wow Mayo- this is triggering indeed... Gosh, its so understandable that you react like you do.. Espescially when you seem to think that this message was ment for a client..

I a surprised you didnt get an apology from your T.
as what i immediatly thought was that Karen could be a close friend or relative of your T? thats much more likeley than a patient because of the spescial content of the message. i have of course no idea, only guessing here Mayo.

I understand you are furious and sad and dissapointed, but there might be a very good explanation to this, and you should go see your T and hear what he has to say (in his defence), if not you might end up only guessing the worst and never figure this out.. Just know in the meantime, that all of your reactions to this, are valid and ok to have. It was a mistake to send you that message, and your T should explaint this and be very aware of what kind of effect that message would have on you..

Hm, i wish i had something better to offer, this is just a very tricky case..

sending you lots of support and i am thinking of you.

Thanks- but if it were a close friend, and meant nothing- he would have explained and apologised. Our relationship is/was very very strong. 2 years of intimacy- (you know the safe kind- nothing weird)

He responded by saying" Sorry for the name confusion- I just woke up... blah, blah, blah- then some stuff we had been working on. I am afraid that whatever he tells me will only fall on deaf ears.

He has always been a great T. But now he has a girlfried and it isn't me. (My God- how sad is that- how pitiful) thought I was beyond this shit. I can't talk to him like I once did. I feel somehow betrayed- but that makes no sense in my head. IDK,IDK

Mayo, i hear you..but you cant be sertain that it is a girlfriend, can you? You know of course best here, but mybe your T wanted to explain it later, in session?

Hm, i dont mean to question your thoughts about this.. Your T has been a great T for you, and that fact doesnt change just all of a sudden, even thoug i fully understand why you would feel both betrayed and so so sad, over all this..
Mayo, I know its hard to belive, but it might be a good exllanation to this.. Can you think of any other options than, that the text was meant for a girlfriend?
Can you call him tomorrow? (if you want to of course)

Ohhh, Mayo...hold on, you don't know for sure yet what the meaning of his message is- though it seems to definitely need clarification for you.

But I don't think you should beat yourself for wanting to be "the one." For what it's worth, I would feel exactly the same way...who wouldn't, feel the same with a therapist we are attached to? We are in a vulnerable place in therapy...one that would make it hard for us, almost impossible, to "live up to" our own values..but we do this because it is neccessary for our healing. Anybody on this planet would react the same way. So don't feel bad about that.

The third thing is, that your T has dissappointed you, in his perceived bad moral behavior...and that makes you feel so betrayed because you want and need him to have standards. I can't say much about this until we hear more about your session Wednesday. Because you don't know- there really could be an innocent, understandable explanation...even though it really doesn't seem that way- you still need more information.

(((((Many comforting hugs)))))

this situation is terrible one to be in, and I really feel for you on so many different levels. But, he has said, we go deep so it is "our business"...I think you must find out, ask him...what does that mean? Please let us know how you are...what's up, because you are in a terrible, terrible position right now. Please take care...! Let us know, how it goes. It's not your fault.

Love,

BB

Frog (I love that name)

T has been with me through thick and thin- if there were an easy explanation- he would have said so. He has sent me 3 txts today filled with mumbo- jumbo that ordinarily I would think is so wise. It would be easy to clear it up if the explanation were easy. We have survived some pretty deep stuff- and TRUTH is a very big word- concept between us. Yet no answer after he says- "it is our business" I think he is at a loss for words. I think he does not know how to handle this either. It does make me question why am keeping my appointment on Wednesday- if I do. He always talks about being real- being honest- being transparent. I think he should start talking about being a shit.

thanks Beebs,

He has been counseling me in my marriaage- helping me come to some sort of a decision, because there is someone from my past who has come back into my life and is in love with me. T has been helping me work through this and telling me how it is and what it is that makes his marriage work. His wife is also a T- here locally.
I wish I was not so hurt and confused. I wish I were stronger. Thanks all for the support. Man- this is hard, hard.

Wow, that situation's harsh. I don't really know what to say. I completely understand you being hurt and how you wish you could be the special one (if this Karen means something to him).

I would just call him tomorrow and put off seeing him till I heard his explanation, and then decide from there if you want to go. I hate getting angry with people because I hate it when people are angry with me, so I guess I avoid confrontations sometimes.

~D.

I just txt him asking him- "What is truth?" We talk about this lots in terms of spiritual truths.

No answer yet.

I will never go to therapy again. Now I know what some of you mean- when you say that you need therapy because of your therapist. I quit, I am done.
You guys are free and I learn so much here and you don't lie; at least if any one ever does, I will never know it.

Wow, that is very confusing. I'm sorry that this happened and your T has not been able to explain thus far.

So, from what I understand the possibilities in your mind are:

1) This is another client and his intimate (not necessarily beyond word exchange) text to her makes you feel like he doesn't have genuine interactions with you?

2) This is a girlfriend. You know he is married and this puts you in the very awkward position of potentially being aware that he is being unfaithful to his wife.


Am I on the right track here? I'm sorry that you were put in this position. That would be really hard. (((hugs)))

... all of the above.

And more stuff that I do not understand. But the feeling is extreme sadness with anger.

... he is waking up in the morning and inviting her to spend the day with him!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Mayo:
... all of the above.

And more stuff that I do not understand. But the feeling is extreme sadness with anger.

... he is waking up in the morning and inviting her to spend the day with him!!!

Perhaps, or maybe it was more of a symbolic statement regarding some sort of thing between him and this person. It might not be what it looks like. I can understand why you are feeling the way that you are, but I would strongly encourage going into your session anyway (or at least calling him) to see what explanation he can offer. You owe it to yourself to be able to find out and try to process through this.

We do txt STRM, don't you think he would have answered my questions or at least tried to or invited me to call, or said something in the 3 txts he sent to me?

He said, Yea, sorry for the trigger..... blah, blah blah, He admits- that it is our business, after I said - "I will try to mind my own business" He could have offered something in any of the 3 (now I consider them bullshit) txts. But nothing.

And we were just resolving another transference/ counter transference issue- I triggered him, he triggered me- we both figured it out and moved on, but that was only 2 days ago. Therapy should not be this hard. How can I trust him? I would love to, but I just don't know how. I don't think I could believe him again.

Hi Mayo,
I'm sorry for what happened and all of your feelings are understandable. I would have found that a painful text to receive if his wife's name WAS Karen. So many of the same thoughts and feelings, of anger, betrayal, humilation, and hurt would have run through me.

And yet...

As STRM said, very wisely, you don't really know the meaning of this text nor to whom it was meant. My family has a very long standing habit of using quotes from movies to communicate with each other and have caused some real head scratchers for other people who overhear us and don't understand the context. You have no context aside from the all the painful possibilities that you leapt to (please know I'm not criticizing, I'd have done the same). You have a long, trusting relationship with this T, who has done you a lot of good. I would at least give him a chance to explain himself before you leave. There really is a chance that there is a reasonable explanation for the text that won't make you feel like it's impossible to continue working with him.

And if you're still unhappy after he explains himself at least you'll have only one nightmare scenario to deal with instead of rifling through 10 different ones and wondering which it is. If it's possible for you to call him, I would as I wouldn't want to wait to get this resolved.

But to just walk away would, I think, leave you with too many unresolved questions. I do think this was incredibly careless of your T but doesn't necessarily spell the end of your relationship.

Let us know.

AG

Hi Mayo,
Sorry I cross posted. I am so sorry that you think your trust is gone beyond recovery. I know how much he has meant to you and how painful this must be.

AG

Mayo,

Yes, I know that you text with him. I'm sorry if my post seemed insensitive as that was not my intent. Did you come straight out and tell him (prior to saying "Who's Karen?") that he had sent you the text by mistake? The reason I ask is that he may not have realized and thus what you were texting to him would not have been in context to him. Does that make sense?

I also frequently communicate with close friends and family with movie quotes or other things that would make no sense out of context so that is why I'm suggesting that there *may* be another explanation for his text to this Karen. I'm not saying that I don't understand your feelings about it or the ramifications of this if it is one of the scenarios that you are imagining. I know that this T has meant a great deal to you and you've done really good work together. I hope that there is some reason for this text and that you two can work through it.

Ag- you were right about soooo many things. I am thinking only bad.
Remember when he skied with my girlfriend and me, he came to my church, 2x, he showed me his brand of yoga, at the Y, I see him at the pool- so I know I have to resolve this somehow. All of this was very safe with boundries and all- nothing weird.
But I just.... Idk.
I don't know how to end the therapy even with an explanation, and I can't go on with it. I feel so lost. I trusted him like no one else in my life. I never had another T, never went to therapy before. What do I do?

When I discovered the txt, There were already 2. my phone had been on silent, so there were already 2 txts- the dancing in the Garden txt and the oops message. I waited about an hour before responding because I was sitting in church crying.

quote:

Originally posted by Mayo:
When I discovered the txt, There were already 2. my phone had been on silent, so there were already 2 txts- the dancing in the Garden txt and the oops message. I waited about an hour before responding because I was sitting in church crying.

Ok, I'm sorry I didn't understand that. I'm a bit out of it today. I didn't realize that he realized his mistake before you even texted back.

I wish there was an easy solution to this for you. The only thing I can think of is to go to your session (or call him before hand) and see what his explanation is. Based on that (and it would be easier for me personally to get a reading on his sincerity in person), you will then have to decide if it's something you can work past or not. I don't envy your position at all and I know it must be a terrible blow and very painful.

I was on the verge of sharing something itimate with him- some dream stuff. We had talked baout it last session, but even before any of this- i was hesitant to share this. Now there is no way i can deeply share stuff with him, and that is what therapy is about. He is adding to the cobwebs and the confusion, so I will see him and say good-bye, then what- IDK

You warned me AG- you warned me about putting him on a pedestal- did I listen- of course not, but I did not know how to not do that.

strm- I did not take any offence by anything you said, not to worry about that. I am just grieving- that can be healthy right? Greiving a loss, Bye T.
And in fairness to him (why the f should I be fair to him- idk- I guess cuz to be a decent person) I will go on Wednesday. But I aint sayin nothin. (I guess that wrong- not saying a thing)

quote:

Originally posted by Mayo:
strm- I did not take any offence by anything you said, not to worry about that. I am just grieving- that can be healthy right? Greiving a loss, Bye T.
And in fairness to him (why the f should I be fair to him- idk- I guess cuz to be a decent person) I will go on Wednesday. But I aint sayin nothin. (I guess that wrong- not saying a thing)

I don't think anything that you are feeling is wrong. I guess I'm just hoping that there is some reasonable explanation for all of this and that you don't have to lose the relationship over this mistake that he made in sending you this text. I'm sorry that you are hurting so much.

thanks STRM- I am writing some simple poetry to gather my thoughts- Here is what I have so far

T
Looking to you- losing myself
Studying your ways- ignoring mine
But-
Opening my heart- accepting possibilities
Listening to your truths, building mine
Putting you first and me last
That is ok-
For to love means giving up the important seat
But not at the expense of my dignity
************************************************************************
Time to separate – go to our own
Why does it feel like pulling-stretching-tearing apart?
You end-I begin
The glue is drying and we are not holding
Once bound by love and truth-now distanced by God’s calling
I must go
************************************************************************
I know I need you- it is in that need, I fear you.
I long to hear you – how to go on?
I must stop pretending- and admit we are ending
Oh how to go on?
***********************************************************************


God says to those who don’t belong here,
Come follow me
In order to gain your life, you must lose it- for my sake
Come follow me

Mayo I just found this thread and I'm so very sorry that you had to get such a hurtful harmful text message from your T. I do know how you feel when you find out that your T, who you believe is on some higher human plane is just very human and fallible and dishonest. A client should never find this out about a T. It's so damaging to the trust and the relationship.

I had to face the fact that my T lied to me so many times when he told me he would not abandon me, that he would always be there, when he promised me he would not turn away from me no matter what I told him, when he point blank swore on the phone that he was not terminating me and when he wrote to me that he would never reject me and then he did all of those things and in the most harmful, damaging, traumatic way possible.

I understand that what happens is that you begin to question every other word they ever uttered to you and everything gets labelled a lie or BS or being phoney. You find yourself saying well if he did this or said that it was a lie then what about everything else he told me? It's a really bad place to find yourself in with a T.

Aside from that, OMG, we ALL think that well if T EVER cheated on his wife it would be because he fell madly and insanely in love with me. Because I am his most special patient and he cares so much about me that he cannot resist falling in love with me and leaving his wife. We certainly never want it to be about either another woman in his real life or god forbid another patient! I imagine reading that text was like having ice water dumped on your head. Everything you believed about T or saw in him or thought you knew is now called into question. I'm so sorry this has happened to you Mayo. I know it hurt so badly and being in a position like this has to be so so hard for you.

I do think that you need to go to the session and to talk with him honestly. You have known him a long time and you have a deep relationship and have done a lot of work with him. It was a REAL relationship and to walk away just like that will haunt you. If he has a good and honest explanation you can decide if you can proceed with him. If you feel that he has damaged things beyond repair then you need to have some closure and I hope you will find it in this session or maybe even another one.

I do think you are feeling emotionally abandoned by your T because evidently, he cares a lot about Karen whoever she is. I wish I could do more to help you but I do enocurage you to go to the session and even if you do decide you can no longer work with him going forward, take a few sessions to work yourself out of the relationship, getting some closure and acknowledging the grief and the loss that you will be dealing with if you leave him.

One last note...there is help out there that I did not know about when I was having the impasse and rupture with my T this summer and that is the ability to call in an outside T as a consultant to see if the relationship can be saved in some way. There are Ts who do this work and the client has just as much right to call in a consultant as does the T. I posted about this on a thread here and I will see if I can find the link. I read about this in a very good and helpful book.

Hang in there Mayo and let us know how you are doing.

Hug
TN

I just can not remember being this sad in such a long time

quote:

Aside from that, OMG, we ALL think that well if T EVER cheated on his wife it would be because he fell madly and insanely in love with me. Because I am his most special patient and he cares so much about me that he cannot resist falling in love with me and leaving his wife. We certainly never want it to be about either another woman in his real life or god forbid another patient!

Thanks TN,
This part actually made me smile, because it is disgustingly accurate. I had to laugh.
What is hard- is that in spite of everything, i really think he is cool and wise and fantastic at what he does (except for today of course)
Also you are right on with the trusting issues. Do you, can you ever learn to trust that much again? I was such a risk. Almost like ...idk
I wrote a letter to him once, when I was deep into the trauma revelation stuff. I called it my "vomit" letter. After he read it, I told him to throw it away. He kissed it- and said" this is what I love- this is what I do" (ok- I am crying again)

quote:

"Everything will be ok in the end. If it's not ok, it's not the end." -Anonymous

I am hijacking your quote for tonight AG- I feel these words can give me some strength- although I don't know how they would apply.

Mayo, I'm so sorry. What a huge shock to the system. I have to agree with Frog & STRM and AG in thinking that you neeeeeeeeed to find out more about this situation before you go too far down any route with your emotional processing of this. Is there ANY way you can get into an earlier appointment? If it were me, I would want to get more information FAST. Either something's really really wrong, or it's not, and until you know you can't move yourself to true safety either way. I also think you won't be able to know or trust whatever T says about it unless you are looking at his face - even then it might be hard but that could help. I don't think this is something to deal with over text, and I don't think it's something you should have to sit on till Wednesday. My 2 cents.

Thinking of you and crossing my fingers that there is a solid, trustworthy explanation - but I can certainly see how awful this looks.

Wishing you luck and strength.

(((((((((Mayo)))))))))

Jones

http://psychcafe.ca/eve/forums...09181/m/562002992001

Mayo... this is the link to the thread about that book that talks about using an outside consultant when there is an impasse or rupture in the therapeutic relationship. I think you can read some of the book on google books.

I also agree with Jones in that I think you should ask for an earlier appointment and I would not want to even attempt to deal with is via email or text... or even the phone as I would have to see my Ts face as we discuss an explanation for what happened. I also would agree that waiting would be very difficult and I'm sure you are in a massive amount of pain right now at the betrayal of your T. Even though he didn't mean for you to find out about this, you did, and now you are suffering.

I would like to hold out hope that here is a very innocent explanation for all of this and perhaps we all need to wait to see if there is before judging. I hope for your sake that he has a good explantion... or at least an honest one for you. There are so many things we could be missing in all of this.

I wish I could help you more so I send you some hugs and wishes that all works out for the best.

TN

Thanks Jones.
I always respect your opinion, and i will see him on Wednesday, but I am in no hurry to make this happen as I feel it will be the end.
Not really jumping to conclusions, but if it was anything other than what it appears to be, I know he would have called or txt to explain it. I have liberal txting privlidges as does I guess all of his clients (idk) He talks about being real, he talks about honesty, so knowing how strained things are and knowing how distraught I am (maybe he does not knnow this, but he is a smart guy- so he knows)
When he said "it is our business" he was opening the dorr for me to ask, but since I am usually not very bold, he probably did not think I would but I point blank asked him, "Who is Karen" and no reply- after sending me a few bullshit txts.
No I don't want Wednesday to ever come. I would rather not have this meeting at all than confront him and have to say good bye.
I would have to do that not so much because he hurt me, but that too, but because he lied in a sense, or he at least misrepresented himself. And since I had him so high on an honesty and integrity pedestal, (my problem- I know) I won't be able to trust him any more, and that is so so sad for me. Sad to that this is the end. I want to part on good terms, but I want to be heard too, I want to be brave and clear as to the damage he has done, but my fear is that our relationship was just a hmm... whats the word- a rouge, false, fake based in nothing. I won't be shattered forever- because I see that our work, his- mine, has strengthened me, but the trust, that cannot be repaired.
So you see, I wish Wednesday would never come.

Mayo, I think about you today..how are you? I hope you by now have figured out, or heard from your T, or at least dont hurt so much.. Let us know how you cope (or not cope)?

ops; cross-posted here. I`ll suggest that you do bring up with him all these dissappintment, and let him HEAR you, tell him everything. No amtter waht the "truth" is about this case, your feelings regard to this must be heard and understood, in order to maintain the relationship between you. Have you concidered writing him a letter, in case you wount be able to express your anger and sadness, next appt.?

Thanks TN- somehow I missed your last post.

Yes I will resolve things face to face- but just not in any hurry to do this.
And yes, I will look at this article, though I doubt I will act on it.
See- if he is having an affair, truly that is his business, and he is human and his wife is a T locally, so I wouldn't go there.
I would not judge him on that account. as I can't throw stones in that dept and he is human, and all that. I am not a better person than he- because of it, it is just the breech of trust, and that if he was going to have a girlfriend-(so hard to say- but I know many of you understand this) I would want it to be me. This part I hate about the whole thing. Kind of - if he does not love me- I will quietly walk away. In my head this is all trauma shit, and if if ever made a move toward me in that way- Iwould freak, but that little person part of me is feeling rejected. While it is not final- a part of me has hope, but on Wednesday- I will know the finale- and no more hope. He would have explained himself by now if it was something other than what it is. I just pray it is ot another client. That would crush me, and all my ......can't think of the word...feelings of who he really is.
I go swimming on M W and Fridays at the Y and so does he. Usually when I am leaving I see his car in the lot, but we rarely see each oter (sometimes we do- but never on Mondays. This is going to be super awkward if I do.

Thanks Frog- just read yours- I will keep you posted.
Mst go to Y then work. Swimming helps, and You guys help lots
Thanks for being there. I will post later.

Dear Mayo,

I understand. After I wrote I thought hmm, would I really do that, or would I want time to collect myself?

What I hear in your posts is something almost like - forgive me if I'm wrong here - like you are *making* yourself accept the worst possibility here, perhaps to protect yourself in some way from confusion, or from being powerless if this is the case. I can really understand that in these circumstances. You have a huge amount at stake and it is very frightening to think of losing it in this way.

In any case, whatever the explanation, I think you are right that something *has* been already lost, in your finding so suddenly that he cares for another in such an intimate way. We are usually protected from seeing that in our Ts. I don't know if this means that your whole relationship is gone, but you have been torn out of that sanctuary in an awful way. I'm sorry.

Thinking of you. I hope you can take this time to shore yourself up in any way possible.

Jones

Thanks all-
Being at work helps during the day, but now my day is over so we'll see.

I will meet with him face to face Wednesday afternoon, and untill then I am trying to come up with a plan- of what to say. I want him to talk, but if I can- I would like to be pro-active.

I am fairly certain (barring some wild good samaratan story on his part- like he is rescuing a patient in severe distress- which on some level I can really imagine him doing)that I will be terminating therapy with him. However I will add that since we do see each other out and about, maybe we could just meet for coffee ( he does not drink coffee- but whatever, Mr Health conscious)and talk. I will also say that I do not want to stop talking to him, but I just don't feel the client therappist relationship can be repaired. I will offer that- and see what he says. If he says no- then I will offer- I can't make this decisions right now, so I want to think more about what is best for me to do.

I can't at this time- in spite of my hurt- anger (and without knowing the facts) just end seeing him. And as a client- he may not be able to tell me anything about this person anyway. So IDK- at least it is something. I still need time to think. So I am not changing my appointment, but I will update as I can. Until then- legal drugs do help.

Mayo, thanks for updating, i have been thinking about you. I understand that this session will be very essensial to what you decide to do. I am a bit surprised that you would offor seeing him for coffee- is that `apropriate` ?
I am glad work kept your mind busy for a while, i wish you good luck with the session, oh and i understand that you feel like having to make a plan, just for security, my guess is that your T will make a big effort to try to explain, if you ask and tell him that you concider the relation more or less broken. He should at least. I hope things will solve in a way, and i keep holding on to a hope that its still a good- or acceptable- explanation to the text. I might be naiv, i know. Sorry again, for all the pain and stress this has caused you. We`re still here, you know?

(((( Mayo ))))

I wish I had posted earlier - the replies people have given you have said everything I would have said, and more - so all I can do is give you loads of sympathy and good wishes.

I think you’re right to give yourself some time before talking to T - that text has made the ground shift for you and it makes perfect sense that you would be questioning your trust in him.

I’m glad you are still going to see him for usual session though, it is SO important to check out with him what exactly it was about - rather than having to rely on your own guesses and interpretations.

Hugs to you Mayo

LL

p.s. As usual I am late to post and I see you’ve posted an update since I started writing this - wow it sounds as if you’ve really made up your mind to terminate with him - I am hoping that that is anger and hurt speaking, and that once you do get to talk to him, he will be able to explain the text well enough that you won’t so profoundly betrayed by him

I'm so sorry for the hurt and confusion and pain this is causing you Mayo...I can't help also holding out the hope that there is a reasonable explanation that will allow you to stay with the therapist if that is what the best thing for you is...I really do beleive that it is best not to totally make up one's mind when in such a painful emotional place, and without all the pieces of the puzzle in place for you, yet...that being said, I totally understand and respect your reaction/decision, just hoping that if there ends up being a logical explanation, after all, *your* door will still be opened a crack for you not to still feel like you have to walk away, because "the decision was already made" or something...kwim? I don't know if it makes sense.

Thinking of you today...

BB

Frog, LL and BB,

Thanks- I will try not to close the door for good.

In fact, I have received 2 txts from him. the last one- a few minutes ago, and he told me who Karen is, but nothing more. She is a dear friend who he has known for a long time. He said other stuff about her, but nothing about his relationship with her. That was good of him- brave of him to offer that much. But I still think terminating is a good idea.

No not weird to have coffee- because I see him around, and we are always pleasant to each other. We get into these crazy deep spiritual conversations. Maybe that is enough of a connection- IDK.

Hi Mayo,
I'm glad to hear that your T at least gave you the info that it wasn't another patient. This is painful enough without it being another patient. I saw your comments about me warning you Mayo, but trust me, this is not a situation in which I wish to be right or to say I told you so. I am sorry for what you're going through. I do want to add my voice to those recommending that you try to keep your options open for Wednesday although I will totally understand and support whatever decision you make. I'm so sorry it's come to this as I know how highly you value you this relationship and for good reason. We'll be here for you through this.

AG