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Anxiety without content

russrussMember
This is what my T called what I'm experiencing. In other words, after almost three years of therapy, we still don't really know what the hell is causing me to experience this chronic, hellish head fog of fear that I live with everyday, and I'm really losing any hope of there ever being an answer and a way out. Nothing I do or feel seems to make the thing budge one way or the other, and there's no relief.

He then suggested that I "become a researcher" and find out as much information I can about my family and my family genealogy in order to shed light on the psychology of my parents and, in turn, myself. This made me feel even more hopeless.

I've already grilled everyone in my family about all this stuff and it hasn't helped one bit. Yeah, I've learned that I was born into a family that never really communicated, with an emotionally reserved mother and a distant, cold, detached, reluctant, dismissive father. I know that being 6 years younger than my next, closest sibling makes me almost and only child. I learned a lot of stuff, but it hasn't resulted in anything leading to the source of my problem. It has not led to some experiencing of new/old/repressed feelings of hurt or anger that would explain the presence of the symptoms, which I was hoping it would. It's like this thing isn't related to anything. It's just there, an enormous, unmovable object with no explanation for being.

Meanwhile, I'm becoming more and more hopeless that I'll have get out of this hole. What I live with is not excessive worry, which is what many people think anxiety is. Rather, what I live with is an intense, physical sensation of dread and impending doom in the form of a heavy feeling behind my eyes and in the front of my head.

Imagine spending your days wearing one of those heavy, old-time diving bells on your head. You experience everything from inside this muffled, muted environment and it makes it impossible to connect with the people and world around you. That's very much what my experience is like, and it's horrifying. I feel like the sickest person who ever lived.

It's pure hell, and after all this time and all this therapy, I still don't know what is causing it.

I don't know what to do. I don't take meds, other than the occasional anti-anxiety pill, but I guess that's my next step because I can't take this anymore.

Things I used to love doing...cycling, photography, reading, hanging out with friends, it's all lost any enjoyment or meaning for me because I feel like crap all the time. It always makes me laugh when I read that one of the symptoms of depression is not finding enjoyment in things you used to. I mean, duh. It's like trying to enjoy the things you used to while wearing an anvil around your neck and having a stick jammed in your eye.

I even had my thyroid tested to make sure there isn't some physical cause. And all the while I have to hold down a job and attempt to be a partner in a relationship with my girlfriend. It honestly feels like some alien force inside me that's trying to snuff out my spirit for no apparent reason by making me suffer this awful but really hard to describe or relate feeling.

I'm starting to really hate my life, and it all seems so unfair. I was never asked to be brought into this world, and I'm starting to wish I never was.

I guess what I'm hoping to hear are any stories of people who were in a similar position with their mental health and were somehow able to get out of it. I could really stand to hear some hopeful stories from folks who've dealt with something that seemed like it was permanent.

Thanks for listening.
Russ
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Attachment GirlAttachment GirlAdmin
Hi Russ,
It's been good to have you posting again. I am sorry though that you still find yourself stalled in this hellish place. I am wondering at this point if trying some medication might help and here's why. You seem to be working really hard in your talk therapy and your T sounds like he knows what he's doing, yet you're not getting anywhere. I went through something similar much earlier on in therapy. I was VERY medication resistant because my family had such a crappy history of self-medication and addiction that I thought the last thing I wanted to do was use drugs. It took my T talking to me for about nine months (along with pressure from my insurance company to be very honest) to get me to at least try some anti-depressants. Turns out I respond well to them. Once I got on them, it gave me some space to move around in for lack of better words. I was just totally maxed out trying to deal with my life and the emotional stew, and it was leaving me with zero resources to actually try and dwelve into my stuff. It's a catch-22. You need energy to see what's going on and make changes, but all of your energy is tied up in coping with whatever you're holding down. Taking the medication gave me just enough relief that I freed up some energy and focus to actually start moving. I am wondering if you might find the same kind of relief. If they can find some medication to reduce that awful fog, you may be able to focus enough to start getting a handle on what's going on.

I would highly recommend going to a psychiatrist's practice which specials in psychopharmocology. Finding the right mix of drugs can be complex for some people and it's better to deal with someone who has experience with these classes of medication.

And fwiw, I am still on anti-depressants even now that I'm done with therapy (I go for a 10 minute appt once every three months to oversee my meds) and probably will be for the rest of my life. The reading I have done has shown links between long term trauma and brain development. Long-term trauma can actually retard the development of neuroreceptors in the brain so that you don't naturally produce enough serotonin, so I think I need ADs the way a diabetic needs insulin. I have an older sister and we're very similar in many ways including our reactions to medication. She has gone on and off the ADs (we're actually both on the same drug) and finds that when she's off them she is prone to slipping back into depression and suicidal ideation. Good enough for me! My medication really works with very little side effects (I am VERY lucky, that is not true for a lot of people) so I am taking a "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" attitude.

All of this is my long-winded way of saying that medication is simply one more tool in the toolbox and it might be a resource that can help you. I don't think meds are a complete solution, and for some people they're not even a part of the solution. But since you seem to be at an impasse, it just seems to make sense that you at least give them a try. I really hate to think of someone like you hating their life. You're too great a guy to live that way.

AG
russrussMember
Hi AG,

Thanks so much for your input and support. I've had a prescription for 10mg of Celexa for a while, but as you said, I hate the idea of something messing with my brain chemicals so I've never stuck with it for long. I also hate the idea of my emotions being tamped down and my libido being muffled. But hell, I'm not feeling much emotion now, so I might as well try them.

This is getting ridiculous. As you say, I need some space and peace and degree of OK-ness to be able to think about my stuff instead of spending all my energy suffering, so I'm going to try them again and see what happens.

I have this belief that I have it in me to be OK without any medication - I mean I was fine without it for the first 40 years of my life - and that if I can just get to the root of my problems, the evil symptoms will dissolve on their own. My therapist believes this, too. But at the same time, I'm dying here, and so far therapy alone hasn't triggered whatever change needs to happen for the symptoms to cease being necessary.

quote:
but all of your energy is tied up in coping with whatever you're holding down.


What I'm holding down. That's the perfect way to describe what this thing also feels like...it's like something is being held down relentlessly, literally.

Pretty much the only thing I know for sure is what aggravates my symptoms the most...two things, basically: Interactions with my family and emotional/physical intimacy, whether with my girlfriend or my T.

About a week and a half ago, I had a dream that I was in my house. (I have lots of dreams that take place in my house). In this particular dream, I am on my way to work, and as usual, I leave the house through my walk-out basement. In the dream, my therapist is in my basement, as if he's showed up to do some work, like a plumber or electrician, except in the dream, there's really nothing for him to do. He's really just there. I say hello to him and head to work.

Since this dream I've been feeling especially awful. My T feels that this is because the dream represents a part of me wanting a kind of connection/closeness with him that my ego is resistant to, and the conflict has ramped up the pain. The other night he said, "the difference in symptoms between a 101 degree fever and a 102 degree fever is a lot. All you need is a tiny bit more of a break for things to get a lot worse."

He also used another analogy that as a computer person I can really relate to, namely that it only takes one wrong character in a script, one misplaced semi-colon or one line of code that's missing a line terminator, one tiny error in syntax for the entire program to break. I found this slightly encouraging, hoping that whatever my problem is, it may be very small, and that correcting it will fix the larger "application" and propagate out to other parts of my life. This is what I'm praying for at this point.

So I'm hoping, hoping, hoping that the medication will allow me to focus on what seems to be a very serious conflict about intimacy, a conflict to huge that it's making my psyche very ill.

Anyway, thanks again AG for your feedback. I'm glad you're doing well and I hope you've recovered from your recent illness.

Best,
Russ
russrussMember
Hi DF,

Thanks for responding. I got the Celexa (or rather the generic, citalopram) from a psych doc that my T knows. To be honest, don't have a high opinion of psychiatry. The few that I have seen are completely clueless about the psyche and really only try their best to match your symptoms with the best meds, which I know is their job and is important, but man, there's no humanity there at all.

I remember asking the psyche doc what he thought about anxiety being the result of unfelt feelings trying to come into consciousness and I swear he looked at me like I had 9 heads. He had NO idea what I was talking about. I don't know why he prescribed Celexa over Lexapro if Lexapro is generally better for anxiety, but I guess I'll just have to wait and see.

quote:
Like thinking of events in childhood that are coming up now as one mislabeled global variable or something that I just need to fix and the whole thing will compile. Maybe someday, huh?

Smiler

I love it. If it ever happens for either of us, let's have a virtual drink to celebrate.

Here's a strange thing about my situation. I eat well, I exercise (I play squash 3 times a week, despite feeling like hell most of the time while I'm doing it), so I'm pretty fit. While I totally agree that diet and fitness are critical to wellness, they don't seem to have much of an impact on my feeling state, which again leads me to believe that the root of my problem is somewhere in the most fundamental, basic building blocks of my psyche.

quote:
I do know exactly what you mean when you talk about anxiety not being worry, that it is a feeling of impending doom - a lack of safety. Maybe that is what you are feeling... unsafe, but yet not entirely sure why.


For sure. I don't feel safe, but it's a feeling of not feeling safe from my own mind, which is pretty awful. Truth is, I don't think I ever really felt safe, emotionally or psychologically because what my parents gave me to internalize for a foundation was pretty weak. I could also describe it as feeling like I don't have a kind of solid structure of person.

I should also mention that for years I had chronic low back pain. I mean 24/7, for like 5 years. I was never, EVER without it. The chronicity of that pain is pretty much the same as the chronicity of my head thing now. But now I don't have any back pain at all. It's like the back pain migrated up to my cerebral cortex. Think the two might be related?

Thanks again for getting in touch. I hope you're well.

Russ
J jillMember
my two cents on anxiety. that was my main symptom a year ago in therapy. impending unknown doom is a good way to term it.

generally it was a few triggers that colllectively took me back to my childhood. could have been the weather (i grew up in an area with high humidity and cloudiness) ... anyway, it is helpful to try to see if there is anything you can tie into the content, no matter how irrelevant it might seem. i know the television on during the daytime depresses me..old strings.

that helped me, as did clonozapin (clonapin generic, i think). it is just a melt in your mouth discreet pill i take when i need it, and really, now a year later, i rarely need it. the anxiety has evolved into depression, which i doubt is a good direction, but, all these things are so hard to put a finger on. and by their intangibility, to me, seem to be just weakness about 'nothing'.. i have slowly tried to accept that emotions are real, feelings are real (a concept pooh poohed by my parents as weakness, and ridiculed), and these things take a long time to get over. the frustrating thing is, it takes a good brain to overcome irrational thinking, and, how can an irrational brain (such as mine) overcome irrationality!! the chicken and the egg...how i would rather have a foot in a cast, something i could see and measure and understand the natural healing process.

all this to say, is, i do believe there are subtle links to what triggers my anxiety, and from one who was chronically anxious for many years, i will say, it is better. i think the dbt has helped a bit with it, as my coping skill of 'avoidance' of some situations to, in my mind, prevent problems, actually created more anxiety, as my unconscious KNEW i was avoiding what i needed to do.

i hope that helps and makes sense. anxiety is a toughie, but, the meds really helped, and i was not 'dull' on them, just a bit more relaxed, and often it kept me from lashing out in anger or irritation which would make me feel even worse.

good luck, jill
russrussMember
Hi jill,

Thanks for the feedback. For about 18 years, I had night time panic attacks about 12-15 times a year and would take Klonopin as needed during those times. Anywhere between 30-45 minutes later I'd be back to my old self and no worse for wear. Now Klonopin can barely touch how I feel.

quote:
i do believe there are subtle links to what triggers my anxiety


Me too, except that mine seems to be in a chronic state if being triggered. I know there's a reason. There's got to be. I don't believe it's simply some brain imbalance, although clearly that's the result of whatever process is happening.

I'm glad to hear your anxiety is better if not completely resolved.

Thanks again.
Russ
macmacMember
Right after reading your post I remembered that allergies to dairy and gluten can both cause brain fog. I'll just flat out give you my reccomendation and then feel free to leave it: Go on a 21 day detox from all allergy causing foods including dairy, soy, gluten and eggs. After 21 days pick one food at a time to add back in and stick with that food for 2 weeks. If adding that food back in makes you feel worse, you're allergic to it.
Here's a site on food allergies and depression: http://depression.about.com/cs.../a/foodallergies.htm
At the bottom it talks about brain fog caused by the proteins in dairy.
-Mac
Last edited by mac
russrussMember
Hi Mac,

Thanks for the advice on diet. You know, I've been thinking about doing a detox just to see if could do it, but I have screwed up the courage just yet. It's a great suggestion tho, and if I ever actually do it I'll be sure to document it here.

DF,

My T is actually a man Smiler, but I take your point. I don't know if my relationship with him can heal me. The whole thing seems too enormous and awful to be fixed by my thing with him. But I could be wrong. I also happen to believe that my unconscious is largely in control of my experience, and whether or not I make progress is almost out of my conscious hands. I know that sounds strange, but it's how it feels.

As for the back pain, I believe that it - along with my unexplained GI issues, hand and arm pain, hives, etc. - are all part of the same process. I don't know what that process is...perhaps it's a distraction strategy of some kind...but I was damn near crippled with back pain, but very slowly and imperceptibly it faded away, only to be replaced with what I deal with now.

At the moment, I'm having a major crisis of faith in therapy. My therapist is excellent and he's doing every single thing in his power to help me, but if I'm going to heal, I feel like it's going to come from somewhere else. Where exactly I don't know, but that's the feeling I have right now.

Thanks for your input. I really appreciate it.

Russ
jonesjonesMember
Hey Russ,

Just to add one more to the pot - meditation? I don't use it myself, but it's on my list of 'things I could try if all this craps out'. I think it's good to have a lengthy back-up list, helps me stave off despair. Smiler

And seriously, something in the way you write about it specifically makes me think of this direction. The chasing and chasing after an answer that is unrelentingly elusive. It's like Kafka or something. I feel for you. Meditation I understand is just practice in absolutely being with what is, which might give you some relief from the chasing.

Take care.

Jones
True NorthTrue NorthCo-moderator
Hi Russ. I don't have much to add here but to say I'm sorry this horrible anxiety is feeling so overwhelming and nothing so far has helped it. I had a ton of it when I first started therapy and then after working with oldT for awhile it lessened considerably. Of course, it all came roaring back when he abandoned me. I was so anxious in the mornings I could not get out of bed. It was different from the depressed kind of can't move. It was more from some unknown fear that if I left the bed something terrible was going to happen to me. And it got really bad when we had to pack for our vacation which was 10 days after oldT abandoned me. I called D in terror that I was going to die on vacation or my house would burn down or just something so awful was going to happen to me and that I was going to lose everything. Well, I guess it made sense because I HAD just lost everything... my T, my attachment figure, my therapy, my hope...all gone in a split second. I still have a hard time with the mornings and in falling asleep. I shake and tremble and wait for something terrible to happen.

It has gotten a little better since seeing newT and in feeling some connection to him. It takes me less time to get up in the morning although it's still hard. And it takes very little to set off those anxiety alarms in my head again. I cannot tolerate any stress at all.

I am not on meds and I was actually surprised that newT didn't push them on me. He mentioned them, I said no, he didn't push and never brought it up again even though he has dx'd me as depressed. Maybe he is taking a wait and see stance on this. I do know it's a major decision to start a med regime but if nothing else is working for you it may be a good option. As others have reported, it has really been helpful for them.

Whatever you decide, I hope this fog lifts for you very soon and I wish the best for you and would support whatever you decide to do.

Best,
TN
russrussMember
DF,

Thanks for the excellent advice. I am actually hoping to do something adventurous this year. I love the idea of the zip line thing. A friend of mine is currently in Laos where he's staying at a place where you stay in a treehouse like 50 feet above the jungle and zip line all over the place. I'd love to do something like that.


Jones,

quote:
The chasing and chasing after an answer that is unrelentingly elusive. It's like Kafka or something. I feel for you. Meditation I understand is just practice in absolutely being with what is, which might give you some relief from the chasing.


This is so, so true. It IS like a Kafka story, or like some feedback loop that I'm perpetuating myself without really being aware of it. I used to meditate, but I kind of lost interest, but I appreciate your suggestion and maybe I'll give it another try.


Hi TN,

Thanks for your support. I truly appreciate it. And thanks for describing your own experience. Maybe to say it's anxiety isn't even correct. Maybe it's just my own unique kind of depression.

On Friday, my T said that the feeling in my head, "isn't anxiety, but it gives shape to the anxiety." He describes it as me being spread-eagled over a giant hole, and to be sucked into the hole means to be sucked into a kind of psychological death, which makes perfect sense because it does feel like I'm about to lose my mind or go crazy, etc., and of course that's terrifying.

So as a metaphor, it does have a kind of content I guess. He then says that the metaphor of a hole is appropriate because there's a hole - or a kind of rupture - in my family, and the terror of the hole is a kind of memory of that condition that I may be holding at bay.

My T doesn't push meds either, but I feel like I need a level of functionality and a level of OK-ness in order to live my life. I detest the idea for a lot of reasons, but at this point I feel like I have no other options.

Thanks again, and that to everyone for your support. I really value this place.
Russ

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