard place to be. I see you doing everything you can to keep afloat, and I strongly admire that.

I am not in any way qualified to make a call on what you are describing here – like most of us. I am willing to guess, though, that what you are experiencing are manifestations of extreme ongoing stress, including messed up sleep. How long since you had a full night of proper sleep? How is your eating? When these routines get out of whack, so much of our other stuff gets increasingly stressed and disturbed.

This might help to make your experiences understandable, and ‘normal’ in the sense that this kind of experience would happen to anyone in your circumstances. But I also want to say this is NOT normal in the sense that it is something you should just accept, try to cope with or minimise. What you are describing sounds very frightening, and to me it sounds dangerous, given that you are driving and/or looking after children with this kind of thing happening.

I am not trying to freak you out, and I believe you are a wonderful and very competent mother. But your physical-emotional system is telling you that you are under far too much pressure, Yaku. Despite therapy, you are showing more symptoms of extreme stress rather than less. I think it is time to have a very specific, targetted talk to your T about these symptoms, and to ask for some objective tests on things like your levels of dissociation, depression, anxiety and so on. It may be that medication could help you deal with some of these symptoms until your system gets more in balance - or perhaps there are other sources of relief available, like additional help. Given that and the need for testing, it would be helpful if your T gets a colleague with a more clinical-psychology and/or psychiatric background to assist/consult on this. I think you should press for this, Yaku. You are showing many signs of fragility, and it is time things started getting better, rather than worse.

I want to see you get better, Yaku. I am frightened that things getting worse could cause many inadvertent problems for you and your family. It may be that your T understands what is going on, or it may be that he doesn't see the full picture, or that he can't see the woods for the trees at the moment, which is a possibility on occasion for any professional. Please do take steps to get extra care.

*Edit - I should say that others, especially those with experiences of dissociating in the ways that you describe - might well have different opinions. They would of course be well worth listening to!

Thinking of you and wishing you well,

Jones

Yaku - I lost an hour on Saturday night. Not really sure what happened but I was under a huge amount of painful stressors.

A normal responce, physiologically - to huge pain triggers.

Sometimes. months later I find out that a thing that makes no sense, like losing a journal entry, is revealed as a glitch, because it happens again. So I would not worry too much. I think you and me and several others here are under a lot of pressure/strain from past memories and old pain emerging - and it will unsettle things - so I think it is just normal.

I did something during that one hour gap - which I am still processing - but it is the amount of pain I am under that is causing this and I have to be very careful where I go and what I do. Your T does need to know . Also for me it is as though I now know my lovely sweetP will and is indeed there for me, does care, holds me emotionally with great sweet kindness and the 'grit my teeth and get on with life no matter what pain I am ' mentality has melted away under the security of his kindness and so in a strange way it is progress that sometimes I just go to bed or let go for a while, as I never could or would before.

Does that help?

Jones, Sadly, Draggers - Thanks for all your input.

Jones - My hope was just that others have experienced similar things, which although doesn't tell me the how/why of any of it, would make me feel, "It will be OK, it can be managed."

I don't know about how long it has been since I have gotten a good night's sleep, because even without my H's condition, I tend to wake up with nightmares, because of Boo talking or fussing in her sleep, etc. Since I moved to the floor, I no longer have insomnia...which actually sucks, because I keep falling asleep in bed while snuggling, when I do not mean to. Before, I would lay up for 45 minutes or more trying to sleep and now I fall asleep within 15 minutes and wake up realizing I need to move to the floor before something happens. I have been eating better than I was, but still just two meals a day, and occasionally a dessert too. I have a real struggle with either eating way too little or way too much, but I'm closer to the too much side right now, probably because I had to take provera to get my cycle.

Yeah, my biggest worries are driving and Boo. I had a car accident with our storage locker in our condo's garage in October, because I blanked out due to stressful thoughts/emotions about the holidays. H was on his France trip at that time and has a UK trip in a couple of weeks, so I am scared. I am MOST worried about Boo, but so far, something seems to keep me present when she is around/awake. I will sometimes get very sleepy, or bad thoughts, or "chatter," but as far as I can tell, no full blank outs when I'm taking care of her. But, since things are getting worse, I do worry.

I wanted to talk to T about this stuff last night, but it was last on my list that I had texted him and we didn't get to it. I have been texting him since last night, mostly because I am pretty freaked out. I'm waiting to hear back what he says. I keep getting really scared he is going to send me away to someone else. He'll think I'm lying or way too much for him to deal with and make me go. There is a clinical psychologist in his practice, but he costs about twice what T does, so there is no way I can afford that. Same thing with a psychiatrist. We have no mental health coverage at all...

I feel like I'm the one making things worse. I can't seem to keep moving too fast, no matter what I do. T has tried to slow me down, but my brain keeps churning, and now he's just trying to get me to a place where I feel completely safe letting my needs and thoughts surface at the speed they naturally do without having self-destructive internal responses.

I'm not sure if T knows what's going on or not. He had me pegged as highly dissociative a few sessions into our relationship, before I knowingly blanked out on him even once. He has asked me twice now, when I bring up "parts" or "states" if I can give them names, but I don't know if he means literally names or identify functionally what they're like.


Sadly - In this case, I do go back and forth. Maybe it was just a very strange glitch that deleted just this stuff I wrote and no other stuff, and preserved some other changes? Maybe I saved after changing some stuff and not after the other stuff or I just am not remembering correctly when I clearly recall saving and shutting it down that night. I am pretty sure that it's not a glitch, but then I get this internal argument that I am making stuff up, overreacting, etc. Since last night, a lot of back and forth with being freaked out and another part berating and accusing and trying to convince me not to tell T, because he won't understand or will think I'm lying/manipulating or will think I'm too much work and leave me. I have told him via text, which made for a very long text. Then, told him about my internal reaction to having shared that information. Will be really freaked until I hear back.


Draggers - Yeah, have officially told T (via text, so I can't change my mind). All the voices are internal. They are me, but not-me. What I mean by that is whatever thoughts/feelings/words/urges these parts have, I experience them as "me" or at least a part of me in the moment, but then once I switch to another mode of thinking/feeling, they don't feel relatable anymore, like "How could I be believe that about my T?" or "How could I be contemplating doing THAT?" They become not-me and don't make sense as an internal experience. I have described it like waking up from a dream where you were someone else who did stuff that you would never do. You get that the experience was internal, but you don't understand where it came from. It becomes something I can objectively analyze and kind of understand, but not feel very connected to, especially the very destructive inclinations and the intense feelings regarding T (either very needy or really paranoid).


I don't know if I'm making sense. I'm having a fuzzy head morning, because trying to "talk" about this stuff always makes me really sleepy. Worst part is that my H is in training this week, just down the street, but will be gone at least 12 hours everyday, so I will be all on my own with Boo all day long. Thinking of going to talk to my pastor about this stuff today, but scared I will freak him out.

Thanks, BG.

T got back to me and addressed my projections:

"All is still well here. No disgust, think you're great, really (I know that seems far-fetched to you). The texts are welcome as ever and you are absolutely positively NOT a burden (pinky swear)! Dr-"

No addressing the stuff that happened. Maybe I didn't make it clear enough or texted so much about how I was feeling that the actual stuff that is happening got lost. Let him know I am still freaking on how scary these experiences are and that THIS was the stuff I was angry that I didn't get time to discuss last night, because I need practical help here.

Have a feeling it won't get dealt with until Friday on the phone, so just need to ride the waves until then, try to calm myself down, find a way to not overreact without underreacting either...

I feel like his reaction tells me that I'm making too much of this whole experience...

Hi Yaku,

I'm really glad you told your T about this.

I understand the need to connect with others who have experienced similar things. I did want to say that about not being qualified because my feedback here falls in the realm of advice. For what it's worth, I have had the experience of talking out loud to myself involuntarily when under extreme stress (I'm not someone who ordinarily chats aloud to myself).

I'm glad it is getting easier to sleep, and that your eating is roughly ok. Those are really good things.

I still encourage you to think through ways to get more formal tests, and to talk this through with your T, as you say things are getting worse. Certainly it may be more expensive to see the clinical psych or p, but you may just need a couple of appointments. The way I see it, it would be cheaper than an accident. It would be cheaper than you stopping work because you get to a point where you can't function to do that.

I hesitate to bring this up, but I do so just as one of the options to consider: you have mentioned tithing before, and I understand this is a priority of faith. But I believe that there is a priority of health and safety that comes first, in order to keep body, mind and soul together.

I also want to say I get a powerful sense of your terror at losing your T. I don't believe that getting this checked out clinically will mean that you lose him. I think he understands the depth and nature of your attachment.

Yaku, I have a sense of being the grim reaper around here sometimes, turning up to say things people don't want to hear, and that's part of the reason I have been staying away more. But here's where I'm coming from: I don't like to see people getting worse instead of better. When I see that I want to be honest about my sense that it is time to do something different. I have a profound sense that life is short and precious, and that we shouldn't tolerate deterioration of our quality of life if we can do something about it. Sometimes someone being forthright can be a prompt for feeling *able* to do something about it. Sometimes not. In any case, mine is just one opinion.

Take care.

Jen

About your T missing the point with this: I get the impression that he's one of those Ts that sometimes needs to be hit with the clue-stick to keep up with the important stuff. Do that, Yaku.

Yaku,

It may be that if you see a psychiatrist (MD) that it would be covered under your regular medical coverage and not as mental health. It depends on the plan how that works.

I think it is very important that you tell your T about everything you are experiencing.

quote:

My hope was just that others have experienced similar things, which although doesn't tell me the how/why of any of it, would make me feel, "It will be OK, it can be managed."

It will be OK and it can be managed. However, it can also get really messy and really out of control if you don't have the skills in place and the right professional who understands dissociation and the complications that it can cause in your life. Sleep deprivation and not eating will all increase the likelihood of dissociating. Dissociation is a coping skill and anytime your resources are taxed (lack of sleep, food, rest etc.) it is harder to cope with everything else.

I agree with Jones, it is time to have a serious talk with your T and determine if he is able to help you and has the expertise and resources to do so. Once a week therapy is not typically enough for someone who is severely dissociative, especially during the trauma processing phases.

Sent him one text saying I had wanted to discuss it last night, because I need practical help with this stuff.

Then another saying: Ugh, feel the lack of addressing what is happening is you saying "You ARE overreacting. You blanked out, did stuff you can't remember. So what? Just ignore it."

I don't know if that's enough of a stick. He is busy, usually has appointments 9am to 9 or 10pm with only a small lunch break, so I really don't think anything will be worked on until Friday phone session.

**Triggers? References bad thoughts, but no details at all or actual acting out.**

STRM - crossposted, sorry.

Yeah, really trying to get a handle on sleeping/eating/getting out of the house more.

I feel like, I let a conversation tangentially related (on my SI/SU thoughts and how they were often related to different parts feelings about the needs arising in therapy) take over almost the whole session last night and we didn't get around to me sharing this stuff, so it's my fault.

We have therapy twice a week, once on Monday or Tuesday in person and phone session on Friday (which I have been paying him 1/2 for, though he would probably do it for free). He is only in my area on those two days, so if I picked up anymore than these two sessions, it would have to be another phone call and he doesn't really have time, anyway. Also, still not sure I would call any of this stuff "trauma." I go back on forth, feeling like that is an overreaction.

Really having trouble with feeling like I am making this into too much. Like, part of me wants to ignore/hide it and thinks if I just ignore it long enough, it will go away and I will be back to normal. I had this with my SU feelings when they first came up, like if I just hid them from T and everyone, they would go away. But, T told me not to hide, so I didn't. Telling T escalated my problems, because there was a side of me punishing for sharing. The same, "You're lying, making stuff up, manipulating, overreacting, weak for letting this stuff cause so many problems, T hates you, is sick of this," stuff. That's where I feel I am now with this stuff and it's hard to even know what is "true," with these competing, "This stuff is really happening and it's scary!" and "You have an overactive imagination...shut up already!" narratives. I guess memories (or lack there of) are evidence of a sort, but still...I'm confused.

quote:

like if I just hid them from T and everyone, they would go away. But, T told me not to hide, so I didn't. Telling T escalated my problems, because there was a side of me punishing for sharing.

This is a big clue right here. If possible, you might want to explore this angle with T and see if you can find out why this "part" is punishing you for talking, telling, sharing. It may be that this part isn't so much in the here and now and that can cause big problems.

Sorry, I forgot about the phone session as well. I find it difficult to do intense work on the phone, but if it works for you that is great. I just hate to see you continue to struggle so my responses are coming from that place.

I have trouble in person, because I get these strong desires to ask him to sit with me or for physical contact and then forceful stuffing reactions to those desires, which I assume can't be met, then usually blanking out (T knows this from my journals).

On the phone, I usually don't dissociate quite as badly, because I don't get these painful longings quite as strongly. I get the longing to feel connected, but not the whole pull of the physical proximity needs, since we're not in the same room. Then again, since that is most of what comes up for me, these feelings that are directed at my T, I'm not sure that stuff CAN be worked out over the phone...

I understand, STRM. I want it to get better too. But, huge inner fear and pain that the loss would be unbearable (that I would literally die) every time I think about maybe seeing another T.

OK, have not heard back from T on either of my last messages. Part of me knows he is probably just really busy, but I'm feeling really dismissed as if this is no big deal, doesn't matter, I'm stupid to be bringing it up to him, that I should just be rolling with the punches, so-to-speak, have faith that God will get me (all of me) through it, and all sorts of other messages that I twist from things he says in order to project his rejection of me and distance myself from his help and care.

Have lunch plans with my pastor, luckily only a five minute drive away, but kind of scared to drive, because my brain is fuzzy. 20 minutes to ground myself. Also, he chose an In-n-Out, so it will be crowded and hard to talk to him about this stuff. Maybe we'll just socialize and keep it light. Maybe human contact with someone who cares will be enough to get me through today. Another friend dropped off some stuff we left at her house, so at least I had someone to talk about something crappy that happened last night, get that off my chest. Argh, I hate this floating away feeling. Why can't I just stay FULLY here? I don't even have anything on my mind that is so upsetting that I should be dissociating. The only things on my mind are the dissociation itself, stuff with H and therapy and none of those seems like I have that strong of feelings about in this particular moment. So WHY am I going away?

Sorry to keep updating, I'm kind of trying to stay grounded by being here.

Lunch went OK, but...was backing up and people walked behind me (OK, mostly their fault for stepping behind a truck that was already backing up) and had to slam my breaks, freaked me out, because my attention level wasn't what it should have been. Then, when I was getting Boo out of the car, I had to let go over hand for a second to close the door and she dashed and almost got out into the parking lot (lots of cars) before I could grab her arm. Freaked out on whether I will be able to be a good caretaker with H gone when I am not "all there" so-to-speak. I mean, obviously, I did not hit these people and I did recognize that Boo was dashing and grab her before she got there...but I get scared anyway.

**Triggers?** Still haven't heard anything back from T. Kind of in a wash of very nasty feelings, but not being at all upset by them, like a "whatever happens" feeling about them, where I don't care about not caring about wanting to just be done. It's a strange place to be.

Every time I open my journal, my brain kind of freezes a bit, because it doesn't look like I last remember it looking (different page number and different text). Then, I get really sleepy. I want to write a journal entry about last night's session, because there were some things T said I wanted to address and a question for take home, but I guess I'll nap, because every time I see the journal, I can barely keep my eyes open. Not my need-a-nap tiredness, but my system-shutting-down sleepiness taking over. I hate this feeling. It's very disconnecting.

Yaku,

When I first started seeing this T, I was going through some really wierd stuff. Twice I left the car in drive and got out of it. The first time, it went rolling into my sisters garage. The second time my son was in the car. Some time later, we were at an aquarium, looking down into a big tank with a bunch of fish. All of a sudden I had a thought that I was going to drop my baby into the tank and I backed away. But I was so afraid that the thought was to drop her in on purpose. And, then my older daughter came running over to me from the other side of the tank and said, don't drop the baby in the tank, making it even worse. Well, that happened after one stressful night in bed. I had a CRAZY thought that I should smother the baby and make my life easier. Immediately, I was so horrified by this thought that I couldn't sleep all night because I was afraid I would sleep walk or something and do something bad to her. But it made me realize how much stress I was under.

I remember telling T about all these thoughts and he was very compassionate and understanding although I don't know why, especially about the smothering one. It was one of those thoughts that just pops into your head that you can't control. He said the thing about the tank was actually a protective mechanism. I'm not sure what he thought about my other thoughts. I didn't even remember this until I read your post above. It was such an awful time in my life. I felt as though I couldn't trust myself. I was really stressed out. I'm not sure how much has changed. Still really stressed but at least I'm not having those thoughts anymore.

It can be really scary when you don't trust yourself. I remember how awful it feels not to get enough sleep when the kids are little. It's really hard. And, you are under a lot of stress with your H going away. Hope you can find some extra support during this really trying time. And try to talk to T about it all.



(((HUGS)))

Liese

Yaku ~
I typed a response but then accidentally deleted it. I have just enough time to try to re-type some of it, and will come back to comment more later when I can. Right now I do want to mention this part, as best as I can.

First and foremost: you are a good mom. You are a good mom who is really hurting and has a TON of huge things on your plate. Anyone dealing with even much less difficult circumstances and stuff would be struggling a lot too.

I have been in dissociative states where I have lost time and done self sabotaging things. I have also been in a dissociative state where I didn’t even lose time, but seriously wrecked my car… just because I had a slightly slower reaction time.

Please do not make the same mistakes I have.

Please do talk with your T about it. Please also reach out – perhaps at your church – for support while your H is gone. When I have been in really rough spots, there were a couple people at my church who would just come and hang out with me for the day, or I would go hang out at their houses for the day. Most of them were stay at home moms – and I’d help with the kids, but they were always “in charge” and they would kind of keep an extra eye on me. My pastor helped me get this support, and it was totally hard to receive, but the people who helped me (who I barely even knew of at all – and one person I totally didn’t know) were super helpful and totally not weird about it. He picked a couple of very understanding good families, who said they didn’t even need to know all the details, but just that I was in a rough place and it would be good to have someone around. It really helped me get through a rough couple of weeks in my life last year when I was transitioning out of intensive treatment. Just having them around really helped. They were extra eyes and ears to make sure I was ok. I felt safer too. I slept like a rock – which I really needed – just because I was out of my normal environment. Even when I only hung with them during the day, it helped. They helped me get places too. I bet there are people in your church who would LOVE to be around and help be just simply an extra set of eyes and ears in watching your daughter – if only to let you get some rest and extra space. I know of a mom in our church who has her H gone firefighting often, and people will come over and just help her watch her son (I have been one of them) while she is there – for free. It’s partly just so that she has company, an extra pair of hands, an adult to talk to (and not just little kid) about anything and just to be there. I have been there and just studied while she did laundry and her son played. I got a lot out of it, and so did she. I also know older couples have come over and they loved being there too.

As you already know, with your daughter, it makes it extra important to be extra safe. I’m not saying you are not capable of driving and being safe and keeping her safe… I’m just saying you don’t want to find out the hard way if it turns out you happen to have moments where you were not safe enough to have those reaction be fast enough… My accident was caused because my reaction time was just a little shorter… You are already very sleep deprived (at least it sounds like it from other posts) and lacking sleep is one of the biggest things that lowers my dissociative threshold.

They also say that sleep deprivation can impair reaction time just like alcohol. (I was given that info when I was looking for driving classes trying to convince myself it was anything other than being dissociative – but my T and doctor finally have me accepting it was because I was just zoned out a little too much and my reaction time was slowed due to the dissociation). You may be totally fine driving. I can’t say if you are or if you are not. We are generally not the best judges of that for ourselves.

Just please please reach out… if you need any advice on how to talk to your pastor or anything about doing this – please let me know. I have gone through it and it honestly probably saved my life when I didn’t even know it.

Please… get some extra help and support around you. Even now, before your H goes – it would be totally appropriate and a good idea in some way. If only so that you can get some rest and let your heart/body/mind recover a bit – so that you can be stronger when you dive back into things later on. Again, I want to say loud and clear, you are a good mom. You just are in a season where it seems like you really need some extra support and help – as anyone would in your shoes! Naturally… normally… and that I can normalize. My heartbreaks for the struggle and pain you are in. If my words sound too strong, please know it’s just because I care deeply about you. This is just my perspective and feedback - you can totally ignore it if it is all off the mark.

~ jd

Liese, Jane, thank you a lot.


I know sleep deprivation does play into it...but I don't feel as sleep deprived as usual (sad), so I'm not sure how much.

I do know there is a friend who would help with my daughter, but she is pregnant, and watches her own seven-year-old, one-year-old and another friend's five-year-old and one-year-old, so I really save that for when I absolutely need it (like going to therapy when H is out of town). I told my pastor today what's going on with me and I was worried about while my H was out of town, about having another car accident, etc. It didn't occur to me to ask for help, but I know he will check in with me extra, just because that is the sort of guy he is. As far as I know, there is only one other mom who is home with their kids at our church, not at a full-time job, and she also has her own brood and watches another church-member's, so it's hard for me to imagine asking her help, especially since I don't know her well. My older sister will help a bit, but her being around stresses me out more. I know I will be OK in the long run if I wait this out. I just want some immediate relief and to know my treatment is headed in the right direction. I'm so disoriented, I don't know which way is up...

Edit: This sounds a bit self-defeating. I will try to come up with a way to better verbalize my need for support while H is out of town to my pastor, because you are right. At the very least, having people praying for me couldn't hurt, even if no one is available to help me out in other ways.