Thanks Echo ...I'll let you know how things go or new T may not take me on ... taking it one baby step at a time.

kansas

((((KANSAS)))))

I really like that metaphor. Why should we hold their rope? Why did Ex-T contact you? Can you go back to her or is that out of the question now?

Do you really think she would laugh at you? I hope not.



Liese

Liese,

Ex-T and I met after I had exited therapy, when we started having problems ... after our meeting (outside ex-T office in the lobby) ... she said she would make first contact (everyone said this was her way of saying ex-T did not want to see me again). Well, she contacted me a few days later with her "RULES" (friendship does not have rules).

Before she made contact I used the ledge scenario (to help me let go of my wanting a friendship with ex-T) and it worked! I started through the process of anger, acceptance and was just starting to process forgiveness and then the email came. I tried for a while and realized she was contolling me so I sent her a "Dear John" email. When I tried to get back to the process of letting go ... is when I started jumping and I was on a bungee cord not a rope ... it was like she was bouncing me with yes,no,yes.

kansas

((((KANSAS))))

Oh, yeah, I know that bungee cord and don't like it much either. What were her rules if you don't mind me asking? You don't have to share if you don't want to. It just sounds curious.

HUGS<

Liese

P.S. You are stronger than you think.

Liese

Good to hear from you!

The rules were:
1)emails
2)occassional calls (I did not receive a call)
3)occasional visits (I was not ask to visit)

The rules were not bad, but if one is starting a friendship(outside of therapy)there should be not rules. As in any new friendship we should go forward slowly, but as AG pointed out ex-T was still controlling.

kansas

((((KANSAS)))))

I think she must have really liked you too to agree to venture into a friendship wtih you. But she could just be really busy and not have a lot of flexibility in her schedule. My own T is now teaching 3 classes and has a zillion psychotherapy clients in addition to his family and friends. I just don't see him as someone looking to add a friend into his life. I suppose sure if someone came along and something developed but ....

It could be the same with your T. And not only that, your T is coming at it from a whole different place than you are. And this is not to say that she doesn't really like you. It's just that your feelings developed more naturally while in her case, she probably kept a tight rein on hers because she has to.

IMO, she hurt you more by agreeing to a friendship and holding out the promise of a friendship. There's your bungee cord right there. She might think she's doing the right thing but your emotions are being played with. You are going to have to be the one to make the decisions here, the ones that are best for you.

Wow, such powerful words. They just spoke to me too.



Liese

Liese,

On Feb.23 (funny how this dates sticks in my mind) I sent ex-T an email subject line "last communication ". I told ex-T that this was my last commumication with her. I wanted a friendship not an acquaintance and by her setting rules she was still being a therapist not a friend. I then told her how she had helped me and that she was "special" to me. I left the letter open if she wanted to reply, but she has never replied (what is there for her to say )?

This email was hard to write (but it needede to be said) and I'm still feeling the fallout.

Hugs to you and Echo for being around for me

kansas

Awww Kansas,

I would be feeling the fallout too. I think you should feel proud of yourself though. You asked for what you wanted and you didn't compromise when what she offered wasn't what you wanted. I know it's small consolation.



Liese

Liese,

Thanks Liese, the fall out is heartbreaking!

I'm with new T, but she just does not get it. New T wants to make excuses for ex-T (I call it the "good old boys club" --- covering each other's butt). When I was leaving she said next time we will talk about your childhood ! Well, that tells me where she has her head (you know the place where the sun don't shine )

kansas

Echo ,

I did not see your post, thanks for the support this is going to be rough for a while. I thought ex-T "hung the moon" !

I am glad I let her know I wanted a friendship (not an email buddie) but having to say goodbye.

kansas

Echo,

I hope the pain gets better ... it really hurts now and there does not seem to be any closure. Thanks for sharing your tears and your "been there done that" knowledge. You will never know how this helps ... I to am while typing.

Big THANK YOU

kansas

(((((KANSAS)))))

There is no closure because she tore open your wound. She held out the possibility of you getting something you want, she gave you conditional hope.

I'm sorry you are hurting so much.



Liese

Liese,

I remember Echo talking about T and how she would have seen more of T if they had made a monthly appointment.

Looking back I question myself if this is what I should have done (may be things would be OK), but I could not see paying for friendship ... it's just not right.

kansas

(((((((KANSAS)))))))

You are not paying her for friendship. You are paying her to learn about yourself, to engage in some wierd existential pursuit into the inner and outer reaches of your psyche.

My best guess is that this is not the first time you felt as though you were "paying" someone for friendship and the shame comes from that experience, not the current experience with your T.

Kansas, I'm going to be straight up here. I would have given my T my body. And he knows it. Sometimes I wonder how he can look me in the eyes with respect knowing what I would have done for him. Facing that kind of shame isn't easy.

Last week I told him that I felt like a beggar. He told me that he doesn't see me that way. I don't know how he can NOT see me that way. But I'm going to try to trust that he doesn't and keep going back.

Call her and go back and see what you can learn about yourself. Maybe you will learn it's not as shameful as you think it might be.



Liese

Liese,

I went to a new T last Thursday. T also saw me Friday and I will see new T Monday.

New T knows ex-T and is trying to figure why I'm obsessed with ex-T and the reason ex-T back out of (or made rules)for a friendship. New T says ex-T realized she had crossed boundaries and backed down!

New T did ask if I thought there had been transference... I said there had not been. I've spent the day reading my books and surfing the internet. I think there was tranference which is very painful and I have all the symptoms. I mentioned this to ex-T 6 months before exiting therapy. Ex-T just ask how it felt and went on without throughly discussing transference.

You may be right I need to see ex-T, but should I wait? I'm thinking(maybe not clearly)that I should wait and talk to new T before making an appointment with ex-T.

Sh*t, I'm so confused!

kansas

Oh, yeah, talk to NewT about it because I'm just speculating here. I have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about. Only can try to relate your experience to mine.

Glad NewT is supportive. That's great.



Liese

Done quite a bit of head banging myself.