Hi Somedays,

I didn't read your thread earlier because I was afraid I would get triggered. But I'm so glad I did because I got to read about your wonderful session and your wonderful T. She sounds amazing. And there was nothing triggering at all in what you wrote. Actually just the opposite. It gave me such a warm feeling.

If I remember correctly, you were going to ask her about attachment? Do you remember any specifics re: attachment that she might have said? Was it you that emailed their T with an article on attachment?

Ahhh SomeDays - Hi - just to say this is so lovely and moving. Is making me smile so thank you so much for sharing. x

Hey Liese,

Really appreciate your comments and I am glad that my story didn't trigger you - it felt good that I had a positive session to talk about.

Liese - I have been feeding T lots of information. When something topical has come up in the past few weeks (and man it has...) _ copy and paste the relevant bits minus anyone's name and email it to her or print it out or read it. I have given her people's examples on attachment, recent experiences of the fuzzy boundaries of T's (I think TN wrote that bit), I spoke of a friend's recent issue but how she got a resolution as she had a T who was experienced and not afraid to admit her weaknesses.

I asked her about her experiences with people like me and how my therapy would progress, how she viewed attachment etc. I can only remember what I wrote above - in that her and my relationship would be the 'practice place' where I would experience a range of emotions and I could feel them and get the correct validation and I could then re-file them properly. She said we would do what normal couples in a relationship do and we would have arguments, disagreements but we would discuss and repair - sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly. We would be annoyed with each other at times and be frustrated that the other was going too slowly. She promised that she would be monitoring her own stuff.

You know I never think too much about the T - I just assume that they are going to look after themselves and be there every single week. She made me stop and think that OMG - sitting opposite me is a mum, a professional, a wife, a friend, a daughter, a sister etc - a real human being who has feelings. I had just never given it too much thought on how my stuff would affect her.

She left me with a feeling that she is going to be there with me for the long haul. I looked at her and said "this is going to take a long time isn't it" and she gave me this sad but supportive face and she nodded. I nodded back.

We laughed at one bit - i forget the joke - but essentially she was saying that I am her long term challenge - or the difficult case. I kinda felt triggered and bad at hearing that, but also a bit special in the way that I thought Yay, finally someone is listening to me and fighting FOR me. Still wish I hadn't heard it though.

Liese - have I answered you about the attachment stuff? Can you ask me a specific question perhaps as I am a bit rambly today (saw childT and was at the same practice as youngT - so elevated stress levels today).

SD,
Just wanted to say that I'm so glad you had a such a clear, affirming response from your T, it sounds like you're in good hands. And good for you being so proactive and bringing so much info into session.

quote:

but essentially she was saying that I am her long term challenge

I understand why you heard difficult (I would have) but I don't think she meant that. I think she meant challenging but in a good way. My T once told me I was challenging but hastened to add that it was because I pushed him to articulate things that were difficult. So challenging was meant in the sense that I made him have to grow and learn. For a therapist, that translates into "wow this is interesting and I have to be on my toes." I really wouldn't see it as a negative at all.

AG

Thanks guys - AG my T definitely meant 'challenge' in a very positive manner. I had been frustrated by her as she seemed to be sedate and not proactive enough for me, but I think that was part of her plan so that I calmed and trusted her. Since I have been telling her things that are discussed here and bringing up the big issues - she has responded with every right answer, I think she was just waiting until i was ready. It felt like she put herself into gear and we started our trip together. I know I have challenged her already with some of my questions and need for her to answer me on some big subjects like boundaries, our attachment, ruptures, termination etc. We got down to the big ones first.

There was a lots of "Us" and "we" and "together" and "partnership" and "our relationship" when she spoke the other day. That filled me with good stuff.

I think I showed her goodwill by telling her my big secret and she probably took that as a sign that I was ready to commit to our relationship. Maybe she had been waiting.


You know = over the past few months I have read everyone's therapy stories and those with great relationships with their T's - I have read them with some envy. Especially the DBT / BPD people - I have read it and dreamt that it would be wonderful if I could have that. yesterday and today it is dawning on me that I think i DO have it. I feel so lucky. THis T - - I saw her off and on for about 4 years (I can't remember) and I always thought that she was my T - even when I didn't need her. I never forgot her and she was in my head for years and years keeping me safe, helping me make good decisions. Then I didn't want go to her when I became unwell a year ago because of stupid reasons. Then when youngt termed me - I needed T quickly. How my journey has ended up! I am with T again - but boy I took the long and dusty path to get to her. And in the meantime I realise I am BPD and meet most of the 9 criteria AND my old T happens to be DBT / ACT / Attachment and Trauma trained. Right there all that time.

I think I am "falling into attachment with her". (cos it is like falling into love). I will now enter the 'fight the attachment phase at all costs and pick fights and push T away'. I will warn T about this.

I feel lucky at how things turned out.

SomeDays,

Yes, you answered all my questions, I think. I was wondering if she felt that any of us had misinterpreted anything but it doesn't sound like she *corrected* you on anything. Only gave you all the right answers.

IMO, you did such a terrific job by sharing with her, bringing all that stuff to her and generally by being open with her. It sounds like you are off to a terrific start.

I was disappointed myself when I wasn't done with therapy at the 2 year mark, then the 3 year mark. But I've finally accepted it as part of my life for now. It just is the way it is. And seeing how that means I get to keep T in my life for a while longer, that's not such a bad thing either.

My T also told me that I keep him on his toes and I took it as a good thing. I do think it's a good thing that I challenge and push him as much as he challenges and pushes me. And he did tell me that he grew a lot from our relationship and he looks forward to growing more together. So it IS a good thing, SD. Your T sounds really terrific. She sounds like the kind of T who appreciates *growth*. You landed in the right place at the right time.

xoxox

Liese

P.S. Edited to add that I hope you'll keep on posted on your remarkable journey.

Somedays sounds like things are going really well with your ‘new’ T. To think that only a few weeks ago you were in such a mess because of youngT – it’s really good to hear how your therapy is now taking proper shape and looking like it’s going to be good for you.

Well done you for having been able to bring all your issues in, and good for your T for being there for you in just the way you need her to be. It’s always wonderful to hear of T relationships that are working. Lol I love it too when I hear lots of ‘us’ and ‘we’ statements from T, makes me feel like it’s ok for me to be there.

Being called a challenge, hm. I get why you might have felt a bit put out by that even if she said it positively. I’ve had a couple of Ts say that to me at the start of therapy, obviously I was TOO much of a challenge because both of them dumped me pretty quickly . But your T sounds like she’s committed and isn’t likely to be fazed by ‘difficult’ work with you, which is a major plus in her favour.

I’m really pleased for you (((( Somedays ))))

LL

Yay, thanks LL. The term from youngT was 2 months ago - so yeah such a difference. This T is such a better fit for me. I was too much for youngT and so that is why the word "challenge" gave me an electric shock. Plus I had just had a major dissociation because I was confronting termination conditions - so yeah I was just a bit 'trigger happy'. T meant it in a positive way - her and I joke a bit and are sarcastic. I like that and without it - I couldn't cope.

I said something like 'Well aren't i one of your easier clients? Don't you want to fill your week with people like me?" and she said "yeah right - you easy?, um I don't think so". Obviously I knew I was a 'challenge' and she knew that she could be sarcastic back to me. Because I have known her for a long time - we can do that. It breaks things up a bit.

I am starting to trust and to attach. Scary stuff ahead. Thanks for your comment - I am loving this new T stuff.

Sorry Liese, didn't see your post above LL's. She didn't correct a single thing about the attachment - absolutely nothing. In fact she affirmed everything I had understood about it - from my reading and from you all on the forums discussing it. I knew what she was talking about and i knew she was saying the right things. A part of me was thinking that all the things I read were only for the US or something like that and that our psychs were trained differently and didn't believe in that 'stuff'. But I was relieved when she was talking the talk.

Thanks for saying I did a terrific job. A few people have given me compliments lately and I am starting to believe them.

I thought some more about what T said about us both challenging each other. I hadn't thought of that much before - but that is what it is about. The journey that we both go on together. I liked how she pointed out up-front how we are both going to struggle at times - with each other and the process. And she said that we will have arguments and ruptures but we will get through it. Kinda good that the bad bits are spoken about up front. What a great opportunity.

The more I am thinking of this - the more I am filled with lots of fuzzy and nice feelings.

I got so much from everyone else posting about their experiences with their T's - the good and the bad. I write about it here so others can copy and paste it and print it to use in their therapy process. Shared knowledge and experience is so powerful.

I know there are going to be rough patches with T - but I have more confidence that we can handle them.

quote:

That I will be attached to her, she will validate my feelings and experiences, she will make sure that through her I practice and I re-experience attachment "properly" and can heal. She said we will have big ruptures at times and like any couple we will discuss and get through them - sometimes quickly and at other times it will take a while.

this is really lovely. It sounds like she knows exactly what she is doing and that you are in good hands. I also felt she was outlining the relationship that I am having with my own T. !

quote:

And she said that we will have arguments and ruptures but we will get through it. Kinda good that the bad bits are spoken about up front. What a great opportunity.

this is what I am going through at the moment, and it is how he handles the ruptures that creates a great sense of being cared for and stability. It is really wonderful that you have this relationship ahead of you.
PS I ended with my T yesterday, but we are trying to find a way to turn that round, - it is the fourth major rupture we have had in our year together, so I feel kind of hopeful and yet also astonished still that therapy brings up such intense feelings towards the therapist! LOL

Wow SomeDays you are lucky!
What a great T you´ve got there!
I feel so happy for you

It sounds like she really knows what she is doing. From all the books I have read about attachment theories, I know that she is doing exactly the right thing. I have also seen that many people with BPD just like myself have to repair some attachment injury they have had, that is important thing in the healing progress.

Yes, I really feel happy for you, but at the same time I feel so sad that I could not read all the replies you got, I cried so much and the tears are still running down my cheeks.
But I have to write. I have to tell someone how I feel.

I am so hurt right now. I have been working with my T for 4 years. And she has been great, she has taught me so many things about myself and she has taught me to have feelings. Slowly I began to trust her, but it took me 2-3 years. I have been badly burned before. With trust came attachment. I´m not sure I got to the point where my attachment style was secure. But I could really feel the little girl inside me, I have never been so close to that child before.

But right then my T started talking about that I should work on not being attached. She thought it was bad for me to become so attached to her. It seems as she does not have the same believes as I do on attachment. Of course I do not want to be attached to her all my life (even though I have made jokes about calling her at the nursing home). A part of the progress of me un-attaching from her is that now she just wants our appointments to be twice a month.
And the little baby-me inside becomes really scared. And I do not know how to handle that terrified child. And I become really angry with my T, and I feel the trust is rapidly fading. Now I feel that I do not want to be that little child, I can not allow myself to be a baby without support. Now I want to be grown up all the time. And my little innocent fantasies (I´ve struggled to learn not to constantly fight them as evil), The fantasies are not so innocent when I´m a grown woman... then they are kind of sick.

I am really afraid that no one is going to want to work with, a patient, so deeply scared, that takes years just to be able to trust the therapist, and then years to attach, and then years to work on the physical-, sexual-, emotional- violence the patient has put herself in her whole life, because of poor self-image.

Dear Somedays you are really lucky to have a T that understands. It sounds to me that she is going to go with you all the way in the healing journey.

Hey Little me, Thanks for your post - it got buried and I didn't notice it.

Unfortunately that wonderful feeling from that session with T only lasted a few days. Last week's session was different and I have cancelled this week's one and not wanting to go. She said a bunch of amazing words in the session above - straight out of "Attachment 101" - but I think they were rehearsed words because the had forgotten everything last week. It just didn't feel the same.

SO now i feel lost, hanging in the wind and numbed out with my defensive walls up. I am trying not to make any decisions and just float my way through this feeling. I am angry, really angry and sad - but I have to have a confrontation - even if it is friendly - with T to make progress and I am not prepared to do that.

She gave me a bunch of mindfulness stuff and homework - and I really don't want to do it - it is so foreign to me and makes me feel useless and pathetic.

I still am trying to work out whether I want to be helped. I did tell her that I don't want to be helped or saved. And the bad part of me is the loudest at the moment and I don't know whether I can hack the long term pain of getting better.

It is all just a big mixed up mess.

((((((((SomeDays)))))))

Would like to encourage you to see her and try to work it through with her. Sometimes the seemingly worst sessions can lead to the most growth and productivity. Trust me, I had many of those types of sessions leading up to now. I've been with my T for 4 years. The attachment stuff isn't going to happen over night. It takes time to build and grow. And lots of times it hurts. There were many times before a session when I felt so nauseous and didn't know if I'd be able to make it into T's office and literally had to drag myself out of my car and take it step by step into his office.

But I know it's hard. Just wanted to let you know that I'm thinking of you.

xoxo

Liese

Somedays, your post reminds me very much of what I go through with T on a regular basis. One session I come away feeling positive and thinking, oh yes I think this will work, he’s said some good things today and then the next three damn sessions it’s all crap and I come away feeling really disappointed, unheard, not understood, as if everything I’ve been saying and explaining to him has gone in one ear and out the other. So I get progressively angrier and start thinking sod this I don’t need this crap what am I doing this for anyway better off carrying on sorting myself out on my own I think I’ll quit.

But I’ve never cancelled a session yet and every time I get like this I make myself go in and tell him how I’m feeling. I usually start by saying I have (another!) list of grievances against you and then go through everything that’s been pissing me off or making me feel unheard and wiped out and dismissed and unimportant. So ok it changes nothing, he still carries on being himself (lol despite all my clarity in explaining to him repetitively what it is I want from him in terms of how he relates to me in sessions) BUT the beauty of it is that I actually feel much more positive because I’ve been able to openly criticize him, openly state the things that he’s doing that piss me off (which shows what I’m needing from him) and he very non defensively accepts it all. That is so very healing, and perversely makes me feel ever so slightly more connected to and trusting of him.

So what I’m trying to say here is that maybe you want to think about doing something similar? I know you’ve said you just don’t want to have to go through confrontation, but maybe that’s exactly what you DO need to do to regain a sense that therapy is of some use? It sounds like your anger is saying, no I’m not prepared to do that, but it’s anger at her that is turning back onto you and you’re the one suffering because of it.

For what it’s worth I relate very much to that feeling of – why can’t T be understanding and sensitive and caring and sympathetic, and consistently so. How come I’m always struggling and fighting to make myself heard when he ought to be picking up on what I need and doing the things that good Ts are supposed to be doing. But seeing as how I end up experiencing him NOT doing that, then all I have to work with is how that makes me feel, crap and angry and frustrated and so so alone. Bit by bit I’m finding that the more I can throw at him whatever criticisms and fears and doubts I have about him, and the more he takes them, the better about the whole process I feel (not necessarily about individual sessions.)

Gosh I hope this doesn’t sound like I’m preaching at you or telling you what to do, it’s just that I did exactly what I’m talking about here in my session today (where I went in thinking ok right looks like it’s quitting time again) and I’ve come away feeling a whole lot more positive about my therapy than I have for a while. So I hope that despite how shut down about therapy you’re feeling at the moment, that you’ll give it another go and go in to your next session at least prepared to sort out with T how her approach is making you feel. If you’re already feeling like quitting, what have you got to lose?

I’m sorry you’re feeling like you don’t want to be helped or saved. Can I be presumptuous here and suggest that maybe that’s a defence rather than your genuine wish? And that pushing past it is one way out of the mess you feel you’re in. Though I get how the prospect of getting better involves so much pain that it’s tempting to ignore it and just get on with life without disturbing the sleeping dragons too much.

Not sure that I’m being terribly helpful here, so will stop preaching at you now. Hope you’re hanging in there

LL

Some Days,

I was sad to read your most recent update. From what you had written before, I thought your T sounded perfect, so attuned, understanding, and wonderful. I've been encouraged by the work you are doing together and really interested in hearing your updates. I'm so sorry things have taken a negative turn. They say that can be part of the process, though. . . I hope that you continue to stick with therapy and with your T in particular, but fully recognize that only you can know what is best for you. Just wanted to send some good wishes and warm thoughts your way. Let us know how things go. . .

I relate SD, at least that is the way ir was for me with my old T...I'd have a terrific session and be doing better, and then wham, next time he's foget everything and I would feel it was pointless to have conversation with him. But I really think that in facing the rupture and working through it, you will find some peace and sense of satisfaction. As she said, you are going to have these ruptures, and you will be hurt and angry with her...well here it is. I know how hard it is to face the confrontation, but I hope that you will present this to her in the same way that you have presented it to us...that you felt heard and understood, and that she got what you need, but then forgot all about it...I think if you tell her that and how much it hurt you, it's going to lead somewhere really good.
Don't give up!

Big hugs,

Beebs

God you guys are amazing.

I know that I am in a process and this is part of it. I think for me I am deciding whether T's inconsistency is a warning sign for me to get out before she gets worse - or whether it is me and my BPD and my defence mechanisms from being terminated from youngT. That is why I am not making hasty decisions or going on BPD benders and going off the deep end.

I have written out my list of grievances in point form for T. She was so specific and wonderful when she spoke about our relationship and what she can offer - yet she had changed so much- a total turnaround in 1 week. She spoke of being consistent and safe and being in it together - yet she was very inconsistent and I didn't feel safe nor that she was even in the room.

As Liese has pointed out before - we are always on high alert and always watching for signs of rejection - I told T about this and said that I was always hypervigilant - it is part of my protective armour.

Liese - I know you have been through this and I have the utmost respect for your comments and experience. You are starting to be inside my head (which is a good thing for me) as you are a voice of wisdom for me. I follow your posts closely and really listen and take in what you say. That is partly why i haven't done anything rash - as I know you have been through this and this is nothing new. It just takes so long and I know I am in this for the next 12 months.


LL - you made me laugh with your reference to you list of grievances - that is how I feel it is. I would like to take this on board as I think I am a 'list of grievances person' - i actually think my T will listen and change slightly - I say this because we had a part friend relationship a decade ago and I think she doees think of me as more than a stranger/client. She won't budge from her boundaries though - I am confident of that. I really get that saying your gripes - makes you feel better and after the rupture you feel slightly more connected.

LL - I never take yours or anyone's post as people preaching at me. I take it as caring people gently giving me the benefit of their experience and the wealth of their knowledge.

Your comment about not wanting to be saved - grey area here - I am going to therapy BUT - there is still the larger part of me that doesn't want to be alive or to be helped. I turn up to therapy and I am trying but I don't have a strong hold on things and I am not connected and I don't feel. T is trying to get me to be connected to things via mindfulness, values etc. You know I am in the middle of a magnet and I get pulled to 'the dark side' and really want to go there - well she is trying to put things at the other end of the magnet to pull me to the 'good side'. That is how I feel.


Guaranteeed - when there is a conflict like this in my life - I suck it all in and every bit of the anger, frustration and hurt is turned on myself.


HIC - My T probably does sound perfect - she did last week anyway! At least I had 1 week of that. If I do have this difficult discussion with her - i do believe that she will be a bit more thoughtful and self aware. I am likely to be her most challenging client at the moment and definitely her longest one (meaning I saw her 14 years ago). I think she was unthoughtful, flippant and took me for granted last week. This is one example. WHen she saw me after the youngT termination - she told me that she had time for a long term high needs client and that she always scheduled gaps in her week so she looked after herself and didnt burn out. Then each week on the day I see her - she is fully booked for 6 hours and never even takes a break - let alone a lunch break. So i get there and she has tried to eat a sandwich in the 1 minute between clients. So she sits there obviously hungry and distracted. To me this is being so hypocritical - not to mention that she isn't paying attention entirely to me. And she isn't looking after herself and I feel like a procession of people in and out of her door.


Beebs - yeah thanks - you are right - and T was right - we are going to have ruptures and this is one of them - she could have waited a week or two to let me find my feet first !!! I felt like I was in a critical period - the week before T had told me how things would progress and gave me the rundown of what might happen and I felt all warm and fuzzy and secure, but I was on super high alert - and she failed. She didn't fail because I set such a high standard = she failed the very basics.



Thanks for your support. I know this is a normal problem that we all face and I know that most of you have experienced it before. It helps to know that as it stops me from making rash decisions.

My strategy is to withdraw to think, instead of getting super angry and reacting and doing damage.

Somedays I´m sad to hear that your T isn´t as perfect as it sounded at first. And I can understand that now some of the things she said in the wonderful session sound just like she read the “attachment 101 – textbook” before seeing you. It must hurt a lot. I can feel that with my own T, that it is hurts a lot more when you have started to believe they are truly there for you and it is hard to believe. Then the next session they say something that we think proves that of course no one could be that understanding and supportive.

One thing that made me see your T as good one, was that she said “When she falters or is triggered or her stuff is affected - it is her responsibility to get outside help and supervision for herself“ I thought that was really wise to tell you that. Because I know some of us start to think too much about how T is feeling and that can interfere with the therapy.

I guess that is what happened with mine. And now it feels that 4 years of hard work is going down the drain. I felt she had too much on her hands. I knew she was overbooked, and the phone kept on ringing through my sessions, and her best friend died and T often had her migraine. Because of my history I felt it was better if I did pretend everything was fine with me, when it wasn´t. And now it feels that I have ruined everything.

Somedays I hope you stick with your T anyway. I still think she is a good one. Hope you have a good next session