(((TN)))

I don't think you're intentionally doing this at all. I think it might just take you 40-45 minutes to really settle in and be able to really get in touch with your emotions. I guess...what I mean is that, in my case, it takes me a while to find the best way to articulate what I'm thinking or feeling (if it's something come up from the past). I wouldn't be able to get anything done in 45 minutes. When my T first brought up how I seem to not be able to contain everything enough to leave in a good place, I felt in trouble too. I felt like I must be making my T frustrated and angry that I couldn't get it together within the time limits that so many others do. Of course she wasn't, and I was lucky that we were able to work something out, but I've been there.

Do you think that, had you talked more about oldT earlier in the session, you would have gotten in touch with that grief earlier? In that case, it seems like there just needs to be more priority put on the grief over oldT so that you can try and get to it earlier in the session.

Anyway, sorry if none of that helps. At the very least, I'm really sorry about this rough patch you're going through with your T.

((((TN))))

I want to reply more but don't have a lot of time right now. So I will be brief. Maybe you are judging yourself too harshly. I would like to go into therapy and just be able to jump right into things within the first 5 minutes and it's always been so frustrating that I can't. And, like you, I have the 45 minutes sessions and by the time I got my nerve up to bring up what I really wanted to spend time on, it was almost nearly at the end. And also, like you, I was often frustrated.

For me, the difference has been that since I've become more comfortable with T, I'm able to jump into the hard stuff sooner. But it's taken a really time to get there and to have that intimacy.

I totally agree that the 45 minutes really suck. But maybe it's not that you are wrong or bad for bringing things up at the end. It could just take you a while to get comfortable.

Just wanted to give you another spin on it so you don't beat yourself up mercilessly.

((((TN))))

Liese

Thanks for the response, Kashley. Can I ask how you worked out the difficulty in working within the 45 minute session? Only if you feel you want to share that. I feel really hopeless about this and if I can't make myself work in this way then I feel like I can't work with this T. I'm feeling sort of backed into a corner right now. I feel like I'm making him frustrated because I can't do it right. I don't know how.

Liese...thanks for your comments. Maybe after 2 more years I'll be able to feel that it's easier to jump into the hard stuff right away. But in this case, with what we were talking about... I didn't have any plan to dive into any really hard stuff or any trauma stuff. We were just talking and it come on me suddenly and unexpectedly. How can I plan for something that I have not planned for??

I'm feeling awful.
TN

Oh hey TN big hugs
I have been wondering how you were after your meeting with oldT and anniversaries.
I am so sorry you are feeling so awful. It feels a bit to me like you are in unchartered territories as now this is about you and this therapeutic relationship and not dealing with all the pain due to oldT abandonment.
I only have 50 minute sessions but myT is excellent about her time keeping. In 4 years we have only once started late and that was because I was late. I would not handle her being late at all well. Let alone if it was because she was with another client!! Awful euww feelings there. Have you talked to him about how his being late makes you feel?
After a while I got much better at getting straight into heavy stuff but I definitely don't think you should berate yourself if you aren't doing that. It will be because of something and when you have unravelled why that is you will have gained a greater understanding.
From what you have posted before he sounds like a good T. I am sure you will be able to work through this. Although that won't stop this hurting like hell.
Keep your nerve and know that you are not alone
xxxx

Hey TN,

Well, the first thing we did was to leave 10 to 15 minutes at the end of the session to talk about the weather and other mundane stuff so that I wouldn't leave dissociated or just still in the thick of everything (which does cut into the time, but to me it's more important to leave in an okay place). I never keep track of time...T is always really good about leaving that time. It's been really essential that she help me with the time, because if she knows or senses there's something heavy coming on, she'll kind of subtly say something about the time and try to keep me from getting completely sucked into something. A couple sessions ago we were about a quarter of the way through a 50 minute session and I was trying to tell her something hard, and we tried to work out a way that I could tell her in a way that didn't throw me into this spiral that took an hour to get out of. Even though it doesn't make it a whole lot easier getting into any meaningful material with a 45 or 50 minute session, it does help to trust T with the time completely.

There's good and bad about being reminded about the time, of course, because it kind of reminds me that I'm just an hour or so of her time. On the other hand, it can also be seen as caring that she doesn't want me to leave in a bad place.

Anyway, the other solution has been longer sessions. I'm lucky that I'm able to do that, but it also doesn't happen all the time, especially with classes started again. Does your T ever offer sessions after 5? When I was having a really hard time last year, T did give me a couple later sessions since I just couldn't make an earlier session. Do you think your T would be open to that on occasion?

I'm sorry you're feeling so bad.

((((TN))))

I'm sorry that the session wasn't what you were hoping for and that it actually turned out to be quite difficult for you. I don't think you are failing at therapy at all. Therapy can just really suck sometimes.

Big hugs,

Liese

(((TN)))

I'm sorry that your session was disappointing for you. I agree that therapy just sucks sometimes. I know that you don't fail at therapy unless you quit. As long as you are going then you are working on things.

As for the time problem I can relate. I can remember a session where my T told me that I make therapy more difficult for myself by only allowing my feelings in the last 10 minutes of a session or just after I left when all I could do is email or talk to his machine. I thought he was frustrated as well because he had more edge in his voice than usual. He told me he wasn't blaming me but was giving me info and wanted to find a way that I could allow my feelings into the session. I don't think I believed he wasn't frustrated until we had more sessions and talked about it more.

I think I've been able to get into the feelings faster sometimes because I've been in therapy longer and developed more of our relationship. Unfortunately that isn't a quick fix but I think it happens slowly. I hope you go back and try and talk about how it feels to be blamed for something and how you are afraid that you can't do therapy with him because you aren't doing it "right". You could try using the end of a session for lighter talk and allow him to keep track of the time but I haven't found that helpful for me although I've learned his cues for our time is coming to an end.

be gentle with yourself,
Di

(((TN))) You are not failing at therapy. I think it would be really hard to work with 45 minutes. I agree that perhaps your T could have brought it up later when you weren't already upset.

I'm sorry that you are struggling with triggers and having a hard time.

(((TN))) I'm sorry that your anniversary session left you feeling disconnected. Shorter sessions never worked for me either. Even long sessions, it takes me forever to open up. When T has said the same thing as your therapist has in the past, I have felt in trouble. He just keeps emphasizing that we work on safety so those vulnerable parts of me feel OK bringing stuff up even when there isn't the pressure of the ending of the session. But, it doesn't sound to me as if this was something that was pressing on you and you withheld until the end. If it was, a strategy I have used is to compile an agenda on my phone (text) or in my journal (I take notes in therapy) and force myself to share that agenda with T, so he knows the things that need to be touched on in that session. It's hard if it comes up right in the middle of the session, though. I hope your T and you can work through this together. I'm really sorry longer sessions aren't a possibility. I know that is something you really feel you'd benefit from. I'm sorry that I'm one of those people who might trigger that stuff.

I am having a similar issue and Liese might have nailed it. I can't just jump in and start my deep secret unloading when I get there - it takes a while to warm up and by the time I think - yeah I will tackle that - it is too late. I am feeling very unfulfilled.

TN - Would it help if you saw T once a week - but double the timeslot?

((((TN))))))

I had another thought that I wanted to share with you. What if there is a part of you that is just so sad that the sessions are coming to an end? What if you are just simply going to miss T? And that's why you start crying. What is so wrong with that? That's sweet, IMO. You love another human being. You are going to miss another human being. You feel positive about another human being. Well, I don't think that's cause for a huge inquisition. You are just human, with human needs.

And, if that's why you burst into tears towards the end of the session, I'd hardly call that manipulative. That's just your expression of the impending separation and loss.


TN, when I went away to college the first time, I was scheduled to come home for Thanksgiving. I called home in October, very homesick and in tears and wanted to come home for an unscheduled visit. And my Dad told me I was up to my old tricks again and I was being manipulative. I believed him until a couple of years ago when I saw my friends being so concerned about their children's adjustment to their first year at college. It was only then that I was able to see a different slant on things. However, how do you think I feel when I want to be close to someone or when I scared and need comforting? I always think I'm being manipulative.

I'm wondering here if you received the same type of "warm" reception to your emotional needs that I did from your parents?

((((TN))))

Liese

Wow TN I am so so sorry you had such a disconnecting and unhappy ending to your last session, and it being your anniversary session too . It’s bad enough that you suddenly dropped into a really painful and sad place when session time was running out, but your T’s comment was just way out of line. At the least it was lousy timing but also does show quite a bit of (uncharacteristic I have to say) insensitivity. Though I get that he wasn’t intending to be critical and wanted you both to work on understanding why this is happening, I relate very much to how you are feeling about it, that it would have come across as critical and accusatory and telling you you’re doing something wrong. And I wonder why he had to say that he wanted to understand why ‘this’ is happening, as if it’s something that happens regularly? Is it something that you find happening a lot? If that were so then maybe there is some justification for his throwing it at you like that (some, but not much!) but I don’t get the impression that this is something happening a lot with you.

And (hindsight of course) it would have been so much better for him to have helped you get grounded and say that you’ll continue with it next session, and then NEXT session bring up his concerns about how you and he could avoid this happening again, so that you don’t end up leaving disconnected. So now it looks like this will have to the topic for next session anyway.

TN I love what Liese said in her last post, she’s actually put into words something that I was wondering about. That you’ve gone straight to feeling like he thinks you’re trying to manipulate him, well that’s your perception not what he’s said, so there must be something in you that’s making you experience him seeing you that way. And that you feel like a greedy selfish horrible person ( which is so not true) isn’t coming from him either, but from your past experience.

Having said that, being told in the very midst of painful tears that ‘we have to work out why you’re doing this’ would make even the most secure self confident person feel like they’re doing something wrong, so it’s perfectly understandable that you’ve be feeling so totally crap about it all.

Why have your sessions gone down from 50 minutes to 45? Got to chime in with the others here, and also totally see what you mean, that 45 minutes just isn’t long enough to achieve very much unless you’re capable of coming straight in the door and ‘getting on with it’ immediately. But who can do that? It does take time to wind down and settle in and get in touch with what’s going on in you. Actually even 50 minutes isn’t long enough (as I’m finding myself now ) 60 minutes is still more or less the optimal therapy time I reckon. I expect you will be talking about all these issues in your next session and if your T is keen to work with you to prevent your having to leave sessions in disconnect mode then it might be possible that you can negotiate different session times. At the least, ensure that he keeps HIS time boundary – I think that letting a previous client run over into YOUR time, and then not making it up to you is really unfair. If you are running into problems with being able to say what you need and having to leave uncontained, then the least he could do is make sure you get the full amount of time right from the start.

I’m wondering here though whether you aren’t feeling too guilty to confront him about his allowing other clients to run into your time, because of how he rearranged other clients to accommodate that double session you had with OldT? I remember your saying that you would never query again if he had to cancel on your or rearrange your appointments because you understood it was for a good reason, but maybe that’s now making you feel guilty about feeling bad for losing precious minutes of your regular sessions?

And I’m really sorry he invalidated your bringing in your childhood pictures . I hated the image I got of his suddenly getting up and opening the blinds, that is SO dismissive, so much sending the message, ok go away now this doesn’t interest me. So it’s not just parallels with the same thing happening with OldT, but something real your T did in the here and now.

I also relate very much to how you describe your T as not displaying any emotion that you can pick up in a right brained way. He obviously is eminently capable of verbalising all sorts of warm emotional things to you, but maybe isn’t reaching you on a non verbal level. I’ve found over the years with all the many different Ts I’ve seen, that that is actually profoundly important to me. Not necessarily an open display of emotion on T’s part, but a sense the s/he is closely following how I feel and is able to say or more importantly do/express in some way that s/he is affected by my feelings, by my story. That way I get to not only have my feelings validated, but I get to feel UNDERSTOOD, which is so important to me. I HATE unmoved and detached (well, mostly). And your T getting up to open the blinds wow that really affected me, I imagined exactly how I’d feel if that happened to me and I think I would be unbearably hurt and immediately ENRAGED. It’s so dismissive.

Sorry for this loooong reply, and I haven’t even addressed everything you said that I wanted to comment on, but this is probably way more than you want to hear anyway so shall stop here.

TN I hope you are coping alright and NOT talking yourself into being a failure at therapy. Take it from one who has ‘failed’ so often at therapy, there is no such thing as a client failing at therapy, only Ts fail. And our perceived failures are inevitably T’s errors or misunderstandings. I hope you can see that and feel strong enough to go in next session and be really open about everything that’s come up for you. It does sound like now that you’re no longer processing OldT trauma that the focus is much more on your direct relationship with T and so all this stuff coming up is perfectly normal, and actually, IS the therapy work. This IS you working on yourself!

Sending you lots of support and good wishes (((((( TN )))))))

LL

(((((TN)))))

I just went back to reread your first post again and what struck me was how you went from talking about the milestones over the last year (which were all significant) to towards the end, talking about your grief about OldT again and the fall being a triggery time of year for you.

Well, maybe T was frustrated that he had to leave you in such a state rather than frustrated with you. But maybe what is going on is you are searching to connect and you just can't find that connection with him - as you said yourself, the right brain to right brain stuff.

And so maybe you tried to connect with the good stuff, the milestones but felt increasingly uncomfortable and went back to OldT for comfort.

It's very hard to learn how to connect with people in a new way. I don't know why the healthier way is soooo scary but it is. It's just really unfamiliar feelings and the new scaffolding isn't there yet to support it.

You can work this through with him. I know you can.

I do agree that you should get your 45 minutes regardless of him running late with someone else. That's his problem, not yours.

Thank you all for such valuable replies and the lovely support.

AnnieLake...thanks for the hugs. I was thinking about what you said and I'm wondering if it takes me awhile to get to the emotional stuff because I have to sit with him for awhile to gauge his "mood" and his receptiveness to hearing about the things that make me feel more vulnerable. And this would be mom transference stuff not him. I would always have to talk to my mother for awhile before asking for anything to see what kind of mood she was in that day. She was so volatile I could get a nice response, get smacked, or get some shaming response. T is always the same so it's not him it's the past.

Kashley, thanks for taking the time to explain what works for you. If we stopped 15 before the end of the session that would leave me a half hour to get to the emotional issues and I'm not able to do that at this point and therein lies the problem. I can't get evening appointments because he does not work very late... I think his last appointment is 6:30 and that is only on one night per week. He has other long term clients who have those slots. In fact, the only reason I was able to get an appointment with him is because I am able to go on my lunch hour in the daytime. I'm glad things are working out better for you and your T these days.

incognito (and Liese)... yeah it just really sucks sometimes. It is just never enough to fill the empty places and just getting a taste of the connection makes you hungry for more and then it's taken away (time is up! you gotta go). It may take a long time before I can just sit down and emotionally just throw up on his floor. It may never happen either. I just don't know at this point. That is just not me. I need time to calm down before I can access what is really happening inside. And then... there are times that I don't expect to get emotional (at least consciously) and it just happens.

And... like you, incognito, I feel that my T is getting really frustrated with me. He is frustrated enough to interrupt a really scary, emotional, vulnerable moment to start asking me why I always seem to do this! What could have been a really connecting moment had he responded empathically to my pain or at least just listened and made me feel heard, instead he began to question me and the opportunity for real trust and connection and me moving closer to him... well it was lost and I ended up feeling VERY unheard, disconnected and like I did somethiing horribly wrong. Wow... it was like I was being given that message that moving closer was wrong and dangerous when I have been struggling to move closer in my pain.

Thanks STRM for the hugs. Yeah, it would have been a LOT more productive and less hurtful if he had noted it happened and waited until the next session to discuss it and just allowed that moment with him to play out naturally. It really would not have taken that long. And while I could have left feeling emotional, I would not have left feeling shamed and disconnected.

Yaku, please don't worry about triggering me in any way. I'm really glad that you can have so much of your T and that he is working hard to help you and work with your needs. My T has really rigid boundaries...he may see them as necessary but sometimes I think he is too unbending and those sharp edges can really hurt me instead of help me. I'm constantly left with the feeling of "my way or the highway" and it feels scary at times.

Hi DF... thanks for your ideas and comments. We sort of do have a closing ritual but I dont' like it and it's not working. It seems too abrupt and dismissive and just ends up freaking me out. Okay... with oldT he would casually reach for his receipt book which was always next to him on the table (he didn't have to get up) and then when I saw him do that I would start winding down myself to be able to separate from him. I would hug Tdog and say goodbye to him and gather my water bottle, purse and coat (if I had one) and stand up. THEN he would get up and walk over to open the door for me and we would shake hands or hug before he would open it and then I would leave.

I don't know why this worked better for me. He would sometimes say we had only a few minutes left but not always. But I did have a solid 60 minutes or sometimes more and it sort of worked. And yes, there were times when I didn't want to leave or feel finished... I don't know.... I maybe felt that I was more in control of the leaving ritual there. He merely picked up that receipt book and my brain did the rest. NewT is in my insurance plan so I don't get a receipt. And he forgets to give a 5 minute warning most times. And truly... I don't want to be the one to watch the clock and decide when to end the session. I have worked hard both with oldT and now to allow the T to run the session and be responsible for the time. I think I'm just upset over a few things... one is his time boundary which seems to mostly apply to me lately (as others are running overtime) and also what he said at the end of the session... asking me why I do this so much. I just feel like I'm greedy, horrible and manipulative. Just writing about this is helping I think to make me see more clearly somethings I need to think about. Thanks for the hugs.

SD... thanks for your response. I can't double my timeslot as T won't do longer sessions, unless the circumstances are extraordinary, like the session with oldT. He says that clients work hard enough in 45 minutes and he sees longer sessions as either too much or a waste of time not sure which.

Liese, thanks for coming back and offering new thoughts. I think you are correct. Maybe I'm just really sad at leaving him. I do think some of this is plain old separation anxiety. I do miss him (not now because I'm too angry to miss him and feel disconnected) but at times I just miss him. I even told him in an earlier session when we discussed ending sessions. I told him that it could just be separation anxiety. He reminds me that I have two sessions a week and he is always there waiting for me. Of course, that just adds to my guilt about having two sessions a week.

I'm sorry you had to hear that from your Dad while you were homesick and away at college. That was insensitive of him to say that to you. To equate your need for attachment and family connection to being "tricks". And I can understand how that would stay with you. I can relate back to me having the need to talk to my mom and her always saying... you have 5 minutes so talk. Gee that did nothing to encourage me to share with her. I have to struggle to remember never to do this with my son.

LL...thanks for your reply and the hugs. I want to post this and then I'll come back.

Thanks everyone
TN

((((TN)))) Came back as the whole sidebar on manipulation really struck a chord with me. I don't think you're being manipulative. And, honestly, I don't think your T feels that way either. I have worried about it constantly, such that I spent a lot of time in lockdown for fear of being that way. T has said he thinks it is at least partially a fear of being like my mother, who is intensively manipulative and invasive. So, when he has suggested we need to work on the panicked stirring up of "stuff" and emotions at the end of sessions, I too felt as if he thought I was manipulative, and began to think that of myself as well. But, in truth, he didn't feel that way at all. Just as your T has said, it was about getting to a safer way of working together, so we weren't wrapping up with me ungrounded and overactivated.

Yesterday, I think we spent a full third of the session, before physical contact, discussing how difficult it was for me to both ask for things that are wanted by some part or another, to make it feel easier/safer to share (especially the physical contact stuff) and allow him to accommodate me when he notices needs and offers to do things. He asked repeatedly how I was being manipulative when he was the one offering me things or inviting me to ask him for what I needed. I told him that I must have somehow MADE him offer. He was at a loss, and then said jokingly, "OK, well, then be manipulative, PLEASE!" I asked who would take responsibility that things go OK, that it doesn't end up being "too much." Of course, he said he would. He doesn't think I'm being manipulative, but his point was that he just wants it all out in the open, for me to trust that he can handle it. So, I told him it was easier when he was next to rather than across from me, so he came and sat next to me again. And then asked if I felt manipulative, and of course I did.

I'm kind of getting off topic now, but what I really meant to say is that I don't think your T feels like you are either intentionally or unintentionally manipulating him, and even if you were, I think he's shown that he's confident in himself to take care of his boundaries under any pressure. If you are like me, content popping up at the end of sessions is not necessarily an indication that you are trying for more time (though there would be nothing at all wrong with it if you were, as more time can really help when things are difficult to open up). My T thinks it is an indication that something either about the therapeutic "space" or the content does not feel safe to emerge. But, when you're holding a lot of pain about something, it wants to emerge. And maybe it just takes the "pressure" of imminent ending to push through and become bigger than that sense of unsafety. I know this does not help, but that is something to be very patient about. One of the things I've found that will help is telling T things that he does that actually do make it feel unsafe to share. Having shortened sessions would be a good example and that is on him. My T often starts late, but he runs over, so I think it's perfectly OK to point out how unfair and contradictory it feels that he tells you he can't offer you longer sessions and then runs over with a previous client. That is a perfectly valid, yucky feeling.

The second thing that helps, which T has told me and I hate being told at the time, is to just be patient with yourself when things desperately need to come out, but can't. T keeps telling me we won't work on these memories all in one session. We have been at it for over a month and it has taken whole, extended sessions of working through getting everything in the "room" safe enough, just to share five minutes here, 15 minutes there, of what I have been experiencing and remembering. And I have been with my T almost exactly the same amount of time you've been with yours...no, nearly a month longer. It's really OK that it is still very hard to share and takes a lot of work to do so. You are definitely not a therapy failure. I don't suppose you would tell me I'm one too, as we are in the same boat!

I'm sorry if anything I've said is triggering, but the whole idea of manipulation, safety and sharing is just where I have been at, so I wanted to let you know you're not alone in those experiences.

Hi (((TN))), just now coming to the discussion and don't know if I have anything different to add than what the others have contributed, but even if its more of the same hopefully you can feel of my support.

In reading your original post --before you even mentioned your T's comments about needing to "understand why you do this"-- I saw the pattern. Only because I am very much guilty of doing this myself. But perhaps I shouldn't use the word guilty because I don't believe either you or I do this to be manipulative, or that we even do it consciously. Nor do I believe (or at least I sincerely hope) that your T believes that either. I do think it is important that you follow up with your T to find out for sure what he meant by his comment, to put your mind at ease, but I doubt he meant it as a criticism and is only concerned about the effect it has on you to frequently leave in an unresolved, activated state.

It seems obvious to me that the reason you (or I) don't open up and risk emotional topics earlier into the session is because we don't feel safe enough. If you felt safe to do it early on, I think you would. This is not to say necessarily that the reason for this is that your T is doing something wrong --he may be, or it may be mostly stuff inside of you due to past trauma-- but not feeling safe enough is not something you need to feel guilty or berate yourself for! It hurts me to see you beat up on yourself for that. Feeling safe requires a lot of things...your T has to be doing his part (keeping a boundary protecting your session time is one of those, IMO, and I tend to agree with LL's post about this issue), you have to trust he will not repeat old-T's mistakes, and you have to trust yourself...etc...and it takes time, sometimes LOTS of time.

I was lamenting to my T not long ago about how I feel like I "waste" sessions by not getting into the meaty things until late into the session, and how frustrated I was that I couldn't open up sooner because I really do want to make progress faster. She never criticizes me for it because she recognizes that she can't force trust, and its not wise to risk too much before I'm ready. She says the reason why I don't open up sooner is because I gain strength incrementally through the session, so that by the time it is nearly over is when I finally have absorbed enough of re-experiencing of her to feel safe enough. Unfortunately, I don't get 90 minute sessions either, which would probably benefit me but neither T nor I can fit it into our schedules. I do, however, get a full 60 minutes whether T starts 10 minutes late or not (unless its my fault, not hers, that we started late). I am wondering if your T is willing to give you more time when he starts late except perhaps you can't stay longer due to your work schedule?

Even if its not our fault that we can't feel safe enough to broach sensitive topics early into the sessions, it doesn't take away the aftermath of leaving activated. I think if your T anticipates that this is going to happen, he can help smooth the transition at the end of sessions, even if he has to say "Can we continue/pick up at this point in our next session, because I think this is important and deserves more of our time together?" At least that would communicate some empathy to you before he just abruptly ends after closing the blinds, because I can see how that would communicate a dismissive message.

And hi there Yaku. I've been thinking about maniulation too.

TN, I believe that the formal definition of maniuplation involves someone in a stronger position taking advantage of someone in a weaker position, regardless of whether that stance involves intelligence, wealth, power.

In the therapeutic relationship, I FEEL as though we are definitely in the weaker position so I don't think it can possibly be manipulation.

You might be trying to get some of your emotional needs met in a behavioral kind of way instead of verbalizing them. But then again, you are unaware of those needs and are unable to verbalize them. That's what T is trying to do, help you bring those needs to awareness. When we are aware of our needs and feel entitled to them, it's so much easier to get them met. I'm not there yet but I'm hoping it's going to be easier. That's the theory anyway. At least your unconscious, unmet needs won't be running the show there and you will be able to make more conscious choices.

I hope I'm not sounding too preachy. Our parents were in the stronger position and had they had better boundaries themselves instead of unmet needs, they wouldn't have FELT manipulated.

Thinking of you this weekend. I know it's a long time until Monday. For me too!!! I'm practically counting the minutes. Hope it goes fast and you and T can get to the bottom of the problem.

xoxo

Liese

quote:

Well, maybe T was frustrated that he had to leave you in such a state rather than frustrated with you. But maybe what is going on is you are searching to connect and you just can't find that connection with him - as you said yourself, the right brain to right brain stuff.

And so maybe you tried to connect with the good stuff, the milestones but felt increasingly uncomfortable and went back to OldT for comfort.

You guys are making me teary with all the heartfelt support and kind words and mostly... in sharing your own experiences. This has given me a lot of insight into what is going on with me and T.

Liese...what you said above is amazing. I never thought of it that way. I DO still feel that oldT despite his therapeutic incompetence... STILL was more empathic towards me and connected with me much more intensely in that right brain way. I have missed those feelings, that connection so much that I crave it and I guess when I'm not getting it from my T (I rarely do... although I can say it happened about 3 times over the year) my brain runs right back to oldT and even though he hurt me the memory of those connecting moments are still fresh and still there.

thanks Liese.

TN

quote:

I was lamenting to my T not long ago about how I feel like I "waste" sessions by not getting into the meaty things until late into the session, and how frustrated I was that I couldn't open up sooner because I really do want to make progress faster. She never criticizes me for it because she recognizes that she can't force trust, and its not wise to risk too much before I'm ready. She says the reason why I don't open up sooner is because I gain strength incrementally through the session, so that by the time it is nearly over is when I finally have absorbed enough of re-experiencing of her to feel safe enough

MH it's nice to see you again and thanks for joining the conversation here.

What I quoted above is likely true. As I read through all the comments and all the sharing I'm realizing it just takes me a longer time to settle in and test the waters with T to see if it's safe enough to get to those meaty issues. And it's very true for me that I do get incrementally stronger throughout the session as I'm feeding off of my T's responses and his body language towards me. Only then I start to hit the really scary stuff and then it's too late and I have to leave.

I think it's partly his fault because at the end it does not take me that long to reorient myself and get grounded. But it's when he gets up and starts doing other stuff I feel I have lost his attention and I am dismissed. Yes, he is talking and saying stuff like... you did a good job today etc but we are not looking at each other and so there is no connection and the simple issue of his getting up before I do makes me feel like I need to run the heck out of there.

Thanks for your input and in sharing your own experiences.

TN

quote:

I'm kind of getting off topic now, but what I really meant to say is that I don't think your T feels like you are either intentionally or unintentionally manipulating him, and even if you were, I think he's shown that he's confident in himself to take care of his boundaries under any pressure. If you are like me, content popping up at the end of sessions is not necessarily an indication that you are trying for more time (though there would be nothing at all wrong with it if you were, as more time can really help when things are difficult to open up). My T thinks it is an indication that something either about the therapeutic "space" or the content does not feel safe to emerge. But, when you're holding a lot of pain about something, it wants to emerge. And maybe it just takes the "pressure" of imminent ending to push through and become bigger than that sense of unsafety.

Hi Yaku... thanks for coming back to the thread. That makes sense and relates to some of the other things I've been posting about on this thread. I think it's truly a matter of feeling that the space is safe and lately that sense of safety has been a bit shaky. Some of it is due to the whole feeling of shorter session time and him running late for some clients and then not giving me back the time on the other end. It has also thrown off any sense of rhythmn I was trying to develop as to the timing of the session and the content.

One thing that is troubling me is that I recently spoke to him about what they are doing to me at work. You may remember that they won't let me work flex hours so that I can be home in the morning to put my child on the schoolbus and so I have to give up my lunch hours. In order to see my T I have to put in for vacation time for two lunch hours per week. I was afraid to tell my T this (we had been extensively discussing my work issues and problems) and I made him swear and promise he would not change things if I did tell him. And so I told him about taking vacation time for sessions and just after that he started shortening my session time. That day he gave me only 35 minutes of a session because he ran 20 minutes over with the other woman he said he did not give me time on the other side because he knew I had to get back to work. So I told him point blank that this is not an issue ... it's my time to take (the vacation) and if I need it for therapy then I will take it and it does not matter when I get back to work... it's my vacation!!

Thanks again, Yaku and no you are not triggering at all. I hope you are doing okay.

TN

quote:

And (hindsight of course) it would have been so much better for him to have helped you get grounded and say that you’ll continue with it next session, and then NEXT session bring up his concerns about how you and he could avoid this happening again, so that you don’t end up leaving disconnected. So now it looks like this will have to the topic for next session anyway.

Having said that, being told in the very midst of painful tears that ‘we have to work out why you’re doing this’ would make even the most secure self confident person feel like they’re doing something

LL thank you for your post and your thoughts. I totally agree with what you said above. What would have been a much better reaction on his part is to listen to my teary, painful revelation (which was not a long story at all) and then said something soothing or empathic showing he could understand why I would feel this way which would have been an intensely connecting and attuned moment for me, leaving me with such a good, close feeling to him and instead I left with the feeling that I am bad and did something unforgiveably wrong. I left feeling like I'm a failure and can do nothing right.

It would have been better if he just took mental note of what happened for discussion next time. As it was, he perhaps thought that while in the "moment" I could better tell him why I do this... but realistically... he would be asking me to vacate the right brain immediately and return to my logical, rational left brain to give him a response. The sticky point being... I cannot do that and this has been a probelm for me my entire life. I cannot switch from emotional me to logical me at the flip of a switch. Those two sides of my brain are not integrated at all and he KNOWS this. Maybe I need to remind him, huh?

Thank you again for your insights into this. Every bit helps.

Hugs
TN

(((TN))) I'm glad to see you working through this with the help of all the comments. I had my session with my T this morning and it ended up having a very similar effect on me. I wonder if it has anything to do with our expectations for the session. I know you put a lot of time and effort into your anniversary session. Today is my last session for 10 days and we had it on a Saturday because of the scheduling mix up yesterday. I was hoping for a soothing connecting session and instead I ended up distraught and hopeless about therapy and my ability to change. I actually told him that I couldn't believe he would have this conversation today when he was leaving for a week and he was creating such an upset. He said that wasn't his intention but that is what happened and now I'm stuck with it.

Sorry I've made this all about me.

hi incognito... don't worry about making it about you... that helps me to see how others fare in therapy. I'm sorry your session left you feeling out of sorts and upset with the direction it took.

You could be right in that having such high expectations of sessions at certain times (before vacation, anniversaries, holiday time) could end up back firing on us. I knew my session was important to me that day but it was after I got home that I realized what a mess it ended up to be when that was not my plan at all. So much for planning anything.

Please let us support you while your T is away on vacation and hopefully the time will pass quickly.

Hugs
TN

Hello again TN, if I remember rightly you have a Monday session with T – just wanting to send you good wishes for it and hope you can talk about all that’s come up from last session with him AND that it gives you back connection to your T. If you feel up to it, let us know how it goes?

((((( TN )))))

LL

hi LL...thanks so much. I was just coming back here to say that I'm feeling really anxious now. I DO have a session in 2.5 hours from now. I am really shut down and numb and have been for the past 2 days. Unfortunately, this has manifested itself in horrible anxiety symptoms... can't breathe, headaches, shakiness, and poor sleep so I feel like crap today. I had to use all my strength to just get up and get dressed for work. I wanted to hide under the covers all day. It does not help that it's dark and dreary outside (again!).

I need to re-read this thread to help me get some focus for today's session. I'm torn between sitting there and refusing to speak or sitting there and blabbing about nothing for my 43.5 minutes or just not showing up at all. I REALLY do not want to talk to him about last week. And I can't find a safe topic right now.

Thanks for the good wishes. I appreciate them. I'll let you all know how it goes.

Hugs
TN

Oh, TN- I am SO late to your thread, I am sorry to chime in so late. But I wanted to offer you some support because I do the same thing, so often. I used to do it with old T and now I do it with my T, Cowboy, all the time. In fact, I usually spend a fair bit of time in the bathroom outside of his office, crying. Guru T used to suggest that I needed longer sessions, and that he didn't like to leave me in such an activated state...he would say that I should come every two weeks for two hours, rather than once a week for one hour. Cowboy always lets me know when time is almost up, and I am able to put on the semblance of being together just long enough to write my check and get the heck out of there! I figure it is just the way I operate, and that it isn't really something that I can control, and the nature of therapy makes it pretty hard to control too. I mean...I know I need weekly sessions, or I will just lose ground. But I can't afford more than one a week, so I am left with 50 minutes. I don't watch the time...I've always pretty much refused to watch the time in my therapy, and just by *not* doing it, and never mentioning it...I've noticed that Cowboy takes care of it. Not so Guru...he would let time run all over the place, I'm pretty sure. Anyway. I think it is just an unavoidable part of therapy, myself. That we only get this person's undivided attention for 45 or 50 minutes a week... (a heck of a lot more than I ever got my parents undivided attention for!) but that when we run into that boundary to the relationship...it really hurts! Yeah, so we cry alone a lot. But it's not our fault. It's just that the nature of the therapy relationship and what it can do for us has limits to it that hurt us. But it's better than nothing. I tend to just "deal with it" now, because after much thought, it is the only solution that makes sense to me. It hurts, but I can't change it, so I cry in the bathroom! It totally sucks that you have to go to work right after...that would really freak me. I have to go and put my kids to bed and try to look normal to my H right after, and that is hard enough. Wrok would kill me. I hope you and your T are able to work out some kind of system that will help you. And btw, it wrong for him to shortchange you by 5 minutes. You should tell him that. My T is always late, often coming out to get me, but I think he always gives me 50 minutes. The time frame always feels right to me, and ok. I think he just runs late a lot, and I know I've been late a few times, but he never made any issue of it.

I hope some of these comparison points help at least a little...big hugs to you, TN...it is not your fault, nor are you manipulative, that this is happening. Period. It is just the nature of therapy. Not your fault.

Love,

Beebs

(((((TN)))))

Hope you went and that everything turned out at least Okay, if not better than okay. I have faith in you. You will get past this bump.

xoxo

Liese

(((TN))) Have been thinking about you today.

HI TN,

I hope your session went well and that you were an active participant. Everyone loses if you sit their silent- but you will lose the most. I have learned so much from listening to forum members In particular it's made me think a lot about trust. It's hard to trust the T- personally (for example when they tell us they like us or that we have value). But I hope we can trust our T's to give us appropriate feedback- such as "why do you always start a major subject close to the end of a session." I have had ALL the same thoughts as you- "maybe I'm trying to get more attention." I would encourage you to hear your T without your judgment or fear that he's judging you. See if perhaps there is comfort or purpose in your approach to "bringing up significant issues too late in a session." That doesn't make you a therapy failure at all. It's just what you've had to do in the past. For example, I realized today- I want to text my T because I want to hear from him. But am I in need? Is there a crisis? Shouldn't I be able to be patient until I'm with him again. The truth is, I want more of his time but I know that is my fear of abandonment and experience of not being loved and invalidated. I am becoming more responsible for the things I do that push people away (such as doubting them) and that is making a huge difference in my life.

Thank you LL, Liese, Yaku and ND for asking about me and wishing me well for today. I know you were all interested in today's outcome so here are some notes of the session. I'm still sort of processing all that he said to me because it's just NOT at all what I was thinking.

Well I went and I survived. It did not begin well. Again I was kept waiting for 15 minutes and I was seething in the waiting room. I was so upset I could not breathe. How could he do this when we talked about this before. I was about to leave when the door opened and guess who strolls out? That SAME BLONDE! Okay so why does SHE get extra time and no one else does?? She does not even look upset when she comes out. I could be more sympathetic if she was crying her eyes out. So she smiles at me and I just give her a dirty look.

So I sat there after she left and I thought to myself if he DARES to go for a walk now I'm gonna let him have it. But he came over to me and said "sorry to keep you waiting" and I just grunted. He told me to go right in and he didn't leave. I walked to the chair and put my stuff down on the table and he said something like "this is not our usual routine" and then he handed me my blanket and said "that is really a soft blanket". I was giving him the hairy eyeball all through this routine.

So beyond being hurt about Thursday I was feeling really bothered by that patient. Why does she always go 10-15 minutes overtime? Why not ME? Why did he throw me out on Thursday in tears because time was up?

I did not talk to him for about 10 minutes. then I started talking about the weather and other small talk. But I was in this really angry, supercontrolled place. When I get super mad at someone I get really really still. Finally, he picks up on me being avoidant, angry and he said there was a bad vibe in the room. He asked me what happened since Thursday that has me so distant from him. I said dont' you remember? He said something about the email.

(On Friday afternoon I got an email from him which for some reason I did not see until Friday night. He said in it that he had gotten a page with a number that looked like mine but when he called he didnt' get my vm and didn't know who it was. He asked me if I had paged him and if so to page him again and he will call me) I was really shocked to see an email from him but... I was so shut down and detached that it meant NOTHING TO ME.

And so back to the session. He said that he was reaching out to me to be sure I didn't need him. That the attachment on his end was fine. But he said I was very detached today. I told him that I would have rather swallowed nails than place a call to him. He asked me why and I was more angry that he could not remember why I was mad at him. I mean... he should KNOW. He left me a mess on Thursday!

He asked me what happened to that person who gave him such a lovely gift and who spoke about the attachment she had to him. I told him that I don't want to be attached any longer and I don't want the attachment. That it does no good and just makes things worse. He said to me that he does not believe I'm saying that since I know more about attachment than half the Ts in town and that I've been speaking to him about it in positive terms since we met. So why now do I not want to have any attachment? He kept after me and kept bugging me (in a T'ish kind of way).

I finally started telling him some of what upset me on Thursday. How he didn't show any empathy or care in what he asked or what he did at the end of the session. I told him he made me feel WORSE than if he just let me leave with being emotional. I told him that he was asking me to come back from a very emotional right brain kind of place to my left, logical brain and speak with him on an intellectual and rational level discussing why I do what I do. And I just can't do that. I cannot switch like that. He himself told me that my two sides are not well integrated. He said they are integrated enough and that I'm healthy enough to do that. I said no and that I can't do this. I cannot time my emotions and can't let them out on cue.

The bottom line is: he said he knew what he was doing. He said that allowing me to leave in an emotional state would harm me over the long term and he needs to take care of me in that way. He does NOT believe that I'm doing this on purpose or with any forethought. He said it's my little child that does this to me. She is sort of sabotaging me in getting well. He said if he allows me to leave him in an emotional state then I will believe that I am too much, too overwhelming for him or anyone... just like OldT allowed me to believe or my mother. And by not allowing enough time for him to ground me and bring me back down then I will have the idea that I don't deserve his care and concern.

He said that I (or little me) is setting things up as a repetition compulsion thing. That I go into grief, pain, deep emotions at the end of the session when he does not have enough time to bring me down to a safe place. And because there is no time to do this I leave upset and feeling like there is no connection or attachment. I end up denying or breaking it because I had to do that as a child. He said he is seeing a pattern that needs to be looked at an analyzed so we can change things because HE is not going to repeat the hurt of those in my past.

I argued with him over all of this. I still need time to process this because it is SO vastly different than any scenarios I had in my head or that the group could come up with. Of course, I have to keep in mind that he is analytically trained (and we are not) and has a ton of experience. I tried to tell him that maybe I just need more time to... and he cut me off and said no. I said NO? You don't even know what I'm going to say to you! He smiled at me and said "you are going to say that you need more time to reach those deep emotions. But you don't because there have been many many times when you walked in here crying and in deep grief and did that throughout the session. This is different and it has happened a few times and has left you feeling alone, disconnected and sad." Okay so he didn't buy that explanation LOL.

At the end he told me that I am very brave to talk about this with him. He said he thought I was firing him when I walked in and he was upset to see that all we have worked so hard for would be thrown out. He said HIS attachment to me never wavered and that he still has great respect for me, cares about me and likes me (the guy must be nuts )

We chatted a few minutes at the end. He told me his back was really hurting him today and sitting hurts him. So I told him he could stand up and walk around if he wants to. He said no but just ignore his wincing. I offered him Advil and he said he is eating Motrin like candy. He did seem like his mobility was limited today. He didn't move his chair around much. We shook hands at the end and he rubbed my arm/shoulder more than usual. I also had a full 50 minutes today.

Oh and funny thing... I had my cell phone hidden under my blanket to check the time but he knew what I was doing the rat and teased me about it.

I didn't get a chance to see if my gift was anywhere in his office. I usually check out his bookshelf when I'm alone in there. He told me I could look at any of his books or knick knacks while I wait. Just his desk is off limits. Guess that will have to wait until Thursday.

And so I left feeling.... weird. Not quite connected, not quite detached. He was obviously very sincere and kept repeating that he said he wanted to look at this pattern not that I should not cry or he didn't care that I was crying. He made the decision that it was best to do this in the moment. He said that this grief crying was incongruent with the rest of the session which was positive and conversational. And that is true. But whenever I get near anything related to oldT I still fall to pieces and I wonder if I knew that in my subconscious? I am still confused.

And on some level, I'm still really angry about the pattern that I'm noticing. He is always late when that blonde woman is there before me. Why can she get MY time so often? Of course everyone will say I need to talk to him about this but it just feels really scary. In my head she is more important to him and means more to him so he will just get mad at me for questionning his boundaries with her. It's not my business how he conducts therapy or what his boundaries are. But it's hard enough to go in there and be open and vulnerable when I'm starting out feeling unwanted and uncared for because I'm left sitting there while he gives my time to another patient.

He also told me he is going away for a week in 3 weeks. I don't know yet how this affects my appointments and I'm a little nervous about his leaving when we are on such shaky ground.

So that's it.

Thanks everyone.
TN

((((( TN )))))

Thanks for telling us about your session. Not sure whether to be pleased for you (that you at least were able to talk about some of what was going on for you, and that his responses if not exactly validating of your feelings showed that he was clear about what he did and why and that he could explain it to you) or sad (that you don't sound hugely positive about it, and ack to the blonde woman who is chewing into your therapy time.)

Of course the standard advice is going to be - talk to him about the blonde woman (jealous feelings and all!) and how you feel about his being late to start your sessions. As you already know this and feel so reluctant to bring it up, maybe it's worth your looking at why you are so afraid to talk to him about something that is actually a bona fide externally justified reason for complaint - that IS to do with boundaries. You're not messing with HIS boundaries by querying why he runs over so often and chews into your therapy time, he's messing with YOURS.

There's lots more I'd like to say about your session but am running out of time at the moment, so if it's ok I'll come back later and add some more. In the meantime, hope you are feeling a little calmer about the way he ended your last session and regaining some, if not complete, emotional connection with him.

Bigs hugs to you TN

LL

(((TN))))

Oh I can so relate to what your T is saying here and how you are experiencing it. It is really hard stuff to talk about especially because it isn't done on purpose. I've always had a hard time with that because if I'm not doing it on purpose then how do I change it when I don't even realize I'm doing it? I think it sounds like your T handled it really well even though it was painful for you. I still question it being handled at the end of the session last time, but I understand his point about not wanting you to leave in what feels like a re-enactment. I also totally get how hard it is to switch gears from that right brain super emotional and vulnerable place to the intellectual. I've become quite adept at pretending to switch and then falling apart again after I leave which isn't good either. When I first started with my T, I remember once that she got (what I perceived) as angry about this issue. She was very stern and said, "it's not fair to me when you do this to me. You can't wait until the end of the session and have little ones popping out all upset and then not let me help you because I don't have enough time left." It was the "it's not fair to me" part that didn't sit well with me because it felt like I was being blamed for it and I truly wasn't doing it on purpose and I didn't understand how to control it. We still have issues with this at times and it's really hard especially when the little ones have been out the entire session. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to calm them down and wind down when I don't know what the time is and I'm not really even there. Anyway, my point in saying all of that is that I understand where you are coming from and I know how painful this is because I've been there. I hope that you and your T can figure out a way to make this easier and tease out what is behind the repetition. If you figure it out, let me know because I need a clue too!!

As far as the lateness, especially with the same client that would start to really bug me. He needs to be setting the same boundaries with her if he's going to be holding you accountable for time then it should be across the board. I also suspect that while he would be likely to address the issue of being late for your session and how that makes you feel that he isn't likely to go near the why it happens with this patient. I would say to bring it up, but then I know I would be nervous especially coming from the T camp of "don't be critical and stop analyzing everything." I think you have a right to talk about how it makes you feel though.

I hope that you get that connection back soon. I hate those times of disconnect and how hard they feel. It is a really icky place to be in.

Thanks, LL and STRM.

LL... I felt slightly more connected when I left him but the trust is not there right now. It's like I'm on shaky ground and we need to have more time to talk about it.

STRM... I didn't plan to fall apart at the end of the session and had no idea that the conversation was leading back to oldT or that it would upset me so much. I guess I had myself convinced that I was now "over" old T and I could just talk normally (without emotion) about him. Wrong on that count! I'm still grieving even though I would love to believe and convince everyone that I'm not. Thank you for sharing that this has happened with you too. Makes me feel less crazy (or manipulative).

What really needs to be addressed is the patterns that I'm seeing with him. He told me he noticed my ending session pattern well... I'm noticing that for the past 3 weeks he has kept me wating 15 minutes or longer and always for the same patient. And because he is late with her he is taking time off MY sessions, except for yesterday when he skipped his own break that he normally takes in order not to keep me waiting even longer.

But what this did was two things. One, I did not have a T with a cleared out mind and ready to focus solely on me. And TWO... it changed and disrupted our normal beginning ritual which threw me off. Aside from that it made me feel insignificant, unimportant and not cared about. We discussed in the past (once when I had a really rough emotional grief session) that sometimes a client will need an extra few minutes to pull themselves together and that is fine with him that he didn't want to send anyone out to the real world in such an activated state. I thanked him and said I would understand also if he was late once in a while with me because I would understand. And I do understand... BUT... three weeks in a row with the same patient?? And that first week I ended up with a 35 minute session because of her.

I'm sorry I just get really upset thinking about it. So I know I have to talk to him. This is eating at the foundation of our relationship and MY therapy with him. I have worked so hard to attach to him and now I am detaching because I don't feel valued or taken care of in the most basic way. But it's very scary to me to talk to him about this because it risks the relationship. I'm afraid I will hear "if you don't like it then leave". Yet, if I don't talk about it, then it risks the relationship anyway because I can't talk to him or trust him.

Believe me I realize that he won't or can't discuss this other patient and that's fine. I don't want to know about her I just need for him to know how this is impacting ME, MY therapy and our relationship. I am becoming more and more angry with him, I'm detaching and withdrawing, my trust is compromised and it just really hurts. He knows that I come from a T relationship that was not good, that I was abandoned, he needs to stop a minute and see how this looks and feels from my side of the room. I can't tell him to change the way he does his work but I can tell him how that makes me feel, especially since it's hurting both of us.

Now I just need to find the courage.

TN

Oh TN, I can totally understand why you would feel upset about the blonde woman taking your time. I feel it is your T's responsibilty to offer you the extra time at the end of yours as he is the one eating into your time for which you are paying him for. If you're finding it hard to bring it up in session I wonder if it would be easier to email him beforehand?

I hope you are able to get the relationship back on track before he takes his leave as I know how awful it is to feel disconnected.

Hugs
Butterfly

Oh, TN ... I'm wondering out loud here. How many sessions has this happened, going into despair at the end of the session? Does it match the same number as the sessions that he's kept you waiting and came out with the blonde woman? That could be your answer right there. You are registering the anger somewhere in your brain and you know you are upset about it but it's not really coming to conscious awareness and you are not connecting it to what is happening at the end of the session.

And, so that little part of you is feeling jealous and angry (and who wouldn't) but the pathway to consciousness is blocked off, probably by fear because of the way you were treated my your mother. And, so perfectly legitmate needs and feelings are being expressed but not in a way that makes sense to you, at least not now.

Just wondering again out loud here? Did your mother connect with you when you were in pain then? Or when you were experiencing grief? Maybe that's the connection you are looking for, how the behavior got reinforced. Oops, did I just say that?

I have a problem with anger too, in that it is registering somewhere but am unable to see how it gets played out and can't match the two things up. Working on it.

TN, I am so glad you went to the session and that your T didn't blame you or make you feel like you are being manipulative. Because you are not. You are just trying to get legitimate needs met.

xoxo

Liese

Oh TN, you don't know what you've done for me!!! I applied my reasoning to my relationship with my H and realized that he and I connected through our pain. And that he still looks for that connection from me, I think. I don't know. I'm going to have to explore this more.

I do know that the way I connected with my Dad was only when I was in distress. And, even though the interactions were usually negative and hurtful, I suppose at least I was getting attention. Hmmmmm.

quote:

I didn't plan to fall apart at the end of the session and had no idea that the conversation was leading back to oldT or that it would upset me so much.

TN: I hope you didn't think that I meant that you did this on purpose at all. If I was unclear that is not at all what I meant. I know that it wasn't planned and that you had no idea that you would be so upset. That's what I meant about understanding when that happens because it has happened to me as well.

I think it is totally unfair for you to get 35 minutes because he went over. That's not okay IMHO. I think he needs to let the next client know (with a note or if he has a receptionist) that he is running late for the rest of the day because it's not fair to cut off one session because the person before ran late. I really hope that you can talk to him about this and he can understand where you are coming from. I see your point about it affecting the relationship either way. (((hugs)))

TN, I'm so sorry about his running over so often. I'm glad things are getting out into the open, but this more than any one thing, really needs to be talked about. As I've said, my T is always late and that stirs stuff up for me, but I always get my minimum one hour. Today, he texted me a false alarm needing to switch my session to an hour later (meaning a shorter session than we scheduled), because he forgot about scheduling another client for this week. I feel obligated to accept whatever he needs, since he does so much for me. But, inside, I wanted to cancel and run away and never see him again. It is so triggering. I can't imagine, three separate instances, with the same proceeding client, when he has refused you more time. It must feel awful. But, I think he has proven that he is safe to receive your (justifiable) hurt and anger over those things. Is there any way you could just write about it? Bring it in and read over it together? Email him just the topic that needs to be discussed in your next session, so he does not let you out of it? If it is too hard to risk right now, I understand the value of being patient, but I hate to see you in so much pain and your T not having the ability to do anything address it.

quote:

TN: I hope you didn't think that I meant that you did this on purpose at all. If I was unclear that is not at all what I meant. I know that it wasn't planned and that you had no idea that you would be so upset. That's what I meant about understanding when that happens because it has happened to me as well.

STRM... NO I didn't think that at all. I was just sort of rambling to myself. I totally understood what you meant... no worries okay?

Hugs
TN