((TN))

I suspect under the anger is a flood of hurt, sadness and grief.

Let it out with your T. It won't damage him or kill him. He won't reject you. He won't blame you. He can't bring C back but he can help heal the agony you are in.

Hugs and love xx

(((TN)))

I am so sorry that you feel like your T gave you an ultimatum. Is there any chance that you misunderstood him? Is he really pulling away or does it just seem like that to you? It sounds so awful and unlike your T.

I don't have any good advice but I wanted to know if you knew what he actually said.

(((TN)))

TN I think you already have the answer it's just not easy to accept. So I'm going to show you something if you don't mind that you wrote some time back? Please read it and know that I only have good intent.

quote:

I do think a lot of this is based on my disorganized attachment and life in general showing and proving to me that getting attached brings only further pain. I attached to oldT and he abandoned me. I attached for a very long time and very strongly to C and he died. He was taken away from me. He did not chose to leave me but he is gone and never coming back.
So, I guess I'm feeling like I may as well get rid of anyone else who has meaning in my life.

You wrote it over a month ago.

On a subconscious level without meaning to, I think you are pushing your T away and looking for every reason why you think it is he that is trying to distance himself from you. Maybe that is the discussion you should be having with him.

TN I do exactly the same thing, so I know where you are coming from. Sometimes it just takes an outsider to point out what we already know but are trying so hard to avoid accepting.



B2W

(((TN))) I don't have any wisdom, but I'm so sorry for what you're going throug. Obviously, on some level you are very scared and pushing T away, but on another level, you desperately want him close, want him to stay. Are you talking to him about that side of things? I'm wondering if your T meant that if you keep backing away and pushing away that you will find yourself fleeing T completely, rather than any sort of threat of him leaving. I can't understand him going straight from you guys will work through it to threatening to disappear. We're here and not going anywhere. I'm so sorry for how much pain you are in.

TN, I was thinking of what he said in the way anon interpreted it as well-- an observation that you could "lose" the relationship by opting out of it, rather than a threat of him leaving.

This seems more consistent with the picture of your T that has emerged over time from what you've written of him here than the scarier version. . .

I am so sorry you are hurting like this, too. FWIW, I'd also be hopping mad if T was throwing platitudes and advice at me (like what you wrote in your second paragraph) while I was grieving the loss of someone close to me. I'm not sure there is a lot they can do to make death any better. Maybe he is being too optimistic about you finding that "relief and peace" in the near future and that is grating on you.

Er, hope I haven't said the wrong thing. I have mixed feelings about grief therapy.

Hugs to you, anyway.

You all have been very helpful and I appreciate the help and support. I will respond to each of you later as I'm on the run again right now... part of the problem is that I'm so busy at work at home that I don't even have time or energy to process the grief or try to figure out my relationship with T. So I just wanted to add more info here for now...

I know I'm pushing him away because if I allow him to mean anything to me then when I lose him, as I will eventually, I will drown in grief again at his loss. So I have basically cancelled him from my mind/heart. I just cannot bear another loss or even thinking about one. Today he asked me if I would say that I did not want to have C in my life ever and I said no, that I did get a lot from our relationship, knowledge, joy, self-esteem, safety, etc. But I would have done without the relationship with oldT who hurt me so badly and still to this day contaminates my therapy. I told T that I could not see any good that came from that relationship and he said that the good that came from that oldT relationship was.... HIM. He has no lacking of self-esteem LOL. I told him it was like I had to pay some penance to find him. So he said yeah but now you are trying to throw this away. Do you want to do to us what you did with C? I am sad because our last times together were not good, connecting ones and I have so many regrets. T said that he does not want that to happen to me again.

His main point is that because I reject him and everything he offers me I am hurting myself. He tells me I'm not alone and I tell him I AM alone. He tells me to keep him with me and I tell him I don't want to do that. He tells me it would help if I talk about my memories of C and I shut down. He tells me that he believes in me and I tell him no one will ever believe in me now that C is dead. The list goes on. And I know he wants to have our relationship mean something not because he NEEDS me in any way, but because he wants me to get better. he told me today that he gets angry when anyone messes with his work (that includes me). He says I AM his work and I'm hurting me.

So I guess my question to you all is...how do I get past this? How do I begin to walk towards him again? I'm feeling so lost. I told him that I don't know what to do. he said to take his feedback. Not sure what that means. Anyway, I do care very much for him and I know I am lucky to have him so I don't want to destroy us. What is my first step to reconnection?

When I was leaving he said to me "I'm playing golf tomorrow if it does not storm. So I said well have fun. He said I'm not telling you this to report my day to you but to let you know I can't be reached until after 2pm. So I am guessing that it means he expects me to call or that it's okay if I need to.

TN

TN I don't have any wise words to share but your T sounds wonderful. The longest journeys always start with a single step. Find one small thing that you can do tomorrow to put your relationship with T moving in the right direction. Can you call him? What about write him a short note? Can you do one small thing?



Thinking of you,

Jillann

Hi TN,

I'm sorry for what you're going through. I wonder if you answered your own question with the lines above:

" I do care very much for him and I know I am lucky to have him so I don't want to destroy us."

Have you told him that lately? It's a precious, important feeling.

Hey TN,

Our lives are in parallel at the moment.

I am doing the same with my T.

When I read your post earlier today, one thing hit out at me and that is - I can see the care that your T has for you. If he was a regular T he would have just carried on as normal to you, same boundaries, same treatment, unemotional and you would be perceiving no difference - but because he cares and is close to you, your pulling away from him is affecting him a lot. That is the care and the strength of your relationship.

TN - you need to be really gentle with yourself over the next couple of days and all next week. The termination anniversary for me is affecting me badly and i wasn't really aware of it - so it will be there for you too.

Thinking of you
SD

I don't have any other suggestions, but I am sending you support.

Thanks everyone. Truly. I think what has helped the most is that you believe that T truly cares about me and wants the best for me. It reminded me of something and I went back to my journal from two weeks ago. I made notes of our session but didn't spend a lot of time processing it because I am overwhelmed with work and preparing for house guests this weekend. But I think that was an important session where T really tried to let me know that he cared. I had told him he was triggering me by bringing up the inner child work and he said he was pushing me hard because he needs to keep me grounded to him and that I've been so despondent over losing C and not engaging with him at all.

He said "I am not going to lose you. You are too important to me. And if I have to push you in some way then I will push you and make you angry." Then he told me he does not want me to handle this alone and that he will protect me in the difficult work and that he will be there for me.

I think that today he took a calculated risk in how he handled the session. My T is very smart and also thoughtful in how he plans a session. I have discovered that things do not happen by "accident" with him. There is always a real reason for what he does. And today he pushed me, maybe into fear, maybe to really face and look at what I am doing. Maybe he felt that to help me he needed to do something drastic to shake things up and get me out of despondency so I could engage with him again.

I also think that this could backfire and I could be so upset that I walk out and walk away from him and therapy. That he could lose a client that I know he invested A LOT into. But he was willing to take that risk to save US. To get the relationship back on track and he felt that he had a good shot at having it work the way he wanted it to because he KNOWS me and knows who I am. I think the fact that he did take that risk shows me how much this all means to him.

Wow did I just write all of that??

His short email to me this morning said "we will get through this difficult time and we will be much stronger".

That does not sound like a T who hates me and wants me to go away, does it?

Thanks
TN

TN that sounds like a T who LOVES you so much and is willing to do whatever it takes within professional boundaries to help you. Remember all the bad T's out there - yours is a gem! Don't let him go, you deserve him and all the love and care he has to give you.

Your faith in him is well founded, TN. Just hold on to that.

GE... you are making me all teary now. I hope you are right and so am I. Maybe I will tell him about what I have come to realize. He is a gem and I have always known that. That is why the thought of losing him in any way terrifies me.

Thanks
TN

i know TN, i feel exactly the same way about my T. he is a superb T and a wonderful person and i'd be devastated if i lost him

((((((TN)))))

Sometimes we have to be stern and firm with those we love and care about because we can't bear to see them hurting and fear we might lose them or let them go down an unhelpful path if we don't. To me it seems your T is doing just that for you. I also now that for me I am always ready to be the first to run away in a relationship, just in case I get hurt again by abandonment....my DH and T both are proving that this is not necessary if you are with people who trust and care about me, but the default button is always ready.

TN what I think you can try to do is to take a big breath and try to trust your T - think of all the times he has been solidly there for you and override that default that says you are automatically going to get hurt again. Tell him it's hard but you want to trust him and simply be up front with how it feels for you and your fears of losing him. He will understand because the dear man I think already knows you so well

Hugs,

starfishy

Risk is exactly what came into my mind when I read your post for the first time. Knowing when it's appropriate and okay to offer up challenge is a big skill. I have to admit, I wasn't sure about his response when I read it.

I think that has a lot to do with my own stuff though. I need to feel as if I have the majority of the control and absolutely freak out if I encounter anything that I might perceive as a critical parental response. You are a better judge of what is right for you and your relationship with T.

I too would not be very responsive to being told how to manage my grief. Personally I think grief happens on its own timescale.

quote:

His main point is that because I reject him and everything he offers me I am hurting myself.

That's true - it's a fine line. Rejecting him is hurting you, certainly. Rejecting his suggestions on the other hand - I'm not so sure that's as damaging. If what he's suggesting doesn't resonate for you right now, then personally I don't think it's unreasonable not to want to do them. I wonder if there is a way you can accept him as a constant, close, supportive presence in your life and work together to figure out how you're going to work together in these very changed circumstances while you try to heal enough to continue the work you're doing together.

(((TN)))

Just wanted to send positive thoughts your way. I hear your sense of hopelessness. Your T is definitely telling you he is here for you - and he's showing you. I've been going through a rough patch with my T and I know how hard it is.

IMO, when we let go of the past, it helps a lot if the present has a solid foundation. Do you think it would help in terms of grieving C to know that T will really be there for you? As things have changed with my T this past month, I've been doing these crazy dances with him trying to get reassurance from him in a backwards kind of way without asking directly. He didn't always get it which would cause me to spiral out of control. I've been trying to be more direct. It's not easy.

I have to take a leap of faith when it comes to trusting because I can't actually feel it or see it. The old stuff that's there, that I'm alone, that he is not tuned into me, that he doesn't hear me or get me or is trying to hurt me, is easy to lean back on. It's like an old friend. It takes a conscious choice to decide to trust T without my usual parameters to guide me. It's incredibly scary for me.

I can't tell you how much fear I've had to feel. I tried to avoid feeling that fear by falling back on the old stuff. But once I acknowledged how incredibly scared I am, the fear lost some of its power and intensity. Two steps forward, one step back. That's how it usually goes. As long as there is a net gain and I see that net gain there with you.

I wanted to acknowledge all those who offered such kind support...

incognito... it was not so much what he said that was scary but his tone and demeanor. He wanted to make a point and I think he succeeded.

B2W... I did not mind at all that you quoted me. It's a very valid point. My attachment style is very disorganized and that push pull drives me crazy at times. It is definitely more pronounced during times of great upheaval, like having C die. But I do know (in my saner moments) that by denying the relationship with my T I also lose the opportunity to experience a wonderful relationship with a great human being. And so, like he says, I have to make that choice.

Hi Anon... not really sure what T meant. I really don't think he would terminate me but then I didn't think oldT would either.... But I do think it means I lose the "relationship" which is so important to therapy. Thank you for your kind words.

hi hic... I think I've been so angry with him because when he tells me stuff to get over the grief I feel like he is invalidating it and I push him away. But that is a different push that the feelings that I just don't ever want to be close to another person. I think it's possible to disagree with his suggestions while not pushing HIM away and remaining engaged in the therapy.

Hi Monte... yeah cowering and fearing for my life pretty much describes how I was feeling in my session yesterday. My T can be very formidable when he wants to be. I'm glad I'm not the only one who experiences this (though I'm sorry you do). I also agree that I need him to read my mind and be very nurturing during these times. That does not happen. I know he understands what I'm going through (I'm sure I'm not the first patient to have a death to deal with) and I agree that he wants me to find my own voice again and to re-engage with him.
And... thanks for reminding me that he cares. It gives me the courage to take a step towards him again.

Hi Jillann... thank you for your words and encouragement. I think I will take a small step today and call him and tell him some of what I'm thinking about thanks to all of you.

Hey Jones... nice to see you. Hope you are okay. I do need to tell him this more often. He has earned it. I'm not an easy patient.

Hi SD... yeah this anniversary time really does spook me and trigger me too. You make a very good point about his care and that is what got me to thinking and going back to that journal entry. I struggle to take in the good stuff. Thanks.

BLT... thanks for your support. I will try hard to hold onto my faith in T.

Hi starfishy... so nice to see you! I do think that T was just being a good parent and sometimes that means being stern and firm. I am going to make an effort to override the fears and just communicate it more to T. I think I do know that he knows me well (and if I don't he reminds me enough LOL). Thanks for being here.

Hi Mallard... welcome to the Board. I don't think we have fomally met. Thank you for your support here. I too need to be in control all the time. It's an ongoing issue but it causes me problems in certain areas. T says I need to let go of it a bit. I also think there are two issues here... one is managing my grief and I'm sure he would be willing to work with me on that and listen to what I need. The other issue is my pushing HIM away and not engaging and not allowing him to help me. I think this part is what angers him because I'm hurting me.

Hi Liese...thanks for the postiive thoughts. I need them. You are correct about the solid foundation necessary to support letting the past go. We talked about trust and that old challenge of falling backwards and trusting that the other person will be there to prevent you falling. THAT is true trust. Not sure if I'm there yet.

I'll keep you all posted on what happens.

TN

Nice to meet you too, True North.

TN, If you could share at least one line from some of your recent posts it will let your T. know that you do care, you don't want to push him away. Your T. sounds wonderful. I hope you find the courage to reconnect in even the tiniest of ways right now.

Hi RM... I do plan to share part of my posts on this thread with him on Monday. Thank you. Thanks for commenting on my thread.

Draggers sweetie, you are never late to a thread and always appreciated.

Well, I called and left a message for T at 2:30 yesterday and he called me back at 4:30 and we spoke for about six minutes. But it was an important six minutes. I first asked him if what he wrote in my email was true that he believed we would get through this difficult time (me losing C) and come out stronger than ever. He said of course it is or I would never have written it. So then I told him I wanted to thank him for being such a good parent in Thursday's session. He seemed surprised I said that and I think he was a bit wary of why I had called in the first place. And because I was nervous I was a bit rambly but I explained that I had a breakthrough and that I felt he took a calculated risk the other day when he pushed me like that. I told him I could have gotten really angry or pissed at him and just walked away from therapy and him. But I didn't because I finally realized even though that was difficult for him ... he did it for me and for US because of how much he cares about me. He said he was very happy I understood it that way. He was very pleased to hear me say these things to him. He said it was not as big a risk as I thought and I told him that is because he really knows me so well. I also told him that when I understood it all I felt so cared about and I knew I would be safe with him. He just kept saying that I made him very happy (and he sounded excited) and again I thanked him for being my good parent and said we can talk more when I see him on Monday. He wished me a good weekend and told me to have fun with my guests and that I earned a good time.

Then we hung up. I was very emotional and had to sit for a bit to just take it all in. I was feeling proud of myself that I could make enough space between my initial feelings and the impression I got in session and what I know to be true about my T and about our relationship and I realized how much he cares for me and how important and I am to him. It was such a good feeling.

I am really looking forward to seeing him on Monday because I feel like I haven't seen him for a long time. I don't know how I am going to restrain myself from giving him a big hug.

I really think my journaling and then writing and reading your responses on this thread was the key to understanding and changing my feelings and finding the good stuff in my relationship with T.

TN

Thanks so much Draggers for saying that.

You know, Monday is the 3rd Anniversary of that whole terrible termination and ER visit with oldT but I think now it will be okay because I will be with T and we have some good stuff to talk about.


TN

(((TN))) It gave me warm fuzzies to hear about your conversation with your T. He certainly cares about you very much.

Anon thank you for your support in the midst of your own struggles.

Sending
TN

(((TN)))

I've been following, but have had not much to add. Thinking of you though.

((TN)) that's brilliant and heartwarming to read. So glad for you and completely understand you wanting to give him a huge hug - he knows what he's doing AND you mean a lot to him xx

Thanks, Cat. Hugs to you

TN

TN, I am so happy for you! You did great sharing with your T.

Monte, you made me smile!

thanks RM. It felt good.

I had a very good session today but no time right now to write about it. I hope to have time later tonight.

TN