Called my father out this morning.

russMember

(warning: language)

This morning, in my parent's kitchen, after my father literally stared me down with a scolding look after I made a very innocent, joking remark to my Mom about him, and after he disrespected my Mom with another comment, I called him on it.

I said, "whoa, whoa, whoa...no more. I don't wanna hear your sneering, hostile, dismissive, disrespectful crap ever again, not toward me or Mom or anyone. Do you understand?"

He immediately became defensive and did his little "what did I do?" hands-up-in-a-mocking-fashion thing that makes me want to bash his f-ing teeth in, I swear.

And when my Mom backed me up, he said, "that's right, blame it on me, throw me under the bus." Then he said to her, "you're biased."

When I said, "whoa, what do you mean she's biased. Biased against you?" He said, "yeah, you know what a bias is?"

Then, for the next 15 minutes or so, I told him how angry I've been at him since I was about 8 years old, and told him that he needs to think about why that might be and how that might be related to the 24/7 hell of anxiety and depression I've been living with for over the past 2.5 years. He said, "you're assuming that I haven't thought about that, but I have."

Ok, well, what do you think?

He said, "look, we're not going to talk about this now." I said, "that's right, let's not talk about it. That's worked real well so far in this fucked up family...not talking about it. Let's pretend there's no problem."

That's how my three-day stint with the entire family started at about 9 this morning, getting into it with my father. You'd think it would've made me feel OK to say all that, but I feel even worse than I normally do.

No matter what I say or do, my father ALWAYS makes me feel like I am wrong. Either with his words or his body language or the look on his goddamn face, he never, ever takes responsibility for being hurtful or thoughtless.

And, he never fails to defend himself with this: "it's not my intention to come across that way." Fine, now do something about it, but he never does.

Russ

12/26/101:39 PM

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mayoMember

Russ- I am so sorry to hear that it went so badly with your father.

My father was similar to yours- always right- never strong enough to admit when he was wrong, to angry with life to reach out and try to love anyone. As he got older, he became more bitter. Then he got sick and walled himself off from everyone accept my mom. She was like a hostage. Before he died, I wanted him to know my children. (not because he changed- but because I did. I learned- somehow to make my peace with him- forgive him in a way)
I never felt his love, but for a brief time my children did.
He did change a little, he let them into his heart- just a little. And they have a sense of a man I never knew - a caring creative grandfather.
He died 5 years ago.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

12/26/102:30 PM

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russMember

Hi Mayo,

Thanks for your reply. I'm sorry about your Dad. I'm glad for the little bit he was able to open up to your kids.

Part of why this is so upsetting to me is that I don't want to feel this way about my Dad. Beneath the intense anger I'm sure is a whole lot of hurt, even though I haven't felt it yet.

Happy Holidays to you, too.

Russ

12/26/103:36 PM

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strummergirlMember

Hi Russ,

Wow...I just wanted to say a huge congratulations on calling your father on his BS.

I have my own set of toxic parents, and just thinking about the kind of interaction you stood up to - it literally makes me shake in my boots (or any other footwear I've got on at the moment

). IMO that took a lot of guts...especially knowing how he always responds...and knowing how awful it was going to make you feel...those kinds of responses you described, where he keeps dodging the issue and never takes responsibility, they are SO toxic and you come away feeling partially poisoned

...but you still spoke the truth anyway and didn't let him get away with it...it would have been "easier" just to grit your teeth and stay silent, maybe...so I just wanted to say, even though it made you feel worse...I think you did the RIGHT thing...and hopefully, in time, it will start to make a difference...for yourself and/or for your mother...even if your father never changes.

Thanks for sharing this with us,
SG

12/26/105:43 PM

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kashleyMember

Wow, Russ. First off, congrats on confronting your father. I know you feel worse but it is really great that you stood up to him. He sounds SO similar to my father. I would have been absolutely petrified to say some of the stuff you said, and it was really, really brave of you to do so.

I've been ignoring my father's rude comments while he's here, but instead of feeling better that I'm starting to draw boundaries, I feel incredibly worse. Those words get in your head and shake everything up. Being away from him has given me this idea that possibly I haven't always been the one at fault, but being around him has gotten rid of that idea in a hurry.

I kind of remember something my old T told me...she said something about how changing the "rules" will feel very wrong at first, but eventually it won't feel that way. Calling out your father was really great and another step toward your healing.

Thanks for telling us about this. Take care!

12/26/107:45 PM

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russMember

SG and Kashley,

Thanks so much for the kind words and support. It means so much.

Yeah, it feels really awful and wrong and frightening, but I couldn't take being pushed around anymore, and that's exactly what he attempted to do with his little stare down and his little back-handed, off-the-cuff "that's right, blame me" remark that he tried to slip past me and my mother.

And like any bully, he got defensive and weak and tried to become the victim when I called him on it. I mean, I was as calm and respectful as I could be, but I'll be damned if I'm gonna take his crap anymore.

And this whole "I didn't intend for it to be interpreted that way" just feels like such a cop out, as if he's been oblivious to how his demeanor, words and actions have been felt by us for the past 50 years. I mean, if I drop a bowling ball on someone's foot unintentionally, it's still going to hurt them. I will then SEE that it hurt them and make an effort to not keep dropping bowling balls on their feet in the future.

Russ

12/26/108:29 PM

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sadlyMember

Hi russ, isn't it strange how we can still feel little and wrong sometimes when we call them on their BS. But I agree with what has been said before, initially it is hard, but it gets easier.

And yes, he probably feels bad about how he behaves sometimes, and maybe someone like the Dalai Lama would say 'meet him with kindness and then he will maybe tell you how he hurts about it" but that takes some doing. As it is, being aware that he is hurtful is very sensible, and stopping him verbally is a good step forward. I don't think I have said anything deeply helpful - just wanted to say how sorry I am that things are hard.

12/27/104:10 AM

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russMember

df and sadly,

Thanks so much for your comments. Last week, my T described my predicament this way, which I thought was pretty brilliant and accurate.

"It's like there's a giant, black hole, and if you get sucked into that hole it means a kind of psychological death for you, and you've been spread-eagled over that hole all this time, and because the hole is so close, the fear of getting sucked into it - the sense of dread and doom and oblivion and intense fear of unknown origin that you describe - is right up close in your face at all times. It's always with you, and it's been knocking on the door for many years. (I've had anxiety attacks for a long time)

"Well, that hole is a memory, maybe not of a specific event, but of a condition from your childhood, your place in your family, and how you felt about it and them: disconnected, forgotten, not included, rejected by your father and never fully connected to and/or defended by your mother, an unwanted appendage to a family that had already happened by the time you came along (I have 3 older sisters who are all much older).

"The memory of that condition is a kind of horrible truth, and it's very, very, very threatening to you. That hole has to do with how you felt about where you stood - and still stand - within the context of your family, and damn it, that's progress."

This makes a lot of sense to me, but of course, the "memory" has yet to hit me. Still, this anger at my father, my mixed feelings about my mother, and the odd sense of disconnection that I feel with my sisters all fit my Ts theory.

Thanks again, all. I'm so grateful for your comments.

Russ

12/27/106:15 AM

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Attachment GirlAdmin

Russ,
I am glad you were able to stand up to your father as I think it is an important step in understanding that you are no longer a powerless child who HAS to put up with whatever behavior your father dishes out. So to find your voice and use it with him is, as everyone else has so rightly pointed out, a huge accomplishment. But I totally understand you feeling worse. You're anger is ultimately about the fact that you didn't get what you needed from your father, his care, nuturing and respect. You were supposed to KNOW you mattered, that what you felt was important and that your needs were important to your father and that he would work to meet them. Even though you are no longer a child, those unmet needs still live within you. I think it was you who once told me that the unconscious is "timeless" so when you stood up to your father and said that to him, there is a way in which you're still back there as a small child wanting your father to show you that you matter, that you're special to him, that he loves you enough so that your needs affect him. Your father refusing to even discuss the problem with you or change his behavior is going to invoke all the unresolved grief around not getting what you needed from him as a child. You have mentioned several times in your posts over the time I have known you that you suspect that there is a great deal of pain underneath the anger and I think you're right. Anger can be comforting in that we can feel more powerful when we're angry while feeling our pain and hurt leaves us more vulnerable and can be harder to get to.

I'm sorry Russ, for your pain and how your father failed you and continues to fail you. Your courage and perserverance in struggling to deal with your feelings is incredible to watch.
(((Russ)))

AG

12/27/108:30 AM

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russMember

Hi AG,

Awesome to hear from you. I hope you're well (sounds like you are!).

You are, as usual, correct in your observations, and I do believe that the unconscious is timeless. I just wish that instead of feeling this suffocating fear - that also feels like I'm wearing a diving bell on my head - I could start feeling the stuff that I'm involuntarily de-pressing. I'm sitting here telling myself, "ok, enough, just let this stuff start bubbling up already!!"

I think I would rather feel the grief and all the other stuff than the symptoms. Of course, if all of me felt that way, I'd be feeling them. Clearly, I'm conflicted about it, and the part of me that would rather feel like hell 24/7 is still prevailing.

AG, I know you went through a period of experiencing long-buried feelings. May I ask, when those started coming into consciousness for you, what that was like? Did they creep in, or did they burst in? Did they feel totally alien, or did they have a quality of feeling somehow familiar? I'm so curious about this whole idea of feeling stuff that was either never felt, or barely felt and the rest was shut away.

Thanks so much, AG.

Russ

12/27/109:27 AM

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True NorthCo-moderator

Hi Russ... You've gotten some great feedback here and I don't have much to add except that I want to say BRAVO to you for standing up to your Dad and shaking things up a bit. And yes I imagine it feels way uncomfortable to do that but I think it was a really important step for you.

As for those long buried feelings....I think I knew mine were there sort of behind a door that was bulging out but that had some strong locks on it. I started to let them out very very slowly. I started with oldT two weeks before my mom died and my dad was already dead 3 years. The timing was interesting because I'm not sure if I could have addressed those feelings in therapy if my parents were still alive... or I'd at least be much more conflicted about them.

They started to emerge as I worked to trust oldT more and more and tried to convince myself that I was safe with him and in allowing him to really know me and my history. And so the feelings started to flow and the problem became how to control the fallout. How to keep me within the therapeutic window so I was not so activated after I had to leave therapy. It was a bumpy ride with oldT because he was not skilled in this area and I did a lot of the processing and making important connections on my own and with the help of a wonderful friend who is very psychologically minded.

Right now everything to do with trauma, buried feelings and abuse is on hold in limbo while I try to work through the recent trauma of being abandoned by oldT with newT. It's a really confusing place to be and I feel so unbalanced all the time. Luckily newT is smart enough to keep things to a dull roar in my head.

Hang in there Russ. I think you are really making progress with this.

TN

12/30/107:50 PM

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