Wow, AG What a great explanation. I am so knee deep in the middle of all of this. You have given me a lot to think and ponder about. Sometimes so many thoughts and feelings rush into my head that I don't know which one to pick out first. I know that saying more of this out loud to my T will help me sort it out. Thanks for giving me one more nudge.
PL
quote:"I'm a crackpot, she's a crackpot, he's a crackpot, we're all crakpots, wouldn't you like to be a crackpot too?
JM
If you are dating yourself, then I'm in those dates too! Thanks for giving me a really good belly laugh. (And my belly could afford that!)
And yes, T-shirts for everyone!
PL
quote:you have to try things and then pay attention to how you're feeling about doing them.
This was the key for me in discerning between what I needed, what I thought I needed, what I was actually getting and if that was what I really needed.
What helped me understand was another "T-ism". T told me at the end of the day to think the day over and pay attention to the things that I really enjoyed and felt good about and the things I really didn't like or felt bad about. She said to then try to consciously move toward the things that felt good and move away from the things that felt bad. Yes, simplistic sounding I know but don't make me repeat AG's T's T-ism OK? (There must be a whole class they have to take on how to explain all of this stuff to clients in way that will stick. I am envisioning a whole line of T-shirts we could sell online....)
quote:AG's T's T-ism
I'm scared because I understood that.
But a line of T-shirts, hmmmm....
quote:i discovered that it is vulnerability that scares me so much.
HB
I think I have this conversation every session with my T. It affects me in every part of my life. With every relationship I have, even with my husband. I am "scared to death" to open myself up and let someone in. I am only just letting my T in and I have been seeing her for 2 yrs. And asking anyone for anything that fulfills my needs - puts me in a state of panic! So, I just portray myself as someone who has it all together and has no needs. My insides definitely do not match my outside. And now my insides are screaming to get out and I am scared.
I guess we can slosh through it together.
Merry Christmas
PL
quote:And asking anyone for anything that fulfills my needs - puts me in a state of panic! So, I just portray myself as someone who has it all together and has no needs. My insides definitely do not match my outside. And now my insides are screaming to get out and I am scared.
Hmmm... (followed by one long thought process) I do this so well that I don't even realize I'm doing it. I have been severely depressed for months but when you spend your time making people laugh or living a big facade, most people really can't see anything different. I am finding out I have my T fooled pretty good thinking that I am doing better than I actually am. I don't get that. How does she not know? I thought I have been very forthcoming with her, but when I talked to her yesterday she was taken by surprise when I told her how completely nonfunctioning I have been for several weeks now. She's like "I've been aware that you've experienced ebbs and flows but I didn't know it was this bad." I think I learned to say just enough to people to satisfy their inclination that "yes, something is wrong," but not allow them to see the true depth of my pain and misery so I wouldn't retain the focus of toomuch attention. I thought I was communicating with my T better than that though. That's the weird part and almost scary. I think I am afraid to sound weak, if people only knew how bad I really feel inside they would shake their heads, they couldn't contain it. I'm afraid if they knew I really would be wearing a white coat.
Yesterday I talked with 2 friends and they both said something similar, "I can see that you seem sad or down sometimes but then you start laughing and saying funny things and I think 'Oh, she's fine.'" No matter how hard I try I can't seem to communicate what I need to. I always wrap it up so neatly in a pretty little package with ribbons and bows that it's hard for people to understand. Even my T. And I'm not mad at her for that. I completely acknowledge that it is 'what I do' though I wish I didn't.
I attempted suicide when I was 15 years old. Before and after I tried to get people to hear me. I tried to communicate yet I was afraid to speak up. It felt like someone always had their hand over my mouth. What a conflict that has always been. And I also learned to speak very softly. Some people can't hear me and most people won't ask for me to speak up and so it's easy to get ignored when you do try to speak. It's easy to slip back into a corner when no one can you hear you anyway. Until I say something funny and have a room filled with laughter which reinforces my need to make people laugh, and keeps the attention away from the pain I am really feeling. I guess I learned that's what people really want so that's what I do. That's waht people expect from me. Yes they notice I seem sad, "but give her a minute she'll snap out of it." That's the biggest joke of all and it isn't even funny.
JM
quote:Yesterday I talked with 2 friends and they both said something similar, "I can see that you seem sad or down sometimes but then you start laughing and saying funny things and I think 'Oh, she's fine.'" No matter how hard I try I can't seem to communicate what I need to. I always wrap it up so neatly in a pretty little package with ribbons and bows that it's hard for people to understand. Even my T. And I'm not mad at her for that. I completely acknowledge that it is 'what I do' though I wish I didn't.
JM, I also think that people who care about us _want_ to think that we're okay, that everything's okay, so they take indicators that we can throw out there - what Tfella called for me "mixed messages" - and see mostly the ones they want. Or they weight them all equally, the indicators of good and those of not-good, when in fact the indicators of good are just our ways of lightening up the dark we're in.
The one blogger I really admire for how she manages to light up the dark with humor while still clearly expressing how very bad stuff is is "Secret Life of a Manic Depressive". I started reading her blog at (what is now) the bottom of Page 2. Warning: blog uses profanity, describes her situation (which is Not Awesome) in a fair bit of detail, and ...well, and she's also what I think is hysterically funny. But she's what I thought of, JM, when you talked about using humor and people not getting that you weren't okay. 'Cause I seem to do that, too. And she does it, but it's clear when she's not okay.
Anyways. I just wanted to add that I, and we, hear you. And we're listening.
quote:I also think that people who care about us _want_ to think that we're okay,
I know that's true and I also think I want to beleive I'm ok. This is something I do to myself more than to other people. Somehow I believe if they really knew how bad things were they'd have to leave or I'd suddenly be the center of attention and that makes me uncomfortable. But if I becpme the center of attention by making people laugh just long enough that they feel it's safe enough to look the other way again, then I can go back into hiding. Sounds confusing when I say it, and I know it is much more complex than my explanation acknowledges. Maybe it's just jibberish. I'm not even sure.
JM, could it also be a little of "fake it until you make it" kind of thinking? If I act happy and make others happy then maybe I will BE happy? I know that this works for some things but unfortunately it is not very effective on depression.
Growing up I had to perfect becoming invisible in order to survive. It was my only protection from my sister's abuse. Later it was my protection from making an ass out of myself through high school and college. Now I use it for a "nothing gained than nothing to lose" kind of rational. I have forced myself out of my shell in attempts to be social and make friends but it not me. It is a me that I think people will be more comfortable with and will like more than the real me. Even with my good friends I try to not show my sadness and negativity all of the time - I am so afraid that they will get sick of me and stop wanting to be around me. I work hard to focus on them and their "stuff" and only reveal my stuff to the same level as theirs. Very few people know I am in therapy and even fewer have been in therapy themselves and so most people I am friends with have no idea what therapy is really like - how hard it is.
Managing all of this takes an incredible amount of energy and leaves me so exhausted that sometimes I would rather just be alone so that I can just be myself. I live in a catch-22: I desperately want friends and to not be lonely but in order to maintain friendships I exhaust myself hiding half of who I am so then it feels easier to be alone. Sucks, don't it? A nice perfect trap of my own creation that keeps me alone, invisible, and miserable.
I think most of us here are excellent at this - being someone outside that we are not inside. It is how we survived growing up. It is how we protect our softest most vulnerable parts now. I try to remember that everyone is afraid and are trying to protect themselves from pain too. They may not seem scared but they might just be good actors too. Our T's are literally pros at this: showing us a person on the outside that could be far from who they are on the inside. With all the hiding and pretending going on it is a very rare person indeed that has no fear to completely expose themselves to the world and live a fully authentic life. Sure, that may be our goal but I can only think of one person who has for the most part achieved this and you know what - I find him incredibly hard to talk to. He is one of my good friend's husbands and since he really doesn't care what anyone thinks of him he doesn't try to relate to other people much or work on his "people skills." I don't know if this makes since but not every authentic person is someone to whom people naturally love and gravitate towards. Some level of dysfunction can actually make us more understandable and relate-able to others.
Hmmm... well, I guess I am through rambling now. Reading over this post I see I started in one place and ended in quite another. Thank goodness I am not getting graded on this!
Growing up I had to perfect becoming invisible in order to survive. It was my only protection from my sister's abuse. Later it was my protection from making an ass out of myself through high school and college. Now I use it for a "nothing gained than nothing to lose" kind of rational. I have forced myself out of my shell in attempts to be social and make friends but it not me. It is a me that I think people will be more comfortable with and will like more than the real me. Even with my good friends I try to not show my sadness and negativity all of the time - I am so afraid that they will get sick of me and stop wanting to be around me. I work hard to focus on them and their "stuff" and only reveal my stuff to the same level as theirs. Very few people know I am in therapy and even fewer have been in therapy themselves and so most people I am friends with have no idea what therapy is really like - how hard it is.
Managing all of this takes an incredible amount of energy and leaves me so exhausted that sometimes I would rather just be alone so that I can just be myself. I live in a catch-22: I desperately want friends and to not be lonely but in order to maintain friendships I exhaust myself hiding half of who I am so then it feels easier to be alone. Sucks, don't it? A nice perfect trap of my own creation that keeps me alone, invisible, and miserable.
I think most of us here are excellent at this - being someone outside that we are not inside. It is how we survived growing up. It is how we protect our softest most vulnerable parts now. I try to remember that everyone is afraid and are trying to protect themselves from pain too. They may not seem scared but they might just be good actors too. Our T's are literally pros at this: showing us a person on the outside that could be far from who they are on the inside. With all the hiding and pretending going on it is a very rare person indeed that has no fear to completely expose themselves to the world and live a fully authentic life. Sure, that may be our goal but I can only think of one person who has for the most part achieved this and you know what - I find him incredibly hard to talk to. He is one of my good friend's husbands and since he really doesn't care what anyone thinks of him he doesn't try to relate to other people much or work on his "people skills." I don't know if this makes since but not every authentic person is someone to whom people naturally love and gravitate towards. Some level of dysfunction can actually make us more understandable and relate-able to others.
Hmmm... well, I guess I am through rambling now. Reading over this post I see I started in one place and ended in quite another. Thank goodness I am not getting graded on this!
quote:Somehow I believe if they really knew how bad things were they'd have to leave or I'd suddenly be the center of attention and that makes me uncomfortable. But if I becpme the center of attention by making people laugh just long enough that they feel it's safe enough to look the other way again, then I can go back into hiding.
JM
This is not the least bit confusing to me. It describes how I live my life! I think it is my responsibility to make people laugh. And I mean really laugh! And if I can make a joke about myself before someone else does, then I think I am safe. I feel pressured (and it is myself applying the pressure) at lunch time at work to entertain everyone. But in my head I am thinking, "If they only knew, they would never recognize the inner me." I'm afraid that I would be letting those around me down, if I were to outwardly show what is inside me. After all, why would they want to know or care what's in my head? My T would go crazy over that statement! Well, maybe not crazy, but at least disagree with me. She says that I have placed standards on myself that are really high, and that I don't place those standards on anyone else. I need to learn that it is ok for things to be "good enough."
It is not jibberish JM.
PL
quote:I think I am afraid to sound weak
JM
So did you pull this one right out of my brain??!!!
Oh yeah, I have to be strong! I couldn't let anyone see that I was weak, then I would become vulnerable and I would just crumble and die! Yep, my T and I are really working on this one. It is one of the scariest things for me though. I have always felt the need to be strong. Hence, the big, thick shield that surrounds me.PL
Hi everyone, another basket case here. I just wanted to drop in and wish everyone a Merry Xmas!
I can relate to so many things I have read thus far in this thread..the performing for people sounds VERY familiar!
I can relate to so many things I have read thus far in this thread..the performing for people sounds VERY familiar!
Hi SG
Merry Christmas to you too, and nice to meet you.
PL
Merry Christmas to you too, and nice to meet you.
PL
Well I managed to get through my usual appt day w/o my T. I have to say it was a rough morning, but I took an early nap and was in quite a different mood afterwards. Instead of despondent I was a little more angry. I don't know about anyone else, but sometimes I find that anger can be a little more productive than being extremely sad. I experienced some flashbacks and because of what triggered them that's what made me angry. I hate feeling hostage to my past.
I hope everyone else is doing ok. I am sure there are a lot of emotions this time of year for many.
Take care all!
JM
I hope everyone else is doing ok. I am sure there are a lot of emotions this time of year for many.
Take care all!
JM
*twitch* yeah, I personally am back at my FOO's place, JM, and ... yeah. words fail. I wish I could be somewhere that was all productive and angry-like. I fall into such a rut here... it's like I can't remember who I am, what I am, when I'm here. I'm just back to being that scared little kid. Like, I even start using the wrong tense when I talk about whether I'm living here or not, and all that. I hate it, and if I could get a bit more angry about it, I feel like I could move past it a little ... not easier, but maybe just work towards something more productively.
I'm so sorry that you couldn't see your T on your normal day. It seems like the time of year when we most need them, because it is that time of year, they can't be there.
Have I mentioned I <3 this forum, lately?
I'm so sorry that you couldn't see your T on your normal day. It seems like the time of year when we most need them, because it is that time of year, they can't be there.
Have I mentioned I <3 this forum, lately?
quote:It seems like the time of year when we most need them, because it is that time of year, they can't be there.
That is so ho ho friggen ironic isn't it? Yes, we need them more than ever and they go merry freakin holidays on us. *snicker*
Anyway, I am sorry you are feeling trapped in a rut. I am glad you are able to keep in touch on forum though. I love it too.
In a rut? I guess it's like that. It's just hard to remember who I am when I'm here. All the professional life I live, all the things I've learned how to do since i've left, it's like it all goes away.
That's prolly crazy, but hey. This _is_ the 'basket case' thread.
I love it.
That's prolly crazy, but hey.
This _is_ the 'basket case' thread. quote:That is so ho ho friggen ironic isn't it? Yes, we need them more than ever and they go merry freakin holidays on us. *snicker*
I love it.
That's not crazy at all. I think it's pretty amazing to think of all you had to overcome to get to where you are. Not that I know much of anything about you personally, but I'm just sepaking to what I pick up about you here.
Which is very likable.
Which is very likable.
Wynne,
I don't know if this is any consolation but after the holidays last year my T told me that while she was visiting her family her and her FOO fell right back into their old roles of relating to each other. Apparently there was some conflict but of course she didn't give me anymore details. But when you are with your FOO it is extremely hard to not be who you were when you were all still living together. Kids especially have firm roles in the family and they totally polarize. One is smart so the other is not-so-smart, one is sporty and one is bookish, one is accomplished and one is a failure and so on. These roles in our FOO's are so well defined and engraved into us that even T's get sucked in. This has made me feel better for getting sucked in myself. I am sorry that you have to be there though, since you seem very uncomfortable. Maybe next holiday you are just simply not available to come home or something. I've had to do that and even though it makes my mom very unhappy (which makes everyone else unhappy) I value my emotional health over my mom's fulfillment of her "perfect family" illusion.
Did you bring a good book to read? Sometimes I find that a really good excuse for not really talking much to anyone.
JM,
I am glad you got through the day OK. I am sorry that you have been struggling lately and have to wait to see you T again. I wish there was something out there that can soothe the ache but I haven't found anything equal to how it feels to be with T. Even though my T left me in good spirits the days still feel very long and my next session seems very far away.
I don't know if this is any consolation but after the holidays last year my T told me that while she was visiting her family her and her FOO fell right back into their old roles of relating to each other. Apparently there was some conflict but of course she didn't give me anymore details. But when you are with your FOO it is extremely hard to not be who you were when you were all still living together. Kids especially have firm roles in the family and they totally polarize. One is smart so the other is not-so-smart, one is sporty and one is bookish, one is accomplished and one is a failure and so on. These roles in our FOO's are so well defined and engraved into us that even T's get sucked in. This has made me feel better for getting sucked in myself. I am sorry that you have to be there though, since you seem very uncomfortable. Maybe next holiday you are just simply not available to come home or something. I've had to do that and even though it makes my mom very unhappy (which makes everyone else unhappy) I value my emotional health over my mom's fulfillment of her "perfect family" illusion.
Did you bring a good book to read? Sometimes I find that a really good excuse for not really talking much to anyone.
JM,
I am glad you got through the day OK. I am sorry that you have been struggling lately and have to wait to see you T again. I wish there was something out there that can soothe the ache but I haven't found anything equal to how it feels to be with T. Even though my T left me in good spirits the days still feel very long and my next session seems very far away.