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I irishMember
I’ve been really hurt here. Really hurt. A moderator recently wrote a comment asking that people direct their questions to Shrinklady about why I was banned from the community. The reason that hurt so much is that I never was even given the dignity of an explanation as to why I was banned from here. Just thrown out like a bag of garbage. No none thinks twice after it’s been bagged-they just want it out of their house.

I had originally asked Shrinklady to suspend my account of several years when things were triggering me too much here. I decided to see if I wanted to stick around by avoiding triggering subjects by limiting my contributions to discussions about psychology. Attachment Girl had previously asked me to be a moderator of the forum about Psychology and told me she hoped that I kept posting interesting and informative articles (some of which ended up in her blog content). I didn’t feel I was in a place to moderate anything but still contributed in my own way.

Next thing I knew, I was involved in some conflict and my account was suspended without warning, with only a note: “it’s complicated”. That was when Jane had a psychotic or delusional episode. That was a tragedy for everyone involved. Including Jane. I am positive I made some mistakes too, but at least if you know what your mistakes are, you have to opportunity to apologize and/or make things right if need be.

Being hurt about this—that’s just part of life, but I am outraged at how some think its ok to treat others like this—especially on a mental health support community. What if I was suicidal, and being deemed not worthy of being in a community of peers was the last straw that set me over the edge?

I had emailed Shrinklady at the Editors at Myshrink address to tell her I’d like to reinstate my account. I’m not sure if those emails are screened by others instead of going directly to her, but they were ignored. So when I was hospitalized and laid up for weeks, and after hearing no response from her, I created a temporary account called ‘Guest’ so that I could PM her about reinstating my account. I figured it would be ok to post as a guest until I heard back from her. After being repeatedly ignored, I could only conclude no one cared about whether or not I was a member, so I came back to the community I cared about.

I had been a member for a few months and all of the sudden, I was banned again when there was conflict between some members. Did I say/do something wrong? If I said/did something wrong, why were the other members that said/did wrong things allowed to keep their memberships? It is perplexing. I am no better or worse than anyone here. I have my times of craziness too. I can own them if given the opportunity to. And to be clear, any conflict I’ve been involved in was on the open forum. I had NEVER sent anyone harassing or abusive PMs. Yet, I know others here who have done that-yet, they still post here. And that’s ok, everyone is entitled (as a human being) to some mistakes, but why in the world is it ok to single me out?

No, I was told I was banned because my intentions cannot be trusted because I created new accounts. Huh? Anytime the account was suspended, a message went to my inbox “if you have any questions about your [suspension], contact Shrinklady. The reason I created the accounts in the first place was to contact Shrinklady. She has never answered one of my PMs. Not even once. But trust works both ways. How can people be expected to trust her if she makes decisions based on ___?

So what would be the right thing to do in this situation? Put yourself in my shoes, please, and tell me what you would have done? I suppose never coming back here would have been the ‘right’ thing to do. But that’s the source of confusion in the first place. This whole experience was like a merry-go-round that I could not get off of. And if I didn’t care, I could never come to this website again. But unfortunately, as much as I’ve tried to talk myself into not caring, that’s not the case. Maybe I am incapable of doing the right thing in that type of environment.

I’m not as graceful as others here, I know that. And I am not good with words, but it seems this has been a forum elephant that needs to go away. I don’t know how else to make it disappear but to make myself heard. Shrinklady said she has no time/resources to deal with it, so maybe it can be dealt with by alternative means. Not dealing with things can be just as, or more harmful, than dealing with the situation in the first place. I was not some troll who deserved to be ridiculed and ostracized from the community.

Thanks to anyone listening. I miss you guys.
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starlightstarlightMember
Hi,
I wrote to ShrinkLady asking why you had been banned. I received a reply from TrueNorth that it was because you had been banned previously. She also replied that ShrinkLady would be posting an announcement explaining the situation. I am still waiting for that to happen.
I don't even know what you have said wrong and what your previous name was, but I was concerned that someone is banned without any explanation or discussion with other members.
We all have some many different problems and sensitivities that I think it is really important that everything is out in the open and people do not need to worry about what is happening behind their backs.
I do know whether I am for or against you being banned, because i don't know what you did wrong!
I irishMember
Starlight,

Yes, I was banned previously. I should not have created a new account but did not really have other choices, i.e. trying to work things out, as I was never given the opportunity to do so. My other choice would have been to accept not coming here and leave it as that.

However, that was one of my main points. I was never given an explanation as to why I was banned except "it's complicated". Starlight, if you don't know the history here, there were some really difficult times/things going on here due to someone's mental health problems at the time. It was really a tragedy for everyone.

I don't know what I did either. No one told me-you have done xy and z and others have a problem with it. Even so, i am certain i have done no worse than anyone else here. I don't look at it as being for/against. As you said, we all have problems and sensitivities. Shrinklady is not involved with the day-to-day operations here, so who's to judge?

Thanks for your opinion,
Irish
heldincompassionheldincompassionMember
quote:
I’m not as graceful as others here, I know that. And I am not good with words, but it seems this has been a forum elephant that needs to go away. . . I was not some troll who deserved to be ridiculed and ostracized from the community.


Here, here to the last sentence. Smiler You are a valuable contributor and a good friend to many. Certainly sufficiently graceful, lol, and you express yourself very intelligently. Speaking personally, there have been several times since I joined here where you have offered insights into my therapy and struggles that have proven very useful.

Anyway, I do feel like your exile is something of an elephant in the room around here as well. I know enough about the previous situation to know that it *was* complicated and there were probably several of us who did not act as wisely as we wish we had in retrospect. I have a regret or two myself.

I don't know why you were banned other than the duplicate account thing, though, and I've worried that maybe there was some unintentional scapegoating going on. (There are problems! Ban someone!) I mean, it could have happened like that. I wish things had been more clear.

I hope things get straightened out somehow. I'm biased towards openness myself which is why I'm speaking so frankly here. Sometimes open forum is just better than pm for everyone's health.
jonesjonesMember
I believe that one of the issues involved was probably that you had posted a vilifying message about one of the Psychcafe moderators on another forum. I was a moderator on the other forum and once I became concerned about your posting there and here I asked to cross-check the IP address and confirmed that it was you (I had much earlier asked you privately in the hope of sorting it out, but you denied it). So I passed that information on (the message had already been seen when you posted it) and it may have had something to do with the decision to ban you.

I assume the message concerned came out of your genuine perceptions at the time, and who knows, I guess there was already upset and hypervigilance involved. But moderators here are people too with their own histories, fears, and hurts and everyone needs a chance to feel safe. Perhaps you can imagine what it would be like to know that someone from your community had written something horrible about you 'out there', but that you didn't know who had done it. I consider that it would make every interaction feel unsafe. Perhaps you didn't intend this, but I believe that your decision to post that and then walk away from it had a lot to do with cultivating jumpiness here.

Maybe this helps to explain.

Jones

PS it's late where I am so I won't be responding to anything else here for some hours.


edited at request of poster
Last edited by True North
I irishMember
(((Passion)))

I so wanted to respond to your recent posts!!

Our insights come from our different world views....and although many do not agree, the diversity of opinion contributes so much. I have always said that-even to people with whom i do not agree. That's one reason this is a special place. If we are all too alike-then what??

Yes, the previous situation was complicated. Many were involved. I think many have regrets; you are not the only one, by far. I felt terrible for everyone...

I, too, wish that things were more clear.
I irishMember
Jones,

I admit to posting a one or two sentence message/comment about the past moderation here on another forum. I saw it was deleted immediately. I had also linked that forum to others here, letting others know i was a member.

The context that you may have left out is-i tried to bring up the moderation issues respectfully on the open forum. It was to the point that moderating meant (unintentionally) bullying others, in my perception (and i don't mean the trolls). I was ignored. However, I wish i had handled that differently. And would have in retrospect.

My point was that previous moderation was escalating conflict rather than de-escalating it. It was nothing personal about anyone here. It was my opinion that anyone trusted with the task of judging others via moderation should be fair, balanced, and should be a person who can exercise objective, good judgement. I still stand by that. I was never heard.

I also never felt safe with you addressing things via PM, and honestly-your post to me freaked me out. Not because it was you, but because of my issues. If you were a moderator..maybe. Another thing that was happening at the time-was that I was being accused of posting mean things on another's blog/the blog of a moderator. I never, ever did that.

I have heard that nasty, mean things were said of me via PMs. And have seen many about others since then. Those people were not banned. It was worse, imo, to vilify me via the PMs in comparison with the one or two sentence comment i posted on another forum. So that makes me so bad and terrible and a monster? Yes, it was not right. I do regret it. But i did try to work it out on the OF. I don't think people feel safe doing things that way. unfortunately, discussing things in the open is the only way I feel safe, and the only way i had/have a voice. People let some say whatever they want about others, but then other people are vilified for doing the same. Objectively, everyone here is equal. People should not be banned according to who are friends/not friends.

If we were all treated the same, others would be banned as I was. I do understand that people were upset with me. The same as i was about others. But my comment on that forum was nowhere near as terrible as some of the things said via PMs. Another regret was not reporting PMs. I hadn't done that, thinking everything would work out naturally. I was wrong.

Thanks for commenting.
catalystcatalystMember
The situation caused by the particular member who had the episode was far reaching, skewed perceptions, caused legitimate threats to my life (not kidding at all), and was wildly out of control - anything anyone did was wrong. I know I was personally attacked, vilified, and completely misrepresented due to that person's breakdown. Thankfully, once things were resolved I had an opportunity to receive and give sincere apologies because of the twisting that had been played on all sides due to the member's psychotic break.

I was out on disability and mostly neglected to reply to anything, nor defend myself out of extreme apathy.

That being said, I'm sorry that things in the end did not go well for you. Due to the high volume of people involved simultaneously, I know many people were mistreated, misunderstood, and though to have intentions that did not exist. So I do understand when you say you felt terrible for everyone. Even though you make/made significant contributions to the board, I think once someone is banned they are banned. And I'm saddened by the genuine expression you have of confusion, hurt, and being unsure what to do. I don't know what to say, or what I would do either.

This board is very different than any I've been a part of and it can be extremely frustrating at times. Land mines and eggshells (we all have them)... and I'm no ballerina!

I hope Shrinklady can offer more of an explanation. She has replied to me occasionally when I've written her, but many times not. So, I'm not entirely sure if it's personal.
Attachment GirlAttachment GirlAdmin
Ok I'm done sitting by while this happens, Irish, you have been coming after me and my moderating for a very long time. I have been attacked both on Open Forum and in private to all the moderators by you. My character has been impugned by you multiple times. You want things in the open? You gaslighted me as Irishgirl through the whole problem with TAS by on the surface behaving in an oh so sweet manner with barbs directed at me in every turn. Its how I recognized who you were. (One of many people who recognized you, I might add).

I worked very hard when I was moderator to check my motivations and deal as fairly as possible with people. I was not perfect because I am human, but when I recognized I screwed up, I apologized on open forum. Some of mine to you when unrecognized because you decided they were not sincere.

I had been literally gone for two months without one post after stepping down when you posted a provocative post on my goodbye thread strongly implying that I had something to hide. Dealing with that post is what set off the whole issue which turned into a much bigger mess, admittedly due to someone else's mental health problems. During that time you posted several more attacks on me that were fairly quickly removed by a moderator due to their nature.

You feel hurt? You have made a place that I have loved and cherished for a long time feel so unsafe for me that I had to leave. I am the moderator that you villified in a "few" lines which I reproduce below. I have them because I was so badly triggered I had to make an emergency call to my therapist and had emailed him the quote. I was truly excited and proud and scared to be taking the risk of starting my own blog, only to have this appear on another forum where a friend had linked to my own blog. I was totally blind-sided and felt very unsafe for a very long time. And btw, this post was up for over 24 hours before being deleted by the owner of the forum.

quote:
Just a warning for those who might have a background that includes trauma and dissociation but who might be considering using the forum linked in that blog: http://psychcafe.ca/eve/

I used to participate in that forum until I discovered the moderator has strong overt narcissistic traits and regularly acts out on the forum as the only moderator. That forum tends to attract therapy patients who have borderline tendencies, including myself. It's not apparent at first but after being in depth therapy for 3 years now, it gradually became obvious. It is symbolistic of the narcissistic mother with the type of instrusiveness that permeates boundaries and the wounded children who often end up borderline, who might also have repetition compulsions to contend with.

Others may view this differently, but that it how I see it after spending a number of hours participating there. It is one thing to act out on a forum as a participant, another for the moderator to do so. The scenerio can be harmful to some with trauma backgrounds. I am disappointed the psychiatrist-owner of that forum does not have a clue what is going on there.

I hope Attachment Girl learns about healthy boundaries through writing on her blog. You have Sifter's blessings but also my warning.


I hope you also get answers from Shrinklady, but if you continue as a member here it will never feel safe for me again. Which is, I hasten to add, my problem and my choice as to whether I post here. But as for any bafflement about why you were banned? Not really.

I do not wish to get into an argument about what happened but did wish to defend my view of events.

I kept trying to back away from you and disengage as I also find you triggering, as you have said you feel about me on a number of occasions, but you are still posting criticisms of me.

AG

edited at request of poster
Last edited by True North
I irishMember
(((Liese)))

Thank you for your comment. I, too, hope things can be worked out. I would like to contribute but also receive support. Things have been rough. Frowner

I still have been reading your posts. I think it's really sweet how you've been helping RT and others though issues. I'm sure everyone here values your contributions--immensely. You are inspiring.

Hugs Hug two
I irishMember
Catalyst,

I am so sorry things were that horrible. Frowner

It seemed like a lose-lose situation all around. But I may have been skewed by the fact that I've been around psychotic people all my life, so I perceived that Jane did not have control over her situation. One issue was that I looked at Jane's posts from over the years-i've never, ever found even one that could be remotely implied as being disrepectful to another person. They were all empathetic and responsive and warm and even diplomatic. I know this does not help you or anyone, but I believe it's relevant to the situation.

I truly didn't know all the distress it has caused you. I was not aware you were vilified and attacked as well. I am so glad things resolved for you and anyone else.

I've always valued your posts--even though we've disagreed at times, we were always able to discuss it respectfully. I seriously did not know what to apologize for as I was out of the loop. I have been unaware of the widespread damage. It is so sad. I do feel terrible for everyone and anyone.
yakusokuyakusokuMember
I missed all the precipitating events, most likely being in a sensitive place when they happened. I PMed someone requesting that SL post something publicly (even if vaguely) on the (recent) banning, for the sake of disclosure and so those here who might not be privy to details could feel safe. I know that message was passed along right away, but SL has probably been too busy.

I also got caught up in the side events, and there were attempts to drag me into it, which I was thankfully somehow spared. I know it was hugely scary for all involved and it was scary for me to witness/hear about what friends here were experiencing. BECAUSE of that experience, knowing someone who had been previously banned was coming back under another name without any disclosure whatsoever kind of scares me. And it's not that I have anything personally against anyone, because, like I said, I missed out on the whole thing (most likely due to my issues). However, it does make me feel incredibly unsafe to have someone seemingly pretending to be a new member when they're not. I realize that's always a possibility due to the anonymity of the internet, but it freaks me out! It's not that I don't understand why someone might feel the need to do it, but it's not something I could ever do myself and...I guess there are all sorts of triggers I get with feeling manipulated, which are my own stuff.

Anyway, I also hope SL can address all this. It's been really hard for me to feel safe here, and I have a lot of stuff I've needed support with in my life recently that I don't feel safe reaching out for anymore. A lot of that is my own stuff, but some of it is just not objectively knowing whether there are safe people on the other end, having divulged myself to a few people that ended up being really unsafe. There are, of course, some people I've gotten to know more deeply on here that I do trust, but having people posting under guises doesn't help my overall sense of safety here.

This isn't meant as an insult at anyone. I also prefer to do things out in the open, not via PM, and have been criticized for that myself. So, I get that part. I'm just being honest about how it makes me feel. I can understand why mystery bannings make people feel unsafe here. But, I do want to include, from another perspective, how I feel about what seems like pretense. Again, I want to be clear that a lot of this is my own issues and my own experiences. I'm scared I'll stir up some sort of crap-storm on myself here or be accused of "siding" with someone. However, those who know me more personally know that I have already expressed how much this was freaking me out...though I had been waiting for it to be "officially" addressed before commenting.

I'm not perfect. I've made (human) mistakes and hurt people, in my life and here too. I'm sorry for that. I hope nobody is hurt or offended by what I posted here, which is just me being scared by the situation.

(((hugs))) to any others who are feeling hurt and scared.
I irishMember
AG,

You are right-I did have a problem with your moderation. It is/never was you, personally. It was that it seemed (to me) abusive at times. Perhaps as Jones mentioned, it was my hypervigilence. It was the moderation style-not you as a person-as a human being. Understanding we all have our flaws, I did not think it was ok to have moderation by someone who does not have their emotions in check. I did try to bring this up in the OF numerous times but was ignored.

You do have a very vocal and dominant personality, regardless. It has been difficult to try to address this in times of disagreement-I have not done a good job in trying to do so. But it does feel powerless when other people close your account, close threads, and ban you. You have no voice...you've never had to contend with that, have you?

I do have to disagree about what you said about being attacked, vilified, for a very long time. I've valued your posts lately. I just had a problem with your moderation style because i feel it was hurting people.

But you are misinterpreting my relation to TAS. It had nothing to do with you. I was writing to TAS and only to TAS. No, there were no barbs against you. I was trying to be as supportive as possible to everyone. I even thought I was being supportive to you in saying you are ok with saying your opinion.

I have felt nothing but acceptance for you lately. The only issue I had was the way you were moderating. And i wasn't the only one. The threads of/related to TAS had nothing to do with you (why are you making it about you?). There were no barbs against you. You said you were upset that I told TAS that she was lovely, and to keep being her true self.

These were only my true feelings about TAS. I was delighted to talk to her and support her. But it had nothing to do with you. I am just mesmerized about people blossoming in therapy. People who closed themselves off for so long. It's invigorating and inspiring.

I never gaslighted anyone. Anyone who asked was told my former posting names. I did not disguise myself as i've talked about the same things i did before. I did feel, however, that i made some progress as to my behavior. I thought i'd try to support everyone, whether i agreed or not. Maybe that is what you are confusing with other things?

No, i never thought you had something to hide. I just know you like to deal with things in the private rather than openly. As some others do. But yeah, it was hard for me to accept as i know others were upset we didn't know you were forum administrator after you told us you 'stepped down'.

I cannot, however, conceptualize attacks on you. I also do not think I am responsible for your feeling unsafe here. There were multiple etiologies to the problems here; blaming me seems way out of line. However, I am sorry if I contributed to your hurt in any way.
I irishMember
Anon,

Thanks for your comments. I am very sorry if i scared you in anyway with my accounts. I wish i knew what else to do. I've been powerless, not allowed to speak. That does not make it right. I've known how it feels to be misled on this forum.

I really appreciate the opportunity--from all-to talk about this. So sorry if i've upset anyone. I've felt like that for a very long time.

Don't know what else to say...
I irishMember
quote:
I am just mesmerized about people blossoming in therapy.

More like obsessed! And not in a healthy way either.

It would be best if you took your passive aggressive, manipulating, and provocative need to target a member in here elsewhere



Muff, would you like, then, to put yourself on the 'stand' so that everyone could evaluate and judge you? What mistakes have you made?

I don't see anything less passive agressive and manipulative than being direct on the OF. How about we all can have a voice and express our feelings, rather than being relegated to passive agressive behavior?

If you want to talk to me about my unhealthy, obsessive behavior, I'd be willing to listen. Every day is a learning experience for me-how about you? I wonder what I said to upset you. Care to elaborate? I am the only one 'accused' her; being judged...so i hope you feel free to accuse or express yourself how you see fit.
I irishMember
Well Muff,
It's already been established that I am a HORRIBLE person, much worse than anyone else here. So much worse, in fact, that I am not permitted to participate here. So go ahead-bring it on.

What is less passive aggressive than inviting the entire forum to crucify me directly? I'm not sure what I said to you thats pushed a button but am sorry if i did something that upset you. The last i recall, you said narcissists are them and the rest of us are 'us', and i remember saying this is not the case (imo). We are not that much different...both the result from genetics and adverse situations..no one chose to be a 'narcissist'...

I'm here to talk about it if you choose. Say what you will...
jonesjonesMember
Hi Irish,

I would have an easier time taking what you are saying on face value if you had not lied to me multiple times by PM, and misrepresented yourself here. I don't like the minimising or the justifications. You did not write 'one or two sentences' about AG that were immediately deleted; beyond the first paragraphs you also stuck around to add further comments about 'bullying' and 'abuse'.

Yes, you are being heard - I have heard you forward those 'perceptions' or 'opinions' many times over a few years. I suspect you want more than to be heard. You probably want your perceptions and opinions confirmed and acted on by someone in authority. It troubles me that your bid to return to the community has at its core those same accusations. If you can't see the accusation in your charges of bullying and abuse, if you don't see that you have attacked, then perhaps, at best, you have a blind spot.

Moderation IS difficult. You know that; you turned it down yourself. Everyone here has psychological baggage of considerable degree. Moderation, with baggage, of a community of people with baggage, is extremely tough. If you do it your weak spots are going to show, sooner or later. Things are going to go wrong. But our moderators need the same care and consideration that everyone else here does. They need to be taken with the same good faith that everyone else gets. It may be that it is not something that the vast majority could do at all, let alone for any length of time. When someone does it, I believe their intention to service should be recognised. That is not the same as a free pass. Just basic consideration.

Jones
jonesjonesMember
Irish,

I have never been a moderator here and didn't make the decision to ban you. I can't and don't speak about that decision. But what I have seen and experienced myself with other forums is that moderation becomes impossible if one is constantly subject to those kinds of attack or the likelihood of them. So maybe the issue is not about degree, but about kind, and about the practicalities of what it takes to moderate.

Also, at some level, perhaps it comes down to - either you are with the programme or not. If you have major philosophical objections to the way a place is run, you are better off elsewhere. If you have those objections AND you can't put them aside BUT you want to stick around, you may find the incompatibility erupts anyway.
kashleykashleyMember
I have managed to stay out of this whole saga, luckily enough, and I don't want to get caught in the middle of this. But I have a couple of comments.

First, what you've said about AG does not imply a problem simply with her moderation, it implies your disapproval of her as a person (and of other forum members here). Even if you possibly "intended" for it to only be directed towards her moderating style, you admittedly did a very poor job of parsing that out.

Secondly, you have now made your purpose here very clear.

quote:
What is less passive aggressive than inviting the entire forum to crucify me directly?


You came here to allow yourself to be crucified, to paint yourself as the victim in a way that allows others to feel sorry for you. The strategy doesn't work as well when you spell out what you're doing.

Irish (or whatever name you'd prefer), with how clearly you've stated your disapproval of this forum, I don't understand why you're still here. You want people to crucify you, well you've gotten your wish. Surely you don't expect them to now welcome you back with open arms? Or do you now feel you can leave on your own terms? You've had your say, many times over.

As I've said, I've stayed out of all of this, but with everything that has been happening recently, plus my own fragile emotional state, I'm starting to feel unsafe here as well. This place had been such a haven for me for more than 3 years now, as it has been for so many others. So my recent thoughts on leaving have come with a lot of uncertainty and a bit of resentment, as well. What happened that we can't keep this place safe enough to serve its original purpose - to support each other in our therapeutic journeys?

So, maybe I've just set myself up to be crucified as well, but I've about had it. I'm terrified at saying all of this..I don't care anymore.
I irishMember
quote:
You came here to allow yourself to be crucified, to paint yourself as the victim in a way that allows others to feel sorry for you. The strategy doesn't work as well when you spell out what you're doing.


Actually-I came here to get some answers and closure. HOw would you respond to being accused of being passive aggressive? I am trying to be as direct as possible and have so in the past. It does not seem welcome here.

And the answer is-banning me was more personal than anything. I get it now.

Thanks and i hope you feel better soon.
I irishMember
quote:
Also, at some level, perhaps it comes down to - either you are with the programme or not. If you have major philosophical objections to the way a place is run, you are better off elsewhere. If you have those objections AND you can't put them aside BUT you want to stick around, you may find the incompatibility erupts anyway.


Jones that makes a lot of sense....
starlightstarlightMember
Hi Everyone,

I am absolutly stunned reading this thread. I have been reading here for 4 years and a member for 2 years and yet I don't know about half of these incidents.

How is this right? Are all members equal or are some more important than others?

I feel very strongly that if anyone is being banned it should be done on open forum for everyone to understand and not in secret amongst a few "special" members.

I had noticed that UV had disappeared, but did not know she was banned. When she reappeared as XOXO she stated who she was on open forum.

I don't know who is right or wrong here, but it is very scary to be involved in a forum where a member disappears and then to find out later they were banned.

What next will I be banned if someone does not like what I say?

If there is a clear reason for someone to be banned, why is it not announced on open forum for all to know, this would avoid all the anxiety and mistrust that has gone on here.
This is surely more important if the dispute involves the words or actions of a Moderator!

There seems to be 2 distinct groups here, those that support Irish and those that support AG, I don't know who is right, but the fact that both have supporters suggests that the issue is not so clear cut.

I feel very sad about this all, I have gained so much knowledge here as I have started my therapy journey, but it these ruptures continue they are very unsettleing and I feel this forum will end up causing me more harn than good.

Surely there is a place here for all of us. it is not possible to like everyone, but can't we toterate differences of opinion in a civilized way.

Hugs to all

I irishMember
quote:
i DID inquire, and i'm STILL waiting for a response...


ClosedDoors, I think you have your answer right here in the thread.

That's just it. My membership was banned based on what I said on that other forum. If everyone here were accountable for their words, barely anyone would be left as a member here. Surely that is NOT the worst I've heard coming from a member of this forum. Not even close. I can see now i was banned for personal reasons. That was my original compliant about the forum.

I don't think it would sound much different if others put their words up here to be judged. What else can you do? How would you feel if you were banned and never, ever given a reason? At least now I have one.

Kashley, I posted here for the same reasons everyone else does/did. It has been a great place and I appreciated much of the support here. I wasn't the only one upset by the moderation. I feel it caused more problems than any of the conflict itself it was meant to quell. Yes, I complained about it--and it was changed. I've especially wanted to come back here when that changed. It's probably too late now but at least i have some closure. Thanks.
I irishMember
Starlight, your last post really summed up what some others have said to me. Thank you.

quote:
I feel very sad about this all, I have gained so much knowledge here as I have started my therapy journey, but it these ruptures continue they are very unsettleing and I feel this forum will end up causing me more harn than good.

Surely there is a place here for all of us. it is not possible to like everyone, but can't we toterate differences of opinion in a civilized way.


I think we can. And if i can do it-which i really tried hard to do most recently-surely everyone else can!
I irishMember
quote:
Originally posted by muff:
quote:
"Close some doors not because of pride, incapacity or arrogance, but simply because they no longer lead somewhere." Paolo Coelho


That about says it all in a nutshell.

Closing this one.


That is a useful quote, i agree. Glad you have some closure too. I am not sure what i did to upset you, but am sorry for everyone here. You too.
I irishMember
quote:
I don't like the minimising or the justifications. You did not write 'one or two sentences' about AG that were immediately deleted; beyond the first paragraphs you also stuck around to add further comments about 'bullying' and 'abuse


Yes, AG refreshed my memory. I remembered it as an unsignificant comment by me. Now i see it was a longer comment. I did feel bullied back then. And totally unheard. And now remember exactly how i felt when i wrote that comment...

quote:
You probably want your perceptions and opinions confirmed and acted on by someone in authority.


No, just some answers and maybe some closure. As much as it hurts putting myself out there, at least now I see the reason i was banned, as well as knowing what i did wrong over the years. It has been really damaging to me, all the behind the scenes stuff. as much as some don't agree with me starting this thread-and i really get that-i did not know what else to do. Having answers is better than being left wondering. It seems others wanted answers too-the same answers that few had access too.
I irishMember
It has been helpful to have a voice. Thank you. I can only imagine the difference if this conversation was allowed to happen a long time ago.

Everyone knows by now that i had problems with moderation in the past. It's not as difficult to deal with other members who trigger us since we can use the ignore feature. We all have emotional problems here. That's why we are in therapy. (Maybe not all of us-maybe some are in therapy for self-improvement etc). It's understandable to have conflict amongst the group. Acting out emotional problems in moderation as an authority is quite another thing, imo. Some, if not many of us have been abused or harmed by authority figures w/emotional problems. That was my safety issue. But everyone cannot possibly be satisfied. That's just life.

I do feel i got what i needed by posting here. Answers mostly. Few would argue how confusing it could be to be asked to be a moderator one day, banned the next. With no explanation. But worse than the confusion was feeling dehumanized by not being afforded the dignity of being given a reason or being allowed to have a voice. And yes, i do want some empathy concerning that aspect of the situation. Who wouldn't?

Good luck on your journeys. Much love to all. Heart face
Attachment GirlAttachment GirlAdmin
Just for the record, I had nothing to do with Irish being banned. I was not a mod at the time nor was I consulted. I posted what I did because 1) I thought what was said minimalized to the point of distortion Irish's contributions to the conflicts she was involved in 2) it was part of a long pattern of attacks and disruptions.

Edited to add: I was actually asked to step back in to help out when things were blowing up and recused myself and shortly thereafter surrendered all mod privileges (which had been retained to help the new moderation team with tech issues if necessary) recognizing that I was too closely involved. Actions not consistent with my perusing a personal agenda. If I had been willing to abuse my power as moderator to serve my personal desires this would not have stretched into the years of disruption I have experienced.

Yes Irish, you made yourself clear in your opinion of my moderation over a long period of time. Nor was your voice or complaints ignored by me. I addressed your issues a number of times. I think you are confusing disagreement with not being heard. As for me not knowing what it is like to not have a voice? I experienced it through years of abuse, which is probably why it tends to be strong now. But I have also suffered through years of your abuse with no voice. You have posted attack after attack on me which I have not felt free to respond to or engage with due to my position as moderator and the necessary restraint which went with that position. Just because your perception is that I used no restraint or as your favorite line goes "choose to escalate" does not make it true. No matter how many times you say it is so.

Believe this is for personal reasons if it comforts you, but the truth is that during your time here, you have consistently displayed a pattern of disruption and attack towards anyone in authority. I think Jones stated it most aptly that you have deep philosophical differences. Part of the reason that you were invited to be a moderator is that you had so consistently complained about how the forum was run and your being denied a voice that it seemed like a good opportunity to provide you with some input into how things were done. You turned down this opportunity in favor of continuing to present yourself as a voiceless victim. You are not willing to risk being on the receiving end of the criticism you so freely dispense.

Starlight, I cannot speak for moderation decisions after I stepped down, but while I was moderator, things were kept as private as possible in an attempt to not humiliate a person who was asked to leave.

Jones, thank you for understanding that there is a flesh and blood human being who fulfills the role of moderator here. I have always found it a tad ironic that those who speak the loudest about treating everyone with consideration and care, who so vehemently claim that people need to be protected from harshness, seem to have the least amount of trouble flinging the worst accusations and indictments at the people they perceive as being in authority with no consideration whatsoever that they are treating someone exactly the way they claim no one should be treated. Moderators here are volunteers and people who struggle with their own issues, yet are expected to display a level of non-defensiveness that would be impressive in a seasoned therapist. I hear so many loud cries of how this needs to be a safe place, a principle I heartily agree with. But that should include moderators as well.

AG
I irishMember
quote:
Just for the record, I had nothing to do with Irish being banned. I was not a mod at the time nor was I consulted.


But you did. I was banned for posting while banned. A decision that was made during your tenure.


quote:
Believe this is for personal reasons if it comforts you, but the truth is that during your time here, you have consistently displayed a pattern of disruption and attack towards anyone in authority.


I am defending myself about he authority issues. What you said is not consistent with my actions because I did not have issues about other moderators except for the few times they followed your lead. And no, i did not have a voice. I'd start a new thread about moderation ideas and you never responded or addressed anything.

quote:
Part of the reason that you were invited to be a moderator is that you had so consistently complained about how the forum was run and your being denied a voice that it seemed like a good opportunity to provide you with some input into how things were done.


That's not what i was told by you.

quote:
You turned down this opportunity in favor of continuing to present yourself as a voiceless victim. You are not willing to risk being on the receiving end of the criticism you so freely dispense.


No, i was not willing to devote the time and had no interest. I always said the forum did pretty good at self-moderating rather than aggressively moderating.

quote:
I addressed your issues a number of times. I think you are confusing disagreement with not being heard. As for me not knowing what it is like to not have a voice? I experienced it through years of abuse, which is probably why it tends to be strong now. But I have also suffered through years of your abuse with no voice.


No confusion. I practically begged you to stop bullying people. It wasn't me that even felt victimized for the most part. It was the bullying of others that I protested about. I do not recall you ever addressing my complaints. There was a time you apologized to me on the forum for copying and pasting a post of mine, and using it to start a new thread. That was humiliating but you did apologize. I'll give you that.

quote:
Moderators here are volunteers and people who struggle with their own issues, yet are expected to display a level of non-defensiveness that would be impressive in a seasoned therapist. I hear so many loud cries of how this needs to be a safe place, a principle I heartily agree with. But that should include moderators as well.


I agree with that. Except the part of expecting perfection. i doubt anyone here would expect that. I certainly don't. i just expected you to not be aggressive and bullying and to quit shaming people.

quote:
But I have also suffered through years of your abuse with no voice.


You not only had a voice, you had control. Editing threads. Deleting posts. Closing threads. Banning people.

quote:
You have posted attack after attack on me which I have not felt free to respond to or engage with due to my position as moderator and the necessary restraint which went with that position.


The thing is, you perceive so many things as attacks. You even say it in so many of your threads. You use that word all the time. I was no angel, you are right there, but I really think this part comes from you. I have someone in my personal life i'm trying to deal with now that perceives anything that causes him a gap in his self-esteem and image of himself as an 'attack'. I literally hide from this person as it makes me feel like i did here. These perceived attacks come from everyone and anyone, often as a result of merely not getting approval from others.

I've noticed a change in you lately-you should be proud of yourself. I thought it was cool of you to apologize to RT on her thread. I was disappointed to see that you deleted it. But that thread has ended up being very lovely.
I irishMember
quote:
I would have an easier time taking what you are saying on face value if you had not lied to me multiple times by PM, and misrepresented yourself here


Jones, if you had PM'd me yesterday with the same question, i would have still lied. The PM freaked me out. You said you were comparing my sentence syntax and grammar with posts on other forums to see if it was me. I had waves of feelings of being 'hunted'. The rational part of me thought-she's just trying to be a friend to AG. The child part of me was scared to death you were trying to find out where i lived and come after me. And if anyone else would have asked me after that, i would have lied to them too, thinking they were just getting information from me to give to you.

I so have paranoia issues! If you only knew how i grew up, you'd understand! I hadn't been in therapy long enough to work these out. But i can say the 'rational'/adult part of me is aware of this but sometimes the child me trumps those thoughts.

For whatever reason, i feel safe addressing this out in the open. I have this thing that if others 'see' things, it somehow makes me safe. Go figure.

But i also was confused about your role on the forum. I wouldn't see you post for months, but then you'd appear and post when there was conflict. I'd think-is she a consult to the moderation? An advisor?

Yes, I'm sorry for that. But yeah, i was really freaked out.
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