Butterfly... thanks for posting to me. Yes I do hope we can settle all this before he leaves. The last few times he went on vacation I was super connected to him and he made sure of that too and I was fine. Hope that happens again.
Liese... I think you do have a very good point. How did I get to connect with my mother? Well, usually when I was sick or in trouble. That is when I attracted her attention. Otherwise, I didn't exist. I need to process this a bit more. Glad writing to me helped you to have one of those lightbulb moments.
Yaku, thanks for your support. I really know that feeling of wanting to run away and never see him again. I'm been struggling with it lately. And lately, everything seems like a struggle. I'm tired of being in pain.
Thanks all
TN
TN – as an aside on Liese’s comment about only seeking out her father when she was distressed, this is something I’ve noticed coming up in the attachment literature, that attachment behaviour seems restricted more or less to when the child is in distress, upset, frightened, needs protection and care (which is news to me, I always assumed attachment included POSITIVE needs being met as well.) So in that context, what Liese says makes a lot of sense, and I’m wondering too TN if the real connection and trust and warmth you feel in relation to T is when you’re upset or distressed and he acts in his caregiver capacity and that’s when the attachment you feel for him is strengthened. So maybe you have a fundamental need to elicit his caregiving responses more than for the less connecting positive things (such as, celebrating your anniversary and talking about how far you’ve come)? And that current T isn’t as ready with the emotional goodies as OldT was, every time you don’t get that deep attachment connection with him your mind automatically compares how it was with OldT – hence possibly the grief feelings at the end of your previous session? Just a thought as I’m pretty immersed in reading about attachment at the moment and what Liese said just seemed to fit with the theory.
But theories aside, what’s becoming clear is that lots of little disconnects are occurring in your therapy at the moment (though I don’t mean to belittle how you feel and the Blonde and your session times being cut into and the way he interrupted your grief to call attention to your somehow enacting a pattern – those aren’t ‘little’ by any means) I just mean that gradually over these recent weeks things seem to be unravelling a bit for you in terms of losing trust and having the attachment bond called into question. I am seeing that you’re feeling bad enough to get to the point where maybe you do need to have a bit of a confrontation session. I do get how scary that is, the risk of alienating the other to the point where they say, well tough, if you don’t like it there’s the door – but remember you’ve got a T who understands attachment very well and part of that understanding is to know that the client is not going to be all smiles and sunshine but that a lot of anger and pain over unmet needs is bound to surface sooner or later.
Want to tell you about what I did in one of my recent sessions – after what I experienced as a really positive session the next one was really crap. Total disconnect, feeling totally unheard and not understood on ANY level. So I went away and fumed and decided to go in next session in full on confrontational mode. With the background sense that oh well what have I got to lose I’m feeling hopeless anyway and if he can’t take my criticisms and demands then that just confirms I’m better out of it anyway. (Lol that’s what I told myself because otherwise I wouldn’t have dared squeak let alone express negative feelings.) So I went in with a great big long list of grievances about all the things he did/said and more to the point DIDN’T do/say that were upsetting me. And one of my grievances was that he made me feel unwelcome, unwanted, unimportant, uninteresting, not entertaining enough to keep his attention and not doing therapy correctly according to how he related to me. So effectively I was laying out how the way he worked and related to me was rubbish and making me feel really bad – and I was clear about what specific things he was doing/not doing that made me feel this way.
You know what, he took it so non-defensively, accepted everything I moaned about and actually took it seriously, considered carefully how I was being affected, and generally made me feel heard and not at all in the wrong or acting like a tantrum throwing brat. And the next session was amazingly good. He did modify his approach a bit, and it was obvious he was making an effort to meet me where I was, not expecting me to go over into his world. But the real positive was not so much in his changing according to my demands but that having been heard and taken seriously and having my anger fully accepted and validated THAT established a connection for me (a first I might add in all the therapy I’ve done to date.)
Now I’m seeing in how you are feeling that a lot of your T’s approach is giving you the same sense and instead of making you feel more secure he’s actually contributing to making you feel insecure and afraid and unsafe (as I was feeling with my T.) And the point of my long (sorry) explanation about my session is to say that if you can muster up the courage to confront your T about some at least of the things that have been bothering you in recent weeks, I believe you’ll regain the connection that you are in fear of losing at the moment. Things are building up inside you and instead of bringing them out into the open you’re allowing them to effectively fester and I reckon that’s contributing big time to your feeling like you’re losing trust and connection with your T. Being able to express negative feelings to a T ABOUT the T, and having them accepted is (for me anyway) the royal road to establishing trust and connection. And the negatives don’t have to be realistic or rational or externally justifiable, they are just how I feel. And a T accepting them even knowing that I’m probably ‘in the wrong’ and seeing things in a really slanted way, that’s so worth the risk. So yeah I suppose I’m giving advice here, sorry I didn’t start out thinking that way, but on reading how you’re feeling more spun out by what’s going on in your therapy, I really do advise that you try and find some courage from somewhere and risk telling your T about all the negative things that are now adding up. I have a lot of faith in your T from what you’ve said about him and I think he will accept anything negative you might bring with understanding and acceptance.
Oh bollocks I’ve written far too much as usual, I hope that somewhere in all these words there is something useful for you to think about. And I hope you can find some sense underneath of the T you know to be good and caring and there for you, even if it’s only a rational knowing, that will help you keep going and working through all the pain you’re now experiencing.
(((((( TN ))))))))
LL
But theories aside, what’s becoming clear is that lots of little disconnects are occurring in your therapy at the moment (though I don’t mean to belittle how you feel and the Blonde and your session times being cut into and the way he interrupted your grief to call attention to your somehow enacting a pattern – those aren’t ‘little’ by any means) I just mean that gradually over these recent weeks things seem to be unravelling a bit for you in terms of losing trust and having the attachment bond called into question. I am seeing that you’re feeling bad enough to get to the point where maybe you do need to have a bit of a confrontation session. I do get how scary that is, the risk of alienating the other to the point where they say, well tough, if you don’t like it there’s the door – but remember you’ve got a T who understands attachment very well and part of that understanding is to know that the client is not going to be all smiles and sunshine but that a lot of anger and pain over unmet needs is bound to surface sooner or later.
Want to tell you about what I did in one of my recent sessions – after what I experienced as a really positive session the next one was really crap. Total disconnect, feeling totally unheard and not understood on ANY level. So I went away and fumed and decided to go in next session in full on confrontational mode. With the background sense that oh well what have I got to lose I’m feeling hopeless anyway and if he can’t take my criticisms and demands then that just confirms I’m better out of it anyway. (Lol that’s what I told myself because otherwise I wouldn’t have dared squeak let alone express negative feelings.) So I went in with a great big long list of grievances about all the things he did/said and more to the point DIDN’T do/say that were upsetting me. And one of my grievances was that he made me feel unwelcome, unwanted, unimportant, uninteresting, not entertaining enough to keep his attention and not doing therapy correctly according to how he related to me. So effectively I was laying out how the way he worked and related to me was rubbish and making me feel really bad – and I was clear about what specific things he was doing/not doing that made me feel this way.
You know what, he took it so non-defensively, accepted everything I moaned about and actually took it seriously, considered carefully how I was being affected, and generally made me feel heard and not at all in the wrong or acting like a tantrum throwing brat. And the next session was amazingly good. He did modify his approach a bit, and it was obvious he was making an effort to meet me where I was, not expecting me to go over into his world. But the real positive was not so much in his changing according to my demands but that having been heard and taken seriously and having my anger fully accepted and validated THAT established a connection for me (a first I might add in all the therapy I’ve done to date.)
Now I’m seeing in how you are feeling that a lot of your T’s approach is giving you the same sense and instead of making you feel more secure he’s actually contributing to making you feel insecure and afraid and unsafe (as I was feeling with my T.) And the point of my long (sorry) explanation about my session is to say that if you can muster up the courage to confront your T about some at least of the things that have been bothering you in recent weeks, I believe you’ll regain the connection that you are in fear of losing at the moment. Things are building up inside you and instead of bringing them out into the open you’re allowing them to effectively fester and I reckon that’s contributing big time to your feeling like you’re losing trust and connection with your T. Being able to express negative feelings to a T ABOUT the T, and having them accepted is (for me anyway) the royal road to establishing trust and connection. And the negatives don’t have to be realistic or rational or externally justifiable, they are just how I feel. And a T accepting them even knowing that I’m probably ‘in the wrong’ and seeing things in a really slanted way, that’s so worth the risk. So yeah I suppose I’m giving advice here, sorry I didn’t start out thinking that way, but on reading how you’re feeling more spun out by what’s going on in your therapy, I really do advise that you try and find some courage from somewhere and risk telling your T about all the negative things that are now adding up. I have a lot of faith in your T from what you’ve said about him and I think he will accept anything negative you might bring with understanding and acceptance.
Oh bollocks I’ve written far too much as usual, I hope that somewhere in all these words there is something useful for you to think about. And I hope you can find some sense underneath of the T you know to be good and caring and there for you, even if it’s only a rational knowing, that will help you keep going and working through all the pain you’re now experiencing.
(((((( TN ))))))))
LL
quote:Originally posted by True North:quote:TN: I hope you didn't think that I meant that you did this on purpose at all. If I was unclear that is not at all what I meant. I know that it wasn't planned and that you had no idea that you would be so upset. That's what I meant about understanding when that happens because it has happened to me as well.
STRM... NO I didn't think that at all. I was just sort of rambling to myself. I totally understood what you meant... no worries okay?
Hugs
TN
Phew! So glad I didn't come off that way.
((((LL))))
I just wanted to clarify that I just don't think there was anything positive in my house to connect to. My Dad was an empty shell and my mother was wrapped up with my brother and my sister was an evil witch. And, so the only way I got attention from my Dad was when I was in distress. But he wasn't happy about my distress. Often told me I was creating issues, too sensitive, etc. etc. But at least he was paying attention to me when I was in distress as opposed to when I wasn't.
Sorry TN I didn't want to make it about me, just wanted to point out that there was NOTHING positive going on in that house to connect to so it's not like that was there and I was ignoring it.
And, so getting attention and feeling important ARE positive needs but for me they got met with negative attention.
TN, I also wanted to say that I was also sabotaging my conneciton with my T for a long time. I would actually leave the session feeling good and then a little voice would say, don't feel so happy, this relationship is not going anywhere. And, the connection would just crash. It took me a while to tune into that little voice but yes, it was me destroying the connection.
I don't know for sure and haven't talked to T about it yet but my gut feeling is that I did that to avoid feeling any angry feelings towards T or having to deal with them because they were just too threatening. If that is not why I did it, then maybe it was a self-protective mechanism. But it definitely interfered with the relationship building.
At the end of the day, TN, we can all come up with 10 million different theories and so can your T. Keep in mind, as much as we may be wrong, your T may also. And, so even though he gave you his theory on why this is happening, you are the only one who knows what thoughts are going through your head when this is going on. As my T would say, YOU are the expert on YOU. And trust me, there have been times when my T was way off-base. (As you know!) So my point is, just don't buy your T's version if it doesn't resonate with you just because he is the expert.
xoxoxo
Liese
I just wanted to clarify that I just don't think there was anything positive in my house to connect to. My Dad was an empty shell and my mother was wrapped up with my brother and my sister was an evil witch. And, so the only way I got attention from my Dad was when I was in distress. But he wasn't happy about my distress. Often told me I was creating issues, too sensitive, etc. etc. But at least he was paying attention to me when I was in distress as opposed to when I wasn't.
Sorry TN I didn't want to make it about me, just wanted to point out that there was NOTHING positive going on in that house to connect to so it's not like that was there and I was ignoring it.
And, so getting attention and feeling important ARE positive needs but for me they got met with negative attention.
TN, I also wanted to say that I was also sabotaging my conneciton with my T for a long time. I would actually leave the session feeling good and then a little voice would say, don't feel so happy, this relationship is not going anywhere. And, the connection would just crash. It took me a while to tune into that little voice but yes, it was me destroying the connection.
I don't know for sure and haven't talked to T about it yet but my gut feeling is that I did that to avoid feeling any angry feelings towards T or having to deal with them because they were just too threatening. If that is not why I did it, then maybe it was a self-protective mechanism. But it definitely interfered with the relationship building.
At the end of the day, TN, we can all come up with 10 million different theories and so can your T. Keep in mind, as much as we may be wrong, your T may also. And, so even though he gave you his theory on why this is happening, you are the only one who knows what thoughts are going through your head when this is going on. As my T would say, YOU are the expert on YOU. And trust me, there have been times when my T was way off-base. (As you know!) So my point is, just don't buy your T's version if it doesn't resonate with you just because he is the expert.
xoxoxo
Liese
I forgot to mention before, that I agree that he should not be shaving time off your sessions! that is unfair...does he reduce your bill when he does that?
I'm hoping that you will find the courage to talk it all out with him, and that it will work out just fine in the end.
Hugs,
BB
I'm hoping that you will find the courage to talk it all out with him, and that it will work out just fine in the end.
Hugs,
BB
I've read all the responses and I thank you all for your comments and support. I have to do my math homework and I'll be back later.
TN
TN
quote:I bring deep stuff up end of sessions sometimes too. Though for me i think it's because i have to disconnect with a particular type of connection related to cravings for his love. If we end with small talk, or at less pleasant words, or just blah, I have to go into more in order to have us 're-stop' at just the right moment; this time, after he says something really sweet and nurturing, that i can replay in my mind over and over after i leave.
Hmmm... UV this gives me something to ponder over. I DO usually have to pick something, or one thing from a session to keep rewinding over and over in my head to keep the good feeling going till next visit. It is my way of holding onto the connection and believing that he thinks well of me and he won't abandon me.
BTW, he is leaving in 3 weeks for ONE week of vacation. My oldT would take 3 weeks and that was really hard on me. This T does not believe in long vacations. He says too many of his patients struggle with that and end up regressing and he has to spend a lot of time getting people settled again. What works for him is 3 one week vacations during the year. This will be his last one for this year.
Thanks for checking in on me. Hope you are doing well with your T.
TN
TN,
I think your T has the right idea when it comes to vacation time. 3wks really is disruptive to their work/our week. I'm glad he takes his profession seriously and doesn't get selfish when it comes to vacations, which some Ts do.
I think your T has the right idea when it comes to vacation time. 3wks really is disruptive to their work/our week. I'm glad he takes his profession seriously and doesn't get selfish when it comes to vacations, which some Ts do.
deep breath, daring to post....
I wanted to say TN, that I have a theory that some of us, do take longer to get into deep stuff. It takes me between 40 60 minutes to be able to talk about the huge stuff and that is the same whether it is a one hour session or a two hour session - I just could not speed up. I don't think it is us being needy or demanding more time or manipulative, I am just slow to get near difficult things - it takes lots of reassurance. fortunately my own psychologist does not berate me for this and gives me sessions that are frequently one and a half hours long and he seems to leave himself free for two hours, just in case it is one of those days when I need more time. Of course it begs the question for me, of whether I will ever be able to be weaned off having such long session (but I only see him once a week) but in my previous experience of therapy I get very busy in my life and start to feel after a while that I don't actually have two hours myself, as i am getting a life back!
Does any of this make sense?
I think the 50 minute hour is a bit contrived to say the least. Some days I just want an hour and some days the issues are laboriously hard to drag out of me and it takes longer. I struggle so hard in therapy to talk and move forward, as I sense you do - I think both our therapists would say we are very well motivated and work hard and try hard to move forward and also tackle difficult issues. So maybe you could gently ask your T to look at whether he is just a bit stuck on the mind set of the 50 minute hour and whether he would be amenable to pondering the possibility that some topics and some issues and some clients take longer to ease up and talk. Even when I charge straight in to something I have found that it is only after an hour that the real layer is revealed.
I wanted to say TN, that I have a theory that some of us, do take longer to get into deep stuff. It takes me between 40 60 minutes to be able to talk about the huge stuff and that is the same whether it is a one hour session or a two hour session - I just could not speed up. I don't think it is us being needy or demanding more time or manipulative, I am just slow to get near difficult things - it takes lots of reassurance. fortunately my own psychologist does not berate me for this and gives me sessions that are frequently one and a half hours long and he seems to leave himself free for two hours, just in case it is one of those days when I need more time. Of course it begs the question for me, of whether I will ever be able to be weaned off having such long session (but I only see him once a week) but in my previous experience of therapy I get very busy in my life and start to feel after a while that I don't actually have two hours myself, as i am getting a life back!
Does any of this make sense?
I think the 50 minute hour is a bit contrived to say the least. Some days I just want an hour and some days the issues are laboriously hard to drag out of me and it takes longer. I struggle so hard in therapy to talk and move forward, as I sense you do - I think both our therapists would say we are very well motivated and work hard and try hard to move forward and also tackle difficult issues. So maybe you could gently ask your T to look at whether he is just a bit stuck on the mind set of the 50 minute hour and whether he would be amenable to pondering the possibility that some topics and some issues and some clients take longer to ease up and talk. Even when I charge straight in to something I have found that it is only after an hour that the real layer is revealed.
Thank you both UV and Sadly for offering your thoughts and comments to this issue I've been struggling with.
UV...my T has very few sessions after 5 pm and those are already filled with long time clients who I can't bump. His book is filled and I had to wait for someone to leave to get a regular appointment with him. People just know he is good and he is busy. I do understand this and the reason I did get in to see him is that I can go during the daytime hours. He is worth it and I am learning to mostly contain myself after sessions. Sometimes I go back to work and sit in the ladies room for ten minutes to organize myself to come back to real life. I do sometimes wonder if it's my ability to dissociate from pain that enables me to do this and then I think that I'm just being asked to reinforce this behavior I'm trying to stop. It gets really confusing.
Hi Sadly. I'm glad that your sweet P offers you these longer sessions and that allows you to finally get to the really deep and troubling issues. I do agree that it just takes some of us longer to feel safe enough and reassured enough to get there. I sometimes see myself (in my head) going around and around in ever smaller circles when I need to talk to him about something urgent until I get to the center of it.
We did have a dicussion one time where I requested a couple of longer (double) sessions when I am ready to discuss two or three particularly difficult situations in my life. We will do this by pre-arrangement and he said he was okay with that as he understands that somethings just take a bit longer.
Hope things are improving for you Sadly.
Take care,
TN
UV...my T has very few sessions after 5 pm and those are already filled with long time clients who I can't bump. His book is filled and I had to wait for someone to leave to get a regular appointment with him. People just know he is good and he is busy. I do understand this and the reason I did get in to see him is that I can go during the daytime hours. He is worth it and I am learning to mostly contain myself after sessions. Sometimes I go back to work and sit in the ladies room for ten minutes to organize myself to come back to real life. I do sometimes wonder if it's my ability to dissociate from pain that enables me to do this and then I think that I'm just being asked to reinforce this behavior I'm trying to stop. It gets really confusing.
Hi Sadly. I'm glad that your sweet P offers you these longer sessions and that allows you to finally get to the really deep and troubling issues. I do agree that it just takes some of us longer to feel safe enough and reassured enough to get there. I sometimes see myself (in my head) going around and around in ever smaller circles when I need to talk to him about something urgent until I get to the center of it.
We did have a dicussion one time where I requested a couple of longer (double) sessions when I am ready to discuss two or three particularly difficult situations in my life. We will do this by pre-arrangement and he said he was okay with that as he understands that somethings just take a bit longer.
Hope things are improving for you Sadly.
Take care,
TN
I think this double session, pre arranged- idea is the solution here. I feel inordinately grateful to my psychologist for being flexible on time for me. I am in a very unusual position really. I get free therapy, which is flexible between one and a half hours a week and sometimes he stretches that spontaneously to 2 hours. So I always set aside two hours. And it is FREE!!!! Plus a one hour phone call imbetween the weekly session if I need it. I dare not ask him WHY he is so kind to me. I suspect that he would say that he feels I have been through such utter hell in my life and have struggled hiding it all for so long, that it is about time somebody was really there for me. which is sweet.
BUt I still think my point that the 50 minute hour is contrived, and when you or I are just warming up, it is not that we are manipulative, we are just struggling hard to become able to say it. wihtout being too specific, (blush) there are other areas in my life, where I cannot be rushed, but they are physiological (more blushes) and if my H insisted that I only took 15 mins I would have to tell him that I just cannot rush something like that, it takes time.
Do say when you get a longer session, and whether it helps.
I love the good work you are doing with this guy. He is good. Good luck and may you be able to go where you need.
BUt I still think my point that the 50 minute hour is contrived, and when you or I are just warming up, it is not that we are manipulative, we are just struggling hard to become able to say it. wihtout being too specific, (blush) there are other areas in my life, where I cannot be rushed, but they are physiological (more blushes) and if my H insisted that I only took 15 mins I would have to tell him that I just cannot rush something like that, it takes time.
Do say when you get a longer session, and whether it helps.
I love the good work you are doing with this guy. He is good. Good luck and may you be able to go where you need.