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A handful of you may remember that a couple of years ago I had a therapist I called 'Manatee'. Although I was very invested in the relationship and I did some good work with him, it didn't go well in the end. He was having a couple of major personal crises through much of our time together and it kept spilling over into the therapy.

Manatee was the fourth in a series of therapies that didn't work out for different reasons. I bumped from him to a couple more that didn't work out either. Eventually I sent a message to someone whose writings I had long admired and whose philosophy I appreciated, and asked if she would consider therapy by Skype (actually we use Facetime, which is much smoother). She agreed, and we have had a wonderfully productive relationship since then - about 9 months ago.

Last week I decided it was finally time to revisit the painful breakdown of the relationship with Manatee. I went back through old emails with him from the period when it started to go south and selected some to send to her.

The session that followed crystallised the differences between them in extraordinary ways - and even the differences between current T and the others before her.

The emails were from a period when I was in crisis. My relationship was breaking down, I had snapped and self-harmed (v unusual for me) and I was about to go on a trip away from home where I was under pressure and had no support.

I had an emergency session with Manatee before I left, which was helpful. Then while I was away I wrote a handful of emails to him to try to ground myself in my actual emotional reality and connect to him. I was frightened of losing the plot even more.

In general with Manatee I was allowed to write emails, but he made no promises of reading or responding to them. We decided it was a form of journal-keeping for me, and I tried not to expect a response because I never knew if one was coming. I also felt guilty, because I needed the contact but he was inconsistent about whether it was okay or not, and I felt I was asking for something out of bounds. In that period I was on my trip, his responses were erratic, brief and wildly misattuned. Summoning courage and trying to dig myself out of a deepening hole, I wrote that I sometimes felt a bit abandoned and isolated when he didn't respond, or when he responded only briefly - but that I knew this wasn't a 'fair' feeling, and I wasn't asking him to do something differently - I just wanted to acknowledge and share the feeling (which was a major echo of childhood pain that I was currently trying to process). He responded by reminding me that the arrangement was supposed to just be journal keeping and telling me why I couldn't expect a response from him. Then, in 'journal' mode, I wrote about a painful, paranoid nightmare I'd just had (in which I happened to be wearing rollerblades). He wrote back a brief breezy email saying it was an amazing dream, he loved rollerblades and he loved dreams.

Well, things got briefly better and then worse again on my return from the trip, and soon enough it was all over.

When I discussed these emails with my current T, she said she felt protective of the me in the past, and that her first reaction to reading his emails involved the words 'fXXXing aXXXole'. She said if she had had a client in that kind of crisis she would have set up safe ways for me to check in while I was away. She said 'that's the gig' - that as a therapist you take on looking out for your client's emotional well-being in the ways that you can - that even though this often happens imperfectly, and that mistakes are sometimes made, 'that's still the gig'. She acknowledged and shared in and validated my anger, and also encouraged me to talk about the loss involved of the positive aspects of my relationship with him, the context that led to this situation, and his humanity as well as his failure. And then she made time to very carefully and slowly go through the ways that she and I each saw the 'ghost of Manatee' as haunting my relationship with her. We talked about how to handle the related fears and anxieties that come up for me.

She reassured me that she felt NO intrusion from my contact emails, which are usually brief, purposeful and fairly self-sufficient (I'm often giving her something to 'hold', such as loneliness, fear, a dream, etc, or affirming an insight for myself, or marking out work I want to do with her soon). She said that she thought I used email in a really constructive way, and that she found it helpful both to have the emails and to have time to mull over certain things before session. She said she'd never had a sense of tracking the number or having a cut-off where I was 'too much'. She checked how I feel about her responses, which are usually simple and brief, but warm and attuned. I said they were fine 9 times out of 10, and she asked me to let her know when I felt especially anxious about emailing or worried about her response. She explained how she would handle it if her situation changed and she wasn't able to continue respond in the ways she has so far - that she would let me know something was happening at her end and she needed to handle things differently for a while, and she would work out a way to do that that was safe for me.

All of that in 45 minutes.

I think back to the guilt and strain I felt over pressure I was putting on Manatee, and how I assumed my needs were the problem. Manatee, who had good sides, actually acknowledged at the time that it was about an incompatibility in the ways we each needed to work. But I still felt that it was not possible for a therapist to meet my needs. Neither of the next two therapists I saw accepted email outside session and that seemed to confirm it.

I'm glad that I kept looking. The truth is I more or less had to because the needs never went away, and because I was committed to doing the work that would let me find a better quality of life. I don't know what the long-term outcome will be of having such a different kind of relationship but I do know that the therapeutic relationship now very much feels like an asset and a support in my life, rather than a strain.

Writing this up because I hope that others who are stuck with relationships that are strained and painful in this ongoing, counter-productive way will at least consider the possibility that we ARE allowed what we want, that it may be possible to find it.
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Jones, your skype T sounds awesome. She sounds much more attuned, even though she is miles away, than your previous T who you would see in the flesh. Life has weird way of working out sometimes. Good for you.

My T, let's me leave her voicemails, to "hold" a lot of my emotions. Financially, I can't go as often as I need, so we have settled on me being able to call and check in. I don't get a reply unless I ask for one and this has worked out really well for me.

I think it's very important for the therapist to be attuned regardless of the circumstances. I am happy this T is working out for you and thanks for giving this perspective.
Jones - what you wrote really resonated with me. I wasn't here when you had your former T but am very happy to read about this positive, healthy, attuned relationship you have with your T now. It sounds like she gets you and has created a safe, holding, containing space for you (both inside and outside session). That is so important in this work!

I've been extremely lucky to only have one T (who I randomly chose). She allows outside contact and never ever shames me for wanting that connection or wanting to unload some painful feelings that I have trouble carrying for the week. She has made it safe for me to talk about my needs...and she actually wants to meet them. Of course it is impossible to meet every childhood need (and adulthood need for that matter), but she works to meet as many as are appropriate.

I often read of others' Ts who seem to create a space where it's sometimes conditional, or where they are met with shaming responses (or lack of responses). I hope that these people know that it's not them! Our needs are not too much (although, god knows, I know they feel TOO MUCH). There are so many Ts out there. It is so worth it to find the right one for you. The right one for me is not necessarily the right one for my best friend...so it takes some time and definitely a lot of courage. But the right one is out there.

I'm glad you seem to be doing well! I enjoyed reading about your current T relationship. It sounds very comforting. Smiler
(((JONES)))

I'm so happy for you that you have found someone who meets your needs. I'm also very happy that you have been able to resolve some of the issues you had with ending with Manatee. Your newT sounds terrific.

quote:
will at least consider the possibility that we ARE allowed what we want, that it may be possible to find it.


Your thread is so inspiring. I'm like you in that I've often needed support outside of that 45-minute time-frame. I've struggled with me being too much. As I get more comfortable reaching out for me T when I need support, I find that it's easier for me to experience whatever anxiety it is I had been feeling (aside from any anxiety related to reaching out), to cope with it and work through it. Before that, I did get stuck right there in that, "I am too much? and Is he annoyed?" mode that reaching out was often counterproductive. Aside from my stuff, if you have a T, like Manatee, who isn't committed to providing the support you need, it makes it that much more complicated.

Once again, I'm so happy for you and thanks for updating and sharing.
OH Jones,

Your post resonated with me so much. And helped me make sense of my situation right now (which I might post else where). It's so hard when we seek therapy and somehow it isn't ok - and all the self-blame that we can end up heaping upon the already hurting places Frowner

I'm glad you have a T that is looking out for your needs (and I have to own that I wish I did too). And it is so true that the ghosts of previous relationships haunt our new ones - how perceptive.

I needed your message that we ARE allowed to have needs/wants met - at least some of them, sometimes.

SB
(((Jones)))
Having been around for Manatee (and forgive me, agreeing with your new Ts assessment of him Big Grin, have to love her!) this made for wonderful reading. I am very glad that you are experiencing the kind of attunement and containment that makes it safe to explore your inner world. I am even happier that you can now *know* that you were not asking too much or doing anything wrong. I always knew when you had the right T, someone with your wisdom and introspection would do amazing work. So good you have found your "match." Thank you for the update.

love, AG
Hi Jones,
Thank you. It really helps me to hear your story. Thank you for thinking of those of us who could use the insight and encouragement.

I am feeling worn out, fragile, confused, and sometimes very emotional about what I want, if it is OK, and if and how I can get it. I am in the middle of ex-Ts, current Ts, and new Ts right now, and it is very "educational," but tough. I hope that I can get what I am looking for soon.

I am very glad that you kept searching and found your T. Wow, you did cover a lot of ground in 45 minutes! Please enjoy the benefits of that relationship--and keep growing.


Quell
Hi Becca - So glad you too have a T who works with you on what you need despite the financial constraints. Money is an issue for me with this too, so I see her once every two weeks, and have a 15 minute email check in for a small fee on the other week. But she has no issue with me writing emails outside of that. It makes such a huge difference to know they *want* to work with you, rather than wanting your needs to evaporate! I hope it continues to go well for you.

Erica - Yes, it feels increasingly safe and contained - it's lovely. Each time I give her some new part of my story she takes it in and I feel better. It's terrific that your T is on board with you on this too. It makes the work so much easier.

Liese - (((hug))) nice to see you! Yes, I totally get the self-questioning you mention - the anxiety and hypervigilance amps up and it's hard to think about anything except making the situation right. I think in ideal circumstances a low-contact approach would be fine with many clients, but some of us just work better with higher availability.

Sapphire-Blue, I'm so glad this message resonated. I will post on your other thread shortly. (((Hug))) It really sounds like you have been doing it tough.

Hi AG! (((Hug))) Haha - yes, he did indeed have his limitations. But somehow through all that we did SOME work that was very meaningful for me - which actually made it much harder to end and find something better. It was hard, too, to have much hope of finding something better after having tried with so many different people. But once I'd stepped out of the box a bit and found the right thing - well, I'm discovering how hard I was having to work for the progress I did make - swimming against the tide. Thanks for your support through all that, and for being happy for me. Smiler

Quell, Thank you, and I'm so glad to hear it was helpful - I did think of you. I read your thread about your amazing therapy week and was so impressed with how you put yourself out there to find what you need. I'm not surprised you're feeling exhausted now. I hope you can take a rest and give yourself a pat on the back for how much you did in exploring all those avenues. Maybe now with a little rest and quiet what feels right will become clear to you - I hope you are soon able to settle into a relationship that will grow with you in all the ways you need.
Hi Jones-- It's so nice to read that you have finally found a therapy situation that works for you and makes you understand that you can have what you need and that your are NOT too much.

My T reminds me often that I am not too much and when I try to ration emails and phone calls out of fear and then explain to him that I don't want to violate that privilege and email too much he asks me whose rules are those? I admit they are mine and he smiles at me and tells me that we go by HIS rules and he has no limit on emails and phone calls and I won't run out of his good will in this regard. Then he tells me that I ask so little of him and that it's his pleasure to provide whatever I need. And he always checks in with me in session to ask if his response to me was helpful or if the phone call was what I needed. His philosophy (aside from being consistently consistent) is that when someone is deprived it does no good to further deprive them of what they need and what they didn't have growing up. I do understand about the ghost of Manatee haunting the new therapy relationship. OldT haunts mine with my T and although we have worked through a lot of it, the trauma he caused me impact my ability to fully trust another T. T often reminds me he is NOT oldT but there is a lot of transference floating around in the room.

It took me 5 T's to find this one and I'm so glad I didn't give up and settle. Even in my traumatized state I KNEW what I needed (basically a T similar to the BN that AG has Big Grin) and I kept looking. I'm glad that your search has also paid off for you and I always encourage others to look around if they can to experience what other T's have to offer and if they can ultimately get what they want.

Best to you
TN
Jones, thanks for sharing your experience and thoughts around therapy. i think it's incredibly relevent.

quote:
And then she made time to very carefully and slowly go through the ways that she and I each saw the 'ghost of Manatee' as haunting my relationship with her. We talked about how to handle the related fears and anxieties that come up for me.


for me anyway, i think this is what therapy should be. from how you describe it, she gently and thoughtfully GUIDED you through this transference. by no means is it finished, but it was shamelessly recognized and discussed in a way to help you understand and hopefully begin to resolve it in a safe environment. i think that is wonderful!

from my experience, whether it is a positive or a negative transference, it is confusing and scary. i think more Ts need to ACTIVELY steer the therapy down this same road as your therapist. if therapists don't help us with this, then we get the message that it's something NOT okay to talk about, when in fact it is THE thing to talk about! Not acknowledging and not encouraging talking about it is the same thing as saying it's a shameful subject and is not okay to talk about. they are the professionals, and we tend to take their lead. kudos to you and your new T!

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