Uncovering your emotional template (so to speak), now that sounds intriguing!....Body Logic? I have never heard of it.....Can you kindly provide an explanation?

Hi Debra, thanks for asking. Yeah, it's not the easiest type of work I"ve done. It's intended to break down emotional patterns and trauma that's held in the fascia and the bones. There's a procedure of moving through each area of the body in one session. The bodyworker attempts to dig into your body past the muscles by applying pressure. It's quite painful. The woman I see says that most people who come to her are ready for a shift. I've had lots of body psychotherapy so I felt ready. I'm supplementing it with bodyrolling which helps break down these patterns. It should help with my posture and making material available that I have yet to deal with. So we shall see...

Wow! Surely there must be less painful ways of breaking down those emotional patterns.....Of course, I am always open to new ideas....not sure that I would want to try something physically painful when I already struggle with so much emotional pain....how much pain can one individual endure?? LOL!!! For more years than I care to remember, I considered myself an emotional cripple...that my emotions were indeed my weakness....During my eight short years of therapy (LOL), I have become aware that my emotions are actually my strength....without them, I would not be the compassionate, caring, and empathetic person that I am....You have indeed captured my attention with your written words..."uncovering my emotional template".....I would like to uncover mine....as painlessly as possible....

Yes, Debra I totally agree about our emotions being a strength. I mean even feeling stronger inside is based on an emotion. For example, I don't think I could have taken so many risks with this website without having worked on myself emotionally.

I wouldn't even recommend body logic for someone who is currently feeling emotional pain. (A body logic practitioner might think otherwise.) I wouldn't even recommend it for someone who isn't regulated i.e. who doesn't process energy well. (I wrote about dysregulation here: http://www.myshrink.com/showtlingo.php?t_id=76

Emotional pain can go underground, deeper into the nervous system and into the bones, muscles and fascia. I may not be experiencing emotional distress but I know that my emotions are limiting me to what I potentially could experience in life. So for me, body logic offers a different way in.

I haven't had that many sessions so I will have to see how it works out. I'll keep in touch with my progress though.

That would be great to follow your progress.....thank you for "putting" yourself "out there"......

Hi Debra, well body logic so far has been regressive for me. It put me into a freeze state. I noticied it because I stopped writing on the site. I feel like I'm just lifting my head up now. But it's doing exactly what I wanted and that is to stir some things up for me. The way I look at it is that when you can't access material emotionally, going through the body is the next best thing.

I just added a couple new characters. Have you seen them?
Bye for now, Suzanne

Hello Suzanne:

I wondered what had happened....I had noticed that you were "updating" the site less frequently......I sensed that there was something.....but not sure just what....my intuitive sense kicks in quite a bit....frightening some times!.....In fact, it can move me to a place of overwhelm....which further results in my body experiencing a freeze response....perhaps not in the same way as you..... With regards to the body logic....thank you for sharing.....maybe we need to take a few steps back before we can move forward??? I am most positive that I will stick with the burden of just feeling and moving through the emotional pain that I carry with me always.....no body logic for me.... With regards to the new characters, I have seen the one with the pokey up hair (or at least I think that is what is sticking up-and I think that it is a girl??)....love the look of this character (have not really understood why yet.....food for thought)......I will search for the others..... Again, thank you for sharing...take good care ...Deb

Hi Debra, thank-you for your warm thoughts. Yes, it's been a bit of a ride. Where I really noticed the freeze was in the flatness of my affect. I didn't have the normal excitement I ususally have in working on the site. Nothing was coming up for me emotionally. I wasn't having any emotional bouts or memories. But definitely some of my physical problems re-surfaced and I read that as something emotionally is getting stirred up underneath. I think I pushed my body too much with the logic, the body rolling and homeopathic remedies I've been on for months...just wanting to get on with it I guess.

During this time I saw a chiropractor. I didn't really see the need to see a chiropractor but a good friend said this person was really good and could be helpful. It took 3 months to get in to see her. She was an amazing woman, very enlightened and she was even aware that the womb environment and the birth of the infant can be traumatizing. (We can carry those patterns forward.) Anyway, she did a manipulation on me and as her body leaned into me (she's has a large frame) I stiffened up. Then she said, "you have to trust me". Well, she doesn't get that piece. You see, it doesn't matter how much I trust her, if my body is not ready to trust her, it's not going to relax into it.
Anyway, that was enough of an inspiration to get me back into it again. You see, one of the messages of MyShrink is that our reptilian brain controls us much more than we realize. And that's how I see why I was going into freeze. My body just pulled back. It was too much too soon.
Well that's my take on it anyway.
Talk to you later, Suzanne

Suzanne:

Thank you for sharing.....I have always been amazed/intrigued by the functioning of the human body....both in my role as an intensive care nurse where I see patients move from single organ to multi-organ failure-some survive and others do not-this cannot really be explained) as well as personally (one example...how did I run an ICU weighing 85 lbs at 5'5" so perfectly?-my body should have shut-down, pathophysiologically speaking, but it didn't...why?) ...again another mystery.....some survive, others do not....why??) ....Your comment on trust and the body....I had not understood until I read your comment about being able or wanting to trust the chiropractor but your body not being ready....I can apply this to myself and my work with my therapist.....I want to trust her yet my body just is not cooperating with this process......Logically or intellectually speaking, should one not be able to trust a therapist? Well, I had an unfortunate/negative experience with a therapist who had betrayed me....as a result, my body just won't let me trust another one (emotionally that is).....I guess that when my body is ready or really feels safe, I will be able to take that leap of faith.....

Take good care of yourself.....
Deb

Hi Debra, your story is amazing. It's funny eh, who continues to survive in those situations. There's something about a will to live. Maybe it's a spiritual thing...

It sounds like you've done a lot of work on yourself and that you've come a long way. Do you still struggle with weight issues? I know from my own practice it's much more complicated than the diet/eating behaviour industry makes out. It takes years to undo what I believe comes from early stuff.

Body psychotherapy was the way in for me. Therapy was so vague in terms of results before I had that. So, that's why I know with the chiropractor my body wouldn't let me 'let go'. Thankfully, I've learned a lot from my own therapist about letting go. She basically taught my body.

I haven't been doing body logic BTW. My back went into spasm! Yup, in no uncertain terms it said "no". But now I'm getting myofascial release. That's very cool. I can cross my arms without them feeling tight and my hips are releasing--but very slowly.

Well good chatting with you Debra,
Hope all is well,
Suzanne

Suzanne:

Yes, I have done alot of work on myself....the $50,000.00 ++ that have I spent was and continues to be the best investment that I have ever made....that of taking care of "me"....cuz I matter (my therapist says so....so it must be true!!! LOL)....I weigh in at a whopping 127-130 lbs and have maintained this weight since leaving the program at St Paul's in 1999......but it sure has not been a picnic....everyday I must remind myself that I deserve to eat.....I have my meal plan for the day etched in my mind....breakfast= 2 starch, 1 protein, 1 dairy, and 2 fruit/veg....lunch = 2 starch, 2 protein, 1 dairy, 2 fruit/veg....dinner= 2 starch, 3 protein, 2 fruit/veg, 1 dairy......I have to say this everyday.....over and over......I had/have to remove emotion and access the intellectual aspect of my being to give myself the permission to eat.....weird huh?? But it works for me....and that is what matters (cuz I matter, my therapist says so!!! LOL). Of course, there is a little negotiation between meals.....a girl has to have some fun!.....I can always tell when I am stressed.....I feel fat.....(of course my therapist tells me "fat" is not a feeling.....I beg to differ.....I had to bring her my Webster's Unabridged Dictionary which clearly defines feeling as: a physical sensation not connected with sight, hearing, taste, or smell...."fat" is indeed a feeling!!! I guess that I was just needing to prove a point to her by bringing this to her attention).....And then, it's important for me to discover/uncover/understand that I need to pay attention to what is making me stressed and then deal with the identified stressor....then the feeling of fatness goes away....Cool huh?? I agree with you, it will take years to undo all the frick and frack that came from my "early stuff"....I am grateful that my therapist is a patient being (amongst other things!!!)....Anyway....Enough about me....

I am glad to hear that body psychotherapy has been helpful for you.....I am equally happy to hear that you have discovered that body logic has not been helpful.....It is very important to "listen" to your body.....Thank you for giving yourself that gift......Can you kindly describe for me what you mean by myofascial release?? Also, is this a result of the body psychotherapy?? A curious Deb would like to know........Thank you for sharing these thoughts with me.....

Take good care of yourself....
Deb

Hi Deb, thanks so much for being so open. You've worked hard to get beyond your stuff. I remember reading once, that as long as we have at least one person who we feel knows us as we are, that can help us a lot. And I suspect that for many of us, that person just might be our therapist.

I went searching for the answer to your question about the fascia. Apparently, the fascia surrounds the body like a sac, holding us together. If you've ever seen raw chicken, it's the thin, clear tissue that's around it.
One problem that arises is the fascia can get pulled too tight--accounting for headaches in some people. It is theorized to "hold" our emotional traumas but I'm not sure how they determine this other than working with individuals.

When my bodyworker works with it, she cross fibres the muscle i.e. she moves the skin and muscles in a way that's perpendicular to the natural way the muscle fibre goes. I haven't noticed any "discharge" or "release" at least not while I'm on the table.

Have you had any bodywork Deb?
Suzanne

Hi Suzanne:

I have truly been blessed....I vividly remember my first meeting with my present therapist (the most remarkable woman I know).....She said, and I quote her.... "This is the beginning of a lengthy relationship"..... She freaked me out!!!! My first thought was...."I don't have relationships with woman"....and my second thought was.... "Two months tops and I am so out of here"....Well, several years and a few thousand incredible "moments" later, we have bonded and connected beyond how and what I ever imagined possible......I am at a loss for words to describe these moments....she has touched me in ways that no other human being ever has or ever will.....She has made an incredible difference for me in my life .....In fact, you know her.....(in case you are curious....her initials are CG).....

I am not so clear on what exactly body work or a body worker is.....Could you kindly provide an explanation?? I have been to a couple of massage therapists....if that counts.......

Thank you for taking/making the time to respond to my questions....Also, thank you for sharing your thoughts with me....I am honored.....

Take good care
Deb

Hi Deb, wow, thats great to hear. I know you're in good hands...I know she cares deeply for her clients.

What do you think? I think sometimes, it just takes one person. From what you describe of your relationship with her, I can imagine that it would go a long way to reducing the aloneness some of us feel...

I have so busy...never knew how much I had yet to learn with this Internet business, so I apologize for taking so long to get back to you. I noticed you responded to someone else's post. Thanks for hanging out here.

You had asked about bodywork. When I mention it, I guess I'm referring to the alternative approaches that go beyond massage. Myofascial release, visceral manipulation, lymphatic drainage, craniosacral and self-regulation therapy are the kinds I'm thinking of.

I often don't recommend massage therapy when that's all they would be getting for the reason that it has the potential to be activating. People don't realize when someone is touching their body, it's like they're "touching their brain". That is, massage can be triggering even tho in the minutes after the massage they may feel great. I prefer they see RMT's that have some of the skills above.

Talk to you later, Deb,
Suzanne

is body logic like somatic expeirncing? or? I couldnt find more info on it and am curious....

Butterfly Warrior:

Great question.....I am not sure about that.....have you read the book by Peter Levine titled "Waking the Tiger"? I read it quite some time ago...perhaps I need to reread it...

Deb

Hi Butterfly Warrior, I'm not an expert on either but I've had personal experience with both. Somatic experiencing is most likely the opposite to body logic. But there are some similar roots in their theories.

I've been trying to understand how body logic works for some folks and not others (like me). It really didn't work for me. In fact, I'd say it was traumatizing for me.

Body logic is exclusively a hands-on approach. SE can be done both with face to face and hands-on. SE "titrates" with the energy in the body. It works with small, fine amounts of activation. Working with the small amount enables the body to process and "let go" of the energy. For people who come from early trauma like me, it's great cause it gets at that non-verbal material that talk therapy finds hard to get at.

Body logic goes for the gusto. It moves right into the pain throughout the body following a deep tissue protocol. I found it extremely painful.

We've known for a long time that people who experience a small "t" trauma and resolve it successfully actually end up resolving earlier trauma as well i.e. automatically. That's why we think this "titration" method works so well. It's small enough to process.

I think for some people body logic is not as painful and so would become for some folks a small "t" trauma. If they are able to process this experience, it might provide the release necessary to clear up some earlier traumas.

This is my thinking at this point. But I'd still like to be sure that body logic isn't just moving the activation around. That is, clearing up pain in one area yet moving the activation deeper into the nervous system and possibly causing health problems that the individual never correlated it with.

It'd be nice to have a theory that helps explain the success and failures of these different techniques.
Thanks for asking,
Shrinklady

I think this sounds very interesting.

Someone mentioned "Waking the Tiger" which I did read and did enjoy. I think Dr Levine really has some good ideas in there.

Body logic sounds overwhelming to me but also interesting. The name makes me laugh because I think about how illogical trauma is and how the more logic you apply to it, the harder it is to make sense of it. You can't apply logic to what is illogical and yet there is this therapy called body logic. I'm sure it's not meant to be understood that way but just the same, it's rather amusing.

Do you think traditional "Exposure therapy" is enough to deal with larger traumas? Okay, that question is rather general and abstract. I suppose I'm trying to ask is it enough to do mind based work and not body based work. Im sure it will depend on the person, right?! It always does! In my own experiences with exposure therapy, I found that I had a lot of body memories.. at least I think that's what they are..... and other physiological sensations that drove me up the wall. I felt an inate need to have some sort of physical safe release but could not find that. Thus I began to explore types of theraputic body work.... i havent tried any though b/c I can't imagine finding the right person to feel safe enough with? Still I'm always curious to say.. HOW does this work. I did read an interesting article about this that someone sent me. I should see if i can find it and post it here.

I do have a massage therapist that plans to do trager type body work with me but this is more towards holisitc healing for my body/mind/spirit. I'm also embarking on this whole new lifestyle of mostly raw foods, etc but thats a different story.

I think there needs to be more information on these different treatments espeicaly in body work... guess time will tell.

Butterfly Warrior

Butterfly Warrior:
Wow, you have given me much food for thought....

Thanks
Deb