Hi MTF,

Just wanted to say I'm sorry I didn't mention those doubts earlier - I wasn't trying to hold back exactly, just that they really start to get stronger when I think about them together, and in relation to your comments about her being a workaholic, and in relation to the fact that you're having such a rough time and don't feel like the situation is improving.

None of these things she's done seem like boundary transgressions to me, or even like 'bad therapy' exactly - but I think there can be a lot of ground between really bad therapy and really good therapy, and maybe ok therapy can be bad therapy for the wrong person, if that makes sense.

You asked in your other post whether your reactions seem out of whack with what you describe. I would agree with others that it sounds like you are dealing with attachment injury, and that complicates things because to someone who is experiencing that, the feelings are very intense. Not wrong or out of whack, just more intense maybe than for someone who isn't attachment injured. And it complicates things because, by my understanding, to recover from attachment injuries, maybe we DO have to go through the pain of risking being close, and even the pain of being hurt, in order to experience repair, and in order to start sorting out the difference between past events and present events.

So to go through that I figure you need someone who can keep you safe. This is not the same as being perfect. I think those with wonderful Ts might be able to tell of mistakes those Ts have made.

But hmm... who was it who made the excellent sterile-room analogy the other day? (I'm sorry I've forgotten!) To borrow that analogy, it seems to me that even good medical staff might sometimes accidentally cough in the room, but you don't want to get operated on by someone who has a current infection.

Far out.... Sometimes I hate it when I write a post and it sounds like I'm trying to sound like I know what I'm talking about! I don't! I'm just trying to help think it through with you.

I know with my own T that after some pushing and pulling and obsessing over this question, I've kind of come to the conclusion that she's not perfect for me, and has done some stuff I don't think she'd have done if she were more experienced, and that I don't want to rely on her too much. I'm sort of relieved that she's leaving and I won't have to contemplate what to do about this. But knowing that has allowed me to feel a bit more peaceful about the 'is it her or me?' question. It's both of us. Although I'm not sure I want to continue therapy when I'm done with her, I'm sort of hoping that there's someone out there who's a better match for me.

Well, I hope that helps a little.... Remember that whatever happens with this, you're not going to be alone.

J

MTF, I just wrote a reply to your post and closed it without posting... GRRR...

Unfortunately I have to start work now...

Just want to let you know that I agree with Jones, your T is probably not perfect, but it doesn't mean she is bad and you should run away from her as soon as possible.

Take care...
I will try to add something later on...

Hi there More Than Fine

What a good idea - sometimes other people reading posts are able to pick up on things like red flags more obviously than the poster themselves - so this is such a good question.

I’ve noticed three recurring ones that are pretty obviously nagging away at you and that would bother me if I were you - that your T was withdrawn and cold in response to your telling her about your attachment but wouldn’t admit it; that she cried and responded to you in an overly emotional way when you confronted her about it; and the sign on the wall.

The first one I suspect is the most important one for you - because it’s totally unresolved. Never mind that she is saying she didn’t think she reacted in that way - what she ought to have recognized is that to you that’s how she reacted and by dismissing your perceptions as untrue she is negating you, effectively saying not only that you are wrong but that how you feel about it doesn’t matter. I think it’s important you sort that one out, she really has to accept that your experience of her reaction is totally valid and until she gives you that recognition this is going to eat away at your relationship. It’s perfectly possible she didn’t see herself as being cold and withdrawing and is underestimating how badly you are affected by it - equally she could be aware that she did respond in a less than accepting way and is not taking responsibility for its effect on you. One way or the other this is a serious stumbling block and I think you need to be able to resolve it with her before anything else.

When I read your other post where you described how you had that deeply emotional connection with her after confronting her about things - a big warning bell went off in my head when you explained how she cried. For me that’s totally freaky, I cannot deal with it at all if a therapist shows any deep emotion - it scares the hell out of me and subsequently I find I’m monitoring and censoring what I say out of fear that the therapist will take it personally or go all emotional again and I end up having to watch out for their feelings all the time, meaning I no longer feel safe enough to focus just on me.

On the other hand of course - that’s so much more like it would happen in the real world that maybe it’s a valuable learning thing - to experience someone else responding in such an authentic and profound way to you. So maybe it’s not so much a red flag as something important to ‘process’ (sorry I hate psychojargon) in terms of relating to other people.

And the sign on the wall - when I read about that in your other post my first reaction was to smile. I assumed she had it on her wall as a kind of ironic thing, a bit like an in-joke referring maybe to that being the sort of thing clients tell themselves. Having said that, it IS very ambiguous - it’s one of those things I would ask T about to find out what it means to her.

So the obvious thing natch is that you need to talk to her about all of this stuff - not so much in order to have a case against her - you’ll get that depending on how well she resolves these things with you - but to find a way to feel safe and comfortable again in therapy with her, or not, as the case may be.

And I agree with damn I can’t find the reply so can’t remember who said it - that it would be good if you could see your T more often, once every fortnight or less is way too long apart when you’re going through these sorts of things. There’s a lot going on here - I think you’re doing good for yourself by posting about it here, that way you’re able to get some sort of clarity about it all (well I hope anyway )

Lamplighter

(((((MTF)))))

Hi MTF, I can't respond in the kind of detail I'd like to right now because I'm in a rush to get my girls off to school and get to work myself (maybe that's a good thing - hah!), but I just wanted to say I agree with a lot of what's been said already. And I can relate to everything you are saying, with respect to what I went through with my former T. I even called the feeling "wheel spinning" in my journaling at that time.

One thing I want to say is I believe that you saw what you thought you saw in her reaction at the beginning. I don't think you were imagining that. It sounds like she really is trying to help you...but as I've been told, a therapist can only take you as far as they've been themselves. You seem to be picking up on the fact that she is having to push herself to keep up with you, which naturally is making you nervous. I picked up on that with my former T too, and so I constantly feared the bottom falling out. And then it did. Not an experience I would want anyone else to go through. But then I don't think I could have walked away. Maybe because I'm too stubborn, I don't know.

I really think she is letting too much of her own stuff into the room, which is what is making this so confusing for you. I will try to write more later...I really have to go...but I just want you to know I'm really feeling for you, everything you described is what I went through too. I'm really sorry you are hurting like this.

((((((MTF))))))

SG

MTF

Oh how difficult I don't know if this helps but I thought a lot about the sign up in her office. Hmmm, maybe funny on the surface but quite insensitive to those of us who had to wear big girl panties from infancy and deal with whatever life threw at us. For those who have had such experiences and come to therapy to feel safe and supported and maybe even have to go back a relearn about being a child and experience childlike emotions etc to learn how to deal with life as an adult. Just a thought obviously, but one that immediately struck me as an odd thing to put up as your first impression - almost like an ethos to her clients.

SG I was really interested in you saying that

quote:

...but as I've been told, a therapist can only take you as far as they've been themselves.

Do you think that's really true? What if your T hasn't had any of your experiences but has insight, empathy and knows the theory and practical helping skills? Is that enough? I agree it's helpful to talk to someone who has 'been there' themself - that's why this forum is so amazing - but do our Ts need to have been there too? Or is it that they themseves have experienced a deep therapeutic relationship that has taught them exactly how it is for us? I don't know - what do you think?

starfish

Thank you everyone for your input here. Just wanted to update. My T called me twice yesterday and left me a couple of voice mail messages. She finally got a hold of me this morning and I told her that I have been spinning since I got to the elevators outside the clinic Friday. She was in disbelief, and probably a bit upset that I hadn't called her. She asked me if she had said/done anything to cause this and told me I really needed to be honest with her because she was really worried about what has been going on and was bothered by the fact that I have been going away from my sessions seeming to be okay and then ending up more upset that I was before. I told her that I feel like she's holding back something about what went down in December and that I wonder every day what her reaction and actions were about. She again insisted that she doesn't remember acting the way I described, that she remembers keeping her distance because she didn't want to crowd my space because I was upset, or something. She told me she has been really trying to be careful with me the past few months, since I tried to find out what her reaction to me at my first session and also on the phone when I told her I was attached to her were both about. She said today that she has felt like she's had to walk on eggshells with me (and that she feels like I've been doing the same thing with her) because she doesn't want to give me the wrong messages and cause more hurt or confusion, so she has been trying extra hard to do all the right things and not do the wrong things. Poor woman! Kind of her own fault, but part of me wonders how much of this is because of my own really warped filters and if what I thought was her being 'freaked' was her trying to give me space, or what. I don't know. She said she really cares about me and wants to help me, and that she does not want to transfer me (I asked her because it's been bothering me). She said she is 100% comitted to helping me work through this and I told her that I don't want to be transferred, I want to work through this to. She asked if I am willing to give it 100% and I said 'yes'. She asked if I'm 'game' . She wants to meet with me as soon as she has a cancellation and said we're going to focus on our relationship (yay!) and I'm so hoping that I am finally going to get somewhere with my T!! I feel like today she FINALLY got it!! It's taken long enough, but I guess it's better late than never, right?

I'm going to tackle the 'big girl panties' sign with her, and definitely the internet searching stuff once I can get into a session with her. That part is scaring me because I'm of course afraid she's going to throw her hands up in the air and run away screaming in horror. I'm sure she won't, but my mind can sure run away with itself! I'm sure other things will come up along the way, but I am just so relieved and feeling so much better today (and my mind is not spinning like it was, thank goodness) just having got that stuff out in the air with her. Thank you all for your support and for being willing to consider my stuff and point out things you were seeing. It really did help me!

MTF

MTF, It's good to see you cheered up after having a chat with your T.
I think you should stay with her. Perhaps things are going to be a bit rough at times, perhaps she is not entirely free of errors and weaknesses (I would bitch to her about the panties sign), but she cares and she wants to help.

I think you may still be spinning in between your sessions, but I hope things for you will be getting better and your relationship with your T will make you stronger and safer with every passing week.

If I was to call any red flags, I don't think there is a reason to it. I hope you will stay wit her and get into a better side of life.

Hey MTF,

I'm glad you were able to clear the air a little bit with her, and I'm glad that you're going to stay with her. As tumultuous as all of this has been, so long as you both stay open and committed, I think this will make your bond even stronger, and you'll feel much more secure with her in the long run. Let us know how your next session goes!