Hi IHTS,

This is another story which is making me more angry than I am able to thoroughly describe right now! But I do want to say how deeply sorry I am to hear you have been through this.

quote:

Maybe none of it is my fault, after all she is the one with the authority here.

Can I just reinforce this a hundred times over? I am big on people taking personal responsibility for stuff, but this is absolutely an instance when her PROFESSIONAL RESPONSIBILITY was to look after the boundaries this situation, which you were personally unable to look after yourself. This makes me wild.

I am really glad you got so much healing from her - the other day I read an earlier post of yours which describes this, and I know she did a LOT that was great for you. What you describe above was NOT great at all. She's lost her ability to be professional about the relationship and it's really damaging. I am particularly horrified that she asked you to keep secrets for her. And now all the support you get from your social circle is hooked up in this mess as well. It's appalling.

I hope you can find good, strong support from other sources (do you have a new therapist?) so that you can a) keep healing and b) find ways to stay away from her.

Please take care, and please remember that you are NOT to blame here - you are totally entitled to your anger, your healing and support.

J

Wow. Yes, everything Jones said.

How completely wrong and unprofessional of your T. She took advantage of your vulnerability, and is trying to backpedal by throwing a boundary at you. She was putting her own needs before yours when SHE was unable to keep the boundaries. That is HER JOB -NOT YOURS! The truth is that we would all feel special to be invited into our T's lives the way you were - you were in a vulnerable position.
I do hope you can find other places to get the support you need and deserve.

IHTS,
I wish to add my voice to those telling you that this situation is in NO way your responsibility. In a theraputic relationship the responsibility for the boundaries falls squarely and completely on the T. She should never have allowed a personal relationship with you to form, and even worse, once she did, she should have helped you find another therapist. Once she welcomed you into her home and her circle of friends, therapy ended.

So now you find yourself in a relationship that is supposed to be about your needs, with clear boundaries that keep you safe, the same as you should have been able to expect from your parents. But instead, you have changing boundaries, and inconsistencies and her needs mixed up with yours. And just like the child you were, you're taking all the blame on yourself to retain your "good" therapist. I am especially concerned about the secrecy. A very damaging part of most types of abuse is the admonition by the abuser to not speak of what is going on, which makes the victim feel special, but also like they're "choosing" to do something wrong.

I can not imagine how heartbreaking this would be, especially because of how much good she has done you in the past and its obviously a very close relationship because you've spent the last two Christmas with her, but the truth is that this relationship has become abusive. I'm sorry I don't remember your background all that well, but if there was any kind of abuse in your background, then on some level this is probably a re-enactment.

You mentioned that you've seen her do this to other people, are you talking about other patients? Don't get me wrong, I'm sure she's well intentioned and cares about you but there are really good reasons why those boundaries are supposed to be in place and her believing that she's above that is really scary. You may not be the only patient she's hurting. I honestly believe she should be reported to whatever professional organization she is a member of but I can only imagine how it would make you feel to do that.

I do believe however, that in order for you to heal, you need to find another therapist who can work with you to heal from this. And it's important for you to talk about what happened and how you're feeling about it. The harmful results of personal relationships between patients and therapists is well documented, and you will need help to heal. I think that it is important to end the relationship with this woman and I would urge her to seek out supervision and/or consultation. If you feel like you can't end the relationship (I'm not sure I would be strong enough to do so if I were in your shoes) do you think she would be willing to go to counseling with you?

The only reason I'm not screaming out in fury is that I know how very significant this relationship is to you, but you have been betrayed. You're angry, you're guilty and you feel like a failure when you only did what you were supposed to do. Go in willing to do the work to heal and you trusted someone whose main responsibility is to be trustworthy. This is the total opposite of what she was supposed to provide.

AG

Thank you Jones, Seablue, and AG.

Ahh..the whole thing is so confusing.

I hear you all that I am not to blame.
Part of me knows that is true. The other part, the part connected with her does not know it. That is the part saying I was wrong, I pulled her into it, I asked for her support and wanted it all.....I feel so mixed up. Don't you think I am partly responsible for this???? That part of me says I am mostly responsible for this and I infect people around me. It gets pretty negative toward me.

The good thing in my current life is that I started seeing a P here in town over a year ago. I told her after I'd seen her for about a month. That was hard to do...but the part of me who recognizes how screwed up this all is was strong enough to tell her. The relationship with the old T was stressing me so much...and my new P was great about it. She is pretty solid with her boundaries and I made a specific point of asking her to be careful with me regarding boundaries, that I need someone strong to help me now. I told her today just how angry I am and she nodded, and didn't say I was wrong at all. But often in my head I lose the anger and guilt overwhelms me. I feel guilty for breaking trust with my T, for talking and for posting here. She often talked about our "real connection"...and I know all of this would kill her...if she knew I was saying this stuff. But I feel taht silence will only keep me feeling sick and staying sick. The part I don't understand about my T's email to me was where she said that I had hurt her...didn't I know how awful it has been for her?....that I was no longer listening to her and it has just been so much for her.
I did end up in ER Mar 18th....I was so suicidal and didn't understand why. It seemed to come out of nowhere, and I blamed it all on my stressful job and school.

I am now off work and school is finished for the year, and....I realize that underneath it all has been the awful perculating mess of this relationship. I really need it to be resolved. I'm worrying about what I will say/do when the old T contacts me again in teh "month or so" she stated in her email. I can't reread the email because I deleted it from my computer and iphone. I didn't want its presence in my life haunting me...but the memory of that email is sure still with me. Before I deleted it, I printed it and let my P read it. THen I ripped it up and threw the paper pieces out.

I can't thank you enough for your kind words and support. I hear your anger for me and that lets me feel less alone and less wrong. This has been a long awful time.

( AG: Yes, I did have abuse in my past, it was sexual abuse. It was my grandfather when I was very little. He was chairman of the deacons board and no one would have believed he would do that to a child. I found out during my early therapy years that he also abused my mom and trapped my aunt in the car and forced her to kiss him when she was an adult! He was pretty sick. I didn't remember much of it for many years, and it has taken a lot of therapy to get to the place where I don't freak out when I talk about it. I have a legal proceeding coming up in May that I put in process against him even though he has already died....my old T said she would go to it with me for support and I still want that support but..... I guess i can do it on my own. The kid in me is crying a lot as I type this)

The other thing I did to try and give myself support with getting away from her is I told my brother about it( gee....I feel terrible, I still like her so much! If it wasn't for her I know I would be dead now....I have to give her credit for saving my life and giving me what I needed to begin getting better which was a lot of knowledge and support). I have some very different parts that make up me....one part is professional, one part is very young dependent, vulnerable and still doesn't know how the world works. Ahh...and I think there are more distinct parts to me that are hard to get out of once I am them. This is where teh disconnects are and dissociation comes in.

My brother has called me nearly everyday for almost 2 weeks now trying to keep our connection open and help me through this time. I got the email on Mar 19 so expect to hear from her again in about 2 weeks.

She also knows I come to this website...so posting here has taken some guts to do....

IHTS

Jones.......I just reread your reply above.

Thank you...

It is helping me let go of the guilt tonight.

AG.....betrayed...that describes it in just one word.

quote:

Don't you think I am partly responsible for this???? That part of me says I am mostly responsible for this and I infect people around me. It gets pretty negative toward me.

Hi IHTS,

No, categorically I do not think you are partly responsible. If you were an alcoholic and went to a treatment programme to get help, and they offered you alcohol, they would be 100% responsible for putting you in harm's way when you were actively seeking safety. You came to her needing help with relationship safety and she gave you the opposite.

By confusing the boundaries of the relationship your t has made it impossible for you to know what you can and can't have from that relationship. She's made it impossible for you to figure out what are your feelings and responsibilities and what are hers. Because (against all professional guidelines) she did not protect herself or you in this situation (and remember that that is what she is trained, authorised and paid to do) she's got triggered and burnt out and whatever, and is trying to hold you responsible for her feelings!! Make no mistake, what she's struggling with now are her OWN limitations, her own problems, and they were waiting for her with or without you.

More importantly, for you, these are enormously stressful and unsafe relationship conditions for anyone trying to recover from abuse. I am glad you are seeing how much it's been affecting you, because that knowledge will do a lot to help protect you. And because it would be awful for you to believe work & school are more problematic for you than they really are.

One more thing - it sounded like you did genuinely important and useful work towards recovery with this t. YOU did that work, albeit with her help, but because it was yours to do and you did it I believe that it won't ultimately be lost to you.

((((((Jones))))))))

IHTS, WHAT. SHE. SAID.

I am sorry about the recognition of betrayal, that must hurt on a very deep level. I am SO glad that you are speaking out and seeking support. Your strength and courage in this situation are mind-blowing.

Hi IHTS. I want you to know that a lot of your story resonates with me... I once entered into a mentor-mentee relationship with someone (not a t, but still, someone who was supposed to be there to help me)... and I did get a lot of help from her, but it also turned very unhealthy over time. I too was struggling with my sexuality and while she was married, our relationship did eventually turn sexual. It was very intense and I was pretty young... young and very vulnerable.

I've talked recently on here about how I'm just now starting to touch on the guilt/grief/issues surrounding this experience. I't so hard and this:

quote:

Part of me knows that is true. The other part, the part connected with her does not know it. That is the part saying I was wrong, I pulled her into it, I asked for her support and wanted it all.....I feel so mixed up. Don't you think I am partly responsible for this???? That part of me says I am mostly responsible for this and I infect people around me. It gets pretty negative toward me.

is something that I could have written myself. ((((IHTS)))) I wish I could help you here but I'm struggling with this too much right now. I feel like I was the one that pulled her into it... that I just needed too much... that her life was going just fine until I came into the picture...etc etc etc. It's hard though because I was so vulnerable... but I was so manipulative too.

quote:

I feel terrible, I still like her so much! If it wasn't for her I know I would be dead now....I have to give her credit for saving my life and giving me what I needed to begin getting better which was a lot of knowledge and support

Oh I so get this. I sooooooo get this. I would have killed myself if I hadn't met her.

And I wish that I had words to help you... reassuring words like the others do... but I don't because of where I am. I just want you to know that i feel your pain in a unique way.

-CT

i feel like my out loud words have pushed me off the safe edge of the world and i am hanging over an empty hole


it was standing back enough to let my observing adult part see the damage.........that's what got my voice pissed off enough to TALK OUT LOUD ,TO THROW MY RAGE OUT THERE .
I know i will either crash or find wings to land

CT......I'm sorry to hear you too.....
What is this that happens to those of us who are most vulnerable?...it is like trauma on top of trauma.

I think it all boils down to unmet childhood needs and not being prepared to protect ourselves or live a an adult way in our integrity in this world, we were/are wide open to being victimized ...AND OUR NEEDS ARE NOT TO BLAME, they are a basic part of being human and being alive. I guess that means we are not to blame either.
It seems pretty obvious that...every single one of us is emotionally injured and has these needs to some extent. gee....

I hope you are ok tonight. Thank you for speaking....i know i am not alone now in this and neither are you.

Wooops.....tried to quote you Jones but it didn't work. I'll try again here...

quote:

No, categorically I do not think you are partly responsible. If you were an alcoholic and went to a treatment programme to get help, and they offered you alcohol, they would be 100% responsible for putting you in harm's way when you were actively seeking safety. You came to her needing help with relationship safety and she gave you the opposite.

Thank you Jones for this. Each day now all through the day I am struggling with this feeling like I am responsible....
This boundary crossing gives so many confusing thoughts...Now I wonder how its going to go...and am anxiously waiting for it to be over and ...Not be over! This is awful, I still want her to come back and everything to be good again.
This is painful stuff however, I do think I am somewhat less guilty now, but very sad. Actually sad hardly describes it. Gutwrenchingly angonized is more like it when I slow down enough to allow myself to feel.

I ended the relationship Sunday evening. Took a note and the things I'd borrowed and left them outside her door. I think the note was respectful, short and to the point. I imagine she will be hurt, angry, sad....and who knows?...maybe relieved.

My P is ++ supportive right now.

I feel different about this each day.
Mostly I feel terrible. Jaded, sad, pessimistic also fit.

Words are not coming very easily ....for some reason they have almost disappeared

IHTS,
May I first tell you that you have my very deep respect and admiration. I am very convinced that you did the right thing, but I don't think I would have had the strength to do so in your position. That said, I can only being to imagine how painful this must be for you.

All of the feelings you described: terrible, jaded, pessimistic make so much sense. In a very fundamental way, she has betrayed your trust and in some ways its an affirmation of what we all fear. Don't get to close because you'll only get hurt. You have a right to all these feelings and I'm very glad you have a supportive P to provide a safe place to express them. And I hope that you'll continue to come here and talk about your feelings so we can support you through what I'm sure will be a complicated mourning process.

And although I know the pain must feel unbearable at times, I think there would have been even worse waiting down the road if you had not chosen to do this now. I hope you'll find some comfort in realizing your strength and your commitment to your healing.

AG

Thank You Dragonfly, BB, and AG for your replies.

I guess this has been an act of bravery. The feelings are many....some days I feel quite flat, today I have tears sitting waiting to spill again. I think I had to sort of distance myself from my memory of her and my connection with her to deliver the borrowed things and the note. I have been having trouble putting it all into words with my P....but she is gently insisting I talk about how I feel, otherwise she says it will take much longer to heal.

I have felt much anger lately. Yesterday I met a mutual friend in the grocery store who, without prompting, described the very disempowering dynamics she sees set into motion in all relationships initiated by my old T. My friend told me the old T has already taken another person under her wing to "rescue" even in the few days since she and I stopped relating. Wow....what a pattern!

Ahh.. I know I walked into that relationship thinking I had little to lose. And, I did gain A LOT. I was wondering on Thursday if the gain was worth it? On Friday, I felt somewhat better, actually a lot better after meeting my/our friend. It helped me understand more that I am not the craziest one, or maybe a better descriptor would be the "blindest one" in this picture....that short conversation was quite validating. And Thank you all for your support and encouragement.

I am sad,

and my body is tired.

IHTS

Oh yes, thinking of what you said, AG....that this is an example of what we all fear...

my P said in response to my statement of feeling jaded, that feeling jaded is part of the maturing and growing up into reality process. Getting stuck in pessimism and that jaded place, is not good, but moving through it into accepting that others cannot meet my unmet childhood needs then taking on that role myself...that is the goal and part of ultimately healing and maturing.

I also know now that if someone, ANYONE, promises to always be there for me unconditionally, and seems to be too good to be true.....she/he is not being honest.

Right now though, I would go through all this pain again because I can see the gains I've made - what I've learned about the world, others, and me......I'd go thru it all again rather than make no progress at all.
I spent a lot of my early adult years in hospitals (screwed up due to trauma), so this chance at real life in the adult world was and still is valued - even though hard on me and very painful.

One more thing - is that the energy I use to make hard choices and take needed risks...comes from my ANGER.
I remember realizing and saying years ago "This is not good enough!" I wanted more in life, I was angry at things that were happening in my family and to me, at my lack of knowledge, at my labels, at my lack of ability in handling things emotionally, so I decided to do whatever it would take to move in the opposite direction.

IHTS

IHTS,
I am in complete awe of how well you are handling this. I am so glad that you have been able to hang onto and appreciate the good that came out of the relationship despite how it ended.

And I LOVED what you said about anger! That is exactly the purpose of anger. It provides us with the awareness that something is wrong and the energy to go fix it. Your drive for life is a very admirable thing as it the fact that you turn your anger in such positive, creative directions.

(((((IHTS)))))

AG

Hi AG.....

Maybe I sound brave or whatever... I have good support and my responsibility is to use it. I want to stay honest, consider wisdom from others and not just do things my way ...but I still need to make my own choices.

It was cool...on Friday my P said...."there is definitely someone up there looking out for you".
I am very fortunate, even though rotten things seem to happen. It seems that every time I've turned around, at least over the past 5 or 6 years, awesome things have happened. I am amazed at what happens when you trust your "process".

Today, I got an email from a senior prof at my university. I applied for a p/t position about 10 days ago...as a nurse research assistant in a really interesting study. 3 positions were available. I was hoping to be hired but many applicants qualified. The email today offered me a position and I accepted it!
I guess the good balances out the bad things and this makes up life.

IHTS ...........ha!.......the weirdest part is that although awesome things happen, equally as bad things happen. I'd like to ask the universe to tone it down a little......maybe have a little less of the awesome and balance that with less of the bad stuff. But maybe intensity in what happens in life to people who live a little on the edge?

quote:

One more thing - is that the energy I use to make hard choices and take needed risks...comes from my ANGER.
I remember realizing and saying years ago "This is not good enough!" I wanted more in life, I was angry at things that were happening in my family and to me, at my lack of knowledge, at my labels, at my lack of ability in handling things emotionally, so I decided to do whatever it would take to move in the opposite direction.

This is amazing, IHTS - it articulates something on the edge of my understanding, and really important for me. When I wonder what the point is in my anger, what on earth to do with it, THIS is the answer I struggle to find. Thank you.

Congratulations on the new position - that's wonderful. And I want to offer my strong sympathy, too, for everything you're still going through in relation to your former T. It just sounded like a nightmare - I'm glad you're out of it but I know the pain and anger is going to take time to process.

J

So what you guys are saying is that a good use of anger is to help you toward changing the things you can in life? Huh... that is good for me to know.

Right now it is some unidentified negative feeling just floating around inside of me without a purpose or a home. And ready to lash out at whomever triggers me.
IHTS- hang in there, and use the people here that you can relate to. "Take what you need and leave the rest" and be gentle on yourself. Night.

Hi Jones and Helle,

Thanks for your comments. Whew...yes, anger is seen as awful and is confounding ....until you recognize its good purpose and tap into it. It gives me phenomenal drive and energy and I know it can fuel awesome creative change.

Why shouldn't we be totally pissed off?


Why shouldn't we use that inner energy to help ourselves and others as we learn?


Most of my anger comes from unmet childhood needs....and I believe there is nothing more powerful than these needs...so the anger is pretty big.