I know I have attachment issues and an emotional part stuck in the separation cry but it was so great to read this article and be able to say, that's me, that's me. Here's the link:
Adult Separation Anxiety Disorder
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Me, too, me too. When did this start for you Leise? Has it always been this way for you?
I'm so glad I'm not the only one, and so sad I'm not the only one.
I'm so glad I'm not the only one, and so sad I'm not the only one.
Hi MMM,
At least there is something that can be done about it, right? I didn't realize I had attachment issues until 1 1/2 years ago. When I look back now, I think I always struggled with it, sometimes its symptoms flaring up more than at other times.
How about you?
How
At least there is something that can be done about it, right? I didn't realize I had attachment issues until 1 1/2 years ago. When I look back now, I think I always struggled with it, sometimes its symptoms flaring up more than at other times.
How about you?
How
Hi Liese,
I thought of you (or your image anyway) last night when I was watching Dr. Who. And there was a beautiful siren that looked like your avatar.
I've always had insecure attachment, and I can see now how that doomed many of my relationships. I'm also highly sensitive, so I was super aware of little things (like a facial expression, or a lengthy period of time in returning a text or call). But that highly sensitive nature was turned into hyper-vigilance by my traumatic childhood. But I had no idea that my injured child self (that I call 13 or 6) had been interrupting my perceptions. So I would think, FEEL actually, OMG, something is terribly wrong, my alarms are all going off, why don't they love me, why isn't this safe? Never knowing that it was a mixture of insecure attachment and PTSD/Trauma stuff coming up.
But all of this stuff really ran in the background for me with my wife. We have been married for 11 years. And while I have never loved her traveling or being at work for a zillion hours, I handled it (and she never traveled, really). There were flare ups when I felt danger, but it was when I felt the danger of someone getting too close to her for my comfort, or her wanting someone else in her life that seemed threatening. So most of my attachment stuff was mostly activated around threats of "others" coming in and taking her away.
But 4 years ago I had a traumatic pregnancy/birth. My son is fine. But I went from a person working full time, 2 jobs (one with my wife which we really enjoyed), to suddenly on bed rest from 12 weeks - 38 weeks. My son was in very real danger the whole time. There were ambulance rides, and multiple crazy traumatic situations where I could feel myself leave my body. So, at the very moment when 13/6 were being shaken awake, at the place of the biggest terror of my life, my wife was within arms reach of me. I literally leaned on her, and looked at her, just to *keep breathing* each breath. I was bound so tightly to her. She took completely off from work, and literally just held my hand through all of it.
The we had a crazy birth where both the baby and I almost didn't make it.
But we were both fine. And my wife, who had been out of work for months, went back to work 2 weeks after my son was born. And for the first time, I was home alone, no job, two kids, an arm that was surgically repaired, a c-section, no family in the area, no identity, and no wife. She went back to work with 10+ hour days and she was having deep and meaningful connections in her work relationships. 13/6 were abandoned, they were overwhelmed, they were unsafe. They were screaming.
And I think I lost my mind. I had trauma responses, I was literally running away when things got intense, we didn't understand each other, it was awful. I was in so much pain. She was so confused.
Things were kinda up and down for a long time. Things got better. Things got worse. In November, I had a big reaction (trauma response for several days, ugh) to something that my wife chose to do. I went into therapy.
But I think this is the *worst* my attachment fears have ever been (since staring therapy). My T explains that I have brought 13/6 into the light - she is literally alight in my consciousness and so I am dealing with her feelings and needs and fears more than I ever have before. It feels, sometimes, like I am going insane, and I can, often, resent 13 for making me feel so *bad* and making me behave like what feels like a *bad* wife.
But, depending on the day, I can tolerate that my wife goes to work, or I can struggle, or I can get all the way to trauma hijack. And in the last 18 months she has begun to travel every couple of months to days-long retreats with people that are very important to her, and that is completely triggering, hijacking, miserable for me (she travels again this weekend).
I feel a little strange that I don't have these feelings for my T as so many of you do. For me, it's all her.
Can you tell me more about the "separation cry"? Sometimes when she leaves for work I can feel myself wanting to go out of my body. And when she travels, I'm a mess, trying to stay grounded but let 13 have her feelings and needs, trying to avoid full scale meltdown. ACK!
I thought of you (or your image anyway) last night when I was watching Dr. Who. And there was a beautiful siren that looked like your avatar.
I've always had insecure attachment, and I can see now how that doomed many of my relationships. I'm also highly sensitive, so I was super aware of little things (like a facial expression, or a lengthy period of time in returning a text or call). But that highly sensitive nature was turned into hyper-vigilance by my traumatic childhood. But I had no idea that my injured child self (that I call 13 or 6) had been interrupting my perceptions. So I would think, FEEL actually, OMG, something is terribly wrong, my alarms are all going off, why don't they love me, why isn't this safe? Never knowing that it was a mixture of insecure attachment and PTSD/Trauma stuff coming up.
But all of this stuff really ran in the background for me with my wife. We have been married for 11 years. And while I have never loved her traveling or being at work for a zillion hours, I handled it (and she never traveled, really). There were flare ups when I felt danger, but it was when I felt the danger of someone getting too close to her for my comfort, or her wanting someone else in her life that seemed threatening. So most of my attachment stuff was mostly activated around threats of "others" coming in and taking her away.
But 4 years ago I had a traumatic pregnancy/birth. My son is fine. But I went from a person working full time, 2 jobs (one with my wife which we really enjoyed), to suddenly on bed rest from 12 weeks - 38 weeks. My son was in very real danger the whole time. There were ambulance rides, and multiple crazy traumatic situations where I could feel myself leave my body. So, at the very moment when 13/6 were being shaken awake, at the place of the biggest terror of my life, my wife was within arms reach of me. I literally leaned on her, and looked at her, just to *keep breathing* each breath. I was bound so tightly to her. She took completely off from work, and literally just held my hand through all of it.
The we had a crazy birth where both the baby and I almost didn't make it.
But we were both fine. And my wife, who had been out of work for months, went back to work 2 weeks after my son was born. And for the first time, I was home alone, no job, two kids, an arm that was surgically repaired, a c-section, no family in the area, no identity, and no wife. She went back to work with 10+ hour days and she was having deep and meaningful connections in her work relationships. 13/6 were abandoned, they were overwhelmed, they were unsafe. They were screaming.
And I think I lost my mind. I had trauma responses, I was literally running away when things got intense, we didn't understand each other, it was awful. I was in so much pain. She was so confused.
Things were kinda up and down for a long time. Things got better. Things got worse. In November, I had a big reaction (trauma response for several days, ugh) to something that my wife chose to do. I went into therapy.
But I think this is the *worst* my attachment fears have ever been (since staring therapy). My T explains that I have brought 13/6 into the light - she is literally alight in my consciousness and so I am dealing with her feelings and needs and fears more than I ever have before. It feels, sometimes, like I am going insane, and I can, often, resent 13 for making me feel so *bad* and making me behave like what feels like a *bad* wife.
But, depending on the day, I can tolerate that my wife goes to work, or I can struggle, or I can get all the way to trauma hijack. And in the last 18 months she has begun to travel every couple of months to days-long retreats with people that are very important to her, and that is completely triggering, hijacking, miserable for me (she travels again this weekend).
I feel a little strange that I don't have these feelings for my T as so many of you do. For me, it's all her.
Can you tell me more about the "separation cry"? Sometimes when she leaves for work I can feel myself wanting to go out of my body. And when she travels, I'm a mess, trying to stay grounded but let 13 have her feelings and needs, trying to avoid full scale meltdown. ACK!
Hi MMM,
I wrote out a long response this morning but somehow lost it.
I went through a very similar experience with my 2nd child, c-section and all. It was really hard and I spent a lot of time crying too. My Ob/Gyn told me that the 2nd child seems to be the hardest and bring up the most emotions. I was so attached to my first and felt as though I was betraying her by loving another child.
It must be hard that your wife has so many meaningful relationships outside of your relationship. I suppose it would be okay if you had a secure attachment style but I know I would struggle with it too. And those weekend retreats must be really hard. I take it you are not included? Is she empathic towards your feelings?
The separation cry is hard for me to describe. There are three phases of separation. The first one is protest. The second, despair. And the last one, detachment. Detachment sounds a bit odd to me right now because I don't think you are really supposed to detach. I think you are supposed to be able to hold onto the connection. I'm a bit confused there myself. There are others here that understand it better than I and maybe someone can explain it to both of us? TN??? Maybe the detachment describes how the disorganized style or avoid ant style develops. Anyway, I have an emotional part stuck in despair. I never got to detachment. Part of me experiences detachment and disconnection so I do have that part as well. But I've also got the part stuck in despair. Last year was rough for me and I didn't function well. I would feel physical pain when I left my T and then go home and cry a lot.
The pain has definitely subsided but we've had to spend a significant amount of time on the part of me stuck in despair. T had allowed out of session contact in the past but didn't really encourage it. In addition, there were some things he said that broke our connection. He thought he was being professional and didn't understand how I was reacting to it on an emotional level. Looking back now, I think I was only reacting to it on an emotional level and those emotions only had a certain interpretation of events. Actually, I wasn't capable of reacting to it in any other way. He's worked really hard since then to gain my trust and I am finding that I'm truly experiencing his care when I'm not with him. I am able to be in the present emotionally more often as opposed to feeling like I have to hang on to all this anxiety in order to maintain my connection with him.
So many different strands of it all. It is taking a lot of work to straighten it all out.
There are a couple of people here (and I can't remember off the top of my head who they are) who aren't as attached to their T's as their SO's so you are not alone there. I had gone on a consult about a year and a half ago and the consult told me that my T was using the relationship (to do the therapy). And then he made a comment like, "well, I would too. I don't like your husband either, from what you've told me." And so, I couldn't help but wonder if my T deliberately worked to make me attach to him (to the extent that he was comfortable with at the time) in order to break the bond between me and my H. I am not a battered woman but he has told me that my relationship with my H is unhealthy. I think it's all been about my H's needs and being stuck in despair, I've been reacting pretty helplessly and hopelessly to my life circumstances.
But there was also that part of me that couldn't admit my attachment to my T for a long time. My T told me at one point that it all depends on what a particular person needs. Maybe there is some stuff going on for you that is hindering the attachment to your T? Have you talked to your T about it?
It's been nice talking to you.
Liese
I wrote out a long response this morning but somehow lost it.
I went through a very similar experience with my 2nd child, c-section and all. It was really hard and I spent a lot of time crying too. My Ob/Gyn told me that the 2nd child seems to be the hardest and bring up the most emotions. I was so attached to my first and felt as though I was betraying her by loving another child. It must be hard that your wife has so many meaningful relationships outside of your relationship. I suppose it would be okay if you had a secure attachment style but I know I would struggle with it too. And those weekend retreats must be really hard. I take it you are not included? Is she empathic towards your feelings?
The separation cry is hard for me to describe. There are three phases of separation. The first one is protest. The second, despair. And the last one, detachment. Detachment sounds a bit odd to me right now because I don't think you are really supposed to detach. I think you are supposed to be able to hold onto the connection. I'm a bit confused there myself. There are others here that understand it better than I and maybe someone can explain it to both of us? TN??? Maybe the detachment describes how the disorganized style or avoid ant style develops. Anyway, I have an emotional part stuck in despair. I never got to detachment. Part of me experiences detachment and disconnection so I do have that part as well. But I've also got the part stuck in despair. Last year was rough for me and I didn't function well. I would feel physical pain when I left my T and then go home and cry a lot.
The pain has definitely subsided but we've had to spend a significant amount of time on the part of me stuck in despair. T had allowed out of session contact in the past but didn't really encourage it. In addition, there were some things he said that broke our connection. He thought he was being professional and didn't understand how I was reacting to it on an emotional level. Looking back now, I think I was only reacting to it on an emotional level and those emotions only had a certain interpretation of events. Actually, I wasn't capable of reacting to it in any other way. He's worked really hard since then to gain my trust and I am finding that I'm truly experiencing his care when I'm not with him. I am able to be in the present emotionally more often as opposed to feeling like I have to hang on to all this anxiety in order to maintain my connection with him.
So many different strands of it all. It is taking a lot of work to straighten it all out.
There are a couple of people here (and I can't remember off the top of my head who they are) who aren't as attached to their T's as their SO's so you are not alone there. I had gone on a consult about a year and a half ago and the consult told me that my T was using the relationship (to do the therapy). And then he made a comment like, "well, I would too. I don't like your husband either, from what you've told me." And so, I couldn't help but wonder if my T deliberately worked to make me attach to him (to the extent that he was comfortable with at the time) in order to break the bond between me and my H. I am not a battered woman but he has told me that my relationship with my H is unhealthy. I think it's all been about my H's needs and being stuck in despair, I've been reacting pretty helplessly and hopelessly to my life circumstances.
But there was also that part of me that couldn't admit my attachment to my T for a long time. My T told me at one point that it all depends on what a particular person needs. Maybe there is some stuff going on for you that is hindering the attachment to your T? Have you talked to your T about it?
It's been nice talking to you.
Liese
(((((AG))))))
Oh, that was such a good book! Thanks for posting that. I lent mine to someone and never got it back.
So despair sets in after a prolonged separation? Which is longer the the "mammal" can tolerate?
Or is it only because of the insecure attachment that the mammal falls into despair?
In other words, if the mammal had a secure attachment, after protest, they wouldn't necessarily fall into despair if the AF didn't return quickly enough?
Can you tell us about the separation phases, if they are different, when there is a secure attachment?
TX,
Liese
Oh, that was such a good book! Thanks for posting that. I lent mine to someone and never got it back.
So despair sets in after a prolonged separation? Which is longer the the "mammal" can tolerate?
Or is it only because of the insecure attachment that the mammal falls into despair?
In other words, if the mammal had a secure attachment, after protest, they wouldn't necessarily fall into despair if the AF didn't return quickly enough?
Can you tell us about the separation phases, if they are different, when there is a secure attachment?
TX,
Liese
AG, that describes EXACTLY what I experienced when oldT abandoned me. I have experienced romantic break-ups in my past but this (because of the nature of my attachment to oldT) was pure agony and hell on earth. That passage of GTOL describes it so accurately. I talked about this with my T today and it was such an awful period of my life I think my brain has blocked some of the intense memory out in a protective defense.
I would not wish this on anyone.
And although I feel a small measure of this in separating from my current T, I logically know that we will be reunited again after a period of time and am trying to hold onto the connection. And I do know I can email or call him if I need him. That makes all the difference in the world.
TN
I would not wish this on anyone.
And although I feel a small measure of this in separating from my current T, I logically know that we will be reunited again after a period of time and am trying to hold onto the connection. And I do know I can email or call him if I need him. That makes all the difference in the world.
TN
((((((TN)))))))
(((((AG))))))
Please take your time and take care of yourself. Of course, I hope you come back soon and expand. But only when you are feeling up to it.
Liese
(((((AG))))))
Please take your time and take care of yourself. Of course, I hope you come back soon and expand. But only when you are feeling up to it.
Liese
The wolves are resourceful you can feed yourself ..
" Give what you can and take what you need these arms are wide open and here when you leave I know you must go soon so go plant good seeds be careful which of the 2 wolves that you feed" -wookiefoot
There is a third side of the coin it is truth and responsibility to self
" Give what you can and take what you need these arms are wide open and here when you leave I know you must go soon so go plant good seeds be careful which of the 2 wolves that you feed" -wookiefoot
There is a third side of the coin it is truth and responsibility to self
Hello,
I have a different problem which I hope you can all help me with.
I have a strong codependent link with my wife of 20 years. I believe I have a very bad case of ASAD and I'm just now seeing that I've had it all my life.
After 20 years, my wife is worn out with my constant neediness, my need for reassurance, my lack of self esteem, my inability to keep stable emotionally. She is leaving me and it is killing me.
My wife has issues of her own that have kept her with me. She is a caretaker and has filled in the huge hole in my personality. But she has woken up from this and now cannot stand to do so any more.
I have sought professional help and am trying to find a support group (I've gone to some CODA and SLAA meetings - the SLAA one was better for me).
Does anyone else have this? Is there any hope or help? I am really lost.
Thanks if you read this and more thanks if you respond.
I have a different problem which I hope you can all help me with.
I have a strong codependent link with my wife of 20 years. I believe I have a very bad case of ASAD and I'm just now seeing that I've had it all my life.
After 20 years, my wife is worn out with my constant neediness, my need for reassurance, my lack of self esteem, my inability to keep stable emotionally. She is leaving me and it is killing me.
My wife has issues of her own that have kept her with me. She is a caretaker and has filled in the huge hole in my personality. But she has woken up from this and now cannot stand to do so any more.
I have sought professional help and am trying to find a support group (I've gone to some CODA and SLAA meetings - the SLAA one was better for me).
Does anyone else have this? Is there any hope or help? I am really lost.
Thanks if you read this and more thanks if you respond.
Hey SWP,
Sorry I missed this. Welcome. It does sound like you have ASAD. Have you thought about finding a therapist?
Sorry I missed this. Welcome. It does sound like you have ASAD. Have you thought about finding a therapist?
Liese:
Thanks for the response. Yes, I have found a therapist. But my situation seems unusual and the therapist's guidance is a long term approach. I haven't mentioned ASAD to him but he acknowledges my separation anxiety.
I would like to know if others have this codepedency issue with their significant others. It took me by surprise and now I'm really suffering.
Thanks.
Thanks for the response. Yes, I have found a therapist. But my situation seems unusual and the therapist's guidance is a long term approach. I haven't mentioned ASAD to him but he acknowledges my separation anxiety.
I would like to know if others have this codepedency issue with their significant others. It took me by surprise and now I'm really suffering.
Thanks.
Hi SWP,
I think a lot of us here have had issues with separation - from our therapists. You will get a lot of support here with this issue. You happened to post in the book forum. Why not try to post in coffee chat or in the questions about my shrink or therapy?
I think a lot of us here have had issues with separation - from our therapists. You will get a lot of support here with this issue. You happened to post in the book forum. Why not try to post in coffee chat or in the questions about my shrink or therapy?