(((((KASHLEY))))

I don't know what to say. You are in a really difficult position. I've doubted myself many times, wondering if I am making things worse than they really were. What does your mother do for him? Can she get another job somewhere else doing the same thing?

It's horrible that he's threatening to fire her because of what happened between you and he and that he's manipulating her to get you to do something you don't want to do.

In the long run, maybe your mother would be happier if he fired her and she found a new job. It sounds like he is really controlling and she has a hard time standing up to him. It might all be hard now but it might also give her a freedom that she doesn't have now.

I'm sorry you have to be in this position.

Thanks, Liese. She's convinced she'll never get a job anywhere else and, admittedly, it would probably be tough for her.

But whatever. I sent the email. I spent half of it defending her, and if I'm being completely honest, it makes me angry. Which is a very, very scary thing for me to admit. It feels so wrong to be angry about this, because it seems like I should just readily do whatever is necessary for her and never regard my feelings about it. But I'm fighting her battle for her and I'm talking her up, defending her, telling him to call me the failure and not her..and I'm angry about it.

She wanted me to give specific examples of stuff (she doesn't know the extent of everything), but I didn't do that. She'll probably be upset that I didn't "explain enough." But I had to draw the line somewhere. I guess that was my middle ground.

Anyway, sorry to be all complain-y. What's done is done and I'll get over it.

You are not being complainy. You just are. Life is though. We are all confronted with extraordinary challenges.

Your anger sounds good to me, though. It's sad that you have to protect her instead of the other way around.

quote:

telling him to call me the failure and not her

One day, Kashley, you'll stop being the fall guy and it will feel SO good. You'll get there. And you'll never go back.

(((((Kashley)))))

Firstly I have got to say that I really admire the strength you have shown in breaking off contact with your father.

You have asolutely nothing to feel guilty for Kashley. I think it is very unfair of your mother to ask you to defend yourself as well as her, that is definitely not your place to do. I think that you have every right to feel angry about this. It sounds like your mother is also victim of your father which cannot be easy for her either but she also has a duty to you as her daughter.

I hope you know that you haven't done anything wrong...far from it. It is your parents who have failed you.

Big hugs
Butterfly

Liese, Butterfly, BG - thank you so, so much for your support. I'm in a "touchy" state right now. I met with a new doctor this morning and ended up very triggered because of certain exams and then, of course, I come back to work and check my email and I have a reply from my father. I clicked on it for half a second just to see if it was really long (which it was) and then clicked it away. I can't read it, and yet somehow it feels like I'm a coward if I don't read it. Like my motivation behind all of this must not be very firm if I can't withstand an email from him.

I don't know...parts of me are just terrified at what's going on right now. Last week I was pretty shut down with T and it felt like she felt helpless and just kept asking if I'd met with the group T yet because I need more support. I was going to meet with the group T on Monday, but of course she had to cancel because of a doctor's appt, so we rescheduled for next Monday. I see T today, and I don't think I can handle another week of her saying that I need more support and just sitting there. I'm being harsh, though. I'm being needy for something, but I don't know what I need.

Anyway, thanks again for all of the support. I appreciate it so much.

(((kashley)))

First, my dear, please try not to worry about how much you are or are not on here. Reaching out for support is also a wonderful contribution to this community and there have been many times that your being willing to share your experiences has helped me personally to understand my own.

You are incredibly brave to break with any family member, especially one who obviously holds and abuses so much power. I also am fuming that your mom would demand for you to fix what is essentially her own problem for choosing to work under and enable a tyrant, bully, and abuser for so long. It was never your job to fix or to throw yourself under the bus...but at the same time, I know I would have done the same thing. Just last night, T was trying to convince me that the most loving thing I can do, even for those who greatly hurt me, was to have a realistic opinion of both them and me, not having contort myself into badness to try to maintain their goodness. It was a more lengthy conversation (which I can PM you about if you want, because I don't want to take over the thread).

As for your dad's email, you don't ever have to read it. You asked to cut off contact, so a long reply is him pushing a boundary you set. There have been times, for much less than what you are going through, that I've had to ask H to read a piece of mail or email or listen to a voicemail and tell me whether it is something I need to hear or just more abuse and nothing else. Is there someone (like maybe T) who you would feel safe asking to do that for you? I know it would be hard to take the pressure off from the awareness that he responded, but as you've been clear about cutting off contact, there really is no rule you have to reply to him or even read it. Having someone else read can ease your mind about whether there is anything in there other than attacks that needed to be heard. It has helped me to do this when I really need to protect myself against others' attacks.

Last, I'm just so sorry about all the pain and fear and doubt this must be stirring up. Please know you are loved and valued, no matter what broken, abusive have people tried to convince you. They could never take away your worthiness, no matter how hard they try...only try to blind you to it.

((((Kashley)))) Just wanted to let you know i`ve read your poster and wanted to offor some support. No wonder why you feel "needy" with your T these days- it really is a big decition to make and of course it involves all kinds of ambivalent feelings you`re dealing with right now. I am sorry to hear things are so hard though, but i find all your reactions to be very normal in such a "dramatic" life situation. I am abselutley certian though, that your deciding to end contact with your father is grounded in real good reasons. The guilt is not yours to bear. It`s your father`s.
Glad you posted- hopefully it helped a tiny bit to write it all down. Let us know how you`re doing?
Be gentle with yourself!

Non, Frog, thank you. I'm sorry I'm not replying individually. I'm in a very emotional place after my session. It seems pathetic (to me) but in my session I just wanted to curl into a ball on her couch and have her tell me that it would all be alright. I feel very small right now.

Kashley just sending you some hugs What the others have said above I'd like to echo - you're caught in a deadly piece of manipulation between your dad and your mother and I really get how you must be feeling so guilty about everything right now.

I hope your T was able to tell you everything would be alright. If it's any help, I can say that it will be alright, because I can see the strength and determination behind your decision and the wisdom which you are bringing to trying to resolve this situation - it sucks but you're moving forward and that's a good thing to see. One day soon it will feel a whole lot better.

Thinking of you (((( Kashley ))))

LL

Lampers, thank you. ((hugs))

I am a bit better after a sleep, but of course I have another email from my father this morning. I don't know what this one says, because I haven't read it either. Thank you Non for the reassurance that I don't have to read it. The thing is...I'm very "tempted" (that doesn't feel like the right word) to, because it seems like I deserve whatever punishment those emails hold.

T was supportive yesterday. I've barely shed a tear over all of this, but I ended up breaking down in her office and feeling everything. It seems like such a complex situation, and the emotions surrounding it are complex as well. But, mostly, I'm having trouble tolerating myself, because no matter which way I look at it, I've done something horrible. Either this is a justified choice but I've put my mother's job in jeopardy and made my father angry (T would want me to take out the word "made") or it's not a justified choice and I'm a horrible person to cut him off for things that didn't even happen.

For some reason I feel more disconnected from T lately. I don't know if it's just me or if it's something I'm picking up (probably me), but out of all the times...ugh.

Thanks again for all of the support. Again, I'm really sorry I'm not posting much.

Hey Kashley first up no worries about not posting all over the place – ebb and flow and all that stuff... everyone understands!

Just a couple of thoughts about your situation, which no doubt you have already thought about for yourself so hopefully this won’t come across as teaching you to suck eggs or anything:

I can’t help but think that there’s something quite a lot not right about this set up whereby how YOU relate to YOUR father somehow impinges on your MOTHER keeping her job. Or more to the point, her threatening that she will lose her job if you don’t sweet talk and allay your father’s potential ire against her. This is a game between the two of them and you have been caught up in it, effectively used as a pawn and being blackmailed and your needs and feelings completely sidelined.

It’s extremely unfair of your mother to do this to you, and though she may absolutely not be ‘doing’ anything deliberately or consciously, nevertheless it is still unfair. It’s also extremely unfair of your father to act out on your mother as a form of punishment against you (and her by extension) – that is, if that’s what he is actually threatening. I’m unclear whether you know your father would retaliate against your mother, or is that your mother catastrophizing?

Ok so that’s all nice and simple isn’t it? Just step back and not bother about either of them, how they deal with any of this is entirely their responsibility, right? Yeah, if only . I think I can understand very well the guilt you must be feeling and the sense of responsibility, especially if you are now the adult and the one with the emotional intelligence and insight into the family dynamics while your father and mother remain naïve and ignorant and blindly trapped in their own issues. Of course you don’t want to hurt anyone, you just want to stop being hurt yourself. And it seems like if you do that, no matter how justified or well intentioned you are, someone else is getting hurt and that just makes you feel really bad, and selfish, and a scrap of sub humanity and in the wrong and and and... (my words, I can guess though that you have any one of a long list of negative labels to attribute to how you feel and how you see yourself at the moment .)

It’s really sad that you are feeling distanced from your T right now, when you could do with a special connection to tide you over through this situation (and maybe as you yourself are guessing, it’s not that your T is distant, it’s that you are needing to defend and protect yourself against the emotional fall out of the issues in your family set up and that no doubt is making you feel untrusting and unsafe no matter where you are or who you are with.)

So failing your T being able to be there for you right now, maybe you can see for yourself that the ambivalence and uncertainty and self doubt and anxiety and fear and sense of not knowing whether your reality is actually real or just a fabrication of your fevered mind is all perfectly normal and par for the course in a situation where there is not only no clear cut right/wrong good guy/bad guy, but where decades of pain and rejection and unmet needs and insecurities are all coming together in your attempt to free yourself from the prison of the past. Can you let yourself feel all this stuff and not feel obligated to rush around acting on it, just sit with it (as the books say ) and take care of yourself as best you can?

Oh dear all my posts lately seem to be dripping with advice and suggestions and I’m sure that everything I’m saying here is nothing at all new to you, so disregard the repetition and just know that I hope you are hanging in there and think that you haven’t done anything wrong but have done everything right and that sooner or later the emotional intensity of this situation will have to fade. For what it’s worth, severing ties with a family member, as close and as important a one as your father is a BIG DEAL, it was never going to be easy peasy was it? I’m just sorry that it’s become even harder than it should have been because of the involvement of your mother in this.

And also for what it’s worth, if I were you I’d HAVE to read those emails. So if you can withstand the pressure to read them, you are indeed an extremely strong person (which doesn’t mean that if you do read them you are weak either!)

Sending you lots of good wishes (((((( Kashley )))))

LL

Hey LL, I'm sorry it's taken me so long to get back to you. I'm not really in a place to reply like I want to, so I'm going to come back to this later, but I really appreciate everything you've written. Thank you for such a thoughtful reply.

Lampers, I'm so sorry it's taken me so long to get back to you.

No, my mother isn't catastrophizing about my father retaliating. He can be very unpredictable. At this point, apparently all he's done is threaten her job right now. It sounds like maybe she won't actually lose her job, but it is still a bit uncertain right now. And yeah, you got the guilt thing down to a t. My T asked me today (for the millionth time) something like when can I let my mother take care of herself rather than me doing it for her. And it's just to avoid the guilt that I'd feel if I didn't do these things to protect her.

I'm still kind of missing that connection with T. I got in there today and just ended up blank. I talked about stuff just to not be useless, but I just felt like I wanted something that was locked away in a part of me that I can't access. Like I want T to be my mom. I've never wanted that before, but I want so desperately to have a mother who would have protected me from him, someone who could comfort me now like a mother should. It makes me feel childish for wanting that. But it's also unbearable.

When I was sitting there with T today, I was wondering if I should just stop going. What's the point? I know so many people have faced the unbearable truth that our T's can only be so much to us. But..it seems like, for me, it means my therapy has reached it's limits. When all I want is something T can't give - how does talking about it help?

Anyway, I'm sorry I'm really just rambling and have no idea if anything I've said makes sense. I've just been in a very weird, almost intolerable place lately.

Thanks for the support, LL. Thanks to anyone who reads. Sorry for putting my crap up here.

quote:

I just felt like I wanted something that was locked away in a part of me that I can't access. Like I want T to be my mom. I've never wanted that before, but I want so desperately to have a mother who would have protected me from him, someone who could comfort me now like a mother should. It makes me feel childish for wanting that. But it's also unbearable.

I can SO relate to this Kashley. I remember the moment that the "switch flipped" and I went from being totally content with my therapist being just that, to wanting her to be my mom. It happened so suddenly and so smoothly that it took my breath away, as if I didn't realize what I had missed out on growing up until that moment. I tried to talk myself out of it cause yeah, it did feel childish. Couldn't talk myself out of it, so eventually I talked to T about it.

As painful as it was to admit to T that I wanted her to be my mom, it was an incredibly helpful conversation. It was actually the conversation that allowed me to finally fully and completely trust her. The feeling still comes and goes, but now it doesn't strike me as childish, because I understand that T is meeting a need that wasn't met in childhood, and while I can't have a do-over on life with T as my mom, what she can do now, she does, and it helps things hurt a little less.

(((Kashley))) Don't give up now. You've come so far and as hard as this is now, you are worth putting the work in for the freedom that will eventually come!

Thanks, R2G. You helped me gain a little perspective on this, although it doesn't really make it easier, which I know you know. I'm sorry I don't have much more of a response. For some reason I'm in this kind of "talk is forbidden" place right now, and I just can't get anything out. Probably because of this stuff. I'm going to try to build up the courage to have an honest talk with T about this, but it will be hard considering I have to wait until a week form Monday, at which point I'll probably be completely shut down.

Oh well. Thanks again for the support and the insight, R2G. I hope you're doing okay - sorry I've been so awful at keeping up with things lately.

Hang in there Kashley. No pressure to talk or write or anything, just take care of you!

Just sending you some hugs Kashley, hope you're hanging in there.

LL

That's so sweet of you both. Thank you. ((R2G)) ((LL))

I'm okay, I suppose. I'm fighting off a downswing into a depression. It's just..not fun. It's not fun knowing that I want something I can't ever have. Those little parts want T to be our mom so that she would have protected us. And what hurts so badly is that she's done so many motherly things before, and so thinking back on them now makes it all the more painful. She's said that she would have protected us, she's said she would've paid attention to what was going on, and she's said that she would've made sure that it never would have happened again. It makes the whole process of therapy seem cruel.

It seems like it would be less painful if I just keep this wish to myself and don't tell my T. Even my rationality is fighting me on this and saying that maybe we shouldn't say anything. No matter how much I allow myself to feel about this or cry or whatever, it seems like it never gets any better. I still always have a bottomless pit of tears. Why should I keep allowing them to come up when they'll never stop anyway?

I'm sorry to push this post back up again when I'm probably just going to go quiet again. Just wanted to say thank you, and I guess I needed to vent just a bit. Thanks for giving me the space to do that.

No worries about bumping threads and all that guilt stuff , if you can't come here and talk about how you're doing without having to pay some kind of quid pro quo dues in terms of posting replies, then the forum is not the place I think it to be. Which is a pretty stupid and convoluted way of saying I'm glad you did post to say how you are doing and that I'm 100% sure no-one is thinking badly of you for not rushing around the place posting madly on every other thread going!

I am sorry though about how you're feeling and that you'll probably withdraw for a bit again - it's good when you're about. But looking after yourself is something we all seem to need to take lessons in, so good for you for doing just that.

Sending you some big hugs, because I've got nothing remotely useful or knowledgeable to say about the situation with and your feelings for T. I just hope that if you hang in there, you'll break through the grief finally to a newer stronger healed you

LL