hi AG:
Holidays are very hard for me. I lost a very important figure in my life at Christmas and the memories are huge this time of year: All the smells, the music, all the hype...

I can't see my T for 4 more weeks(it's already been 2 weeks). I am really struggling today because I REALLY REALLY want to contact him. But I am trying to be strong. I may discuss terminating my therapy at the next visit. I can see lots of progress. I don't want to not see him again, but I am not knowing what to do with the tansference issue. I think that may be the only reason I am still going...

we seiin our therpst on friday, then we meetin shrinklady and her onsatday, den we having holidays for two weeks.

samy

Hi Samy! It's good to hear from you. Sounds like you will have quite a full weekend. Are you going to be in and out for the two weeks or will we have to wait to hear from you until you get back? I hope you have a good time.

As for me being a basket case: My T is out of town all next week... AAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH! NOT AGAIN! Ok, it's just one week, you can do this. Does re-traumatize mean _anything_ to her?

Ok, not really. I think I will be ok this time, but thanks for starting the thread a little early AG. I am sure it will be quite the hot spot over the next week.

And ((((((AJB)))))). It sounds like you are really struggling. The decison to terminate is not an easy one even when "it's time." So my heart goes out to you. You really feel that you've dealt with all the issues you needed to deal with? (I wonder what that's like) It's true that sometimes you do have to move on, but I hope it is because you really do feel a sustainable and positive shift in your life. I hope you will make your way back here from time to time though and at least say hi even if you do terminate.

JM

My last appointment is tomorrow morning, then I wait until Jan. 8, and I'm not thinking about it! OK, now I am.

I'm sure I'll be a basket case on Friday because not only is it the last appointment with my T for a couple of weeks, tomorrow afternoon I will see my son's T at a Christmas party her agency is throwing for all the kids in the school-based mental health program. It will be the last time I see her before my son gets a new evaluation which will most likely recommend a new T that specializes in his recent issues.

Happy Holidays!

Wow! Glad I opened the thread.

AJB,
It's good to hear from you and I am sorry for your loss. We lost my very beloved MIL last January and this is our first Christmas without her. This can be such a tough time of year just because of expectations, add in a major loss and its really difficult.

And four weeks! You're a better woman than I am! It must be hard to be thinking about termination. But I definitely think talking to your T about it is a good idea.

Hi Samy,
Wow, I didn't know you knew Shrinklady out in the real world. That's pretty cool. I would imagine seeing your T followed by seeing your T and Shrinklady makes for a really great couple of days. But I know two weeks is a long time!

JM,
Just keep telling yourself that you made it through three weeks before, you can do one week. May not help, but it will give you something to do to pass the time.

OW,
That's a lot to handle all at once, seeing your son's therapist for possibly the last time while your T is away. I'm really sorry. I really have to get going on finishing my time machine so we can all skip these gaps.

We can all get through this together!

AG

quote:

I can't see my T for 4 more weeks(it's already been 2 weeks). I am really struggling today because I REALLY REALLY want to contact him. But I am trying to be strong. I may discuss terminating my therapy at the next visit. I can see lots of progress. I don't want to not see him again, but I am not knowing what to do with the tansference issue. I think that may be the only reason I am still going...

AJB...you sound like me...trying to be strong (or good) by not contacting my T when I needed to. In fact, if you do contact him that is a healthy thing to do. It's really okay to want contact with him when you have a need you don't have to be strong. As I've learned, it's not wimpy or needy or dependent, you are just asking for what you need. Some of never learned that it was okay to make our needs known and so we struggle with this. As far as being finished with therapy...I think (and please this is only my opinion)if you have not dealt with the transference issue within the therapy then there is still work to be done. Bringing the transference into the open can be lots of grist for the (therapy) mill. Good luck with whatever decision you make.

TN

Thank you AG for this topic. I think we will all need support from each other during the holidays. This is my first Christmas without my mom and my Dad died 10 days before Christmas 4 years ago. So Christmas is bittersweet.

I will see my T on Saturday but it's not my session it's my child's appointment (we share the same T). I won't have another session until the 29th which right now seems very far away. I expressed my panic to my T and he very graciously told me I can call him or email him and if I really feel the need he can schedule a telephone session for me. I don't think I will need that but the offer felt so good to hear from him. I will probably end up calling him for a quick check in or email him during that time. Even that small connection helps me get to the next session.

TN

And I thought I was the only one who was already freaking out about a break in my rhythm of therapy! I see her tomorrow and then not until the 30th. Of course at the moment I am going 2x's a week, so missing a week and a half is a killer! Even with going twice a week, I write my feelings to her over the weekend. Writing really helps me to say what I am afraid to say out loud. She is happy to read it before the next session and then I can choose to talk about it or not. It just really helps me to know that she has read it. Good thing that she hasn't offered me her email, I would probably send her a million emails a day. Then she would really be sick of me!

I had already been thinking that this forum was going to be a great help for me while I am not seeing her. Nice to know you all will be around to give your sage advice.

PL

My group met a week ago, meets the 2nd week in January, and then not again until the 3rd week in Jan, so that's the next time I see Tfella again. And in-between it looks like it's the Magical Chairs of T-search.

Nice thread, AG!

Oh man, Wynne,a month! Here's hoping the next T works out! The longest I ever went was six weeks and boy, was that a LONG six weeks. Actually the worst part was that it was five weeks (two week trip by my T, followed by a three week vacation for us) but when we got home there was a message on the answering machine that our T needed to reschedule for a week later because his first grandchild, who had the bad taste to be born in Utah which is a bit of a hike from Syracuse, NY, had been born.
Thought my head was going to explode. But how do fault someone for going to see their first grandchild. Don't ever want to do that again. I think that was actually one of the first times I made an emergency phone call.

My T usually takes two weeks off over Christmas/New Year's. I remember how miserable I was last Christmas. Thank goodness she decided to work next Monday so I'll see her one more time before the holidays and then not until the 5th. So, it is only two weeks but it is two weeks with no possible contact. She doesn't take calls or emails during her breaks. I can't say that I blame her because she only takes a total of 5 weeks off a year.

You know, I am really impressed by her consistency. In the last 2 1/2 yrs that I've been seeing her I don't think either of us has had to cancel an appt. She is pretty much always on time and always cheerful and attentive. I don't think I could do it - having my life so scheduled out like that and having to plan all my vacations way in advance and then prepping all the clients for my absence. I am all for schedules and routines but I still don't think I could keep it up year after year.

Wynne... I've been following your search for a new Tfella. I wish you much luck on your search and I think you are going about it in a very sensible way. I never had to search for a T I sort of just fell into therapy with him. He was recommended by the school for my child to see and after a few weeks I thought...wow I'd like to have some sessions for myself with this guy... he's really good. The rest is history.

PL...That is a very good strategy of writing things down for your T to read. When I have a hard time bringing up a subject for whatever reason, I send my T an email and alert him to the fact. And sometimes I ask him to bring up the subject because I cannot. He is very good about it and this system works well. I also will write stuff down and take it with me but instead of just giving it to him to read...I read it to him out loud. And sometimes that is excruciatingly difficult and painful but I do it. He always tells me how brave and courageous I am. Maybe one day I will really believe it.

And not to get totally OT...yes this is a great place to hang out when you are trying to survive to your next session.

TN

Mine will still be seeing patients during the holidays. While I like and trust my new therapist, I think that it is important for me not to get to "attached" to him. I have enough anxiety with issues in my life that I don't need to add to it and I think that is what I would be doing if I got to the point that I was counting down the days until our next session. Although I do click with my therapist and trust him, I do have great friends that I am able to talk to when things get rough.

Simplyme2003

I am so glad to hear that you have great friends to talk to when things get rough. My question would be though, are these people who you could tell anything? Without worrying about what they think of you, or that they might just slip and tell your secret to someone else, or when they look you in the eye are they thinking about your deepest, darkest feelings? If so, then I think you are very lucky to have people like this in your life.

None of us intended to get "attached" to our T, it just happens. While I know that it is possible to heal without transference, I also know that it is the purest way of getting to those feelings and emotions that you never knew you had.

I understand about all your anxiety issues. I have plenty of my own. And my transference has caused plenty of anxiety too, but I also think that the feelings and anxiety I have with and for my T are helping me to get to the core of my problems.

Just my own 2 cents -- it may be different for you.

PL

I have two great friends with whom I divulge everything with. They listen and I never have to worry what they think about me. I am blessed to have them in my life.

It's interesting that you stated that transference is the purest or best way of getting to emotions or feelings. Different psychologists will have varying opinions on this. Some will even tell you that the term transference is not always used correctly.

I know that everyone is different, but I have made a concious choice to not get attached to my therapist to the point that I am counting down the days to our next session. While I feel that our sessions are productive and helpful, I feel that I would experience anxiety if I were to start counting days to our next session. I believe that I, alone, control my life so I have made a concious effort to not get overly dependent in regards to my therapist. As I stated before, I know that everyone is different and I respect that.

Hi SimplyMe!
It's good to hear from you and I'm glad that things are going well with the new T.

That is so wonderful that you have friends like that. I know I have several good friends who see it all, the good, bad and ugly, but I know they are there no matter what. I have one friend that I've known for over 26 years and I still remember clearly when we realized that this friendship was as important to us as our respective marriages. Having that kind of support has been an amazing help in healing. I'm really glad to hear you have that.

And I agree, transference is not necessary to progress in therapy. I rather envy you for not experiencing it, it tends to be a little consuming for my taste.

But I think when it happens, and I know I could not believe how intense it was, the best way to handle it is to face it head on. So I actually agree with both you and PuppyLover.

AG

SimplyMe,
It is absolutely truthful and I think I already said this, but not everyone experiences transference in therapy nor does everyone need to. But when it happens (and trust me it takes most of us by surprise)it can be an excellent magnifying glass into our deepest emotions and relationship problems that we can't otherwise see. It is not so much about the Therapist as it is about the past. Transference is not a four letter word and while it does incite some anxiety and counting off days, it is not an enemy either.

I will say that if you have to fight or concsiously hold back from experiencing it you're fooling yourself. Someone who doesn't feel transference doesn't have to fight it. And to hold back from attachment is repeating the same thing you learned to do in your history. To think that attachment and dependency mean bad, when in fact working with someone who is highly qualified to help you see the difference is more rewarding than any of us can find words for.

But I also appreciate that the experience you had with your last T may make you err on the side of caution and I don't blame you for that. In fact, it is smart of you. You were given intelligence, and I believe a great deal of intelligence as I sense from your posts and you are using it. Also sounds very much like a survival mechanism, but then I am implying my own expereince there and may be way off.

Anway, I do respect your opinion and feelings and it is nice to have you back.
JM

quote:

I have quite a broad understanding of transference and see it as something that applies to every relationship we have both in and out of Therapy.

You raise another great point HB. Someone get her a hat, coat, and t-shirt. Once it was defined for me I realzied that I experienced transference in MANY realtionships throughout my life. If your prone to it, you will do it naturally.

HB,
I think you nailed it. Learning to handle pain so we can stop building our life around avoiding it is a good summation of what therapy is all about. You can avoid pain but to do so you must give up everything that makes life worth living, including intimate relationships, love, living in the moment and being "present." It's way too high a price.

Instead we need to learn to handle the pain, 'cause no matter what you do, pain happens.

So much of my behavior was built around not allowing myself to be hurt again and it was making me feel miserable, isolated and incredibly lonely. A really significant turning point in my therapy happened when I was telling my therapist about a situation and saying "but then I'll be hurt!" (Honestly, I might have been a little whiney). And my T (who I must assure you is an unbelievably gentle, compassionate, caring man) looked straight at me and said (for shock value). "So what? It won't kill you." I think I literally rocked back in my seat. My thinking had never gone beyond what you did when you were hurt because I was concentrating all my resources on NOT being hurt. We were able to start talking about how do handle the hurt, how do you recover from it, how do you repair the relationship.

Thanks, it was good to remember this (since I'm much better talking about it then putting it consistently into practice. )

AG

HB,
Sounds like you have a great T!

My very favorite quote from Mother Theresa is "God promises not to test me beyond what I can bear, but sometimes I wish he wouldn't trust me so much."

That's my T. He's trusts me more than I trust myself which makes me stretch further than I think I can. It also occasionally makes me want to throw heavy objects at him. But he only laughs when I tell him that.

AG

quote:

"but then I'll be hurt!"

The one my T gives me funny looks about is "I might fall apart." After she raises her eyebrows at me, she asks me what I think "falling apart" looks like. I have lived my whole life not letting people know that I have feelings and emotions because I think I'm supposed to be the strong one. It's ok for other people to "fall apart" in front of me, but I can't do it in front of others. It takes a lot of energy to avoid showing my insides to other people.

My T is working hard at letting me see that she is a safe person to fall apart in front of. I'm getting there slowly but surely. Maybe one day it will click in my stubborn head.

PL

quote:

I have lived my whole life not letting people know that I have feelings and emotions because I think I'm supposed to be the strong one.

(Taps on glass)*tap*tap*
Hello, is that me in there?

Sorry PL, but you are beginning to frighten me. You sound just like me. And that sounds like my T. Yesterday I told her I didn't want to leave after my session and she asked why so I told her I was afraid to have an emotional breakdown. She asked "What does having an emotional breakdown mean for you?" I kid you not. LOL.

JM

They must have gone to the same college or something! Maybe our issues were covered in Therapy 101.

Thanks for giving me a good laugh, again. My nerves are starting to build as I see her in an hour. Ughhhhhhhh! Why do I let myself get so worked up? Well, at least I know she will give me some relief and then I can start to worry about the next thing!

PL

I had to LOL at both of your posts. I always tell my T "I'm a mess, I'm a BIG mess" and he tells me I am NOT a mess and why do I think that I'm a mess? What does that mean to me?

Geesh...they all went to the same school.

But I honestly adore him. He's a great T and has helped me so much.

Good luck PL with your session. Let us know how it goes.

TN

Whew! Good session -- relief for awhile.
We got on the topic again of how I can't let down in front of anyone. I realized that since I have never done that, I don't know "what it looks like" to do it. Therefore, I couldn't answer her question very well. Even so, she really helped me think some things out. Too bad I now have to wait two weeks to see her. I felt like I was on a roll. Oh well, I know it will come up again.

She gave me a book to read, "Perfect Women" by Colette Dowling. Has anyone read it? It looks interesting to me. The book jacket says "hidden fears of inadequacy and the drive to perform." That pretty much sums me up! I'll read it over the Christmas holidays and let you know what I think.

PL

quote:

Originally posted by Just Me:

I will say that if you have to fight or concsiously hold back from experiencing it you're fooling yourself. Someone who doesn't feel transference doesn't have to fight it. And to hold back from attachment is repeating the same thing you learned to do in your history. To think that attachment and dependency mean bad, when in fact working with someone who is highly qualified to help you see the difference is more rewarding than any of us can find words for.

JM

What does transference have to do with attachment or dependence? Does transference have anything to do with counting down the days until your next session?

Have you ever considered that maybe some individuals are/have been in therapy because they become very "attached and dependent" to individuals that are in their lives and that it is an unhealthy attachment/dependency? This isn't my first foray into therapy. I was in therapy many years ago and I learned that I needed to be in control of my life. Everyone has choices and this is what I chose. No, I am not fooling myself about transference, but I am also not dealing with issues from "my past". I have dealt with those previously. I am dealing with issues that I am experiencing currently.

quote:

Originally posted by Simplyme2003:
What does transference have to do with attachment or dependence? Does transference have anything to do with counting down the days until your next session?

I think it has everything to do with attachment and dependence, especially if that was lacking in a person's childhood.

There are different definitions of what transference really is. While I've been looking upon my feelings for my son's T as transference, my own T has questioned on a couple of occasions whether it was transference or something else. She said yesterday it sounded like I was "falling in love" but without all the romantic, physical attraction. I see that my feelings became so intense, so quickly, because I never felt as accepted and validated as I did with her. That is something that was sorely missing from my childhood. I became attached and dependent on her, because she filled that need for me.

Simplyme2003: I have also made a decision to be in control my life, and to not get too dependent on anyone. Believe me, the last thing I was expecting was the depth and intensity of my feelings.

I'm very envious of those who get to work through their transference issues with their Ts. It seems like a very positive experience to me.

OW

quote:

I'm very envious of those who get to work through their transference issues with their Ts. It seems like a very positive experience to me.

I know it has been for me. I had so many feelings surrounding my lack of attachment and so many disavowed feelings from my childhood that I had never been able to acknowledge let alone express. It was through the dynamics of the interaction with my T that these feelings surfaced and were expressed. There have been times when I have flung so many feelings at him that he had nothing to do with causing. But his ability to stay with me, hear me and understand me while not being threatened by my feelings has helped me to stop fearing them so much.

I don't think transference or dependence are necessary for everyone, but for me and my issues they have been key in doing some very deep work mainly because my T has handled the transference almost flawlessly.

I have struggled with these feelings in a lot of relationships throughout my life. Looking at more deeply with my T and figuring out the reasons and pain underneath those feelings are what has ultimately freed me from them and given back control of my life.

So I don't think that everyone needs to have this happen in therapy, but for those for whom it does happen, working through it, even if that means being dependent on your T for awhile (something I hated and struggled against for a long time) I think is the surest path to healing.

And OW, that is an extremely gracious thing for you to say with what you're facing right now. Thank you.
AG

PL,
I am glad that your session went well yesterday. I so understand not being able to let down your guard in front of everyone, again I always had to be the strong one in my family too even though I was the youngest and considerably younger than my siblings at that. Everything was already so dysfunctional by the time I came along the only role I could assume was the strong one (and the clown of course). I often had to carry my mother’s emotions and she was unable to contain mine. My T has been ever patient and persistent in helping me see that SHE is different than my mother and by allowing myself to work through the transference feelings it has forced me to see the difference and to re-experience my emotions and needs in the right way and within the symbolic embrace and security of my attachment to my T. It is an amazing process.

It sounds like you are really developing a solid and trusting relationship with your T. That is highly important in the out working of your therapy. To allow yourself to experience the attachment you never had allows your brain to make vital connections that were never made in infancy so that we ultimately stop repeating the same behavior patterns we otherwise tend to make in our relationships throughout our life.

I know about those sessions when you feel like you are finally on a roll and they have to end. I’ve had two hour sessions before and that is almost enough time to get on a roll and cover enough things sufficiently. But there is __always__ more it seems. I never run out of things to work on.

I seen my T twice again this week and will see her again on the 31st. I am really looking forward to that already. I still think AG needs to get to work on that time machine and fast forward all of us into the day of our next appt. I know she’s trying. I see her looking up from the pile of scrap metal, components and wires to wipe the grease off her face.
JM

quote:

I'm very envious of those who get to work through their transference issues with their Ts. It seems like a very positive experience to me.

OW,
It has been a wonderful positive experience for me. In fact I can say that all of the intense emotions, painful struggles, and humiliating exposure have been worth it. I've said it before and do believe there is another side of transference. Very much like AG's open hill covered meadow.

I also believe that all you've felt for your son's T can still be worked out perhaps with your own T. As you may count it a loss and grieve that loss, your T can help you cope with that loss and still identify where it all fits into your past experiences. It's not a lost cause.

I think you are very strong and courageous in your approach and I am glad that you joined our community.

quote:

the only role I could assume was the strong one (and the clown of course)

JM

I may frighten you, but you are scaring me to pieces!!! I think I must be your evil twin!

Another thing I am working on with my T is the feeling that I have to "perform." To be accepted. I've had a hard time with that in therapy because I have felt that I need to perform right for her. We finally had that discussion (it was a rough one), so I'm starting to see that is ok to show up to therapy without an agenda and just see where things go. She has a way of getting me to talk about something significant every time.

PL

OW

quote:

I think it has everything to do with attachment and dependence, especially if that was lacking in a person's childhood.

This statement just really hit home for me. I know that there was very little attachment in my childhood, and I was forced to be independant at a very young age. Now I find myself easily attaching to anyone who shows me some kindness or security.

This has made for some very bad relationship choices. Presently, my T and I have developed a good relationship. She wants me to work through my problems without becoming dependant on her. She wants me to think for myself, and learn. At first I was quite hurt by that, but I see how I need to work through my stuff and not become too dependant. Being independant for so long has made me become too dependant.

Kats

quote:

Another thing I am working on with my T is the feeling that I have to "perform." To be accepted. I've had a hard time with that in therapy because I have felt that I need to perform right for her.

PL,
Don't tell me that you performed for your family too. As well as being the clown that made __everybody__laugh, and from a very young age mind you, I was also a performer in other ways. My mother was always setting me up to sing and dance whenever people came over. But somewhere along the line I must have suffered a humiliating blow and would refuse to do that anymore, much to my mother's strong disapproval and sore disappointment.

So I have experienced a need to "perform" a little for my T, but not too much I don't think. Of course I love to make her laugh (especially of she is trying not to) and then I want to be the good client and do everything right. But I think that stuff eventually takes a back seat and you reveal who you really are behind the mask. Not that the humor and ability to perform is necessarily a bad thing, but it won't always be a distraction.

quote:

My mother was always setting me up to sing and dance whenever people came over.

Ok JM so now I am really creeped out! We must have lived parallel lives.

I have had the "performance" discussion with my T. I think that is why I get so anxious every time I go to therapy. The pressure that I put on myself to "do it right" is overwhelming.

quote:

But I think that stuff eventually takes a back seat and you reveal who you really are behind the mask.

It's nice to hear this. I know that I have allowed a tiny crack in my shield, and maybe more for my T than for anyone else. But I am allowing a few other people to peek inside just a little bit. (My husband for one) Wonder what I will look like when the whole shield falls down? Wonder if that will ever happen?

PL

I really don't mean to creep you out PL.

Well everyone, I did it, I took the plunge and... (sit down cause you're not going to beleive this)
...I called my T this morning. (Dead silence replaced by gasps and gufaws) I even asked for a call back just so that I can hear her voice. I know, I know, I should let her enjoy the holidays, but I'm needy. There is a reason I need to hear her voice though. She is traveling out of town and I just want a signal that she made it safely. Knowing my history, she will completely understand that fear if I tell her that is why I need to hear from her. Should only take a minute and I will feel fine.

The needy little girl.

quote:

Wonder what I will look like when the whole shield falls down? Wonder if that will ever happen?

The really interesting thing for me about ya'll conversation so far is that I really identify with what ya'll are saying - being the clown, performing, but also just never letting anyone "in." But I don't really know what _isn't_ that but _is_ me. Like, if someone asked me to "be myself" and I didn't do that, I don't know what I'd be.

It's actually more than a little scary to even think about.

quote:

Like, if someone asked me to "be myself" and I didn't do that, I don't know what I'd be.

I know the feeling. If I were to be "myself" around anyone, they would not recognize me. The "inside" me is so different from the "outside" me. I don't think I am really comfortable with either one.

JM - It all sounds completely understandable to me! (Of course that is from a nutty person! ) I have voice mails from my T saved from over a year ago that I listen to when I get sad or anxious. And I thought I was the clever one!

I decided that since I won't see her until the 31st, I am journaling every time I feel low and I will send it to her before I see her. Already I have written some pretty deep stuff. Hope I have the guts to mail it. It sorta makes me feel like I am talking to her and I can imagine the expression on her face, and some of her words. It helps to calm me down.

PL

Hi all...I'm in that state right now of feeling paralyzed or numb I guess. I've been reading today but haven't felt like posting.

@JM...I so understand you worrying about your T traveling and how uncertain it makes you feel until you know she's arrived safely. That's because she is your attachment figure (but you already know that I'm sure). And you are a little girl where she is concerned. In my case it's that my T is going for some surgery this week and it is making me feel very insecure and fearful. It's nothing life threatening but it feels very scary to me. I won't be seeing him this week because of it but he has committed to seeing me the following week. I hope he is able and feeling well enough to keep that appointment. He has told me I can call or email but do I want to bother him when he's not feeling well? I may email him just to know that he's okay. He has told me not to worry and there is no need to worry but, again, I feel like I'm 5 years old and worried about my caregiver going away.

@PL...I now have 4 VMs that I keep. Two are on my cell phone and I listen to them all the time. I especially love love when he says my name. I may follow your lead and go journal all these emotions I'm feeling and perhaps talk to him about it when I see him next time.

TN

Oh my, saving vm's... I have been saving her vm's and calling her vm and hanging up for nearly 2 years. When I need to hear her voice now and don't need her to call me back I listen to the recording she made for me before she left for her 3 week vacation in October. That is very soothing.(Anyone remember _that_ time period? )

Since then I have asked permission to record our sessions because I was having difficulty remembering things. She was all for it and I find that extremely useful. I am surprised at how much I don't really retain in session. It must be too much for me to take in that it doesn't permeate with me. But when I listen to our sessions later I find myself saying "Wow, I forgot she said that or I didn't catch that before." It is very helpful and not to mention soothing for me to listen to it again(and again and again and again)later. Oh and when she says my name, yeah I love it. I _so_ get that.

quote:

Like, if someone asked me to "be myself" and I didn't do that, I don't know what I'd be.

Wynne, I'm not sure if I really do either. This little child still seems to be dominating so much of my thoughts and behavior lately I don't know that I can see beyond that quite yet. So when she fully integrates I don't know what that will look like. But humor is a big part of who I am. It is actually one of the more positive coping mechanisms I've employed in a healthy way.

My journaling has pretty much transformed into a series of letters and updates to my T and I will often read them to her at the beginning of session. I'm a glutton for misery.

It's interesting how we all seem to cope so similarly don't you think? Have I said how much I love this community!

Love the avatar TN! I can see how meaningful that would be to you. Worrying about my T is classic transference. I worried about losing my mother for 28 years until I actually did lose her. So this fits my history and we will probably need to address that but where to fit it into an already jam packed session, I don't know. We'll put it on the ever growing queue. And judging by the size of that, I'll be in therapy for the rest of my life. And TN, I am sure that your T having surgery would create some intense feelings of insecurity and fear for you as well. It feels like a such a risk and we can't risk losing them. Though I know that we won't, but at least for me that is what my fears are attached to. An impending fear of loss, of losing someone I _love_ and something very bad happening was played over and over in my childhood. As for calling or emailing your T after his surgery look at it this way, the only way he is going to get your messages will be when _he_ decides to check in. So you won't be "bothering him". It will be _his_ choice when he is up to replying. (unless he happens to have his cell phone on him when you call and it goes off while he is in surgery and he wakes up out of anesthesia to answer it)Seriously though, I hope that takes the burden off from you a little. When I confirmed her availability over the holiday she said she wouldn't be checking messages every day, but will be happy to call me back when _she_ makes time to do that. And I had to repeate that "So it will be your choice when you do and I won't be disrupting your holiday." She said "Right." I swear I am like a five year old.

quote:

And TN, I am sure that your T having surgery would create some intense feelings of insecurity and fear for you as well. It feels like a such a risk and we can't risk losing them. Though I know that we won't, but at least for me that is what my fears are attached to. An impending fear of loss, of losing someone I _love_ and something very bad happening was played over and over in my childhood.

Yes, that's it. That fear is always with me... of losing the people who are important to me, which leads into that fear of abandonment that I can't seem to shake. My T does reassure me and he has been doing it more and more lately as he has come to understand what is behind my need for it. But the whole surgery thing was just an unexpected twist to my fears. And thanks for giving me a chuckle about his taking the cell phone into surgery and waking up to take my call You are right. I can leave a message or send the email and it will be up to him to decide when and whether to answer me. I'm one of those people who is always afraid to "bother" someone because they will be annoyed with me and I will lose them. Irrational...I know.

I think it's awesome that you can tape your sessions. So many times I say to myself... gee I wish I had that session on tape so I can remember everything he told me and maybe have a better chance of it penetrating my stubborn brain. It's like he tells me things and I just can't seem to believe or accept it. Especially if it's something good or nice. Sometimes I convince myself that he "really" didn't say that or that I dreamed it or imagined it. It would be nice to be able to listen to it on tape over and over again. And yes I remember when your T gave you that recording to comfort you while she was gone. That was a wonderful thing to do for you. I hope you know how much she has shown her care for you.

TN

quote:

I'm one of those people who is always afraid to "bother" someone because they will be annoyed with me and I will lose them. Irrational...I know.

No, not irrational at all! Well, I hope it isn't because that is how I feel too. I never realized how fearful I was of losing people or being abandoned until I had some pretty big losses in my family. Now in therapy, it has become very obvious to me that I attach to people because of my fear of losing them. So therefore, I have a HUGE attachment to my T. The thought of bothering her, or disappointing her, or hurting her feelings is almost more than I can stand. She reassures me all the time that this won't happen, but my brain doesn't believe it yet.

I also think that taping your sessions is a great idea JM. Sometimes my T will ask me, "So what did you take away from our last session?" Then I get nervous because I'm thinking, "What did we talk about in our last session? It was only 2 days ago and I can't remember." She then reminds me of something, and it clicks. I just thought my memory was shot to hell! I think if Itaped them though, I would spend every moment of every day listening to them just to hear the softness and compassion in her voice. I'm so obsessed with her already, that I really wouldn't get anything else done! Probably good for me to just stick to the 4 VMs that I have.

TN- I have this image of a man in surgery picking up the cell phone and telling his Dr. "I HAVE to answer it! It's one of my clients!" Then all of the medical people have to stand around twiddling their thumbs while the T reassures the client that all is ok. Even though that wouldn't happen, it kinda gives you a good feeling to realize that our T's give up a lot to take good care of us. I am constantly amazed that people like my T (and all of yours) exist. Lucky for us!

PL

So, I'm wondering. I don't get the "they're gonna leave me" thing, really. I get the "they're gonna think I'm dumb and horrid and just hang out with me/treat me out of pity" thing. And -that's- easy to take care of, you just have to be perfect. All the time. With everything.

Good thing I'm not, I don't know. insecure.

Wynne

So for me, it is that I have told her things that I don't even want to admit to myself. Things that I have a lot of shame and guilt for. And I have trusted her to hear these things and not judge me for them, but to help me understand them and stop feeling the shame and the guilt. The thought that she would leave me (like some people in my life have before), is very real. Then where would I be? She would have validated the insecure feelings that I have about myself and then I probably would not take the risk to trust anyone again. It really is hard to explain. I can't even explain the whole transference thing, except that it is a love unlike any other. I'm still trying to figure it out!

PL

For me it takes in a multiplicity of traumatic events and unmet needs. I often feel myself as an infant crying for my mother just to feel held and loved and to not get that need fulfilled enough is painful abandonment. To fear the chaos and violence of everything going on around me with no one stepping in to protect me also leaves me with a sense of abandonment. All I knew was that no one would or could stick around enough. love me enough to protect me from the circumstances I was faced with from a very young age. As hard as I know my mother tried to love me enough she was not capable of it. Why would my T be any better than my mother, the one person in this world who is supposed to love me enough and even made me think she loved me enough when in reality she failed me greatly. of course I fear that my T will abandon me. My mother couldn't contain my pain, I had to do that on my own and carry hers simultaneously. That is what I learned and that is the filter I placed over all of my relationships. Some of which in turn validated my negative beliefs too. However the T realtionship is different, but it's a long long learning process to realize that and to finally believe that.

I hope that helps esplain things a little.

Wynne,
For me that fear was really strong for two reasons; my father actually did abandon me. I didn't see him from the age of 11 until I went to his deathbed when I was 40 years old.

But the other reason, and I believe the much stronger one, was that my father told me over and over that I was responsible for the abuse, that I was evil and if I told anyone about it, they would have nothing to do with me. OK, now its obvious that it was a ploy to get me to keep my mouth shut, but it was a huge amount of hard work to dig out my belief that I was genuinely in my essence evil and repulsive, so that if I let anyone REALLY know me, of course they would leave, because who wouldn't have been repelled by me? So there I was opening up to my T and letting him know more about me and at a deeper level than I had ever let anyone know. And the whole time my limbic system SCREAMED at me that what I was doing was really dangerous and of course, in the end, I would be left. There is a reason that I am so grateful to my T for his patience with my fear and his constant superhuman stream of reassurance. He kept saying it until I could hear it.

And I just had the most amazing realization. I started this post by saying "the fear was strong," instead of is strong. I mean, how cool is that.

AG

quote:

And I just had the most amazing realization. I started this post by saying "the fear was strong, instead of is strong. I mean, how cool is that.

An epiphany everyone. I stand and proudly applaud.

Darn, I should have waited until January 6th!

h/t to True North.

(Thanks JM! I always appreciate your encouragement!)

PL, Your trust in your T sounds really strong, and I certainly can understand why you'd worry about losing something that important. It's so great that Ts are there for us in this, too.

AG, that's awesome. I only just realized that I go all present-tense when I'm talking about living with my dad and being scared and all that. I can imagine a past-tense way of being, and it's really cool that you're there.

HB, I feel like more like a need to perform, and less a worry of being a nuisance. But I can see it being really similar.

Wynne

I have had that talk with my T about wanting to "perform" in therapy. I feel a strong need to "do it right." She just gave me a book to read - Perfect Women (sorry if I am repeating myself) which talks about the need to perform. And, BTW the fact that the book belongs to her, makes me love reading it all the more. Every time I turn a page, I can imagine that she touched the book. Am I cracked or what? I guess it is sort of like having her here with me.

PL

Hummingbird,
I know that for me the fear of being a nuisance was because it was always about my father's needs, and to a certain extent my mother's, my needs weren't important. When that is true, you get treated in such a way that when you make a need known, you will get some form of negative feedback. But the attachment is necessary to your survival and as a child you will protect it at all costs. So if something you do invokes a negative response, you learn to avoid it pronto.

So, your needs become something you must ignore in order to preserve your attachment. But how do you learn to ignore something so natural and insistent as your own needs? You get really scared of them. Nothing makes us avoid like fear. After doing that for years, even asking for the simplest things will invoke that response and make us feel like we're being a nuisance.

Essentially, we learned a lie long ago, that our needs were not legitimate, and we didn't deserve to have them attended to. Of course, it feels like we're going to get in trouble for expressing them. We probably did.

There's also an element of control involved in terms of the wanting to perform. If we're just good enough, maybe we can get what we need. Maybe if I could just fulfill all my parents needs (impossible though it may have been for the child that I was), maybe, just maybe, they would actually attend to mine. We believe we can only keep a relationship is we attend to the other person's needs and don't bug them.

It's an insidious lie but one that many people believe and have to fight hard to break. And then it still sneaks up on you.

And PL, I don't think you're cracked at all. My T gives me his business card with my next appt time on the back at the end of each session and sometimes I pick it up and run my fingers over where he wrote because I know he touched it. I feel like such a lovesick idiot sometimes. But this is primitive intense stuff. So if you are cracked you're hanging with the right crackpots.

AG

I tried anything and everything to avoid having to ask my parents for something. It seemed like such a burden to them to give it to me or at least inconvenient. So I always felt guilty for needing things and for making my parents miserable when I had to get it from them. This is the root of my fear of bugging my T too much and why it is so hard for me to ask for anything from anyone. Especially attention, that was the hardest thing to get from either of my parents, so I grew up believing it was wrong to want it. My core self still believes these things even though my higher brain functions know this isn't the truth. Like AG mentioned it takes an awful lot of repetition of a positive experience before it completely sinks in and changes you. Problem is, it is so hard for me to even ask for the repetition.

quote:

Every time I turn a page, I can imagine that she touched the book. Am I cracked or what? I guess it is sort of like having her here with me.

Oh my THAt is cracked PL! I never heard of anything like that.(She says with her fingers crossed behind her back. Of course I am kidding. I borrowed one of my T's books and felt the same way. She borrowed my General Theory of Love book and I had to touch every page again just due to the thought of it having been in her hands and haviing been all the way to Israel and back was pretty cool to think about too.

quote:

My T gives me his business card with my next appt time on the back at the end of each session and sometimes I pick it up and run my fingers over where he wrote because I know he touched it. I feel like such a lovesick idiot sometimes. But this is primitive intense stuff. So if you are cracked you're hanging with the right crackpots.

Yeah, I never do that either. And I do not keep every one of her business cards either. Lovesick, never heard of it. (picks up T's used coffee mug and slips it into her pocket as she leaves session) Not me no way no how. (insert insane looking emoticon here)

Awesome. Not the only one.

quote:

I tried anything and everything to avoid having to ask my parents for something. It seemed like such a burden to them to give it to me or at least inconvenient. So I always felt guilty for needing things and for making my parents miserable when I had to get it from them. This is the root of my fear of bugging my T too much and why it is so hard for me to ask for anything from anyone. Especially attention, that was the hardest thing to get from either of my parents, so I grew up believing it was wrong to want it.

River, I feel like I get this, though a little different - I was just like, b'd*mned if I'm gonna ask for something and thus show weakness and thus let them/him get power over me.

...which I just realized is A Bit Off.

Wynne

I can soo........ understand that. Ever since I was a little kid, I always have done things myself because I didn't want to ask for help. That would be a weakness, and then someone would have power over me. That is also why I don't show my emotions to anyone. That is why I don't let someone whom I respect, know that they have hurt me. (If I don't like or respect them,I have no problem telling them off!) I couldn't let anyone "get" to me. That would mean that I would have to let down my shield, let someone in, let someone be stronger than me. I can't stand being needy. So I just don't ask. I have a really hard time asking my T for anything, but I know she is trying to get me to ask her. Maybe, little by little.

AG - Thanks for letting me join the "crackpot" club! It is nice to be in good company.

PL

quote:

Originally posted by Attachment Girl:
Essentially, we learned a lie long ago, that our needs were not legitimate, and we didn't deserve to have them attended to. Of course, it feels like we're going to get in trouble for expressing them. We probably did.
AG

I was trying to post and explain how I feel about asking for what I need, but this says it better than I could.

I never ask for what I need. I worry too much about how the other person will respond. What if they say no? What if they think I'm helpless and hopeless for having to ask? What if they get sick of me and just go away?

JM - you crack me up! (Or maybe I am already cracked.)

quote:

Or maybe I am already cracked.

YeeHaa! OW Another member of the "crackpot" club! Glad you are joining us.

Asking for what we need sure is difficult, isn't it? I'm having trouble seeing the "end of the tunnel," but apparently there is one. I hope that the more I let my T "in," and the more I believe that she won't leave me, the closer I will come to that peaceful place. Sometimes I think I'll never get there, but many of the things people have posted here gives me hope.

PL

quote:

Another member of the "crackpot" club! Glad you are joining us.

PL, Does this mean we get more t-shirts?

Singing in tune of old Dr. Pepper commercial "I'm A Pepper" (this seriously dates me):

"I'm a crackpot, she's a crackpot, he's a crackpot, we're all crakpots, wouldn't you like to be a crackpot too?"

HB,
I am not in my best state of mind latley but I am going to try to answer. I know I have an answer, I am just not sure how well I can articulate lately. So let me see if my brain will cooperate.

Basically we do this as second nature and it is hard for us to realize when we are doing it, but we learn to become attuned to it by noticing the feelings we have when doing it. For instance when we are trying to perform there is often a performance anxiety that comes with that or maybe some other feeling that we push aside like "if I don't do this then(enter negative feeling/belief here), but it's there and you have to allow yourslef to notice that and that is how you will be able to tell the difference. You learn when it feels good for you to do for others and when it doesn't. I think it will become less and less about your fear of rejection and abandonment as you work through those seperately. But we all have little issues and some of these will not disappear completely. That is when our awareness allows us to manage them.

I hope this makes more sense than what it seems to. But to be honest it is a little confusing and it is not as simplistic as I may have made it sound. Like you just become aware. It takes effort to notice and it is not always easy and it gets better with practice. Its about being attuned to your feelings and body and listening to what it tells you. Your T can help you do that.

Anyway, I better stop now before I have everybody saying "huh??"

Hopefully someone else can come and explain better. I'm going back into my little corner again.
JM

JM,
I think that was a really good explanation for something that is really difficult to explain. I think your advice to pay attention to your emotions and body are really good ones.

Hummingbird,
I agree with JM, this is one of those tricky things. This behavior is so pervasive that it takes a lot of time, and growth in a lot of areas to start to get a handle on it.

I love the way that you said that in taking care of others' needs you are taking care of your needs. Which is true because right now, it may be that the only way you can feel secure is by feeling like you're performing correctly.

This issue has a LOT to do with boundaries. I was complaining to my T once in a session how sick to death I was of working on my issues and how much time and energy it was sucking up. Then I said, I sometimes wonder what I could be doing if I had that time and energy for other things. I think my T had been waiting for that one for a long time. He said that was a really good question. What could I be doing with my family, with my friends, for myself?

Where it got interesting was my reaction. What I heard was "you've been here long enough, and it's really time you were better and left. Stop whining and just get on with it. (That last sentence is pure mom.)" I told my T it felt like that's what I heard and he told me that I was so scared to think of my own needs that when he tried to be encouraging I heard it as condemnation. I spent a number of terrified weeks trying to think about what I wanted. Everytime I tried to think of it I got scared. Much later when I was in a much better place, I went in for a session and told my T I had actually felt a little lost that week because I WASN'T dealing with a crisis. He told me that for so long there had been so many people within my boundaries that there was no room to figure out what I wanted. But now that I had boundaries in place, it was ok to take my time and figure that out. We tend to approach that as trying to think about what we want and then going to do it But in reality, you have to try things and then pay attention to how you're feeling about doing them.

One of the biggest problems to overcome is that we often feel guilty when we think of our own needs. I know I struggled with a very deep sense of "how can I trust that I'm not being selfish?" I think that's where the relationship with our T is SO important. By living out loud in front of them, you have someone to give you feedback and to validate when your needs are reasonable and proper. Part of the re-wiring that takes place in forming a secure attachment is what should have been done when we were kids. Learning that your needs were legitimate, that you mattered enough that your needs would be met, and there was nothing unreasonable about getting your needs met.

I hope this was coherent. There was so much to say, because again, I think this is an issue that is very interwoven throughout all the issues that its like picking out a single thread from a tapestry. Its also not something you solve by understanding it, you learn it by experiencing it in the relationship with your T. Which tends to be really confusing while you're going through it. I really think one of the secrets of successful therapy is the ability to tolerate feeling confused and staying with the confusion until it clears up. Once you understand it, it feels like "wow, how did I ever not get that?" To quote my T, "just because it's simple, doesn't mean it's easy." Hope some of this helps.

AG

Wow, AG What a great explanation. I am so knee deep in the middle of all of this. You have given me a lot to think and ponder about. Sometimes so many thoughts and feelings rush into my head that I don't know which one to pick out first. I know that saying more of this out loud to my T will help me sort it out. Thanks for giving me one more nudge.

PL

quote:

"I'm a crackpot, she's a crackpot, he's a crackpot, we're all crakpots, wouldn't you like to be a crackpot too?

JM

If you are dating yourself, then I'm in those dates too! Thanks for giving me a really good belly laugh. (And my belly could afford that!)
And yes, T-shirts for everyone!

PL

quote:

you have to try things and then pay attention to how you're feeling about doing them.

This was the key for me in discerning between what I needed, what I thought I needed, what I was actually getting and if that was what I really needed.

What helped me understand was another "T-ism". T told me at the end of the day to think the day over and pay attention to the things that I really enjoyed and felt good about and the things I really didn't like or felt bad about. She said to then try to consciously move toward the things that felt good and move away from the things that felt bad. Yes, simplistic sounding I know but don't make me repeat AG's T's T-ism OK? (There must be a whole class they have to take on how to explain all of this stuff to clients in way that will stick. I am envisioning a whole line of T-shirts we could sell online....)

quote:

AG's T's T-ism

I'm scared because I understood that.

But a line of T-shirts, hmmmm....

quote:

i discovered that it is vulnerability that scares me so much.

HB
I think I have this conversation every session with my T. It affects me in every part of my life. With every relationship I have, even with my husband. I am "scared to death" to open myself up and let someone in. I am only just letting my T in and I have been seeing her for 2 yrs. And asking anyone for anything that fulfills my needs - puts me in a state of panic! So, I just portray myself as someone who has it all together and has no needs. My insides definitely do not match my outside. And now my insides are screaming to get out and I am scared.

I guess we can slosh through it together.

Merry Christmas
PL

quote:

And asking anyone for anything that fulfills my needs - puts me in a state of panic! So, I just portray myself as someone who has it all together and has no needs. My insides definitely do not match my outside. And now my insides are screaming to get out and I am scared.

Hmmm... (followed by one long thought process) I do this so well that I don't even realize I'm doing it. I have been severely depressed for months but when you spend your time making people laugh or living a big facade, most people really can't see anything different. I am finding out I have my T fooled pretty good thinking that I am doing better than I actually am. I don't get that. How does she not know? I thought I have been very forthcoming with her, but when I talked to her yesterday she was taken by surprise when I told her how completely nonfunctioning I have been for several weeks now. She's like "I've been aware that you've experienced ebbs and flows but I didn't know it was this bad." I think I learned to say just enough to people to satisfy their inclination that "yes, something is wrong," but not allow them to see the true depth of my pain and misery so I wouldn't retain the focus of toomuch attention. I thought I was communicating with my T better than that though. That's the weird part and almost scary. I think I am afraid to sound weak, if people only knew how bad I really feel inside they would shake their heads, they couldn't contain it. I'm afraid if they knew I really would be wearing a white coat.

Yesterday I talked with 2 friends and they both said something similar, "I can see that you seem sad or down sometimes but then you start laughing and saying funny things and I think 'Oh, she's fine.'" No matter how hard I try I can't seem to communicate what I need to. I always wrap it up so neatly in a pretty little package with ribbons and bows that it's hard for people to understand. Even my T. And I'm not mad at her for that. I completely acknowledge that it is 'what I do' though I wish I didn't.

I attempted suicide when I was 15 years old. Before and after I tried to get people to hear me. I tried to communicate yet I was afraid to speak up. It felt like someone always had their hand over my mouth. What a conflict that has always been. And I also learned to speak very softly. Some people can't hear me and most people won't ask for me to speak up and so it's easy to get ignored when you do try to speak. It's easy to slip back into a corner when no one can you hear you anyway. Until I say something funny and have a room filled with laughter which reinforces my need to make people laugh, and keeps the attention away from the pain I am really feeling. I guess I learned that's what people really want so that's what I do. That's waht people expect from me. Yes they notice I seem sad, "but give her a minute she'll snap out of it." That's the biggest joke of all and it isn't even funny.

JM

quote:

Yesterday I talked with 2 friends and they both said something similar, "I can see that you seem sad or down sometimes but then you start laughing and saying funny things and I think 'Oh, she's fine.'" No matter how hard I try I can't seem to communicate what I need to. I always wrap it up so neatly in a pretty little package with ribbons and bows that it's hard for people to understand. Even my T. And I'm not mad at her for that. I completely acknowledge that it is 'what I do' though I wish I didn't.

JM, I also think that people who care about us _want_ to think that we're okay, that everything's okay, so they take indicators that we can throw out there - what Tfella called for me "mixed messages" - and see mostly the ones they want. Or they weight them all equally, the indicators of good and those of not-good, when in fact the indicators of good are just our ways of lightening up the dark we're in.

The one blogger I really admire for how she manages to light up the dark with humor while still clearly expressing how very bad stuff is is "Secret Life of a Manic Depressive". I started reading her blog at (what is now) the bottom of Page 2. Warning: blog uses profanity, describes her situation (which is Not Awesome) in a fair bit of detail, and ...well, and she's also what I think is hysterically funny. But she's what I thought of, JM, when you talked about using humor and people not getting that you weren't okay. 'Cause I seem to do that, too. And she does it, but it's clear when she's not okay.

Anyways. I just wanted to add that I, and we, hear you. And we're listening.

quote:

I also think that people who care about us _want_ to think that we're okay,

I know that's true and I also think I want to beleive I'm ok. This is something I do to myself more than to other people. Somehow I believe if they really knew how bad things were they'd have to leave or I'd suddenly be the center of attention and that makes me uncomfortable. But if I becpme the center of attention by making people laugh just long enough that they feel it's safe enough to look the other way again, then I can go back into hiding. Sounds confusing when I say it, and I know it is much more complex than my explanation acknowledges. Maybe it's just jibberish. I'm not even sure.

JM, could it also be a little of "fake it until you make it" kind of thinking? If I act happy and make others happy then maybe I will BE happy? I know that this works for some things but unfortunately it is not very effective on depression.

Growing up I had to perfect becoming invisible in order to survive. It was my only protection from my sister's abuse. Later it was my protection from making an ass out of myself through high school and college. Now I use it for a "nothing gained than nothing to lose" kind of rational. I have forced myself out of my shell in attempts to be social and make friends but it not me. It is a me that I think people will be more comfortable with and will like more than the real me. Even with my good friends I try to not show my sadness and negativity all of the time - I am so afraid that they will get sick of me and stop wanting to be around me. I work hard to focus on them and their "stuff" and only reveal my stuff to the same level as theirs. Very few people know I am in therapy and even fewer have been in therapy themselves and so most people I am friends with have no idea what therapy is really like - how hard it is.

Managing all of this takes an incredible amount of energy and leaves me so exhausted that sometimes I would rather just be alone so that I can just be myself. I live in a catch-22: I desperately want friends and to not be lonely but in order to maintain friendships I exhaust myself hiding half of who I am so then it feels easier to be alone. Sucks, don't it? A nice perfect trap of my own creation that keeps me alone, invisible, and miserable.

I think most of us here are excellent at this - being someone outside that we are not inside. It is how we survived growing up. It is how we protect our softest most vulnerable parts now. I try to remember that everyone is afraid and are trying to protect themselves from pain too. They may not seem scared but they might just be good actors too. Our T's are literally pros at this: showing us a person on the outside that could be far from who they are on the inside. With all the hiding and pretending going on it is a very rare person indeed that has no fear to completely expose themselves to the world and live a fully authentic life. Sure, that may be our goal but I can only think of one person who has for the most part achieved this and you know what - I find him incredibly hard to talk to. He is one of my good friend's husbands and since he really doesn't care what anyone thinks of him he doesn't try to relate to other people much or work on his "people skills." I don't know if this makes since but not every authentic person is someone to whom people naturally love and gravitate towards. Some level of dysfunction can actually make us more understandable and relate-able to others.

Hmmm... well, I guess I am through rambling now. Reading over this post I see I started in one place and ended in quite another. Thank goodness I am not getting graded on this!

quote:

Somehow I believe if they really knew how bad things were they'd have to leave or I'd suddenly be the center of attention and that makes me uncomfortable. But if I becpme the center of attention by making people laugh just long enough that they feel it's safe enough to look the other way again, then I can go back into hiding.

JM
This is not the least bit confusing to me. It describes how I live my life! I think it is my responsibility to make people laugh. And I mean really laugh! And if I can make a joke about myself before someone else does, then I think I am safe. I feel pressured (and it is myself applying the pressure) at lunch time at work to entertain everyone. But in my head I am thinking, "If they only knew, they would never recognize the inner me." I'm afraid that I would be letting those around me down, if I were to outwardly show what is inside me. After all, why would they want to know or care what's in my head? My T would go crazy over that statement! Well, maybe not crazy, but at least disagree with me. She says that I have placed standards on myself that are really high, and that I don't place those standards on anyone else. I need to learn that it is ok for things to be "good enough."

It is not jibberish JM.

PL

quote:

I think I am afraid to sound weak

JM

So did you pull this one right out of my brain??!!! Oh yeah, I have to be strong! I couldn't let anyone see that I was weak, then I would become vulnerable and I would just crumble and die! Yep, my T and I are really working on this one. It is one of the scariest things for me though. I have always felt the need to be strong. Hence, the big, thick shield that surrounds me.

PL

Hi everyone, another basket case here. I just wanted to drop in and wish everyone a Merry Xmas!

I can relate to so many things I have read thus far in this thread..the performing for people sounds VERY familiar!

Hi SG
Merry Christmas to you too, and nice to meet you.

PL

Well I managed to get through my usual appt day w/o my T. I have to say it was a rough morning, but I took an early nap and was in quite a different mood afterwards. Instead of despondent I was a little more angry. I don't know about anyone else, but sometimes I find that anger can be a little more productive than being extremely sad. I experienced some flashbacks and because of what triggered them that's what made me angry. I hate feeling hostage to my past.

I hope everyone else is doing ok. I am sure there are a lot of emotions this time of year for many.

Take care all!
JM

*twitch* yeah, I personally am back at my FOO's place, JM, and ... yeah. words fail. I wish I could be somewhere that was all productive and angry-like. I fall into such a rut here... it's like I can't remember who I am, what I am, when I'm here. I'm just back to being that scared little kid. Like, I even start using the wrong tense when I talk about whether I'm living here or not, and all that. I hate it, and if I could get a bit more angry about it, I feel like I could move past it a little ... not easier, but maybe just work towards something more productively.

I'm so sorry that you couldn't see your T on your normal day. It seems like the time of year when we most need them, because it is that time of year, they can't be there.

Have I mentioned I <3 this forum, lately?

quote:

It seems like the time of year when we most need them, because it is that time of year, they can't be there.

That is so ho ho friggen ironic isn't it? Yes, we need them more than ever and they go merry freakin holidays on us. *snicker*

Anyway, I am sorry you are feeling trapped in a rut. I am glad you are able to keep in touch on forum though. I love it too.

In a rut? I guess it's like that. It's just hard to remember who I am when I'm here. All the professional life I live, all the things I've learned how to do since i've left, it's like it all goes away.

That's prolly crazy, but hey. This _is_ the 'basket case' thread.

quote:

That is so ho ho friggen ironic isn't it? Yes, we need them more than ever and they go merry freakin holidays on us. *snicker*

I love it.

That's not crazy at all. I think it's pretty amazing to think of all you had to overcome to get to where you are. Not that I know much of anything about you personally, but I'm just sepaking to what I pick up about you here.
Which is very likable.

Wynne,

I don't know if this is any consolation but after the holidays last year my T told me that while she was visiting her family her and her FOO fell right back into their old roles of relating to each other. Apparently there was some conflict but of course she didn't give me anymore details. But when you are with your FOO it is extremely hard to not be who you were when you were all still living together. Kids especially have firm roles in the family and they totally polarize. One is smart so the other is not-so-smart, one is sporty and one is bookish, one is accomplished and one is a failure and so on. These roles in our FOO's are so well defined and engraved into us that even T's get sucked in. This has made me feel better for getting sucked in myself. I am sorry that you have to be there though, since you seem very uncomfortable. Maybe next holiday you are just simply not available to come home or something. I've had to do that and even though it makes my mom very unhappy (which makes everyone else unhappy) I value my emotional health over my mom's fulfillment of her "perfect family" illusion.

Did you bring a good book to read? Sometimes I find that a really good excuse for not really talking much to anyone.

JM,

I am glad you got through the day OK. I am sorry that you have been struggling lately and have to wait to see you T again. I wish there was something out there that can soothe the ache but I haven't found anything equal to how it feels to be with T. Even though my T left me in good spirits the days still feel very long and my next session seems very far away.