Thanks AG for your kind words, although I think perhaps she is a former client. This is what my gut tells me.
Dear Mayo,
You know, it occurs to me that I have one long-time very dear friend who might send that kind of message to me, and it wouldn't be inappropriate. He's been one of my closest friends for 15 years now. There was something fleetingly sexual between us way back when, but these days our intimacy is just deep, lively friendship - that friendship includes an unspoken appreciation of each other as sexual beings, but it's not tension, and we don't cross boundaries. We see each other rarely and don't have frequent contact, but if I was in town he might very well send that kind of thing. My husband knows him, they like each other very much, and my husband respects the closeness between us - it predates my husband and has never been a problem. My friend has always been supportive of my marriage, too.
So - I dunno, I know you need to protect yourself right now, and there are lots of other less 'safe' explanations that are also possible. But I wanted to share that scenario with you in case it is helpful.
Jones
You know, it occurs to me that I have one long-time very dear friend who might send that kind of message to me, and it wouldn't be inappropriate. He's been one of my closest friends for 15 years now. There was something fleetingly sexual between us way back when, but these days our intimacy is just deep, lively friendship - that friendship includes an unspoken appreciation of each other as sexual beings, but it's not tension, and we don't cross boundaries. We see each other rarely and don't have frequent contact, but if I was in town he might very well send that kind of thing. My husband knows him, they like each other very much, and my husband respects the closeness between us - it predates my husband and has never been a problem. My friend has always been supportive of my marriage, too.
So - I dunno, I know you need to protect yourself right now, and there are lots of other less 'safe' explanations that are also possible. But I wanted to share that scenario with you in case it is helpful.
Jones
Dear Mayo,
I'm not sure how appropriate my last message was - I'm sorry if it was unhelpful or even hurtful. I'm going to leave it up for now in case there is something in it, but I do want to say that I know even if it does help a little bit to hold in mind the possibility of some kind of non-skeezy or less-skeezy scenario, I understand completely that the possible skeeziness is just one bit of the picture here. There's a whole lot of other stuff about the awfulness of slamming into the boundaries of the therapy relationship through seeing a relationship of his that is not boundaried in the same way. Horrible.
In any event, I should also say that I don't know that I'm any kind of judge of skeeziness, my boundaries are all over the place. Mostly I just want to say that I can hear how powerfully you want to get away from those boundaries one way or another. I would too.
Take care.
Jones
I'm not sure how appropriate my last message was - I'm sorry if it was unhelpful or even hurtful. I'm going to leave it up for now in case there is something in it, but I do want to say that I know even if it does help a little bit to hold in mind the possibility of some kind of non-skeezy or less-skeezy scenario, I understand completely that the possible skeeziness is just one bit of the picture here. There's a whole lot of other stuff about the awfulness of slamming into the boundaries of the therapy relationship through seeing a relationship of his that is not boundaried in the same way. Horrible.
In any event, I should also say that I don't know that I'm any kind of judge of skeeziness, my boundaries are all over the place. Mostly I just want to say that I can hear how powerfully you want to get away from those boundaries one way or another. I would too.
Take care.
Jones
How ya doing today, Mayo///hope you are ok, hunny.
Love,
Beebs
Love,
Beebs
Actually Jones,
Your post was extremely useful, and that is exactly what I am hoping for. After talking to him again through a few txts, I can almost imagine that as a possibility. I hope your scenerio is correct.
I can never imagine skeeziness with him. Hie is too proessional and well respected in these parts, so I doubt that. Everytime he has extended the boundry walls with me- attending my church on Good Friday, coming to my Baptism, sking once, the YMCA, teaching me Bikrims yoga one time- he has been nothing but absolutely professional, with no boundry crossing. He sat with my daughter and I in Church once because I asked him to go. He does not even worship in the same religion as me. T has extended himself beyond the walls, but always professional. I am not worried about skeeziness.
I just am very unsure where to go after tomorrow.
And there is a small part of me that believes she might be a former client, but I don't know why I feel that way.
Looking for strength and courage to make my voice heard tomorrow.
I wonder if he will tell me more about her. I am very curious.
Thanks everyone, I will let you know.
Beebs- I am doing better, AG and everyone- thanks as always for your support,
Your post was extremely useful, and that is exactly what I am hoping for. After talking to him again through a few txts, I can almost imagine that as a possibility. I hope your scenerio is correct.
I can never imagine skeeziness with him. Hie is too proessional and well respected in these parts, so I doubt that. Everytime he has extended the boundry walls with me- attending my church on Good Friday, coming to my Baptism, sking once, the YMCA, teaching me Bikrims yoga one time- he has been nothing but absolutely professional, with no boundry crossing. He sat with my daughter and I in Church once because I asked him to go. He does not even worship in the same religion as me. T has extended himself beyond the walls, but always professional. I am not worried about skeeziness.
I just am very unsure where to go after tomorrow.
And there is a small part of me that believes she might be a former client, but I don't know why I feel that way.
Looking for strength and courage to make my voice heard tomorrow.
I wonder if he will tell me more about her. I am very curious.
Thanks everyone, I will let you know.
Beebs- I am doing better, AG and everyone- thanks as always for your support,
Hi Mayo,
Just thinking of you tonight, knowing you are worried about tomorrow. I'm just curious about all the things your T has done with you. I can't imagine my T ever doing that with anyone but then again, I don't know what he does with other people. He just seems to have very rigid boundaries. My old T's boundaries were looser and that can really blur the line between friendship and therapy. Just a little concerned for you Mayo, that's all. Hope you are not offended that I mention this.
Just thinking of you tonight, knowing you are worried about tomorrow. I'm just curious about all the things your T has done with you. I can't imagine my T ever doing that with anyone but then again, I don't know what he does with other people. He just seems to have very rigid boundaries. My old T's boundaries were looser and that can really blur the line between friendship and therapy. Just a little concerned for you Mayo, that's all. Hope you are not offended that I mention this.
Not at all- not offended.
I don't know why it has worked, but it has. There is a type of therapy that involves this and I know I am not the only client he extends himself to, but it works- (or it did- we will see)
Once we ended up in the sauna, at the Y. That was completely by accident, but even that was ok. I don't know how he does that- but he has a way of drawing the tension out of a situation. (Let's see how successful he is tomorrow)
If I see him in public- he always takes his cues from me, and during thes times we never talk about T stuff. the conversaton is light and ok.
Now that I have a plan- I am avoiding thinking about tomorrow- beginning to dread it actually.
I don't know why it has worked, but it has. There is a type of therapy that involves this and I know I am not the only client he extends himself to, but it works- (or it did- we will see)
Once we ended up in the sauna, at the Y. That was completely by accident, but even that was ok. I don't know how he does that- but he has a way of drawing the tension out of a situation. (Let's see how successful he is tomorrow)
If I see him in public- he always takes his cues from me, and during thes times we never talk about T stuff. the conversaton is light and ok.
Now that I have a plan- I am avoiding thinking about tomorrow- beginning to dread it actually.
Good luck tomorrow ... I will be checking in to see how things went ... What time is your appointment?
My T lives in another township and I am sooo grateful ... I couldn't imagine running into him ... and would actually dread it ...
so, I don't know how you do it ....
My T lives in another township and I am sooo grateful ... I couldn't imagine running into him ... and would actually dread it ...
so, I don't know how you do it ....
Mayo I just wanted to say that I'm thinking of you and wish the best for you tomorrow. I know you are going through a very difficult time and getting that text was shocking and upsetting and I want to offer you my support. I hope his explanation satisfies you and that you come to some type of resolution that you can live with.
Hugs
TN
Hugs
TN
good luck, tomorrow, Mayo...thinking sending good thoughts your way tonight.
Love,
Beebs
Love,
Beebs
Thank you Beebs, Tn and Liese,
The little bit of calm I felt yesterday has gone. It is 5:50 am and I should be leaving for the pool- my morning swim, but I just can't do it. Wednesdays are the only possible days that I see him. In fact I saw him last Wednesday cuz he came to the pool a 1/2 hour early- so our swim times crossed and he was in the pool at 7 and my swim time is 6:30 -7;15 so I can't go. I can't run into him today. I don't know if he was permanently changing his swim time or just for that day. He has 2 offices and he runs his kids Company so how does he have time for Karen. I know this is not making asy sence but sometimes getting the thoughts out of my head helps. Ithink if I get them out they wont be running around so fast in my head.
I know swimming is the cure for this because it relaxes me- I guess self care, but what if he is there? It is 6:08 I should have left by now, so I guess I am not going. I know this is dribble and incoherant but I have to do something.
My appointment is at 1:30. He always schedules appointments on the hour- never on the 1/2 hour but this was my doing- so do I get a 1/2 hour appointment or an hour and a half? or still an hour. I only need a few minutes to tell him that I am ending therapy. Sorry- I am freaking out a bit. Prayers help so if you believe in prayers- please pray for me- that I can be calm and express my needs clearly- but I don't knwo what I need. I need a clear expla nation from him about what exactly our relationship is and what happens to us if I terminate. What happens to us if I don't. Too late to swim now. That is my source of calm. Maybe I should cancel and wait untill next week to see him- a day that I can swim first. Can you tell that anxiety is one of my issues? I need to get the little bit of assuredness back that I had when I was making my plan.
Anyway I will post later and let you know whst the day looked like. Please pray for me- for calm, clarity and strength. Thanks
Mayo
The little bit of calm I felt yesterday has gone. It is 5:50 am and I should be leaving for the pool- my morning swim, but I just can't do it. Wednesdays are the only possible days that I see him. In fact I saw him last Wednesday cuz he came to the pool a 1/2 hour early- so our swim times crossed and he was in the pool at 7 and my swim time is 6:30 -7;15 so I can't go. I can't run into him today. I don't know if he was permanently changing his swim time or just for that day. He has 2 offices and he runs his kids Company so how does he have time for Karen. I know this is not making asy sence but sometimes getting the thoughts out of my head helps. Ithink if I get them out they wont be running around so fast in my head.
I know swimming is the cure for this because it relaxes me- I guess self care, but what if he is there? It is 6:08 I should have left by now, so I guess I am not going. I know this is dribble and incoherant but I have to do something.
My appointment is at 1:30. He always schedules appointments on the hour- never on the 1/2 hour but this was my doing- so do I get a 1/2 hour appointment or an hour and a half? or still an hour. I only need a few minutes to tell him that I am ending therapy. Sorry- I am freaking out a bit. Prayers help so if you believe in prayers- please pray for me- that I can be calm and express my needs clearly- but I don't knwo what I need. I need a clear expla nation from him about what exactly our relationship is and what happens to us if I terminate. What happens to us if I don't. Too late to swim now. That is my source of calm. Maybe I should cancel and wait untill next week to see him- a day that I can swim first. Can you tell that anxiety is one of my issues? I need to get the little bit of assuredness back that I had when I was making my plan.
Anyway I will post later and let you know whst the day looked like. Please pray for me- for calm, clarity and strength. Thanks
Mayo
Thinking of you this morning, Mayo.
Mayo..its going to be ok. I am thinking of you, and hope you`ll get the explanations you need, in order to make the best out of this. I understand why you wouldnt go to the pool, too..its really not the best timing running into your T now, uh? I think your session is over by now, let us know how it went if you want to!
All the best- and meny meny good lucks your way!
All the best- and meny meny good lucks your way!
Hi Mayo,
I will be praying for you today, for peace, wisdom and insight. I hope you are able to heal this rupture and find your way out of the painful place you're in.
****Before you read on, I want to tell you that I really struggled with whether I should say the rest of this post, especially knowing that you are in a fragile state right now, so if you know you don't want to hear anything else right now, skip the rest of my post or even tell me to delete it. ****
I do want to make clear that what I'm about to say is a concern and not a certainty in my mind. This is your therapy and your therapist and you know the situation so much better than I ever will. But you said something that really struck me and made my heart ache for you:
Mayo, you've been seeing your therapist for at least several years that I know of and I find it disturbing that you need to ask this question now. I dealt with a lot of confusion during therapy but never about the nature of my relationship with my T or what would happen to us when I terminated (aside from what communications would be ok with him). Our relationship was within therapy and only within therapy. My T made it crystal clear from the word go, whenever I discussed boundaries, that our relationship would take place within his office. That in that space, I had perfect freedom to express and discuss anything and everthing that I wanted. That all my feelings were welcome in his office. And he meant every word of it. But that was it. He had the boundaries and nothing would happen outside that perimeter. Which may sound almost cruel, but the truth is that in many ways the theraputic relationship is unnatural and totally unlike any other relationship we experience. The boundaries can be very painful and frustrating at times, but when they're clear I believe it saves more pain in the long run. It was hard enough to deal with the loss inherent in my leaving therapy without having to wonder if there would be anything else. That's not to say that I didn't want more or even that I hoped for more. But I have been spared the deep pain of betrayal, that my T never held out the promise of anything he couldn't provide.
And this is what concerns me about your T. You have been very clear that he has boundaries and I agree. I do not think he would use the power differential to exploit you in any way to meet his own needs. But in areas short of that, I'm not sure that he's been clear enough. You keep saying that he has been very professional, but forgive me, Mayo, the only "professional" you should be snow-boarding with is a snow-boarding instructor. I think his engaging in activities with you which unless they are addressing specific problems and have been thorougly discussed, such as dining out to handle social anxiety, are outside the scope of therapy is what has you so confused now. There is not a clear enough line around what your relationship is and isn't. And I think that's at least part of why you are in so much pain right now. His failure to "contain" the therapy may have ruined it for you. I have wondered if part of the reason you are so convinced that Karen is a patient is because if she is, as painful as it would be to see him have that relationship with another client, it also holds out the hope of you having that kind of relationship with him. Which is just unspeakably cruel to dangle in front of you if it's never going to happen.
Please know I say this out of concern for you, that you would be able to protect yourself from being hurt any further. And I want to again emphasize that I could be way off base. I do realize that every theraputic dyad is unique and finds what works for them. As I talked about on Frog's thread, my therapist has done some stuff that I know would make people look askance, especially in taking on my husband and I both individually and as a couple. You are a much better judge of what is happening then I can ever be.
Whatever happens and however it turns out, we'll be here.
AG
I will be praying for you today, for peace, wisdom and insight. I hope you are able to heal this rupture and find your way out of the painful place you're in.
****Before you read on, I want to tell you that I really struggled with whether I should say the rest of this post, especially knowing that you are in a fragile state right now, so if you know you don't want to hear anything else right now, skip the rest of my post or even tell me to delete it. ****
I do want to make clear that what I'm about to say is a concern and not a certainty in my mind. This is your therapy and your therapist and you know the situation so much better than I ever will. But you said something that really struck me and made my heart ache for you:
quote:I need a clear explanation from him about what exactly our relationship is and what happens to us if I terminate.
Mayo, you've been seeing your therapist for at least several years that I know of and I find it disturbing that you need to ask this question now. I dealt with a lot of confusion during therapy but never about the nature of my relationship with my T or what would happen to us when I terminated (aside from what communications would be ok with him). Our relationship was within therapy and only within therapy. My T made it crystal clear from the word go, whenever I discussed boundaries, that our relationship would take place within his office. That in that space, I had perfect freedom to express and discuss anything and everthing that I wanted. That all my feelings were welcome in his office. And he meant every word of it. But that was it. He had the boundaries and nothing would happen outside that perimeter. Which may sound almost cruel, but the truth is that in many ways the theraputic relationship is unnatural and totally unlike any other relationship we experience. The boundaries can be very painful and frustrating at times, but when they're clear I believe it saves more pain in the long run. It was hard enough to deal with the loss inherent in my leaving therapy without having to wonder if there would be anything else. That's not to say that I didn't want more or even that I hoped for more. But I have been spared the deep pain of betrayal, that my T never held out the promise of anything he couldn't provide.
And this is what concerns me about your T. You have been very clear that he has boundaries and I agree. I do not think he would use the power differential to exploit you in any way to meet his own needs. But in areas short of that, I'm not sure that he's been clear enough. You keep saying that he has been very professional, but forgive me, Mayo, the only "professional" you should be snow-boarding with is a snow-boarding instructor. I think his engaging in activities with you which unless they are addressing specific problems and have been thorougly discussed, such as dining out to handle social anxiety, are outside the scope of therapy is what has you so confused now. There is not a clear enough line around what your relationship is and isn't. And I think that's at least part of why you are in so much pain right now. His failure to "contain" the therapy may have ruined it for you. I have wondered if part of the reason you are so convinced that Karen is a patient is because if she is, as painful as it would be to see him have that relationship with another client, it also holds out the hope of you having that kind of relationship with him. Which is just unspeakably cruel to dangle in front of you if it's never going to happen.
Please know I say this out of concern for you, that you would be able to protect yourself from being hurt any further. And I want to again emphasize that I could be way off base. I do realize that every theraputic dyad is unique and finds what works for them. As I talked about on Frog's thread, my therapist has done some stuff that I know would make people look askance, especially in taking on my husband and I both individually and as a couple. You are a much better judge of what is happening then I can ever be.
Whatever happens and however it turns out, we'll be here.
AG
Hi Frog- not over yet. 2 and a half more hours to go. Thanks for thinking of me. Trying very hard to stay calm.
AG- Leave your post, I will read it later- after my session. Thanks for caring.
Liese- always thank you for your support.
Liese- always thank you for your support.
((((((((Mayo)))))))))
(((((Mayo)))) hugs from me too...prayers, too.
BB
BB
Mayo,
Just checking in to see how you are doing? You okay? Did things go okay today? Hope you are okay.
Just checking in to see how you are doing? You okay? Did things go okay today? Hope you are okay.
I am rather numb actually.
Usually it takes a few days to process how I feel about something.
T told me no more aout Karen- I did not push it.
I told him about ending therapy- I wish he showed a bit more caring about it- but whatever.
I asked him what our relationship would look like after therapy- and he put that back on me. (He remembers my romantic feelings for him from over a year ago- have not discussed any of that for a long time, but he remembers. I didnot want to go there.)He said a few things about it- I said nothing, then added in regard to our relationship- we could certainly compromise. He laughed, nothing was settled.
He is too busy for a friendship.
He wanted to talk about Christ, I didn't really - this is our stumbling block.
We joked about the dream he still wanted to hear about, and I still did not want to tell him. So I didn't. (by the conversation and his questions I think he thinks it is erotic, but it isn't)
I don't know how I feel about anything yet.
I did not make an appointment- he said "call me".
I am feeling a sense of loss at this time.
He mentioned about going to my Church again- but ???
He gave me the book on meditation that he was so excited about, the one he couldn't wait to give me- Immediately I noticed it was written by a Catholic monk- he never cared about Catholocism. His Sunday morning dancing friend is Catholic- so I preseume this book he raves about is from the garden dancer. Ok - the first feelins to register now is sadness. Later.
Thanks for hearing my Saga.
Usually it takes a few days to process how I feel about something.
T told me no more aout Karen- I did not push it.
I told him about ending therapy- I wish he showed a bit more caring about it- but whatever.
I asked him what our relationship would look like after therapy- and he put that back on me. (He remembers my romantic feelings for him from over a year ago- have not discussed any of that for a long time, but he remembers. I didnot want to go there.)He said a few things about it- I said nothing, then added in regard to our relationship- we could certainly compromise. He laughed, nothing was settled.
He is too busy for a friendship.
He wanted to talk about Christ, I didn't really - this is our stumbling block.
We joked about the dream he still wanted to hear about, and I still did not want to tell him. So I didn't. (by the conversation and his questions I think he thinks it is erotic, but it isn't)
I don't know how I feel about anything yet.
I did not make an appointment- he said "call me".
I am feeling a sense of loss at this time.
He mentioned about going to my Church again- but ???
He gave me the book on meditation that he was so excited about, the one he couldn't wait to give me- Immediately I noticed it was written by a Catholic monk- he never cared about Catholocism. His Sunday morning dancing friend is Catholic- so I preseume this book he raves about is from the garden dancer. Ok - the first feelins to register now is sadness. Later.
Thanks for hearing my Saga.
Hi Mayo,
It sounds sad and disappointing. I am sorry that things did not go well. Take care of yourself tonight.
It sounds sad and disappointing. I am sorry that things did not go well. Take care of yourself tonight.
((((Mayo)))),
Thinking of you.
Thinking of you.
Mayo, I'm so sorry, it sounds like you came away with so little. ((((Mayo)))))
AG
AG
Mayo I'm sorry you had such a disappointing and unproductive session with little to no answers about anything you really needed to know.
I don't know what to say to you. I know you are numb but also so very sad. I'm thinking of you and sending you hugs.
TN
I don't know what to say to you. I know you are numb but also so very sad. I'm thinking of you and sending you hugs.
TN
Thinking of you Mayo, I'm so sorry that you came away feeling so lost. (((((Mayo))))
BB
BB
Thank you one and all-
Today is Thanksgiving day, and I am going to do my best to make it just that- a day of thanks- in spite of him.
This is what I know:
The more mature spiritual side of me is saying- T is not your purpose. Which means in spiritual terms I am not the one to show him who Christ is. My faith is strong and this will carry me through if I place all of my trust here.
The wounded child is the one that is the saddest, don't know quite how to deal with that yet - give her to God, daily in prayer, I think.
The somewhat seductive side of me is bruised, but turning my back- and dismissing him. More of an I don't care about him anyway, attitude.
And then there is the adult part of me that just thinks he is a wonderful, giving, benevolent, guy, so cool- and so interesting that I just want to hang out with him.
Still numb- but for today I am giving all of these sides of me to God and - come what may.
Happy Thankgiving to the Americans, and to all others that do not celebrate this day- I wish you the peace, joy and love that only THE Father can give. He is sustaining me today. Life is one day at a time, so today is HIS, and I feel it.
Today I am ok.
Today is Thanksgiving day, and I am going to do my best to make it just that- a day of thanks- in spite of him.
This is what I know:
The more mature spiritual side of me is saying- T is not your purpose. Which means in spiritual terms I am not the one to show him who Christ is. My faith is strong and this will carry me through if I place all of my trust here.
The wounded child is the one that is the saddest, don't know quite how to deal with that yet - give her to God, daily in prayer, I think.
The somewhat seductive side of me is bruised, but turning my back- and dismissing him. More of an I don't care about him anyway, attitude.
And then there is the adult part of me that just thinks he is a wonderful, giving, benevolent, guy, so cool- and so interesting that I just want to hang out with him.
Still numb- but for today I am giving all of these sides of me to God and - come what may.
Happy Thankgiving to the Americans, and to all others that do not celebrate this day- I wish you the peace, joy and love that only THE Father can give. He is sustaining me today. Life is one day at a time, so today is HIS, and I feel it.
Today I am ok.
Monte- Clearly we are like minded.
This is what I was trying to share with my T. Thank you for that, and yes to all of it.
You are helping me to realise that I was trying to take care of him in this way too. (never thought of it as taking care of him) He still refuses this free gift- and knowing that- will help me be able to know that it is him- his problem - his destiny. I was just called to bring the message. That is the spiritual connection. The other connections are from the trauma crap, and for now I will seek healing- from the Greatest Healer.
I just have to think only about today.
Thanks Monte, and God Bless you too.
This is what I was trying to share with my T. Thank you for that, and yes to all of it.
You are helping me to realise that I was trying to take care of him in this way too. (never thought of it as taking care of him) He still refuses this free gift- and knowing that- will help me be able to know that it is him- his problem - his destiny. I was just called to bring the message. That is the spiritual connection. The other connections are from the trauma crap, and for now I will seek healing- from the Greatest Healer.
I just have to think only about today.
Thanks Monte, and God Bless you too.
T just sent me 2 txts- ah- what to do.
Contains well wishes for the day and some spiritual stuff. The spiritual stuff has the pull back. I am thinkins of severing the relationship.
I need to let it go- for the day, and rest in Him.
Contains well wishes for the day and some spiritual stuff. The spiritual stuff has the pull back. I am thinkins of severing the relationship.
I need to let it go- for the day, and rest in Him.
quote:He had the boundaries and nothing would happen outside that perimeter. Which may sound almost cruel, but the truth is that in many ways the theraputic relationship is unnatural and totally unlike any other relationship we experience.
AG- I read the remainder of your post. And I agree. It is just that my therapy is different.- (I think- I could be wrong) Early on, I wanted to quit because all of the good stuff happening in therapy had absolutely no connection to the real world- so I thought therapy was such a waste of time and money because- He could not be real to me in the real world, and there was no one in my world like this. I saw not connection. So what was the point of therapy. I was quitting because the warmth of our relationship was such a stark contrast to my world outside of therapy. This caused only more pain for me. Hense- I think- the exteneded connection was a bridge. He was a role model of someone who cared. For me- I am not against this, though I do not think it is usual or right for many.
With all of my pain- I feel strong enough to walk away. I will if I must. As a matter of fact, I paid him all that I owed him, and left it- without an appointment. And as hard as that is- it is not killing me. Read - if you want, the sides of me and how this loss is affecting me. I am truly leaving it up to God- and I rest in that (at least for todday)
I asked for a friendship, mainly because of our spiritual discussions. Yesterday- the answer was no. He txt me this morning and said- no one has ever asked him that in his 30 years of practice, and - we'll work on it. I just answered him with a heartfelt Thankgiving message.
He sent another txt- to which I feel comfortable dealing with another day- The dream, so I am not answering him on this. I told him it was not an erotic thing, and he just responed with - basically since I kept it to myself, he could only guess. I am not responding today.
We have similar interests, and the "in love with T" part is not fueling this decision.
I might be making a huge mistake- but right now I am letting it be.
I won't be making another appointment though. So we will see.
Today- I feel like I could walk away- now that is powerful.
thanksfor caring AG, I know you have my best interests at heart. HAPPY THANKGIVING! I can smell the turkey.
HI Mayo,
Been following to see how you are doing. Wondering what you meant what you referred to the pullback.
Been following to see how you are doing. Wondering what you meant what you referred to the pullback.
Hi Liese,
Mentally in preparation, thinking this might be my last visit, I have been rather distancing myself from my T. I have been feeling fairly strong, (in spite of many triggers), and he thinks I am strong- so ending therapy had been on my mind before this confusion, so mentally pulling away from him- trying to see what therapy 1x a month would look like, (did not get to that however, but I have stretched it out to 3 weeks, and that has been ok.
Feeling of rejections from him have bees surfacing- probably me, but ??? so I confronted him with what would our relationship look like after termination- any possibility of a distant friendship. He indicated to the negative- stupid excuses- rather than an honest barrier reason. then he txts this morning saying that we can talk about it - hense the pullback.
I do my best to be blantantly honest with him- and I am. I just don't tell him everything.
IDK if I am making any sense- tryptifane in the turkey has me sleepy. I do realize that this might be a huge error, but our discussions about God and relationships have me intrigued. these discussions are not new, and we both find them beneficial to our growth. I just dont know if this is really therapy any more, and he is expensive. So we will see. I am being very cautious. thanks.
Sorry i did not realise that I am repeating myself.
Mentally in preparation, thinking this might be my last visit, I have been rather distancing myself from my T. I have been feeling fairly strong, (in spite of many triggers), and he thinks I am strong- so ending therapy had been on my mind before this confusion, so mentally pulling away from him- trying to see what therapy 1x a month would look like, (did not get to that however, but I have stretched it out to 3 weeks, and that has been ok.
Feeling of rejections from him have bees surfacing- probably me, but ??? so I confronted him with what would our relationship look like after termination- any possibility of a distant friendship. He indicated to the negative- stupid excuses- rather than an honest barrier reason. then he txts this morning saying that we can talk about it - hense the pullback.
I do my best to be blantantly honest with him- and I am. I just don't tell him everything.
IDK if I am making any sense- tryptifane in the turkey has me sleepy. I do realize that this might be a huge error, but our discussions about God and relationships have me intrigued. these discussions are not new, and we both find them beneficial to our growth. I just dont know if this is really therapy any more, and he is expensive. So we will see. I am being very cautious. thanks.
Sorry i did not realise that I am repeating myself.
you aren't repeating yourself...no apologies are neccessary. Ah, sweet trytophan coma..too bad I'm making chicken.
Mayo, I am concerned that your T:
Something here, I am not sure what....concerns me. Are you looking for...even *needing*...something beyond the therapeutic boundary?
ouch, Mayo...that's all I have to say...a very serious ouch.
Beebs
Mayo, I am concerned that your T:
quote:He indicated to the negative- stupid excuses- rather than an honest barrier reason. then he txts this morning saying that we can talk about it - hense the pullback.
Something here, I am not sure what....concerns me. Are you looking for...even *needing*...something beyond the therapeutic boundary?
ouch, Mayo...that's all I have to say...a very serious ouch.
Beebs
I am not too sure of wht you mean BB. He said in session that he is very busy with his business, and his work- so basicallly no time to talk to me. That was clearly the message yesterday. I took this to be the truth- so he was being dismissive to me. It hurt- but then the silent-" I dont give a shit part of me" paid him in full and left, with the intent of not looking back (I don't know how long that would have lasted, but I am sstill ok with it if that is for the best) Finding this answer through lots and lots of prayer.
then he txted me a few times this morning- and said we'll talk. I don't yet know what that means. I am reading a book that he gave me- about meditation- Open Mind, open Heart I am not sure that i answered your concern, though.
What is hard- is there are other connections- socially I have not mentioned- loose ones.
I am a teacher- he runs a company with his sons. Many of my students know him and his sons, beause they buy the products his kids (in their 20's) sell. My studenst know him, and he knows a few of them. (of course the client therapist relationship is confidential) I have seen him at quick check, and many other places- without stalking him- really. His office is near my moms house. Soooo. to stop and have a chat every now and again is not a big deal- hows the kids, the family, the dog...
Make sense?
then he txted me a few times this morning- and said we'll talk. I don't yet know what that means. I am reading a book that he gave me- about meditation- Open Mind, open Heart I am not sure that i answered your concern, though.
What is hard- is there are other connections- socially I have not mentioned- loose ones.
I am a teacher- he runs a company with his sons. Many of my students know him and his sons, beause they buy the products his kids (in their 20's) sell. My studenst know him, and he knows a few of them. (of course the client therapist relationship is confidential) I have seen him at quick check, and many other places- without stalking him- really. His office is near my moms house. Soooo. to stop and have a chat every now and again is not a big deal- hows the kids, the family, the dog...
Make sense?
aw, I'm sorry Mayo...not trying to push any buttons. Just concerned that he seems to be not so much a boundary ninja, but obviously, you are the one who knows the situation and what you need from it, and are thinking and praying a lot. It's just so hard to be in situation where we would literally give anything to be with the therapist in a friendship...I know it well. I've been longing badly for my T today, and knowing that I can't have that kind of relationship with him is awfully painful. If he held out the possibility of it to me, I would snap at it too..whether it was good for me or not. 
I'm just sorry to see you suffering so much.
Maybe I'm not understanding the situation...
be well, prayers,
Beebs
I'm just sorry to see you suffering so much.Maybe I'm not understanding the situation...
be well, prayers,
Beebs
Dear Mayo,
I don't know, I feel concerned about you in this situation. I'm really not sure from your posts what has been said or not said in your session or texts. I think from the level of upset you are dealing with here I can see why you wouldn't want to write about it blow by blow but - I'm concerned that so much seems to be under the surface still.
Does your T know that you think it's likely he's having an affair, on the basis of his Karen text, and that this is extremely destabilising to your therapy relationship? Does he know that it deeply affects you on the level of the trust you've given him to guide you in your own relationship? Does he know that it has thrown you into a really urgent desire to reconfigure the boundaries of the relationship you do have? Does he know that you are reeling and hurt and without trustworthy guidance at the moment?
I get that you are turning to God right now, Mayo, and I am glad you are finding solace there. But I'm worried that you are burying the trauma of this accidental breach of boundaries. I'm worried that by burying it you may lose the opportunity to cleanly, quickly and clearly establish the reality of the situation for both of you and to act accordingly for your own safety. I would be upset to see you give him a 'get out of jail free' card for his deeply problematic error by trading your therapeutic relationship for an unclearly bounded friendship.
I am giving you a really strong opinion here and I qualify it by saying, as I think BB said, that you know more about this than we do, and that I may well be reading this wrongly. But my opinion is that you *need* clarity and honesty about this situation. He made it 'your business' by sending you that text. He admits that. Hold him to it. USE your anger to get what you need - don't just squash it or tune it out or give up. You deserve so much more. You deserve a clear picture of what is so, so that you can either get a clean end or a clean way forward. I *know* that the stakes are SO high and that the fear of losing all will be pressing extremely hard on you right now. But I would hate to see you trading *yourself* in order to hold on to someone else.
Thinking of you - wishing you well.
Jones
I don't know, I feel concerned about you in this situation. I'm really not sure from your posts what has been said or not said in your session or texts. I think from the level of upset you are dealing with here I can see why you wouldn't want to write about it blow by blow but - I'm concerned that so much seems to be under the surface still.
Does your T know that you think it's likely he's having an affair, on the basis of his Karen text, and that this is extremely destabilising to your therapy relationship? Does he know that it deeply affects you on the level of the trust you've given him to guide you in your own relationship? Does he know that it has thrown you into a really urgent desire to reconfigure the boundaries of the relationship you do have? Does he know that you are reeling and hurt and without trustworthy guidance at the moment?
I get that you are turning to God right now, Mayo, and I am glad you are finding solace there. But I'm worried that you are burying the trauma of this accidental breach of boundaries. I'm worried that by burying it you may lose the opportunity to cleanly, quickly and clearly establish the reality of the situation for both of you and to act accordingly for your own safety. I would be upset to see you give him a 'get out of jail free' card for his deeply problematic error by trading your therapeutic relationship for an unclearly bounded friendship.
I am giving you a really strong opinion here and I qualify it by saying, as I think BB said, that you know more about this than we do, and that I may well be reading this wrongly. But my opinion is that you *need* clarity and honesty about this situation. He made it 'your business' by sending you that text. He admits that. Hold him to it. USE your anger to get what you need - don't just squash it or tune it out or give up. You deserve so much more. You deserve a clear picture of what is so, so that you can either get a clean end or a clean way forward. I *know* that the stakes are SO high and that the fear of losing all will be pressing extremely hard on you right now. But I would hate to see you trading *yourself* in order to hold on to someone else.
Thinking of you - wishing you well.
Jones
Jones-
You have given me so much to think about. I never saw it in this light. You may very well be exactly right. And my answer being- distance myself emotionally, but not cutting him off completely. Cutting him off completely would be too painful. There is a part of me that wants the truth, then there is the child part that just wants to hold him in the pedestal light and not see the flaws- the truth of who he is.
I value honesty and being real above all- especially in therapy, so why would I turn a blind eye to this? I think it is so I do not lose the connection, and rather than push for the honesty at the sake of destroying our relationship, I am not facing it and choosing to change the relationship to one that is suitable to being human- people lie, people make mistakes....
Do I have a right to kow who she is? Confidentially? Hmm... I may contact you privately if you don't mnd- to explore this further. I do sense that because of this- the breach in the relationship is causing me to quit therapy. Another part of me is saying- maybe it is time. Financially it is tough too.
Lots to think about- thank you.
You have given me so much to think about. I never saw it in this light. You may very well be exactly right. And my answer being- distance myself emotionally, but not cutting him off completely. Cutting him off completely would be too painful. There is a part of me that wants the truth, then there is the child part that just wants to hold him in the pedestal light and not see the flaws- the truth of who he is.
I value honesty and being real above all- especially in therapy, so why would I turn a blind eye to this? I think it is so I do not lose the connection, and rather than push for the honesty at the sake of destroying our relationship, I am not facing it and choosing to change the relationship to one that is suitable to being human- people lie, people make mistakes....
Do I have a right to kow who she is? Confidentially? Hmm... I may contact you privately if you don't mnd- to explore this further. I do sense that because of this- the breach in the relationship is causing me to quit therapy. Another part of me is saying- maybe it is time. Financially it is tough too.
Lots to think about- thank you.
BB- is this what you are saying too?
You know- he says he thinks our relationship can handle anything- I have to think more about this, but maybe I will send him a txt with a similar message that I just posted to you Jones. What is your opinion on that?
The answer to every one of your questions in paragrah two is no. So I seriously need to look at this.
You say - use my anger- this is where I lose my voice, If i show anger to him- he will get angry at me- and I know I would crumble and be in trauma territory and be totally useless. Fear of losing his love.... father triggers. Even talking about it is .... ok no more.
Please do not think I am excluding anyone on the board- it is just that BB put up the red flag (AG also) but Jones you have really struck a chord- giving me some insights. I won't do anything until I think about this more. Thanks.
The answer to every one of your questions in paragrah two is no. So I seriously need to look at this.
You say - use my anger- this is where I lose my voice, If i show anger to him- he will get angry at me- and I know I would crumble and be in trauma territory and be totally useless. Fear of losing his love.... father triggers. Even talking about it is .... ok no more.
Please do not think I am excluding anyone on the board- it is just that BB put up the red flag (AG also) but Jones you have really struck a chord- giving me some insights. I won't do anything until I think about this more. Thanks.
Yes, Mayo...I was trying to say the same thing Jones said, but I couldn't find the right words for it...and I was afraid to end up hurting you by using the wrong words.
I especially agreed with this:
Actually I agree especially with the whole message. Just want to encourage you to be strong, *through faith* using the grace available to you there, to face your problems with courage and honesty- so that you can speak, and get your needs met- and not end up more hurt. God can give comfort, but to my way of thinking God wants us badly to grow, and will usually stay silent in situations in order to galvanize *us* into action- so that we will learn to teach ourselves and others something monumentally important about having self-respect, and love in relationships...
(((((Mayo)))) huge hugs,
BB
I especially agreed with this:
quote:I get that you are turning to God right now, Mayo, and I am glad you are finding solace there. But I'm worried that you are burying the trauma of this accidental breach of boundaries. I'm worried that by burying it you may lose the opportunity to cleanly, quickly and clearly establish the reality of the situation for both of you and to act accordingly for your own safety. I would be upset to see you give him a 'get out of jail free' card for his deeply problematic error by trading your therapeutic relationship for an unclearly bounded friendship.
Actually I agree especially with the whole message. Just want to encourage you to be strong, *through faith* using the grace available to you there, to face your problems with courage and honesty- so that you can speak, and get your needs met- and not end up more hurt. God can give comfort, but to my way of thinking God wants us badly to grow, and will usually stay silent in situations in order to galvanize *us* into action- so that we will learn to teach ourselves and others something monumentally important about having self-respect, and love in relationships...
(((((Mayo)))) huge hugs,
BB
Mayo, of course, happy to talk more about this privately or here.
Part of what concerns me is that if you don't really face this and get the information you need, then you don't actually have the chance of laying it to rest. If there is an acceptable explanation you can't be reassured by it without hearing it. Nor can you properly be in control of your decisions about what to do if the situation is *not* one that's acceptable to you. And it seems to me that if this huge disruption lies under the surface of your relationship, whatever that relationship is, without you both facing it, then you've really lost the fundamental quality of that relationship anyway, because you will forever be looking the other way on this.
Do you have a right to know who she is? Tough question. My thoughts are that you certainly have a right to ask. You have a right to say how you feel about the information that was introduced into the relationship. You have a right to choose whether to stay in the therapeutic relationship according to how you feel about the information that he gives you. In other words, you have a right to have boundaries about this, to have feelings about it and to make the choices that feel right to you, with eyes open. If I were in your position, I would be willing to accept an undetailed answer if it I were sure it felt direct and genuine (e.g. "I have not violated my marriage"). But your boundary must be what feels ok for you.
I can understand your being afraid to face his anger. You've seen it before, and you shouldn't have had to. I know it is scary territory - I'd feel scared too. But I want to remind you that you survived that. You got through it. You talked it out. He accepted responsibility and apologised. You shouldn't have to face him being angry again, but I believe if you did, you would survive that too, even if you went into trauma mode for a while. Perhaps it would be easier knowing you chose to face this, and that you are within your rights to ask and feel angry or whatever you feel. Perhaps you could even think of the earlier incident as a sort of training ground for this - for going into the heat of conflict, surviving, repairing.
You asked about sending a text like your previous message - I'm really not sure that a text is going to satisfy your needs here - too much can be lost, dodged, misinterpreted, skipped over. I know all those trauma responses in you are telling you to move AWAY from the conflict however you can - even by giving up on the relationship. But I think clarity and the truth in this relationship is worth fighting for.
I know my suggestions would require a lot from you if you were to take them up, Mayo. I only see you from a great distance, and you have to do what you can be at peace with. For what it's worth, I believe in you, in your strength and courage - I see it a lot.
J
Part of what concerns me is that if you don't really face this and get the information you need, then you don't actually have the chance of laying it to rest. If there is an acceptable explanation you can't be reassured by it without hearing it. Nor can you properly be in control of your decisions about what to do if the situation is *not* one that's acceptable to you. And it seems to me that if this huge disruption lies under the surface of your relationship, whatever that relationship is, without you both facing it, then you've really lost the fundamental quality of that relationship anyway, because you will forever be looking the other way on this.
Do you have a right to know who she is? Tough question. My thoughts are that you certainly have a right to ask. You have a right to say how you feel about the information that was introduced into the relationship. You have a right to choose whether to stay in the therapeutic relationship according to how you feel about the information that he gives you. In other words, you have a right to have boundaries about this, to have feelings about it and to make the choices that feel right to you, with eyes open. If I were in your position, I would be willing to accept an undetailed answer if it I were sure it felt direct and genuine (e.g. "I have not violated my marriage"). But your boundary must be what feels ok for you.
I can understand your being afraid to face his anger. You've seen it before, and you shouldn't have had to. I know it is scary territory - I'd feel scared too. But I want to remind you that you survived that. You got through it. You talked it out. He accepted responsibility and apologised. You shouldn't have to face him being angry again, but I believe if you did, you would survive that too, even if you went into trauma mode for a while. Perhaps it would be easier knowing you chose to face this, and that you are within your rights to ask and feel angry or whatever you feel. Perhaps you could even think of the earlier incident as a sort of training ground for this - for going into the heat of conflict, surviving, repairing.
You asked about sending a text like your previous message - I'm really not sure that a text is going to satisfy your needs here - too much can be lost, dodged, misinterpreted, skipped over. I know all those trauma responses in you are telling you to move AWAY from the conflict however you can - even by giving up on the relationship. But I think clarity and the truth in this relationship is worth fighting for.
I know my suggestions would require a lot from you if you were to take them up, Mayo. I only see you from a great distance, and you have to do what you can be at peace with. For what it's worth, I believe in you, in your strength and courage - I see it a lot.
J