HB,
Sounds like you have a great T!

My very favorite quote from Mother Theresa is "God promises not to test me beyond what I can bear, but sometimes I wish he wouldn't trust me so much."

That's my T. He's trusts me more than I trust myself which makes me stretch further than I think I can. It also occasionally makes me want to throw heavy objects at him. But he only laughs when I tell him that.

AG

quote:

"but then I'll be hurt!"

The one my T gives me funny looks about is "I might fall apart." After she raises her eyebrows at me, she asks me what I think "falling apart" looks like. I have lived my whole life not letting people know that I have feelings and emotions because I think I'm supposed to be the strong one. It's ok for other people to "fall apart" in front of me, but I can't do it in front of others. It takes a lot of energy to avoid showing my insides to other people.

My T is working hard at letting me see that she is a safe person to fall apart in front of. I'm getting there slowly but surely. Maybe one day it will click in my stubborn head.

PL

quote:

I have lived my whole life not letting people know that I have feelings and emotions because I think I'm supposed to be the strong one.

(Taps on glass)*tap*tap*
Hello, is that me in there?

Sorry PL, but you are beginning to frighten me. You sound just like me. And that sounds like my T. Yesterday I told her I didn't want to leave after my session and she asked why so I told her I was afraid to have an emotional breakdown. She asked "What does having an emotional breakdown mean for you?" I kid you not. LOL.

JM

They must have gone to the same college or something! Maybe our issues were covered in Therapy 101.

Thanks for giving me a good laugh, again. My nerves are starting to build as I see her in an hour. Ughhhhhhhh! Why do I let myself get so worked up? Well, at least I know she will give me some relief and then I can start to worry about the next thing!

PL

I had to LOL at both of your posts. I always tell my T "I'm a mess, I'm a BIG mess" and he tells me I am NOT a mess and why do I think that I'm a mess? What does that mean to me?

Geesh...they all went to the same school.

But I honestly adore him. He's a great T and has helped me so much.

Good luck PL with your session. Let us know how it goes.

TN

Whew! Good session -- relief for awhile.
We got on the topic again of how I can't let down in front of anyone. I realized that since I have never done that, I don't know "what it looks like" to do it. Therefore, I couldn't answer her question very well. Even so, she really helped me think some things out. Too bad I now have to wait two weeks to see her. I felt like I was on a roll. Oh well, I know it will come up again.

She gave me a book to read, "Perfect Women" by Colette Dowling. Has anyone read it? It looks interesting to me. The book jacket says "hidden fears of inadequacy and the drive to perform." That pretty much sums me up! I'll read it over the Christmas holidays and let you know what I think.

PL

quote:

Originally posted by Just Me:

I will say that if you have to fight or concsiously hold back from experiencing it you're fooling yourself. Someone who doesn't feel transference doesn't have to fight it. And to hold back from attachment is repeating the same thing you learned to do in your history. To think that attachment and dependency mean bad, when in fact working with someone who is highly qualified to help you see the difference is more rewarding than any of us can find words for.

JM

What does transference have to do with attachment or dependence? Does transference have anything to do with counting down the days until your next session?

Have you ever considered that maybe some individuals are/have been in therapy because they become very "attached and dependent" to individuals that are in their lives and that it is an unhealthy attachment/dependency? This isn't my first foray into therapy. I was in therapy many years ago and I learned that I needed to be in control of my life. Everyone has choices and this is what I chose. No, I am not fooling myself about transference, but I am also not dealing with issues from "my past". I have dealt with those previously. I am dealing with issues that I am experiencing currently.

quote:

Originally posted by Simplyme2003:
What does transference have to do with attachment or dependence? Does transference have anything to do with counting down the days until your next session?

I think it has everything to do with attachment and dependence, especially if that was lacking in a person's childhood.

There are different definitions of what transference really is. While I've been looking upon my feelings for my son's T as transference, my own T has questioned on a couple of occasions whether it was transference or something else. She said yesterday it sounded like I was "falling in love" but without all the romantic, physical attraction. I see that my feelings became so intense, so quickly, because I never felt as accepted and validated as I did with her. That is something that was sorely missing from my childhood. I became attached and dependent on her, because she filled that need for me.

Simplyme2003: I have also made a decision to be in control my life, and to not get too dependent on anyone. Believe me, the last thing I was expecting was the depth and intensity of my feelings.

I'm very envious of those who get to work through their transference issues with their Ts. It seems like a very positive experience to me.

OW

quote:

I'm very envious of those who get to work through their transference issues with their Ts. It seems like a very positive experience to me.

I know it has been for me. I had so many feelings surrounding my lack of attachment and so many disavowed feelings from my childhood that I had never been able to acknowledge let alone express. It was through the dynamics of the interaction with my T that these feelings surfaced and were expressed. There have been times when I have flung so many feelings at him that he had nothing to do with causing. But his ability to stay with me, hear me and understand me while not being threatened by my feelings has helped me to stop fearing them so much.

I don't think transference or dependence are necessary for everyone, but for me and my issues they have been key in doing some very deep work mainly because my T has handled the transference almost flawlessly.

I have struggled with these feelings in a lot of relationships throughout my life. Looking at more deeply with my T and figuring out the reasons and pain underneath those feelings are what has ultimately freed me from them and given back control of my life.

So I don't think that everyone needs to have this happen in therapy, but for those for whom it does happen, working through it, even if that means being dependent on your T for awhile (something I hated and struggled against for a long time) I think is the surest path to healing.

And OW, that is an extremely gracious thing for you to say with what you're facing right now. Thank you.
AG

PL,
I am glad that your session went well yesterday. I so understand not being able to let down your guard in front of everyone, again I always had to be the strong one in my family too even though I was the youngest and considerably younger than my siblings at that. Everything was already so dysfunctional by the time I came along the only role I could assume was the strong one (and the clown of course). I often had to carry my mother’s emotions and she was unable to contain mine. My T has been ever patient and persistent in helping me see that SHE is different than my mother and by allowing myself to work through the transference feelings it has forced me to see the difference and to re-experience my emotions and needs in the right way and within the symbolic embrace and security of my attachment to my T. It is an amazing process.

It sounds like you are really developing a solid and trusting relationship with your T. That is highly important in the out working of your therapy. To allow yourself to experience the attachment you never had allows your brain to make vital connections that were never made in infancy so that we ultimately stop repeating the same behavior patterns we otherwise tend to make in our relationships throughout our life.

I know about those sessions when you feel like you are finally on a roll and they have to end. I’ve had two hour sessions before and that is almost enough time to get on a roll and cover enough things sufficiently. But there is __always__ more it seems. I never run out of things to work on.

I seen my T twice again this week and will see her again on the 31st. I am really looking forward to that already. I still think AG needs to get to work on that time machine and fast forward all of us into the day of our next appt. I know she’s trying. I see her looking up from the pile of scrap metal, components and wires to wipe the grease off her face.
JM

quote:

I'm very envious of those who get to work through their transference issues with their Ts. It seems like a very positive experience to me.

OW,
It has been a wonderful positive experience for me. In fact I can say that all of the intense emotions, painful struggles, and humiliating exposure have been worth it. I've said it before and do believe there is another side of transference. Very much like AG's open hill covered meadow.

I also believe that all you've felt for your son's T can still be worked out perhaps with your own T. As you may count it a loss and grieve that loss, your T can help you cope with that loss and still identify where it all fits into your past experiences. It's not a lost cause.

I think you are very strong and courageous in your approach and I am glad that you joined our community.

quote:

the only role I could assume was the strong one (and the clown of course)

JM

I may frighten you, but you are scaring me to pieces!!! I think I must be your evil twin!

Another thing I am working on with my T is the feeling that I have to "perform." To be accepted. I've had a hard time with that in therapy because I have felt that I need to perform right for her. We finally had that discussion (it was a rough one), so I'm starting to see that is ok to show up to therapy without an agenda and just see where things go. She has a way of getting me to talk about something significant every time.

PL

OW

quote:

I think it has everything to do with attachment and dependence, especially if that was lacking in a person's childhood.

This statement just really hit home for me. I know that there was very little attachment in my childhood, and I was forced to be independant at a very young age. Now I find myself easily attaching to anyone who shows me some kindness or security.

This has made for some very bad relationship choices. Presently, my T and I have developed a good relationship. She wants me to work through my problems without becoming dependant on her. She wants me to think for myself, and learn. At first I was quite hurt by that, but I see how I need to work through my stuff and not become too dependant. Being independant for so long has made me become too dependant.

Kats

quote:

Another thing I am working on with my T is the feeling that I have to "perform." To be accepted. I've had a hard time with that in therapy because I have felt that I need to perform right for her.

PL,
Don't tell me that you performed for your family too. As well as being the clown that made __everybody__laugh, and from a very young age mind you, I was also a performer in other ways. My mother was always setting me up to sing and dance whenever people came over. But somewhere along the line I must have suffered a humiliating blow and would refuse to do that anymore, much to my mother's strong disapproval and sore disappointment.

So I have experienced a need to "perform" a little for my T, but not too much I don't think. Of course I love to make her laugh (especially of she is trying not to) and then I want to be the good client and do everything right. But I think that stuff eventually takes a back seat and you reveal who you really are behind the mask. Not that the humor and ability to perform is necessarily a bad thing, but it won't always be a distraction.

quote:

My mother was always setting me up to sing and dance whenever people came over.

Ok JM so now I am really creeped out! We must have lived parallel lives.

I have had the "performance" discussion with my T. I think that is why I get so anxious every time I go to therapy. The pressure that I put on myself to "do it right" is overwhelming.

quote:

But I think that stuff eventually takes a back seat and you reveal who you really are behind the mask.

It's nice to hear this. I know that I have allowed a tiny crack in my shield, and maybe more for my T than for anyone else. But I am allowing a few other people to peek inside just a little bit. (My husband for one) Wonder what I will look like when the whole shield falls down? Wonder if that will ever happen?

PL

I really don't mean to creep you out PL.

Well everyone, I did it, I took the plunge and... (sit down cause you're not going to beleive this)
...I called my T this morning. (Dead silence replaced by gasps and gufaws) I even asked for a call back just so that I can hear her voice. I know, I know, I should let her enjoy the holidays, but I'm needy. There is a reason I need to hear her voice though. She is traveling out of town and I just want a signal that she made it safely. Knowing my history, she will completely understand that fear if I tell her that is why I need to hear from her. Should only take a minute and I will feel fine.

The needy little girl.

quote:

Wonder what I will look like when the whole shield falls down? Wonder if that will ever happen?

The really interesting thing for me about ya'll conversation so far is that I really identify with what ya'll are saying - being the clown, performing, but also just never letting anyone "in." But I don't really know what _isn't_ that but _is_ me. Like, if someone asked me to "be myself" and I didn't do that, I don't know what I'd be.

It's actually more than a little scary to even think about.

quote:

Like, if someone asked me to "be myself" and I didn't do that, I don't know what I'd be.

I know the feeling. If I were to be "myself" around anyone, they would not recognize me. The "inside" me is so different from the "outside" me. I don't think I am really comfortable with either one.

JM - It all sounds completely understandable to me! (Of course that is from a nutty person! ) I have voice mails from my T saved from over a year ago that I listen to when I get sad or anxious. And I thought I was the clever one!

I decided that since I won't see her until the 31st, I am journaling every time I feel low and I will send it to her before I see her. Already I have written some pretty deep stuff. Hope I have the guts to mail it. It sorta makes me feel like I am talking to her and I can imagine the expression on her face, and some of her words. It helps to calm me down.

PL

Hi all...I'm in that state right now of feeling paralyzed or numb I guess. I've been reading today but haven't felt like posting.

@JM...I so understand you worrying about your T traveling and how uncertain it makes you feel until you know she's arrived safely. That's because she is your attachment figure (but you already know that I'm sure). And you are a little girl where she is concerned. In my case it's that my T is going for some surgery this week and it is making me feel very insecure and fearful. It's nothing life threatening but it feels very scary to me. I won't be seeing him this week because of it but he has committed to seeing me the following week. I hope he is able and feeling well enough to keep that appointment. He has told me I can call or email but do I want to bother him when he's not feeling well? I may email him just to know that he's okay. He has told me not to worry and there is no need to worry but, again, I feel like I'm 5 years old and worried about my caregiver going away.

@PL...I now have 4 VMs that I keep. Two are on my cell phone and I listen to them all the time. I especially love love when he says my name. I may follow your lead and go journal all these emotions I'm feeling and perhaps talk to him about it when I see him next time.

TN

Oh my, saving vm's... I have been saving her vm's and calling her vm and hanging up for nearly 2 years. When I need to hear her voice now and don't need her to call me back I listen to the recording she made for me before she left for her 3 week vacation in October. That is very soothing.(Anyone remember _that_ time period? )

Since then I have asked permission to record our sessions because I was having difficulty remembering things. She was all for it and I find that extremely useful. I am surprised at how much I don't really retain in session. It must be too much for me to take in that it doesn't permeate with me. But when I listen to our sessions later I find myself saying "Wow, I forgot she said that or I didn't catch that before." It is very helpful and not to mention soothing for me to listen to it again(and again and again and again)later. Oh and when she says my name, yeah I love it. I _so_ get that.

quote:

Like, if someone asked me to "be myself" and I didn't do that, I don't know what I'd be.

Wynne, I'm not sure if I really do either. This little child still seems to be dominating so much of my thoughts and behavior lately I don't know that I can see beyond that quite yet. So when she fully integrates I don't know what that will look like. But humor is a big part of who I am. It is actually one of the more positive coping mechanisms I've employed in a healthy way.

My journaling has pretty much transformed into a series of letters and updates to my T and I will often read them to her at the beginning of session. I'm a glutton for misery.

It's interesting how we all seem to cope so similarly don't you think? Have I said how much I love this community!

Love the avatar TN! I can see how meaningful that would be to you. Worrying about my T is classic transference. I worried about losing my mother for 28 years until I actually did lose her. So this fits my history and we will probably need to address that but where to fit it into an already jam packed session, I don't know. We'll put it on the ever growing queue. And judging by the size of that, I'll be in therapy for the rest of my life. And TN, I am sure that your T having surgery would create some intense feelings of insecurity and fear for you as well. It feels like a such a risk and we can't risk losing them. Though I know that we won't, but at least for me that is what my fears are attached to. An impending fear of loss, of losing someone I _love_ and something very bad happening was played over and over in my childhood. As for calling or emailing your T after his surgery look at it this way, the only way he is going to get your messages will be when _he_ decides to check in. So you won't be "bothering him". It will be _his_ choice when he is up to replying. (unless he happens to have his cell phone on him when you call and it goes off while he is in surgery and he wakes up out of anesthesia to answer it)Seriously though, I hope that takes the burden off from you a little. When I confirmed her availability over the holiday she said she wouldn't be checking messages every day, but will be happy to call me back when _she_ makes time to do that. And I had to repeate that "So it will be your choice when you do and I won't be disrupting your holiday." She said "Right." I swear I am like a five year old.